View Full Version : It's all about the where
http://www.todayonline.com/Business/Property/EDC110708-0000112/Its-all-about-the-where
It's all about the where
Many buyers are prepared to pay a premium for developments in good locations, so shouldn't the HDB take that into account when pricing flats, asks Colin Tan
by Colin Tan
12:00 PM Jul 08, 2011
If there was to be just one lesson one could take away from the recent fiasco over the Design, Build and Sell Scheme (DBSS) project in Tampines launched last month, it has to be that property is essentially all about location - not tenure, not designs and definitely not fittings.
The project which demonstrated this fact most vividly is Centrale 8, a proposed development located in an attractive - some say prime - location at the edge of Tampines town centre, a mature estate.
At its project launch in the middle of June, the developer announced indicative prices for its apartments which included an S$880,000 price tag for its priciest five-room flats - a record for what are essentially public housing flats, governed by HDB rules and regulations except that they come with supposedly superior designs and better fixtures and fittings.
The unbelievably high prices created a huge public outcry since these apartments are meant to be public housing flats leading some to question whether these flats are indeed subsidised and if so, where and how much is the subsidy.
The torrent of negative publicity which followed forced the developer to later slash the top price of those flats to S$778,000. Subsequently, the Ministry of National Development announced that the scheme would be reviewed.
Although the project was eventually oversubscribed by two times when applications closed, there were many calls for the scheme to be scrapped.
What this unhappy episode and the success of other past DBSS projects have shown that no textbook can illustrate more clearly is that property is all about location, location, location - the first thing all real estate students learn.
It appears that many applicants or buyers are prepared to pay or have paid significantly higher premiums for DBSS projects, many of which have been located in central locations or in mature estates.
Indirectly, it quantifies in dramatic terms, the kind of returns that may be awaiting successful applicants of all new BTO flats in mature estates or in central locations and explains why they are always many times oversubscribed.
In media interviews in the days following the outcry, applicants as well apartment owners of other DBSS projects admitted as such that it is was the projects' attractive location which clinched it for them. It was not the superior designs or quality as some complained of the shoddy workmanship and defects they discovered when they received their keys.
A question of perception
Many buyers believe and continue to believe that they will enjoy higher capital gains than normal BTO flats when they re-sell a DBSS flat after the minimum five-year occupation period.
Alas, what many do not realise is that because developers were allowed flexibility in their pricing, most of these potential capital appreciation gains have already been creamed off upfront by the developer. If they experience any capital gains, much of it will be due mainly to the timing of their sale at that particular stage of the property cycle. If the property cycle has not advanced by much since their purchase or may even be correcting, their potential gains may be small or may even turn into a loss.
These gains remain intact for normal BTO launches in similar locations. This is because the developer - in this case, HDB - does not actively seek the highest price that the market is able to bear.
In view of the ability of private developers to cream future potential capital gains from buyers upfront, should the scheme be allowed to continue?
After all, it is widely recognised by most economists that the provision of a public good - in this case, public housing - is never ever best handled by the private sector. If participation is allowed, there should be some form of control. The greater the room for exploitation under the scheme, the more the controls in place, there should be.
The main objective of the scheme should be reviewed. If it was meant to give buyers wider housing choices, than the site selection is crucial. It should be in a less prime location but not too unattractive as to deter private sector participation. This will automatically rule out DBSS projects in all mature estates or in locations close to the city centre.
This means all BTO flats in mature estates would be best handled by the HDB which brings me to my next point.
A possible mispricing?
If all BTO flats are priced using the same yardstick, should not they all be faced with more or less the same subscription rate? So why do projects in mature estates draw double or even triple the subscription rates of those in new estates? Does it not suggest that prices of flats in mature estates are under-priced while those in new estates are over-priced?
The HDB could do more in narrowing this differential because it gives successful applicants for flats in mature estates an unfair advantage in terms of future potential capital gains.
Efforts to narrow the differences need not be in terms of prices. It can come in the form of shorter minimum occupation periods in new towns and/or longer periods for mature estates, better fixtures and fittings, larger private enclosed spaces such as bigger balconies and yard space for flats in new towns - all of which do not have to cost much more.
The writer is head of research and consultancy at Chesterton Suntec International.
If you buy a resale flat at the mature estate and re-renovate the whole unit to your liking, will it cause that much as the new DBSS?:confused:
If you buy a resale flat at the mature estate and re-renovate the whole unit to your liking, will it cause that much as the new DBSS?:confused:
no it can cause much more than new DBSS, if you install solid gold fittings.
Anyway, despite how much you renovate, renovation cannot change location.
devilplate
11-07-11, 10:00
no it can cause much more than new DBSS, if you install solid gold fittings.
Anyway, despite how much you renovate, renovation cannot change location.
cant change the estate, facade of ur building ....reno ur own unit till like brand new...but outside still look rundown n dated....
Wah, then have to change properties every 5-10 years? :doh:
Property owners have to keep flipping then? Luckily many people don't have such mentality otherwise who going to buy those >10 years condos and HDB flats? :p
As to your comments on outside look rundown & dated once the estate is old, you have not seen those 5 years old ones that look like >15 years old and 10+ years old ones that looks like 2-3 years old. It is all in the maintenance & upkeeping. Some buildings facades' looks are built to last and endure time without appearing old while some are just fades that look only nice when newly TOP. Without proper maintenance & upkeeping, give you a gold studded brand new palace will also look like begger dorm after 3 years! :cheers1:
cant change the estate, facade of ur building ....reno ur own unit till like brand new...but outside still look rundown n dated....
devilplate
11-07-11, 11:46
Wah, then have to change properties every 5-10 years? :doh:
Property owners have to keep flipping then? Luckily many people don't have such mentality otherwise who going to buy those >10 years condos and HDB flats? :p
As to your comments on outside look rundown & dated once the estate is old, you have not seen those 5 years old ones that look like >15 years old and 10+ years old ones that looks like 2-3 years old. It is all in the maintenance & upkeeping. Some buildings facades' looks are built to last and endure time without appearing old while some are just fades that look only nice when newly TOP. Without proper maintenance & upkeeping, give you a gold studded brand new palace will also look like begger dorm after 3 years! :cheers1:
despite new launches calling a premium over resale, majority still flock to new launches....
so u goto study the general buyer behaviour and be open to it...not just living in ur own world n perception....
http://www.todayonline.com/Business/Property/EDC110708-0000112/Its-all-about-the-where
It's all about the where
Many buyers are prepared to pay a premium for developments in good locations, so shouldn't the HDB take that into account when pricing flats, asks Colin Tan
by Colin Tan
12:00 PM Jul 08, 2011
If there was to be just one lesson one could take away from the recent fiasco over the Design, Build and Sell Scheme (DBSS) project in Tampines launched last month, it has to be that property is essentially all about location - not tenure, not designs and definitely not fittings.
The project which demonstrated this fact most vividly is Centrale 8, a proposed development located in an attractive - some say prime - location at the edge of Tampines town centre, a mature estate.
At its project launch in the middle of June, the developer announced indicative prices for its apartments which included an S$880,000 price tag for its priciest five-room flats - a record for what are essentially public housing flats, governed by HDB rules and regulations except that they come with supposedly superior designs and better fixtures and fittings.
The unbelievably high prices created a huge public outcry since these apartments are meant to be public housing flats leading some to question whether these flats are indeed subsidised and if so, where and how much is the subsidy.
The torrent of negative publicity which followed forced the developer to later slash the top price of those flats to S$778,000. Subsequently, the Ministry of National Development announced that the scheme would be reviewed.
Although the project was eventually oversubscribed by two times when applications closed, there were many calls for the scheme to be scrapped.
What this unhappy episode and the success of other past DBSS projects have shown that no textbook can illustrate more clearly is that property is all about location, location, location - the first thing all real estate students learn.
It appears that many applicants or buyers are prepared to pay or have paid significantly higher premiums for DBSS projects, many of which have been located in central locations or in mature estates.
Indirectly, it quantifies in dramatic terms, the kind of returns that may be awaiting successful applicants of all new BTO flats in mature estates or in central locations and explains why they are always many times oversubscribed.
In media interviews in the days following the outcry, applicants as well apartment owners of other DBSS projects admitted as such that it is was the projects' attractive location which clinched it for them. It was not the superior designs or quality as some complained of the shoddy workmanship and defects they discovered when they received their keys.
A question of perception
Many buyers believe and continue to believe that they will enjoy higher capital gains than normal BTO flats when they re-sell a DBSS flat after the minimum five-year occupation period.
Alas, what many do not realise is that because developers were allowed flexibility in their pricing, most of these potential capital appreciation gains have already been creamed off upfront by the developer. If they experience any capital gains, much of it will be due mainly to the timing of their sale at that particular stage of the property cycle. If the property cycle has not advanced by much since their purchase or may even be correcting, their potential gains may be small or may even turn into a loss.
These gains remain intact for normal BTO launches in similar locations. This is because the developer - in this case, HDB - does not actively seek the highest price that the market is able to bear.
In view of the ability of private developers to cream future potential capital gains from buyers upfront, should the scheme be allowed to continue?
After all, it is widely recognised by most economists that the provision of a public good - in this case, public housing - is never ever best handled by the private sector. If participation is allowed, there should be some form of control. The greater the room for exploitation under the scheme, the more the controls in place, there should be.
The main objective of the scheme should be reviewed. If it was meant to give buyers wider housing choices, than the site selection is crucial. It should be in a less prime location but not too unattractive as to deter private sector participation. This will automatically rule out DBSS projects in all mature estates or in locations close to the city centre.
This means all BTO flats in mature estates would be best handled by the HDB which brings me to my next point.
A possible mispricing?
If all BTO flats are priced using the same yardstick, should not they all be faced with more or less the same subscription rate? So why do projects in mature estates draw double or even triple the subscription rates of those in new estates? Does it not suggest that prices of flats in mature estates are under-priced while those in new estates are over-priced?
The HDB could do more in narrowing this differential because it gives successful applicants for flats in mature estates an unfair advantage in terms of future potential capital gains.
Efforts to narrow the differences need not be in terms of prices. It can come in the form of shorter minimum occupation periods in new towns and/or longer periods for mature estates, better fixtures and fittings, larger private enclosed spaces such as bigger balconies and yard space for flats in new towns - all of which do not have to cost much more.
The writer is head of research and consultancy at Chesterton Suntec International.
Tampines, you call good location, OMG. IMHO, anywhere nearer to CBD. Talk about DBSS - CityView at Boon Keng (3 minutes to Boon Keng MRT) is at a far better location, a 40 storey tower - can see CBD , flyer. Sport Hub and the most expensive unit at 40 th floor is only $720,000 still far cheaper and better.
Tampines, you call good location, OMG. IMHO, anywhere nearer to CBD. Talk about DBSS - CityView at Boon Keng (3 minutes to Boon Keng MRT) is at a far better location, a 40 storey tower - can see CBD , flyer. Sport Hub and the most expensive unit at 40 th floor is only $720,000 still far cheaper and better.
correction:- the most expensive unit at 40th floor WAS only $720,000. You might as well say the most expensive unit at Pinnacle is how much?
but the fact that it is oversubscribed means that there is more demand than supply:- meaning it is underpriced....:banghead:
linchong84
11-07-11, 21:35
Ya.. might as well say long time ago bungalows cost 100k... And long time ago kopi is 20 cent only.. how can compare property prices that are more than 3 years apart..
I know very well. That is why I am asking the govt to make new launch to be subjected to same 40% downpayment and 4years 16% SSD should start from taking physical possession of the properties for both new launch & resale, after that then we see whether there will still be so many flocking to the new launches? We will also know whether these are real demand or flippers who like to flip new properties? (Investors want immediate rental income so doesn't make sense to buy new launch right? Owner-occupiers got so many want to pay sky high premium of 25-50% more than resale next door just for buying new?? It is not like they are super rich then buy Orchard Residences at >$5k psf won't blink eyes type. So rich die die must buy low absolute priced properties? ) :p
despite new launches calling a premium over resale, majority still flock to new launches....
so u goto study the general buyer behaviour and be open to it...not just living in ur own world n perception....
I know very well. That is why I am asking the govt to make new launch to be subjected to same 40% downpayment and 4years 16% SSD should start from taking physical possession of the properties for both new launch & resale, after that then we see whether there will still be so many flocking to the new launches? We will also know whether these are real demand or flippers who like to flip new properties? (Investors want immediate rental income so doesn't make sense to buy new launch right? Owner-occupiers got so many want to pay sky high premium of 25-50% more than resale next door just for buying new?? It is not like they are super rich then buy Orchard Residences at >$5k psf won't blink eyes type. So rich die die must buy low absolute priced properties? ) :pSlightly agree... I feel new launches and resale buyers should be subjected to different set of rulings but this can really go on and on because there is really no absolute fair play in the housing market.
What I suggested are not different rulings! They are actually to make them become the same because after that:
1) both group of buyers would then have to come out with 40% cash immediately!
2) both group of buyers would then be subjected to 4years 16% SSD after taking physical possession of the properties!
What I suggested is to make the playing field fair for resale & to discourage flippers (defined as those who property with ZERO intention to take over physical possession of the properties)!
Slightly agree... I feel new launches and resale buyers should be subjected to different set of rulings but this can really go on and on because there is really no absolute fair play in the housing market.
devilplate
12-07-11, 09:33
What I suggested are not different rulings! They are actually to make them become the same because after that:
1) both group of buyers would then have to come out with 40% cash immediately!
2) both group of buyers would then be subjected to 4years 16% SSD after taking physical possession of the properties!
What I suggested is to make the playing field fair for resale & to discourage flippers (defined as those who property with ZERO intention to take over physical possession of the properties)!
U r the best! Developer surely swat flies and goto reduce px and den resale px will drop too! Achieve wat those who want to buy cheap cheap!
Can also apply it to hdb! 5yrs mop+4yrs ssd! Surely cool the hdb market as well:D :D :D
linchong84
12-07-11, 10:05
What I suggested are not different rulings! They are actually to make them become the same because after that:
1) both group of buyers would then have to come out with 40% cash immediately!
2) both group of buyers would then be subjected to 4years 16% SSD after taking physical possession of the properties!
What I suggested is to make the playing field fair for resale & to discourage flippers (defined as those who property with ZERO intention to take over physical possession of the properties)!
Just because you holding resale properties and not buying new launch, then u want govt to implement crazy penalities on new launch to crash the market? Like that what's the difference betw u and that SPH charbo..
New launch subjected to 7-8 years SSD makes it almost equivalent to an EC.. What kind of signal will govt send to the investors?
Just because you holding resale properties and not buying new launch, then u want govt to implement crazy penalities on new launch to crash the market? Like that what's the difference betw u and that SPH charbo..
New launch subjected to 7-8 years SSD makes it almost equivalent to an EC.. What kind of signal will govt send to the investors?Buy resale buy resale buy resale... :D I just got a new launch, how? :scared-4:
linchong84
12-07-11, 13:05
Buy resale buy resale buy resale... :D I just got a new launch, how? :scared-4:
8 year SSD will scare all investors away from singapore.. Developers will also bid low because they know demand will be super low since it become more like semi-private.. Prices will drop drastically, by then u think resale can still hold water? It will sink as well..
Now developers price new launch high high, end up also pull surrounding resale up, so everybody is happy.. It will be stupid to ask govt to crash the market, and worse portray singapore an investment-unfriendly country..
8 year SSD will scare all investors away from singapore.. Developers will also bid low because they know demand will be super low since it become more like semi-private.. Prices will drop drastically, by then u think resale can still hold water? It will sink as well..
Now developers price new launch high high, end up also pull surrounding resale up, so everybody is happy.. It will be stupid to ask govt to crash the market, and worse portray singapore an investment-unfriendly country..Never had any doubt that govt will do something so housingly suicidal as that so still bullish about the market but as from history, bull runs are not forever so always ready for the bear! :D Biggest statement is not to over commit otherwise how u die also don't know! :cheers1:
Firstly, we need to have fair policies for both resale market and new launch market. There are just too much coffee shop talks about why the CM policies seem to favor the new launch market and the implemented policies are definitely fueling that. The inactions after so much talk here may give people the impression that coffee shop talks are the truth! So either they abolish that 4years 16% SSD or they modify it to be equitable for both resale & new launch. If that crashes the market, then too bad because it was a policy implemented by the govt and they have to consider the consequences before implementing anything at their whimp and will that are not fair to both segments, and which give people the impression that while they want to cool the market, they also want to remaining buyers to all buy new launch so that they can sell more land at higher prices (at the expense of resale transactions and transacted prices)! Such unfair policies run against our national pledge about "... to build a democratic society based on justice and equality...". What equality are these policies? :doh:
Just because you holding resale properties and not buying new launch, then u want govt to implement crazy penalities on new launch to crash the market? Like that what's the difference betw u and that SPH charbo..
New launch subjected to 7-8 years SSD makes it almost equivalent to an EC.. What kind of signal will govt send to the investors?
devilplate
12-07-11, 17:14
Firstly, we need to have fair policies for both resale market and new launch market. There are just too much coffee shop talks about why the CM policies seem to favor the new launch market and the implemented policies are definitely fueling that. The inactions after so much talk here may give people the impression that coffee shop talks are the truth! So either they abolish that 4years 16% SSD or they modify it to be equitable for both resale & new launch. If that crashes the market, then too bad because it was a policy implemented by the govt and they have to consider the consequences before implementing anything at their whimp and will that are not fair to both segments, and which give people the impression that while they want to cool the market, they also want to remaining buyers to all buy new launch so that they can sell more land at higher prices (at the expense of resale transactions and transacted prices)! Such unfair policies run against our national pledge about "... to build a democratic society based on justice and equality...". What equality are these policies? :doh:
How to b fair in the first place when developers r allowed to sell off the plans?
Y u so concern abt whether the policies is fair anot? The moment a policy is introduced, its oredi unfair to the current existing ppty owners....rite?
What 8 years are you talking about? 4 years!
Policies have to be fair and equitable, not unduly favoring the new launch, when especially they are saying that such policies are crafted to cool the market but really only cool the resale market only? :banghead:
If prices drop or even crash because of crafting fair policies then too bad since all sink together? At least that is fair policies isn't it? We want fair and equitable policies, not enriching developers and those selling land at the expense of current property owners want to selling their properties (the resale market)! :p
8 year SSD will scare all investors away from singapore.. Developers will also bid low because they know demand will be super low since it become more like semi-private.. Prices will drop drastically, by then u think resale can still hold water? It will sink as well..
Now developers price new launch high high, end up also pull surrounding resale up, so everybody is happy.. It will be stupid to ask govt to crash the market, and worse portray singapore an investment-unfriendly country..
I know very well. That is why I am asking the govt to make new launch to be subjected to same 40% downpayment and 4years 16% SSD should start from taking physical possession of the properties for both new launch & resale, after that then we see whether there will still be so many flocking to the new launches? We will also know whether these are real demand or flippers who like to flip new properties? (Investors want immediate rental income so doesn't make sense to buy new launch right? Owner-occupiers got so many want to pay sky high premium of 25-50% more than resale next door just for buying new?? It is not like they are super rich then buy Orchard Residences at >$5k psf won't blink eyes type. So rich die die must buy low absolute priced properties? ) :p
I think that alot of owner occupiers want to go for new. At least for those that i know, including myself, I would rather pay more to be first owner. it may not make sense to many of you, but it is reali a personal choice. To be the first owner, the feeling is different. It is a place that we want to live in, a place that we want to create history that only belongs to us. Also knowing that everyone in the same development is paying the premium, we are not paying more than our neighbours of simliar units. If buy resale, the feeling is not very nice knowing that we paid more than our nieghbours, moreover it is already "used" aka resale...
devilplate
12-07-11, 17:18
What 8 years are you talking about? 4 years!
Policies have to be fair and equitable, not unduly favoring the new launch, when especially they are saying that such policies are crafted to cool the market but really only cool the resale market only? :banghead:
If prices drop or even crash because of crafting fair policies then too bad since all sink together? At least that is fair policies isn't it? We want fair and equitable policies, not enriching developers and those selling land at the expense of current property owners want to selling their properties (the resale market)! :p
It actually did cool new launches for a while wat....feo give furniture voucher rebates....whahaha
Den few mths later, everything wears off liao....
Btw, ocr resale prices also been climbing after cm4...so wat u tink?
But the resale transactions dropped a lot (%age wise vs new launch). What you think if the transactions continue to drop? :p
It actually did cool new launches for a while wat....feo give furniture voucher rebates....whahaha
Den few mths later, everything wears off liao....
Btw, ocr resale prices also been climbing after cm4...so wat u tink?
devilplate
12-07-11, 17:32
I think that alot of owner occupiers want to go for new. At least for those that i know, including myself, I would rather pay more to be first owner. it may not make sense to many of you, but it is reali a personal choice. To be the first owner, the feeling is different. It is a place that we want to live in, a place that we want to create history that only belongs to us. Also knowing that everyone in the same development is paying the premium, we are not paying more than our neighbours of simliar units. If buy resale, the feeling is not very nice knowing that we paid more than our nieghbours, moreover it is already "used" aka resale...
Yes other den price, there r many intangible benefits to buy new....
devilplate
12-07-11, 17:35
But the resale transactions dropped a lot (%age wise vs new launch). What you think if the transactions continue to drop? :p
Actually wats the actual figures for resale tx b4 n after cm4 for ocr?
Mabe u can help to tabulate n den we can discuss further
Let say there is an increased number of new launches over a certain period of time, naturally shd expect more new sales volume and vice versa?
linchong84
12-07-11, 17:40
What 8 years are you talking about? 4 years!
Policies have to be fair and equitable, not unduly favoring the new launch, when especially they are saying that such policies are crafted to cool the market but really only cool the resale market only? :banghead:
If prices drop or even crash because of crafting fair policies then too bad since all sink together? At least that is fair policies isn't it? We want fair and equitable policies, not enriching developers and those selling land at the expense of current property owners want to selling their properties (the resale market)! :p
So you mean SSD starts only after TOP right? Then flipping will be back which is what govt doesn't want isn't it.. And 4th to 7th year stuck with SSD will make singapore pte properties a joke..
I think no policies can benefit everybody.. It doesn't mean just because govt has to be fair so they should sink everybody.. sinking is not govt's primary, secondary or even tertially intention.. The intention is to curb flipping while ensuring market don't crash..
devilplate
12-07-11, 17:45
So you mean SSD starts only after TOP right? Then flipping will be back which is what govt doesn't want isn't it.. And 4th to 7th year stuck with SSD will make singapore pte properties a joke..
I think no policies can benefit everybody.. It doesn't mean just because govt has to be fair so they should sink everybody.. sinking is not govt's primary, secondary or even tertially intention.. The intention is to curb flipping while ensuring market don't crash..
Can vomit blood toking to teddy
He still tink tat there r flippers in new launches wif 4yrs ssd...:rolleyes:
In the first place, flippers will only buy new launches....they will not consider resale market at all bcoz the full loan kicks in immediately and their only intention is to make money on capital gain and totally not interested in rental....wif this 4yrs ssd, flippers r gone for good
linchong84
12-07-11, 18:01
Can vomit blood toking to teddy
He still tink tat there r flippers in new launches wif 4yrs ssd...:rolleyes:
In the first place, flippers will only buy new launches....they will not consider resale market at all bcoz the full loan kicks in immediately and their only intention is to make money on capital gain and totally not interested in rental....wif this 4yrs ssd, flippers r gone for good
4 years SSD how to flip.. If 3-4 years later then sell, it is not call flipping liao.. Must use the right term.. And govt only intend to curb flipping ..
As for whether new launch or resale is better after cm4, i think it's really neutral.. For new launch, buyers will get to sell at developer's condition and can pay slower.. But resale buyers will also get to earn rental immediatly.. So both have pros and cons.. It's very fair.. Resale should be happy that new launch is pulling up their prices..
4 years SSD how to flip.. If 3-4 years later then sell, it is not call flipping liao.. Must use the right term.. And govt only intend to curb flipping ..
As for whether new launch or resale is better after cm4, i think it's really neutral.. For new launch, buyers will get to sell at developer's condition and can pay slower.. But resale buyers will also get to earn rental immediatly.. So both have pros and cons.. It's very fair.. Resale should be happy that new launch is pulling up their prices..Yes... but according to teddy, govt has 2 definition for flipping so he stuck to his point. However, I also think 4yr SSD killed flippers almost totally unless that one crazy guy can buy today and next 3 months find another buyer willing to pay 20% price appreciation of what he got. Maybe if I buy firesale or something at 10% loss and then 3 months later, sell at further 10% price increase then can... otherwise wait long long long! :D
linchong84
12-07-11, 19:43
Yes... but according to teddy, govt has 2 definition for flipping so he stuck to his point. However, I also think 4yr SSD killed flippers almost totally unless that one crazy guy can buy today and next 3 months find another buyer willing to pay 20% price appreciation of what he got. Maybe if I buy firesale or something at 10% loss and then 3 months later, sell at further 10% price increase then can... otherwise wait long long long! :D
Where got 2 definition one.. When running slows down to a certain speed, it's called jogging, no longer called running.. No such thing as fast run or slow run..
How can sell 3-4 years later be called flipping/speculative buying? All flippers either stopped flipping or exited singapore market and go somewhere else liao..
No investor will be crazy enough to go into property hoping to sell the following year.. It will take a very good economy to achieve a small profit.. And the investor could have thrown his money into a blue chip and definitely earn more in such a market..
After CM4 came, the best thing for an investor to do is to throw money into a resale unit at a good location (beside or near MRT) beside a future new launch.. Sure make, cos the bloody new launch will pull everyone up..
I think that alot of owner occupiers want to go for new. At least for those that i know, including myself, I would rather pay more to be first owner. it may not make sense to many of you, but it is reali a personal choice. To be the first owner, the feeling is different. It is a place that we want to live in, a place that we want to create history that only belongs to us. Also knowing that everyone in the same development is paying the premium, we are not paying more than our neighbours of simliar units. If buy resale, the feeling is not very nice knowing that we paid more than our nieghbours, moreover it is already "used" aka resale...
Me too, I also prefer new unit.:o
I think those people who go for resale ppty are those who are either:-
1) Cash rich, don't mind to pay more in the beginning of the loan
2) Need the house urgently, can't wait till TOP
3) Hope to rent out immediately so that they can use the rental amt to service the loan
4) Like the location, don't mind to pay high price for immediate occupancy. :D
Does anybody know the recent transaction price for the apartment above the Great World City?
If got $ make $ first. Otherwise, if wait for TOP in 2 -3 year time which can be hit by high interest rate and most TOP units selling at the sametime. It will be buyers' opportunity then. I hope this will not come true.
Me too, I also prefer new unit.:o
I think those people who go for resale ppty are those who are either:-
1) Cash rich, don't mind to pay more in the beginning of the loan
2) Need the house urgently, can't wait till TOP
3) Hope to rent out immediately so that they can use the rental amt to service the loan
4) Like the location, don't mind to pay high price for immediate occupancy. :D
Does anybody know the recent transaction price for the apartment above the Great World City?
Regulators
12-07-11, 23:56
All things new would eventually be old. Buildings are built to last for hundreds of years so why forego a condo just because it is 5-10 years old and go for one that is brand new. Just like cars, a 4 year old Audi A6 at $85k will always be a much better drive than brand new Hyundai i30 selling at $103k.
Me too, I also prefer new unit.:o
I think those people who go for resale ppty are those who are either:-
1) Cash rich, don't mind to pay more in the beginning of the loan
2) Need the house urgently, can't wait till TOP
3) Hope to rent out immediately so that they can use the rental amt to service the loan
4) Like the location, don't mind to pay high price for immediate occupancy. :D
Does anybody know the recent transaction price for the apartment above the Great World City?
Where got 2 definition one.. When running slows down to a certain speed, it's called jogging, no longer called running.. No such thing as fast run or slow run..
How can sell 3-4 years later be called flipping/speculative buying? All flippers either stopped flipping or exited singapore market and go somewhere else liao..
No investor will be crazy enough to go into property hoping to sell the following year.. It will take a very good economy to achieve a small profit.. And the investor could have thrown his money into a blue chip and definitely earn more in such a market..
After CM4 came, the best thing for an investor to do is to throw money into a resale unit at a good location (beside or near MRT) beside a future new launch.. Sure make, cos the bloody new launch will pull everyone up..Hahaha... i also think so... running is running, jogging is jogging but some people insist on calling it a slow run! :D
All things new would eventually be old. Buildings are built to last for hundreds of years so why forego a condo just because it is 5-10 years old and go for one that is brand new. Just like cars, a 4 year old Audi A6 at $85k will always be a much better drive than brand new Hyundai i30 selling at $103k.Try getting a vintage 20 year old benz.. the engine cannot make it already... dun think can compare with car coz cars will drop value to zero eventually and if engine spoil laggi worse, good as scrapped (aka enbloc without getting any cash back). Buildings sitting pretty on freehold land sure have value always above zero.. only leasehold got problem... :D But yes, got your point... :o
All things new would eventually be old. Buildings are built to last for hundreds of years so why forego a condo just because it is 5-10 years old and go for one that is brand new. Just like cars, a 4 year old Audi A6 at $85k will always be a much better drive than brand new Hyundai i30 selling at $103k.
Ya, but at least u once own it new.. Esp for ladies. They just don't like 2ndhand stuffs.. Guys usually not so fussy.
linchong84
13-07-11, 19:36
Ya, but at least u once own it new.. Esp for ladies. They just don't like 2ndhand stuffs.. Guys usually not so fussy.
I thought guys usually favour a virgin partner much more than ladies?
Ya, but at least u once own it new.. Esp for ladies. They just don't like 2ndhand stuffs.. Guys usually not so fussy.
for own stay... maybe insist on new, but buy for rental.... why pay premium for new?
for own stay... maybe insist on new, but buy for rental.... why pay premium for new?Best buy resale with existing tenants so save the hassle of looking for new tenants and paying agent fee. :D
Best buy resale with existing tenants so save the hassle of looking for new tenants and paying agent fee. :D
yeah... even come with furniture....:cheers1:
Have to be careful in buying resale HDB flat. The previous owner might have borrowed money from the "loan shark", then the new owner will get into trouble because the "loan shark" only recognise address. :banghead:
Have to be careful in buying resale HDB flat. The previous owner might have borrowed money from the "loan shark", then the new owner will get into trouble because the "loan shark" only recognise address. :banghead:Quite unlikely lah... loan sharks will have difficulty passing the securities and even if they did, there is really very little they can do coz its not public area like HDB. Then again why this guy can afford to stay in condo but need to borrow from loan shark??? :doh:
Quite unlikely lah... loan sharks will have difficulty passing the securities and even if they did, there is really very little they can do coz its not public area like HDB. Then again why this guy can afford to stay in condo but need to borrow from loan shark??? :doh:
Hey, I'm saying HDB resale flat, not pte ppty lah? :cool:
Regulators
14-07-11, 01:07
You outdated liao, these days loan sharks target neighbours hor
Have to be careful in buying resale HDB flat. The previous owner might have borrowed money from the "loan shark", then the new owner will get into trouble because the "loan shark" only recognise address. :banghead:
Hey, I'm saying HDB resale flat, not pte ppty lah? :cool:Sorry... Didn't see you wrote HDB resale but we were actually talking about private property earlier... :o
You outdated liao, these days loan sharks target neighbours hor
No lah. It happened to my mother-in-law's neighbour. A couple just shifted in for < a month and got the door splashed with red paint. Funny thing is, how come the loan shark dare to leave a phone number for the couple to call him? When the couple called the loan shark and said that they are not the borrower, the loan shark told them that they only recognise address and not by faces. So the couple reported this case to the police and the policeman installed a security camera outside the house.
Do you all realise, when we went to the police post to change our new address, the policeman only stick the new address over the old address.
In this case, people can still make use of the old address (by tearing out the new address) to borrow money from the loan shark, isnt' it?:doh:
No lah. It happened to my mother-in-law's neighbour. A couple just shifted in for < a month and got the door splashed with red paint. Funny thing is, how come the loan shark dare to leave a phone number for the couple to call him? When the couple called the loan shark and said that they are not the borrower, the loan shark told them that they only recognise address and not by faces. So the couple reported this case to the police and the policeman installed a security camera outside the house.
Do you all realise, when we went to the police post to change our new address, the policeman only stick the new address over the old address.
In this case, people can still make use of the old address (by tearing out the new address) to borrow money from the loan shark, isnt' it?:doh:Your interesting couple still got the time to call the loan sharks? :doh: Report police immediately liao. Usually police will only reply they will increase patrol in that area but this time they even install a CCTV. Not bad lah... improvement! :spliff:
Regulators
14-07-11, 13:12
Police also can do nothing. Even if you instal cctv, the runner can wear a full face helmet to do his deed, so it is very hard to catch these bastards
No lah. It happened to my mother-in-law's neighbour. A couple just shifted in for < a month and got the door splashed with red paint. Funny thing is, how come the loan shark dare to leave a phone number for the couple to call him? When the couple called the loan shark and said that they are not the borrower, the loan shark told them that they only recognise address and not by faces. So the couple reported this case to the police and the policeman installed a security camera outside the house.
Do you all realise, when we went to the police post to change our new address, the policeman only stick the new address over the old address.
In this case, people can still make use of the old address (by tearing out the new address) to borrow money from the loan shark, isnt' it?:doh:
Police also can do nothing. Even if you instal cctv, the runner can wear a full face helmet to do his deed, so it is very hard to catch these bastardsPolice never say will catch them... they only install to show the couple that they are doing something about it... successful or not is another issue altogether. :D
Regulators
14-07-11, 15:52
Imo the police are quite useless at preventing loan shark harassment. If I am a loan shark, I can go anywhere to splash paint and police can't stop. Reason is simple, police do not have that kind of manpower to patrol every block in singapore 24hr a day. Even if you report loan shark harassment to them, they just take down a report and that is it. They won't even make an effort to try and trace the harassing call, they will just tell you to call singtel and ask them. On a different issue, Last time my car kenna langah behind by a malaysian motorcyclist, 6 years liao and haven't heard shit from them, I even gave police the motorcycle license plate number :doh:
Police never say will catch them... they only install to show the couple that they are doing something about it... successful or not is another issue altogether. :D
Imo the police are quite useless at preventing loan shark harassment. If I am a loan shark, I can go anywhere to splash paint and police can't stop. Reason is simple, police do not have that kind of manpower to patrol every block in singapore 24hr a day. Even if you report loan shark harassment to them, they just take down a report and that is it. They won't even make an effort to try and trace the harassing call, they will just tell you to call singtel and ask them. On a different issue, Last time my car kenna langah behind by a malaysian motorcyclist, 6 years liao and haven't heard shit from them, I even gave police the motorcycle license plate number :doh:Police will only act if they have informants telling them when the loan shark activity will occur and so they go prepared. Otherwise, they will always be 30 mins late... Will never catch these people unless residents and citizens help lor... Remember they always say, 'low crime doesn't mean no crime' because its impossible to have no crime! :D
for own stay... maybe insist on new, but buy for rental.... why pay premium for new?
Own stay = die die must buy new
Rental = resale best with tenants :D but if the resale is making good rental, why would they want to sell? They may as well keep for rental. Unless u are toking abt firesale, if not doesn't make sense right?
Own stay = die die must buy new
Rental = resale best with tenants :D but if the resale is making good rental, why would they want to sell? They may as well keep for rental. Unless u are toking abt firesale, if not doesn't make sense right?
why own stay die die must buy new. With the premium for brand new, can hack out whole unit and redo....:)
Have to look hard hard for resale with tenant lor.... it's out there.... somewhere... people sell for all kinds of reasons....
why own stay die die must buy new. With the premium for brand new, can hack out whole unit and redo....:)
Have to look hard hard for resale with tenant lor.... it's out there.... somewhere... people sell for all kinds of reasons....
No matter how u hack, you cannot change the fact that it is a resale :tsk-tsk:
2nd hand means 2nd hand.. The premium is worth the "brand new" status for a lovenest where u call home. Rental is different. I will prefer resale if I want it for rental, but must work out the sums to make sure rental yield is good before commit though. So perhaps best is to buy resale when property crash hee hee...
Wah, developers sure love you for your trying to help them to sell new launch! :beats-me-man:
However, fact is, nowsadays, quality used for new launch is Generally so lousy that it is better to hack their provided materials down, including the walls & replace with own better quality ones! So resale actually better than new sale! New for what when you get shit? :p
No matter how u hack, you cannot change the fact that it is a resale :tsk-tsk:
2nd hand means 2nd hand.. The premium is worth the "brand new" status for a lovenest where u call home. Rental is different. I will prefer resale if I want it for rental, but must work out the sums to make sure rental yield is good before commit though. So perhaps best is to buy resale when property crash hee hee...
No matter how u hack, you cannot change the fact that it is a resale :tsk-tsk:
2nd hand means 2nd hand.. The premium is worth the "brand new" status for a lovenest where u call home. Rental is different. I will prefer resale if I want it for rental, but must work out the sums to make sure rental yield is good before commit though. So perhaps best is to buy resale when property crash hee hee...Get a cheaper resale and do up everything will still be completely new wat... got that same new feeling. No need to care about the environment coz you don't sleep outside or watch TV outside or do your work outside. And don't say you use the facilities because I seriously don't think anyone uses the condo facilities everyday. For that low usage, you fork out a huge sum? Is it really worth it? Can always make do with slightly older equipments and facilities, :cool: But if can find a cheap new launch, then maybe worth considering! :o
How do you define cheap new launch?
I think new launch is cheap only if they are >10% cheaper than newly TOP ones to compensate for risks such as:
1) I don't get what I see in showroom in in terms of layout, materials etc
2) developers run road, or substitute with Chap-skate quality materials etc when cost of construction increase by a lot (eg like now).
Get a cheaper resale and do up everything will still be completely new wat... got that same new feeling. No need to care about the environment coz you don't sleep outside or watch TV outside or do your work outside. And don't say you use the facilities because I seriously don't think anyone uses the condo facilities everyday. For that low usage, you fork out a huge sum? Is it really worth it? Can always make do with slightly older equipments and facilities, :cool: But if can find a cheap new launch, then maybe worth considering! :o
How do you define cheap new launch?
I think new launch is cheap only if they are >10% cheaper than newly TOP ones to compensate for risks such as:
1) I don't get what I see in showroom in in terms of layout, materials etc
2) developers run road, or substitute with Chap-skate quality materials etc when cost of construction increase by a lot (eg like now).
nice furnitures makeup for any material used in the new launch, and this is not malaysia where developers run road is common.
everyone wanna "NEW" for everything in life, if they could afford for it.. why not?
New nice furnitures you can't buy yourself and have better quality ones? No wonder so many people got "conned" into buying new at 20-50% premium price! :p
New but lousy quality is good? Many people laughing behind until teeth drop lah for paying so much for those lousy new things! :scared-2:
nice furnitures makeup for any material used in the new launch, and this is not malaysia where developers run road is common.
everyone wanna "NEW" for everything in life, if they could afford for it.. why not?
New nice furnitures you can't buy yourself and have better quality ones? No wonder so many people got "conned" into buying new at 20-50% premium price! :p
New but lousy quality is good? Many people laughing behind until teeth drop lah for paying so much for those lousy new things! :scared-2:
with money, we can do magic to a resale or new unit wf nice furnitures.
BUT new condo comes wf nicer modern design, better facilities, landscapping..
resale condo >5-10yrs back design..
New condos design modern? Yes, for now, and then look like a fade and faded away 5-10 years later with all that glasses which are used initially to save construction costs than anything else to do with making the condo more beautiful and ever-lasting look etc.
Old condos some are built to last with ever-green and lasting-looking design. I don't think I will get these ever-green design again with all those cost-saving measures such as all glasses buildings with those glass walls etc. :doh:
No matter how rich you are, you just can't change their glassy fade appearance in future! :rolleyes:
with money, we can do magic to a resale or new unit wf nice furnitures.
BUT new condo comes wf nicer modern design, better facilities, landscapping..
resale condo >5-10yrs back design..
Need to know what are the designs that are timeless and what will go out of fashion.... be decerning.:D
New condos can look crappy after a couple of years.... Some old condos still look good.
But teddy, glass is not cheaper than walls.....
Ai yoh, it is already well know that glass is so much much cheaper than walls!
You don't know? Imagine that thick walls need so much cement and sand vs a thin sheet of glass? :doh:
Need to know what are the designs that are timeless and what will go out of fashion.... be decerning.:D
New condos can look crappy after a couple of years.... Some old condos still look good.
But teddy, glass is not cheaper than walls.....
Oh yes, new condos definitely most don't come with better facilities- it seems their land is not sufficient even to built a tennis court per 150 units!
And many new condos really are built to look like HDBs! Little exclusivity at all with >200 units in the estate & So crowded that don't have enouugh land to built tennis court. Others are built for the like of Mickey Moises & minny Moises to live in! :p
Many of these very glassy so-called "modern" design looks so old & dirty after 2 years! You can see all the dirts on the full height glass walls so easily, reflected off & enhancing the view of those dirts! Anybody will & can maintain the estate to look clean & neat? Which owners & MCs want to & willing to engage professional cleaners to clean outside every 6 months, areas which we can't access & clean ourselves? :doh:
These can't be compared to commercial & office buildings where their owners usually engage professional cleaners with "gondolas" to clean the whole buildings! :beats-me-man:
with money, we can do magic to a resale or new unit wf nice furnitures.
BUT new condo comes wf nicer modern design, better facilities, landscapping..
resale condo >5-10yrs back design..
Which owners & MCs want to & willing to engage professional cleaners to clean outside every 6 months, areas which we can't access & clean ourselves? :doh:
These can't be compared to commercial & office buildings where their owners usually engage professional cleaners with "gondolas" to clean the whole buildings! :beats-me-man:May not be every 6 months but most condos will clean the exterior at least once a year or at most once every two years.
I personally feel that whether the building looks modern or not is immaterial as long as you are comfortable with the surroundings, location and the layout. As time passes by, modern building can be an outdated building also. There are always new design coming out now and then, we are unable to follow every single one.
But frankly speaking, most people still prefer new and nice things if there is a choice, this is very natural. This includes myself, hee hee!:ashamed1:
Anybody watch yesterday (Friday) 8pm Channel 8 show hosted by Bryan "新欢旧爱", the window that he had selected is so unique, it can slide and open to its fullest, so amazing. Is it very common nowadays? I presume it must be expensive?:beats-me-man:
Buy a landed and you can retrofit it whenever you want.
I personally feel that whether the building looks modern or not is immaterial as long as you are comfortable with the surroundings, location and the layout. As time passes by, modern building can be an outdated building also. There are always new design coming out now and then, we are unable to follow every single one.
But frankly speaking, most people still prefer new and nice things if there is a choice, this is very natural. This includes myself, hee hee!:ashamed1:
Anybody watch yesterday (Friday) 8pm Channel 8 show hosted by Bryan "新欢旧爱", the window that he had selected is so unique, it can slide and open to its fullest, so amazing. Is it very common nowadays? I presume it must be expensive?:beats-me-man:
I personally feel that whether the building looks modern or not is immaterial as long as you are comfortable with the surroundings, location and the layout. As time passes by, modern building can be an outdated building also. There are always new design coming out now and then, we are unable to follow every single one.
But frankly speaking, most people still prefer new and nice things if there is a choice, this is very natural. This includes myself, hee hee!:ashamed1:
Anybody watch yesterday (Friday) 8pm Channel 8 show hosted by Bryan "新欢旧爱", the window that he had selected is so unique, it can slide and open to its fullest, so amazing. Is it very common nowadays? I presume it must be expensive?:beats-me-man:I installed it in my HDB flat some years back. It's been in the market for many years already. :D It can really get very very breezy with all panels fully opened. :p
Really? Which one do that? I have not heard of any condo which engage professional cleaners to clean whole building from top storey to bottom! Cleaning of the exterior of windows is the responsibilities of owners. Condos are required by law to repaint once within every 5-7 years (can't rem exact num now). I wonder what the law says about those glass walls? Is it MC or owners responsibilities? By then, all those exterior of glass walls will Be dirty like shit! :doh:
May not be every 6 months but most condos will clean the exterior at least once a year or at most once every two years.
I installed it in my HDB flat some years back. It's been in the market for many years already. :D It can really get very very breezy with all panels fully opened. :p
Oic, just came to know only yesterday when I saw the show. It is a good idea but if without grills, it will be dangerous when there are young children. You mean HDB approved such a window, how about EC and pte condo, need to get approval from the management or not? Can this type of window be installed on the balcony?
So the couple reported this case to the police and the policeman installed a security camera outside the house.
[/quote]
Oops! I got the information wrong, just came back from my in-laws house and checked with my sister-in-law, the CCTV camera is installed by the owners and not the policeman, pie-say lah!:ashamed1:
Really? Which one do that? I have not heard of any condo which engage professional cleaners to clean whole building from top storey to bottom! Cleaning of the exterior of windows is the responsibilities of owners. Condos are required by law to repaint once within every 5-7 years (can't rem exact num now). I wonder what the law says about those glass walls? Is it MC or owners responsibilities? By then, all those exterior of glass walls will Be dirty like shit! :doh:Well at least my previous condo did that but not the extensive washing I think you are referring to. It's more simple washing of carparks, corridors and other common areas. :D
Oops! I got the information wrong, just came back from my in-laws house and checked with my sister-in-law, the CCTV camera is installed by the owners and not the policeman, pie-say lah!:ashamed1:So the police merely said we'll look into the matter and basically did nothing after that, just like what many forumers have expected and predicted. :doh: Still thought the police have improved! :D
Oic, just came to know only yesterday when I saw the show. It is a good idea but if without grills, it will be dangerous when there are young children. You mean HDB approved such a window, how about EC and pte condo, need to get approval from the management or not? Can this type of window be installed on the balcony?I'm not sure if HDB approve it but mine was installed in the balcony which I converted to part of the living room. However, I think private condos will not allow the installation of such windows because it is different from the rest of the units.. and for that matter, any other different types of windows.
hah? Those you mentioned supposed to be done cleaners almost everyday lah. I only know HDB estates used to be like once a week but now done like once a month thing. :doh:
Well at least my previous condo did that but not the extensive washing I think you are referring to. It's more simple washing of carparks, corridors and other common areas. :D
So the police merely said we'll look into the matter and basically did nothing after that, just like what many forumers have expected and predicted. :doh: Still thought the police have improved! :D
Not sure what will the police do after the complain. A bit disappointed as I also thought that the CCTV was installed by the policeman to track the loan shark. :banghead:
Not sure what will the police do after the complain. A bit disappointed as I also thought that the CCTV was installed by the policeman to track the loan shark. :banghead:Loan shark says, 'catch me if you can.'
Police says, 'Huh?'
So the couple reported this case to the police and the policeman installed a security camera outside the house.
Oops! I got the information wrong, just came back from my in-laws house and checked with my sister-in-law, the CCTV camera is installed by the owners and not the policeman, pie-say lah!:ashamed1:[/quote]Can just install own CCTV without HDB approval, meh?
Can just install own CCTV without HDB approval, meh?I think so long as the CCTV is installed on the inside of the door grills and not outside. Those cisco alarms are also installed outside the house... can check with HDB. :D
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