View Full Version : selling price vs age of condo
At what age of condo will the selling price start to fall at higher rate?
if you own a condo that is 15years old. does it make sense to sell it away and buy the condo next block which is 5 year old.
In 10 years time, will the % return be more for the 5year old or 15 year old condo?
Is the gap between the 5year-15year condos be greater or smaller than 15year-25year condo in %?
can I add on one more question? Given the above scenario, does tenure matter?
Generally condos above 20 years old will start to drop in prices but then again different places which boast different amenities and conveniences would still appeal so prices though starting to fall would fall very gradually as opposed to some other places which are in no man's land.
Many factors are in play here though. Another important factor is leasehold vs freehold. Very difficult to give a definite age when condos prices will start to fall at a higher rate.
Also, comparisons of 15 years old condos vs 25 years old would probably not be that stark a difference as compared to a 5 years old condo vs 15 years old property. These are just my opinion and may well be inaccurate during different times (eg. good or down times).
can I add on one more question? Given the above scenario, does tenure matter?Just ask yourself, given a choice of two condos side by side. One is a 15 year old 99 leasehold while the other is a 15 year old freehold. Which would you prefer given all other factors remain constant? The development with a higher demand would naturally command a higher asking price by the natural principles of economics. :o
Imagine 2 freehold property in the same CCR location. One is 15 years old and another is a new launch by some developer. The new launch is priced 80% more than the 15 years old property. Do you think in 10 years time, when one is 25 years old and the other is 10 years old, the margin is still going to be 80% difference?
Do not forget that for many condo, the management will ask for a one time fee every few years to maintain, repair and repaint the whole condo.
Leasehold is a totally difference story.
Imagine 2 freehold property in the same CCR location. One is 15 years old and another is a new launch by some developer. The new launch is priced 80% more than the 15 years old property. Do you think in 10 years time, when one is 25 years old and the other is 10 years old, the margin is still going to be 80% difference?
Do not forget that for many condo, the management will ask for a one time fee every few years to maintain, repair and repaint the whole condo.
Leasehold is a totally difference story.
Maybe I ask another question. Chuan Park, 99 yr, 26 years old. Bullion Park, FH, 18 years old. Why both selling at about the same psf of $800 to $900 psf?
Maybe I ask another question. Chuan Park, 99 yr, 26 years old. Bullion Park, FH, 18 years old. Why both selling at about the same psf of $800 to $900 psf?
These are in 2 totally different location and the hypothesis will have to be different. You have to compare 1 FH and 1 leasehold in the same location (close proximity) and check the value drop of the leasehold overtime.
I propose you look at The Trevose (99 years) and the FH apartment/condo around that area. Or mayfair garden with the nearby Casa Esperanza. Or you can notice how some older FH condo has risen more in price over the years as compared to tanglin regency. I remember TR was very expensive when it was initally released.
These are in 2 totally different location and the hypothesis will have to be different. You have to compare 1 FH and 1 leasehold in the same location (close proximity) and check the value drop of the leasehold overtime.
I propose you look at The Trevose (99 years) and the FH apartment/condo around that area. Or mayfair garden with the nearby Casa Esperanza. Or you can notice how some older FH condo has risen more in price over the years as compared to tanglin regency. I remember TR was very expensive when it was initally released.
Precisely, tenure may not be that important nowadays.
Ok, then can compare Orchid Park with Bullion Park? Psf difference only $100psf. Same age, around same locale. Psf difference when new, about $200psf? Why Orchid Park difference never drop by $500psf compared to Bullion?
Precisely, tenure may not be that important nowadays.
Ok, then can compare Orchid Park with Bullion Park? Psf difference only $100psf. Same age, around same locale. Psf difference when new, about $200psf? Why Orchid Park difference never drop by $500psf compared to Bullion?
Those 2 condos are built around the same time (1 year difference) and it is evident that generally the unit from FH Bullion is more expensive than the leasehold Orchid if you look at URA. After many years of market correction, it is decided by market force that the difference is now 200psf?
it does not matter that initally if the bullion is alot more expensive, as the initial price is set by the developer, but the market will tend to correct itself over time.
Location wise orchid park is very convenient. Bullion can't compare for this. So many factors at play.
Just ask yourself, given a choice of two condos side by side. One is a 15 year old 99 leasehold while the other is a 15 year old freehold. Which would you prefer given all other factors remain constant? The development with a higher demand would naturally command a higher asking price by the natural principles of economics. :o
btw 10 years old LH vs 15 years old FH standing side by side, which should be more ex?? Or should be same price?
btw 10 years old LH vs 15 years old FH standing side by side, which should be more ex?? Or should be same price? if same locale, all factors being the same, surely the 15yrs FH. Unfortunately, no development have same factors because they are not sitting on same piece of land, and developer is different, so many things to consider..., since both have already TOP for sometimes, market forces would have dictate their value. So u can easily check their average transaction psf over last 6mths, which give u quite a fair indication of what value market perceive unless there are no transactions in this period.
U are asking hypothetical questions, not sure if any of our answers will be able to satisfy the answers you are looking for.
:2cents:
At what age of condo will the selling price start to fall at higher rate?
if you own a condo that is 15years old. does it make sense to sell it away and buy the condo next block which is 5 year old.
In 10 years time, will the % return be more for the 5year old or 15 year old condo?
Is the gap between the 5year-15year condos be greater or smaller than 15year-25year condo in %?
I think the weather the LH property can hold its value when it gets old will also depends on the potential rental yield of the property in that area.
There are too many factors to consider. Some areas will see new LH selling at same price as old FH while other areas will see both old LH and FH selling at same price. Cannot just compare between the two because it will fail at some point. More importantly what are the factors to be considered.
1. rental yield
2. accessibility
3. amenities
4. age
5. LH vs FH
6. neighboring property prices
Please feel free to add on.
if same locale, all factors being the same, surely the 15yrs FH. Unfortunately, no development have same factors because they are not sitting on same piece of land, and developer is different, so many things to consider..., since both have already TOP for sometimes, market forces would have dictate their value. So u can easily check their average transaction psf over last 6mths, which give u quite a fair indication of what value market perceive unless there are no transactions in this period.
U are asking hypothetical questions, not sure if any of our answers will be able to satisfy the answers you are looking for.
:2cents:
Hee hee.. It is a valid question esp for someone like me who is still seaching for a condo and thinking whether to pay a premium to get a new FH or just whack a new LH at cheaper price within same district. My criteria is new, within 700m from MRT. So now my question is FH or LH, still undecided, different people different view. Some say not important and not worth paying premium, while some say important. If evetually decided on FH, will siam all LH and wait for FH to appear.. Anyone heard of centra loft?
dont forget inflation too....for eg my friend bought a 3 room unit at 600K, after 12 years...now valuation at 900K...lose in value ??
I agree. Can add market cycle too...when up-cycle, LH discount gets compressed, when down-cycle, LH discount can stretch.
But all in, FH land doesn't depreciate so can hold with confidence.
LH more for pple who want to rent, don't bother abt tenure, or just like the location/development. Add also no family to pass down the property.
There are too many factors to consider. Some areas will see new LH selling at same price as old FH while other areas will see both old LH and FH selling at same price. Cannot just compare between the two because it will fail at some point. More importantly what are the factors to be considered.
1. rental yield
2. accessibility
3. amenities
4. age
5. LH vs FH
6. neighboring property prices
Please feel free to add on.
Location wise orchid park is very convenient. Bullion can't compare for this. So many factors at play.
Bullion Park affected by NS Expressway
Hee hee.. It is a valid question esp for someone like me who is still seaching for a condo and thinking whether to pay a premium to get a new FH or just whack a new LH at cheaper price within same district. My criteria is new, within 700m from MRT. So now my question is FH or LH, still undecided, different people different view. Some say not important and not worth paying premium, while some say important. If evetually decided on FH, will siam all LH and wait for FH to appear.. Anyone heard of centra loft? For me, either FH or 999LH, only consider 99LH if near MRT.
Centra Loft, that's end of Geylang, FH...near Paya Lebar.
I think the weather the LH property can hold its value when it gets old will also depends on the potential rental yield of the property in that area.
Agree. Any well located 99LH that has good rental yield will have good demand. Good demand = better prices. Tenants are not bothered by tenure, only location and convenience.
Agree. Any well located 99LH that has good rental yield will have good demand. Good demand = better prices. Tenants are not bothered by tenure, only location and convenience.
Northvale, extremely close to choa chu kang MRT and bus interchange and LOT 1 shopping center. Recent transaction of average 600-700 psf really nothing to shout about. Same for the warren which is a newer condo transacting at 700+psf. Considering such location, does it not deserve higher price especially one can consider it to be the gem location of OCR?
Northvale, extremely close to choa chu kang MRT and bus interchange and LOT 1 shopping center. Recent transaction of average 600-700 psf really nothing to shout about. Same for the warren which is a newer condo transacting at 700+psf. Considering such location, does it not deserve higher price especially one can consider it to be the gem location of OCR?
What was the launch price of Northvale? Has the value gone up or gone down? Go find out.
Hee hee.. It is a valid question esp for someone like me who is still seaching for a condo and thinking whether to pay a premium to get a new FH or just whack a new LH at cheaper price within same district. My criteria is new, within 700m from MRT. So now my question is FH or LH, still undecided, different people different view. Some say not important and not worth paying premium, while some say important. If evetually decided on FH, will siam all LH and wait for FH to appear.. Anyone heard of centra loft?
Depends on whether you are buying for own stay or to rent out, and whether you want to transfer over to your children.
For own stay, definitely FH or 999 LH.
I would not buy 99 LH at all. It's worse than buying HDB. At least the government will not kick you out of the HDB apt after 99 years. For private, don't depend on en bloc. Many years from now when land becomes more scarce, I predict we'll start to see people being kicked out when their 99-year lease expires. Besides, when you have <50 years' lease left, it's going to be hard to sell or re-finance.
If you are buying to rent out and don't care whether your children have a house to inherit, then 99 LH makes sense if it is significantly cheaper than FH. Because you'll be dead before 99 years is up.
As for Centra loft or any condo near red-light district, if you've not been to the area lately, go walk around. It's no where near being cleaned up. Banks also do not finance certain developments. Do check with the bank before placing a deposit with the developer/owner.
My guess is that our good government will allow owner to extend tenture especially for those OCR LH condo who are owned by mostly singaporean.
if you are kicked out, who are you going to vote?
Our good government allows the bank to kick you out of your private house if you fail to pay. Our good government also allows the developer to make money from buyers. Legislation here tends to favour companies and organisations over the consumer. (The well-being of companies is the root of a healthy economy)
When people buy 99 lease hold property, all they own the lease, not the house. Buyers cannot cry foul because it's clear from the start that it's only a lease.
Regulators
15-07-11, 23:56
the law on leaseholds may change and the govt may allow lease top ups when owners in a condo collectively agree to it. When HDB flats get too old, the govt could just top up the lease instead of tearing down the building which is unenvironmental. many years down the road, there will be loads of 99 year condos that are old (including those in the prime districts) so do you think every one will be torn down and en blocked? Our country is only 45 years old and has not even reached the full life of a leasehold property so i won't rule out the possibility of govt topping up leases when the time comes.
Our good government allows the bank to kick you out of your private house if you fail to pay. Our good government also allows the developer to make money from buyers. Legislation here tends to favour companies and organisations over the consumer. (The well-being of companies is the root of a healthy economy)
When people buy 99 lease hold property, all they own the lease, not the house. Buyers cannot cry foul because it's clear from the start that it's only a lease.
Who will be governing Singapore in the future? Generation Z. Will they care about the elderly (i.e. us - 50 years down the road)
Anything could happen. We can only guess. :beats-me-man: I wouldn't count on the government.
Our good government allows the bank to kick you out of your private house if you fail to pay. Our good government also allows the developer to make money from buyers. Legislation here tends to favour companies and organisations over the consumer. (The well-being of companies is the root of a healthy economy)
When people buy 99 lease hold property, all they own the lease, not the house. Buyers cannot cry foul because it's clear from the start that it's only a lease.Nothing amiss if our govt allow the developers to make money from buyers. Its the developer's right to make money because they are a profit based company. :D
the law on leaseholds may change and the govt may allow lease top ups when owners in a condo collectively agree to it. When HDB flats get too old, the govt could just top up the lease instead of tearing down the building which is unenvironmental. many years down the road, there will be loads of 99 year condos that are old (including those in the prime districts) so do you think every one will be torn down and en blocked? Our country is only 45 years old and has not even reached the full life of a leasehold property so i won't rule out the possibility of govt topping up leases when the time comes.
Recently there was a try by a condo, and was turned down by the GOvt for the lease top up. This condo SP are the rich.
But majority of the 99LH SP are not rich to top up the lease. Also the buildings are too old then.
Not sure if garment will react this way. They may want to rejuvnate the area and prefer to let the lease expire as land will be so expensive in the future.
My guess is that our good government will allow owner to extend tenture especially for those OCR LH condo who are owned by mostly singaporean.
if you are kicked out, who are you going to vote?
99 years is a very long time. Many things can happen to the property market during that time. Nothing is certain and nothing lasts forever. So why pay a premium when you don't even know what is going to happen next year?
It depends on what are the reason(s) for buying a LH999/FH as compared to LH99 besides just for own stay.
99 years is a very long time. Many things can happen to the property market during that time. Nothing is certain and nothing lasts forever. So why pay a premium when you don't even know what is going to happen next year?
So, Trevose (99) vs Equatorial (FH)?
Both are near to upcoming Stevens MRT. Trevose is in a quieter location... but you can still see the premium that Equatorial commands...
Also, i like Amaryllis Ville on Newton Rd. Proximity to United Sq, MRTs, Newton Hawker and schools are way more plus than the 99LH drawback if you compared to equivalent NewtonOne of Res@Evelyn. Price gap is like $500psf
It depends on what are the reason(s) for buying a LH999/FH as compared to LH99 besides just for own stay.For rental, always choose the one with the highest rental yield along with the highest potential for price appreciation. :rolleyes:
Regulators
16-07-11, 16:08
Ya I am aware of that condo. Have to prove that building is in good health and fits into the town's overall plan to get approval, so not easy I admit. That being said, if majority of 99yr leasehold condos in singapore one days becomes 40-50 years, I do not think the govt will still be so hard-nosed about it and they may exercise flexibility. Our govt i believe will pass new laws to adapt to changing times. En blocking may not be the solution for all condos due to limitation in plot ratio and the govt has to look at this on a case to case basis.
Recently there was a try by a condo, and was turned down by the GOvt for the lease top up. This condo SP are the rich.
But majority of the 99LH SP are not rich to top up the lease. Also the buildings are too old then.
Enbloc may not be the way forward if government is going for sustainability. The amount of embodied energy that is used in the construction of the new building is a lot and it should last for more than 50years. They may deter enbloc in future.
Ya I am aware of that condo. Have to prove that building is in good health and fits into the town's overall plan to get approval, so not easy I admit. That being said, if majority of 99yr leasehold condos in singapore one days becomes 40-50 years, I do not think the govt will still be so hard-nosed about it and they may exercise flexibility. Our govt i believe will pass new laws to adapt to changing times. En blocking may not be the solution for all condos due to limitation in plot ratio and the govt has to look at this on a case to case basis.
So, Trevose (99) vs Equatorial (FH)?
Both are near to upcoming Stevens MRT. Trevose is in a quieter location... but you can still see the premium that Equatorial commands...
Also, i like Amaryllis Ville on Newton Rd. Proximity to United Sq, MRTs, Newton Hawker and schools are way more plus than the 99LH drawback if you compared to equivalent NewtonOne of Res@Evelyn. Price gap is like $500psf
The price gap is going to get wider as Amaryllis Ville ages. It's ok if you're going to die in it and if there's no one to pass it onto....:(
The price gap is going to get wider as Amaryllis Ville ages. It's ok if you're going to die in it and if there's no one to pass it onto....:(
So far, is there any real example of widening gap between similar age FH & LH condos, like when new was $200psf and now $800psf gap or something? I compare Avon Park(FH) and Chuan Park (99 yr). Chuan Park about 6 years older, but psf about the same as Avon. Both next to MRT, one MRT stop to Nex, near International schools and enbloc potential. Any reason why their selling psf are the same?
So far, is there any real example of widening gap between similar age FH & LH condos, like when new was $200psf and now $800psf gap or something? I compare Avon Park(FH) and Chuan Park (99 yr). Chuan Park about 6 years older, but psf about the same as Avon. Both next to MRT, one MRT stop to Nex, near International schools and enbloc potential. Any reason why their selling psf are the same?
try Horizon towers (completed 84) and Leonie Towers (completed 75). 1100sqft vs 1700sqft. Clear enough? :)
try Horizon towers (completed 84) and Leonie Towers (completed 75). 1100sqft vs 1700sqft. Clear enough? :)
Leonie tat one not representative, probably penthouse. The gap more like $300psf.
Leonie tat one not representative, probably penthouse. The gap more like $300psf.
don't know....:beats-me-man:
I miss street sine...
Also can compare with yong ann park... but chart on prop guru looks even more weird.... from 1200+ to $1800/sqft
don't know....:beats-me-man:
I miss street sine...
Also can compare with yong ann park... but chart on prop guru looks even more weird.... from 1200+ to $1800/sqft
Ya, me too. URA should make data more transparent. After all, individual unit's caveat are already available but must pay for it. Buyers can then make better informed choices which will help stabilize the market. Dubai had no market info whatsoever. That's why the property market there in boom times was extremely erratic.
The trevose(built in 2001) vs Trevose park(built in 1991)
there are some websites that can provide clear transparent caveats, although maybe delayed a month..:)
there are some websites that can provide clear transparent caveats, although maybe delayed a month..:)
where? tell tell tell:) ....
This should be the most accurate http://www.ura.gov.sg/real_estate/main.jsp
This should be the most accurate http://www.ura.gov.sg/real_estate/main.jsp
It's accurate, but doesn't give unit numbers. How to compared without knowing level, orientation?:beats-me-man:
I also use http://www.propertyvizion.com/ . Unit number is displayed to registered members.
I also use http://www.propertyvizion.com/ . Unit number is displayed to registered members.
Thanks for the tip.:)
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.