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Business Times - 30 Jun 2011
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Profit margins for DBSS developers 'look high'
Gross profit margins can be up to 76%; five of seven projects have yielded at least 28%
By UMA SHANKARI
(SINGAPORE) Developers can make gross profit margins of up to 76 per cent from the public housing projects they develop under HDB's design, build and sell scheme (DBSS), data compiled by BT shows.
Five out of the seven DBSS projects launched since 2008 earned their developers gross profit margins of at least 28 per cent, BT estimates.
This is comparable to the 30-40 per cent gross profit margins that property groups can earn when they develop private mass-market projects.
But in some cases, DBSS margins were even higher. Sim Lian Group, for example, stands to make a gross profit margin of around 76 per cent from its recently launched Centrale 8 in Tampines - even after it announced prices that were lower than previously indicated.
In absolute terms, Hoi Hup Sunway reaped the highest gross profit for its 1,203-unit The Peak @ Toa Payoh - netting some $257 million in all.
On the other extreme were Sim Lian Group's 360-unit Parc Lumiere in Simei, and Qingdao Construction's 480-unit Natura Loft at Bishan, which earned the developers $45 million and $48 million respectively.
BT added the land cost and the building cost - using a generous construction cost estimate of $200 per square foot per plot ratio (psf ppr) - in order to calculate the total development cost for each project and arrive at the breakeven price. Industry watchers said that the construction cost could be as low as $160 psf ppr in some cases.
But the back-of-the-envelope calculations do not take into account expenses such as finance, marketing and administration.
The estimated total development cost was then matched against total sales revenue. For this, BT first took the average of the lowest and highest prices for each type of unit - three, four, or five-room flats - in a project, then multiplied the average cost of each type of flat by the total number of such flats available in the development.
Some of the projects still have unsold units, industry players said - although the numbers are not significant.
Analysts said that the profit margins look high. But they pointed out that since developers do not need to take 'public interest' in account, they will price the flats as high as possible.
'I am surprised that the margins are so high,' said International Property Advisor chief executive Ku Swee Yong. 'All the more reason for us to re-examine the raison d'etre for DBSS in view of the need for a massive supply of affordable flats to satisfy the past five years of pent-up demand.'
PropNex chief executive Mohamed Ismail Gafoor noted that private developers have a duty to their shareholders to maximise profit margins. 'So, I think the fundamental issue concerns HDB, which actually provides the opportunity for private developers to make this money.'
In particular, not having a check on DBSS flat prices skews the market, he said.
The DBSS scheme was first introduced by the government in 2005 to provide a more upmarket option for buyers as compared to basic build-to-order (BTO) flats, which are sold directly by HDB.
But DBSS flats are also supposed to be a more modest option compared to executive condominium (EC) units, at least in theory, Mr Mohamed Ismail said. This is because eligibility, ownership and resale restrictions for public housing cease to apply for ECs after 10 years - effectively making them private homes.
At Centrale 8 in Tampines, flats were initially priced at up to $750 psf - a price tag more commonly seen for private condominiums and higher than for most EC projects.
This contravenes the government's aim to provide various types of homes - from the most affordable BTO flats, to DBSS flats, then EC units and then finally private homes - for homeseekers with varying levels of financial clout, Mr Mohamed Ismail said.
Analysts have noted that the price gap between DBSS and EC units has narrowed in recent years.
Nicholas Mak, head of research at SLP International, noted that in addition to giving homebuyers more options, the DBSS scheme was also mooted to give private developers a slice of the public housing market (since the property market was in the doldrums six years ago) and also to allow for more innovative building and design for HDB projects.
'The government has to decide whether these objectives are still relevant today,' said Mr Mak.
Copyright © 2010 Singapore Press Holdings Ltd. All rights reserved.
Business Times - 30 Jun 2011
Profit margins for DBSS developers 'look high'
Gross profit margins can be up to 76%; five of seven projects have yielded at least 28%
By UMA SHANKARI
(SINGAPORE) Developers can make gross profit margins of up to 76 per cent from the public housing projects they develop under HDB's design, build and sell scheme (DBSS), data compiled by BT shows.
Five out of the seven DBSS projects launched since 2008 earned their developers gross profit margins of at least 28 per cent, BT estimates.
This is comparable to the 30-40 per cent gross profit margins that property groups can earn when they develop private mass-market projects.
But in some cases, DBSS margins were even higher. Sim Lian Group, for example, stands to make a gross profit margin of around 76 per cent from its recently launched Centrale 8 in Tampines - even after it announced prices that were lower than previously indicated.
In absolute terms, Hoi Hup Sunway reaped the highest gross profit for its 1,203-unit The Peak @ (http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/RealEdge/post?postID=f-1gZjVo2zD7G6Pts9FCmx0H9gEjO810jKaP2JtgvRaIfCTT8Eer96PW) Toa Payoh - netting some $257 million in all.
On the other extreme were Sim Lian Group's 360-unit Parc Lumiere in Simei, and Qingdao Construction's 480-unit Natura Loft at Bishan, which earned the developers $45 million and $48 million respectively.
BT added the land cost and the building cost - using a generous construction cost estimate of $200 per square foot per plot ratio (psf ppr) - in order to calculate the total development cost for each project and arrive at the breakeven price. Industry watchers said that the construction cost could be as low as $160 psf ppr in some cases.
But the back-of-the-envelope calculations do not take into account expenses such as finance, marketing and administration.
The estimated total development cost was then matched against total sales revenue. For this, BT first took the average of the lowest and highest prices for each type of unit - three, four, or five-room flats - in a project, then multiplied the average cost of each type of flat by the total number of such flats available in the development.
Some of the projects still have unsold units, industry players said - although the numbers are not significant.
Analysts said that the profit margins look high. But they pointed out that since developers do not need to take 'public interest' in account, they will price the flats as high as possible.
'I am surprised that the margins are so high,' said International Property Advisor chief executive Ku Swee Yong. 'All the more reason for us to re-examine the raison d'etre for DBSS in view of the need for a massive supply of affordable flats to satisfy the past five years of pent-up demand.'
PropNex chief executive Mohamed Ismail Gafoor noted that private developers have a duty to their shareholders to maximise profit margins. 'So, I think the fundamental issue concerns HDB, which actually provides the opportunity for private developers to make this money.'
In particular, not having a check on DBSS flat prices skews the market, he said.
The DBSS scheme was first introduced by the government in 2005 to provide a more upmarket option for buyers as compared to basic build-to-order (BTO) flats, which are sold directly by HDB.
But DBSS flats are also supposed to be a more modest option compared to executive condominium (EC) units, at least in theory, Mr Mohamed Ismail said. This is because eligibility, ownership and resale restrictions for public housing cease to apply for ECs after 10 years - effectively making them private homes.
At Centrale 8 in Tampines, flats were initially priced at up to $750 psf - a price tag more commonly seen for private condominiums and higher than for most EC projects.
This contravenes the government's aim to provide various types of homes - from the most affordable BTO flats, to DBSS flats, then EC units and then finally private homes - for homeseekers with varying levels of financial clout, Mr Mohamed Ismail said.
Analysts have noted that the price gap between DBSS and EC units has narrowed in recent years.
Nicholas Mak, head of research at SLP International, noted that in addition to giving homebuyers more options, the DBSS scheme was also mooted to give private developers a slice of the public housing market (since the property market was in the doldrums six years ago) and also to allow for more innovative building and design for HDB projects.
'The government has to decide whether these objectives are still relevant today,' said Mr Mak.
Copyright © 2010 Singapore Press Holdings Ltd. All rights reserved.
sorry dup posting, please close.
Gross profit margins can be up to 76%; five of seven projects have yielded at least 28%
By UMA SHANKARI
(SINGAPORE) Developers can make gross profit margins of up to 76 per cent from the public housing projects they develop under HDB's design, build and sell scheme (DBSS), data compiled by BT shows.
Five out of the seven DBSS projects launched since 2008 earned their developers gross profit margins of at least 28 per cent, BT estimates.
This is comparable to the 30-40 per cent gross profit margins that property groups can earn when they develop private mass-market projects.
But in some cases, DBSS margins were even higher. Sim Lian Group, for example, stands to make a gross profit margin of around 76 per cent from its recently launched Centrale 8 in Tampines - even after it announced prices that were lower than previously indicated.
In absolute terms, Hoi Hup Sunway reaped the highest gross profit for its 1,203-unit The Peak @ Toa Payoh - netting some $257 million in all.
On the other extreme were Sim Lian Group's 360-unit Parc Lumiere in Simei, and Qingdao Construction's 480-unit Natura Loft at Bishan, which earned the developers $45 million and $48 million respectively.
BT added the land cost and the building cost - using a generous construction cost estimate of $200 per square foot per plot ratio (psf ppr) - in order to calculate the total development cost for each project and arrive at the breakeven price. Industry watchers said that the construction cost could be as low as $160 psf ppr in some cases.
But the back-of-the-envelope calculations do not take into account expenses such as finance, marketing and administration.
The estimated total development cost was then matched against total sales revenue. For this, BT first took the average of the lowest and highest prices for each type of unit - three, four, or five-room flats - in a project, then multiplied the average cost of each type of flat by the total number of such flats available in the development. Some of the projects still have unsold units, industry players said - although the numbers are not significant.
Analysts said that the profit margins look high. But they pointed out that since developers do not need to take 'public interest' in account, they will price the flats as high as possible.
'I am surprised that the margins are so high,' said International Property Advisor chief executive Ku Swee Yong. 'All the more reason for us to re-examine the raison d'etre for DBSS in view of the need for a massive supply of affordable flats to satisfy the past five years of pent-up demand.'
PropNex chief executive Mohamed Ismail Gafoor noted that private developers have a duty to their shareholders to maximise profit margins. 'So, I think the fundamental issue concerns HDB, which actually provides the opportunity for private developers to make this money.'
In particular, not having a check on DBSS flat prices skews the market, he said.
The DBSS scheme was first introduced by the government in 2005 to provide a more upmarket option for buyers as compared to basic build-to-order (BTO) flats, which are sold directly by HDB.
But DBSS flats are also supposed to be a more modest option compared to executive condominium (EC) units, at least in theory, Mr Mohamed Ismail said. This is because eligibility, ownership and resale restrictions for public housing cease to apply for ECs after 10 years - effectively making them private homes.
At Centrale 8 in Tampines, flats were initially priced at up to $750 psf - a price tag more commonly seen for private condominiums and higher than for most EC projects.
This contravenes the government's aim to provide various types of homes - from the most affordable BTO flats, to DBSS flats, then EC units and then finally private homes - for homeseekers with varying levels of financial clout, Mr Mohamed Ismail said.
Analysts have noted that the price gap between DBSS and EC units has narrowed in recent years.
Nicholas Mak, head of research at SLP International, noted that in addition to giving homebuyers more options, the DBSS scheme was also mooted to give private developers a slice of the public housing market (since the property market was in the doldrums six years ago) and also to allow for more innovative building and design for HDB projects.
'The government has to decide whether these objectives are still relevant today,' said Mr Mak.
Another failed policy by MBT?
It's not a failure. You must view it from the perspective of maintaining good relationships with the industry and helping our homegrown developers to grow.
devilplate
30-06-11, 10:45
Another failed policy by MBT?
initial intention was good....but its not properly handled and failed to differentiate dbss n HDB thus cannot justify the hefty px tag
if they wana continue dbss, one way is to allow the possibility of privatisation of dbss(similar to HUDC) bcoz most dbss locations r quite good
It's not a failure. You must view it from the perspective of maintaining good relationships with the industry and helping our homegrown developers to grow.
At the expense of the homegrown homeowner..... So I guess that's OK then.
Dbss should take a back seat until the tight supply situation is over.
Or govt don't sell land to DBSS developers but just the contract! :sleep:
Or govt don't sell land to DBSS developers but just the contract! :sleep:
That would be ideal.
linchong84
30-06-11, 11:12
initial intention was good....but its not properly handled and failed to differentiate dbss n HDB thus cannot justify the hefty px tag
if they wana continue dbss, one way is to allow the possibility of privatisation of dbss(similar to HUDC) bcoz most dbss locations r quite good
How you define good? Other than the boon keng one, the rest are nowhere near MRT stations.. Even the toa payoh and ang mo kio one are >500m away.. The bishan one cant even walk to MRT.. No good no good.. DBSS is doomed to fail.. The only thing they succeeded is to bring up the prices of resale flats around them haha..
Why HDB is losing money when developer is making such healthy profit from DBSS at the expense of Singaporeans?
privatising profits, socialising costs
devilplate
30-06-11, 11:37
How you define good? Other than the boon keng one, the rest are nowhere near MRT stations.. Even the toa payoh and ang mo kio one are >500m away.. The bishan one cant even walk to MRT.. No good no good.. DBSS is doomed to fail.. The only thing they succeeded is to bring up the prices of resale flats around them haha..
i tot peak TPY is withn 5-7mins walk to mrt?
only bishan one is far from mrt...
both tamp dbss near to mrt and simei one aso consider near.....
gd in the sense they r located in mature estate and mostly still within walking dist to mrt compared to tons of lousy BTOs
devilplate
30-06-11, 11:39
Why HDB is losing money when developer is making such healthy profit from DBSS at the expense of Singaporeans?
OMG! y u ask such a question AGAIN?!?!?!?!:scared-3: :scared-4: :doh:
fyi: HDB factored in the current market valuation of the LAND tat they r building the BTOs on.....
pls dun lead this to post GE debate:scared-5:
OMG! y u ask such a question AGAIN?!?!?!?!:scared-3: :scared-4: :doh:
fyi: HDB factored in the current market valuation of the LAND tat they r building the BTOs on.....
pls dun lead this to post GE debate:scared-5:
Fyi, DBSS land are bought through bidding process which are priced above market valuation of HDB BTO land. Developers are not given subsidized land to build DBSS.
devilplate
30-06-11, 12:12
Fyi, DBSS land are bought through bidding process which are priced above market valuation of any HDB BTO land.
i din ask for tat answer/info ...did i?:beats-me-man:
devilplate
30-06-11, 12:15
anyway, singaporeans taking things for granted for too long!
they simply calculate HDB profit based on the builder's cost px...
i wud suggest HDB to price at cost px at a small plus and den factored in the cost of building the infrastructure like roads, nearby schools,parks, etc if any:doh:
i din ask for tat answer/info ...did i?:beats-me-man:
neither did I ask you how HDB justify the cost of HDB flat.
And using similar land cost formula, developers can make such healthy profit while HDB cant? HDB boleh?
devilplate
30-06-11, 12:47
neither did I ask you how HDB justify the cost of HDB flat.
And using similar land cost formula, developers can make such healthy profit while HDB cant? HDB boleh?
u post a question which i assume is open to all rite?:beats-me-man:
hdb selling 400k for 5rm flat vs 7xxk for dbss....did u compare it correctly?:beats-me-man:
u post a question which i assume is open to all rite?:beats-me-man:
hdb selling 400k for 5rm flat vs 7xxk for dbss....did u compare it correctly?:beats-me-man:
I am actually asking why HDB is so generous to allow private developers to make so much money with HDB land, and yet they are constantly complaining they are losing money building HDB flat.
devilplate
30-06-11, 13:01
I am actually asking why HDB is so generous to allow private developers to make so much money with HDB land, and yet they are constantly complaining they are losing money building HDB flat.
i dun see it tat way....HDB generous to let pte developers earn so much? den HDB shd set a min bid price? or u mean developers got the land for too low?
HDB eevr complain they losing $$ meh? its more like ppl r complaining y HDB priced bto price so high so they goto justify ....so i reply u HDB include the land valuation determined by SLA and claimed they making a loss
tats y i mentioned liao...sell HDB price at cost price no problem but where is the money gona come from to build the new infrastructure, new schools, new roads, new amenities etc? all the residents chip in to build too?
HDB didn't complain they lose money but MBT did mention it in one of his speeches earlier this year. Anyway, there are so many avenues which govt are getting money to build infrastructures, schools, buy jet planes, etc like income taxes, ERP, COE, GST, etc.. the list goes on and on and on! :D
devilplate
30-06-11, 13:12
HDB didn't complain they lose money but MBT did mention it in one of his speeches earlier this year. Anyway, there are so many avenues which govt are getting money to build infrastructures, schools, buy jet planes, etc like income taxes, ERP, COE, GST, etc.. the list goes on and on and on! :D
den leads to govt reserves issue liao....y nid so much govt reserves...how much is enuff? i want a transparent statement of our taxpayers $$$
hahaha GE again...oh ya presidential election coming!!!! time to vote again!!!:cheers6:
thomastansb
30-06-11, 13:14
Then SLA also allow LVS and Genting to make so much money? What about offices? Like Suntec. They also make so much money.
Even some chicken rice seller is making so much money. So should URA continue to rent the shop to them since they are making so much money? Or you think Government should ask them to sell chicken rice at cost price. And you earn your salary at $350 per month. Just like a communist country.
I am actually asking why HDB is so generous to allow private developers to make so much money with HDB land, and yet they are constantly complaining they are losing money building HDB flat.
den leads to govt reserves issue liao....y nid so much govt reserves...how much is enuff? i want a transparent statement of our taxpayers $$$
hahaha GE again...oh ya presidential election coming!!!! time to vote again!!!:cheers6:Hahahaha! Presidential election not that much fireworks! :o Still prefer GE!
thomastansb
30-06-11, 13:18
Also, you forgot to include developer's risk. Let's say, they bid a high price for the land during good times. Then downturn suddenly come. And they are forced to sell at a loss because under the law, they have to complete it within a certain time frame.
So it is a free market, with supply vs demand and risk vs returns.
And do you know the price of DBSS vs HDB? :doh:
neither did I ask you how HDB justify the cost of HDB flat.
And using similar land cost formula, developers can make such healthy profit while HDB cant? HDB boleh?
Also, you forgot to include developer's risk. Let's say, they bid a high price for the land during good times. Then downturn suddenly come. And they are forced to sell at a loss because under the law, they have to complete it within a certain time frame.
So it is a free market, with supply vs demand and risk vs returns.
And do you know the price of DBSS vs HDB? :doh:
it is not a free market
the govt came out pronto with a slew of measures to help property developers e.g. defer completion etc
so fast forgot liao? lol
& in recent times no developer ever sold at a loss
thomastansb
30-06-11, 14:15
Free market as in developers can bid for land at their price. And buyers can choose to buy at their price.
If you talking about defer completion, then it is policies. That is a given. Like a project has to TOP within a period, the plot ratio etc..
And lastly, no doesn't mean never. No bank has ever failed doesn't mean banks will never fail.
it is not a free market
the govt came out pronto with a slew of measures to help property developers e.g. defer completion etc
so fast forgot liao? lol
& in recent times no developer ever sold at a loss
rattydrama
30-06-11, 14:31
very strange...how come the building cost is at 200psf for all the projects? Can anyone explain why?
i dun see it tat way....HDB generous to let pte developers earn so much? den HDB shd set a min bid price? or u mean developers got the land for too low?
HDB eevr complain they losing $$ meh? its more like ppl r complaining y HDB priced bto price so high so they goto justify ....so i reply u HDB include the land valuation determined by SLA and claimed they making a loss
tats y i mentioned liao...sell HDB price at cost price no problem but where is the money gona come from to build the new infrastructure, new schools, new roads, new amenities etc? all the residents chip in to build too?
Weather HDB is dumb or generous, it up to you to decide. I am only interest to know why HDB doesn't want to DBSS themselves when there is such good profit to make from DBSS. Or if you want to look at it another way, why let private developer make money at the expense of Singaporeans?
As a Singaporeans, of course I have the right to ask such question weather it is election or not.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1015349/1/.html
Then SLA also allow LVS and Genting to make so much money? What about offices? Like Suntec. They also make so much money.
Even some chicken rice seller is making so much money. So should URA continue to rent the shop to them since they are making so much money? Or you think Government should ask them to sell chicken rice at cost price. And you earn your salary at $350 per month. Just like a communist country.
You definitely need to understand the meaning of PUBLIC HOUSING and the role of HDB before you ask me those questions
Free market as in developers can bid for land at their price. And buyers can choose to buy at their price.
If you talking about defer completion, then it is policies. That is a given. Like a project has to TOP within a period, the plot ratio etc..
And lastly, no doesn't mean never. No bank has ever failed doesn't mean banks will never fail.
the nature of public housing is not where buyers can choose to buy or not, it is a necessity and the issue is affordability
govt policies designed to help developers (e.g. extending legal completion during the financial crisis, withdrawing GLS etc) makes a mockery of free mkt
lastly, just because the pap govt or Khaw keeps stressing it is a free mkt doesnt mean it is free LOL
thomastansb
30-06-11, 15:43
I know. From HDB website, it states - Providing Affordable, Quality Homes.
BTO only cost 250 to 300k on average for a 4 bedrooms. Or 200k for a 3 bedrooms. If that is not affordable, I don't know what is.
Maybe you still live in an era where you want chicken rice at 50 cents and HDB flat at $15k.
You definitely need to understand the meaning of PUBLIC HOUSING and the role of HDB before you ask me those questions
thomastansb
30-06-11, 15:45
You are right. Affordability. 3 bedroom only 200k. Spread out 30 years, you pay like $600-700 a month? Not affordable? Well, there are always 2 bedrooms also.
the nature of public housing is not where buyers can choose to buy or not, it is a necessity and the issue is affordability
govt policies designed to help developers (e.g. extending legal completion during the financial crisis, withdrawing GLS etc) makes a mockery of free mkt
lastly, just because the pap govt or Khaw keeps stressing it is a free mkt doesnt mean it is free LOL
I know. From HDB website, it states - Providing Affordable, Quality Homes.
BTO only cost 250 to 300k on average for a 4 bedrooms. Or 200k for a 3 bedrooms. If that is not affordable, I don't know what is.
Maybe you still live in an era where you want chicken rice at 50 cents and HDB flat at $15k.
But Jadey is talking about why HDB allows DBSS, when there's gd money to be made, not about the normal BTO right?
Putting on my Enron evil accountant hat, I think it's hard for HDB to price the BTO too high, for fear of public outcry. MBT's solution then is to allow DBSS (small segment) to inflate overall HDB prices & also underbuild BTO flats at same time.
DBSS acts as a catalyst, together with underbuilding BTO flats, to increase the overall prices of HDB flat, since HDB BTOs are pegged to open market prices.
Govt dont mind leting evil developers earn a little from DBSS (small segment), while overall HDB prices rise substantially (big segment) all the way into the mythical reserves.....
I know. From HDB website, it states - Providing Affordable, Quality Homes.
BTO only cost 250 to 300k on average for a 4 bedrooms. Or 200k for a 3 bedrooms. If that is not affordable, I don't know what is.
Maybe you still live in an era where you want chicken rice at 50 cents and HDB flat at $15k.
you might have read it, but weather or not you understand what you read , the role of HDB and public housing, that I am not too sure.
But Jadey is talking about why HDB allows DBSS, when there's gd money to be made, not about the normal BTO right?
Putting on my Enron evil accountant hat, I think it's hard for HDB to price the BTO too high, for fear of public outcry. MBT's solution then is to allow DBSS (small segment) to inflate overall HDB prices & also underbuild BTO flats at same time.
DBSS acts as a catalyst, together with underbuilding BTO flats, to increase the overall prices of HDB flat, since HDB BTOs are pegged to open market prices.
Govt dont mind leting evil developers earn a little from DBSS (small segment), while overall HDB prices rise substantially (big segment) all the way into the mythical reserves.....
Hahaha, then do you mind putting on the evil accountant hat one more time to conclude the mythical reserves account?
thomastansb
30-06-11, 16:07
Good money can be made anywhere. So should we stop commercial developers from buying lands to offices? What about Kopitiam? Food is a necessity but they earn so much. Stop them?
My brother bought boon keng DBSS. He don't want BTO because he wants everything furnished. And slightly nicer than normal HDB. I told him not worth it but he still went ahead.
My point is simple. If it is so ex, if it is so disgruntling, why are DBSS over-subscribed and so wildly popular? Obviously there is a market for it. If you don't want, other people want. Unless we have 0 sales for tampines DBSS, then I think there is a market for it.
I have one conclusion. It is those people who earn too little to afford DBSS but yet, don't like HDB. According to Mr. KBW, 33% rejected HDB flats despite having a chance to choose. Fussy and cheapo.
I agree with you on the underbuilding of BTO though and also agree to scrap DBSS. But we might be wrong. There are people who bought DBSS and are happy. My bro is one at least. Balcony with fantastic seaview and MRT below. So what is not good for you/me might be a fantastic choice for another. Why should we disallow others from buying if there is a market for it?
But Jadey is talking about why HDB allows DBSS, when there's gd money to be made, not about the normal BTO right?
Putting on my Enron evil accountant hat, I think it's hard for HDB to price the BTO too high, for fear of public outcry. MBT's solution then is to allow DBSS (small segment) to inflate overall HDB prices & also underbuild BTO flats at same time.
DBSS acts as a catalyst, together with underbuilding BTO flats, to increase the overall prices of HDB flat, since HDB BTOs are pegged to open market prices.
Govt dont mind leting evil developers earn a little from DBSS (small segment), while overall HDB prices rise substantially (big segment) all the way into the mythical reserves.....
thomastansb
30-06-11, 16:08
So you care to explain?
you might have read it, but weather or not you understand what you read , the role of HDB and public housing, that I am not too sure.
Hahaha, then do you mind putting on the evil accountant hat one more time to conclude the mythical reserves account?
Aiyoh how to work out the "mythical reserves account" easily?
Think need "50 man-years" & all the President's scholars in the present & past cabinets to determine the amount leh...:D
You are right. Affordability. 3 bedroom only 200k. Spread out 30 years, you pay like $600-700 a month? Not affordable? Well, there are always 2 bedrooms also.
30 yrs is not affordable liao
Should be 20 yrs.
Also, you forgot to include developer's risk. Let's say, they bid a high price for the land during good times. Then downturn suddenly come. And they are forced to sell at a loss because under the law, they have to complete it within a certain time frame.
So it is a free market, with supply vs demand and risk vs returns.
And do you know the price of DBSS vs HDB? :doh:
it is not a free market for DBSS as 1) housing grant is provide 2) supply is control by HDB and 3) financing scheme is controlled by HDB
It is less risky for private developers for DBSS as the supply/demand equilibrium is artificially twisted by a visible hand with the mystical reserve which belongs to all Singaporeans
By all means developers can bid for private housing lands at crazy price and launch prices that are even crazier as they wish
But for DBSS which is still under the public housing category, profit margin shall be controlled just like utilities
30 yrs is not affordable liao
Should be 20 yrs.
come on, it is very affordable when compared with other countries and SG's income level
200K cannot even buy you honda civic, which is like 3m*4m aircon-ed, carpeted space?
phantom_opera
30-06-11, 16:35
Only one comment from me, those who bought overpriced DBSS flat e.g. Sim Lian Centrale 8 is plain foolish or they are just too rich to care about 100k extra margin made by Sim Lian.
You buy a 4rm HDB from Sim Lian @ Tampines, 84sqm, 10sqm is balcony, 4sqm is air con ledge, price is 5XXk even after deducting 30k grant
In a normal BTO project, there is no balcony, air con ledge probably only 1-2sqm !!!
How come nobody wrote to press to complain about that?
thomastansb
30-06-11, 16:36
What has the number of years got to do with affordability?
30 yrs is not affordable liao
Should be 20 yrs.
thomastansb
30-06-11, 16:39
Less riskier still got risk. Like now, release few thousand HDB every month. You tell me this is control? Last time, release few thousand in 1 year. So this is one good example of risk that I am talking about.
it is not a free market for DBSS as 1) housing grant is provide 2) supply is control by HDB and 3) financing scheme is controlled by HDB
It is less risky for private developers for DBSS as the supply/demand equilibrium is artificially twisted by a visible hand with the mystical reserve which belongs to all Singaporeans
By all means developers can bid for private housing lands at crazy price and launch prices that are even crazier as they wish
But for DBSS which is still under the public housing category, profit margin shall be controlled just like utilities
thomastansb
30-06-11, 16:43
Well, maybe they like the place? I am definitely against DBSS but they weigh the options, they like the place, they like the full furnishing concept, they have to pay for it.
Btw, I also think it is foolish to buy Maserati or Rolls Royce. Can buy a few properties already - fully paid. But who are we to stop them from selling? If it is too ex, don't buy. But the rich can easily afford. I have no issue with that. Unlike those who want to buy DBSS, cannot afford and start making so much noise.
Only one comment from me, those who bought overpriced DBSS flat e.g. Sim Lian Centrale 8 is plain foolish or they are just too rich to care about 100k extra margin made by Sim Lian.
You buy a 4rm HDB from Sim Lian @ Tampines, 84sqm, 10sqm is balcony, 4sqm is air con ledge, price is 5XXk even after deducting 30k grant
In a normal BTO project, there is no balcony, air con ledge probably only 1-2sqm !!!
How come nobody wrote to press to complain about that?
Good money can be made anywhere. So should we stop commercial developers from buying lands to offices? What about Kopitiam? Food is a necessity but they earn so much. Stop them?
My brother bought boon keng DBSS. He don't want BTO because he wants everything furnished. And slightly nicer than normal HDB. I told him not worth it but he still went ahead.
My point is simple. If it is so ex, if it is so disgruntling, why are DBSS over-subscribed and so wildly popular? Obviously there is a market for it. If you don't want, other people want. Unless we have 0 sales for tampines DBSS, then I think there is a market for it.
I have one conclusion. It is those people who earn too little to afford DBSS but yet, don't like HDB. According to Mr. KBW, 33% rejected HDB flats despite having a chance to choose. Fussy and cheapo.
I agree with you on the underbuilding of BTO though and also agree to scrap DBSS. But we might be wrong. There are people who bought DBSS and are happy. My bro is one at least. Balcony with fantastic seaview and MRT below. So what is not good for you/me might be a fantastic choice for another. Why should we disallow others from buying if there is a market for it?
Err.....I try to explain again succintly. Jadey is asking:- why should the Govt let private developers massively profit from public housing at the expense of the citizens, and inflating HDB prices in the process?
Instead of building the flats themselves at subsidized prices to benefit citizens?
I get your point on the demand for DBSS. But could it be more a case of people buying the location rather than the fabled furnishing? Some may also be frustrated with their repeated failures in BTO market.
I might be wrong, but I think that given the same location, there will be greater demand for BTO rather than DBSS. I think the demand for DBSS flats is a reflection of their prime location, rather than validation of the DBSS model itself.
Buyers who see themselves buying a LT home rather than an investment, are hence willing to pay the additional premium, though they would prefer the cheaper BTO option of course.
Less riskier still got risk. Like now, release few thousand HDB every month. You tell me this is control? Last time, release few thousand in 1 year. So this is one good example of risk that I am talking about.
Of course it is controlled as 1) DBSS land supply only comes from HDB and 2) demand is artificially inflated due to housing grant and financing scheme
The risk is greatly mitigated by the reasons above, and for the same reason, profit margin shall be controlled to a reasonable level, just like utilities
By allowing developers to decide freely to participate DBSS or not does not make it a free market
What has the number of years got to do with affordability?
Humm......we seem to be getting into GE territory! haha I reserve my comments on this till Aug'11.... hahaha
phantom_opera
30-06-11, 16:47
Actually the only thing I complained is oversized balcony and AC ledge but I agree that you must pay $$$ for prime location near MRT (e.g. DBSS Tampines, Simei are definitely near enough). In fact, some old HDBs near EWL are asking 80k COV now !!! Due to high price of COE + MRT expansion, people are now willing to pay higher and higher COV for flats near MRT.
Actually the only thing I complained is oversized balcony and AC ledge but I agree that you must pay $$$ for prime location near MRT (e.g. DBSS Tampines, Simei are definitely near enough). In fact, some old HDBs near EWL are asking 80k COV now !!! Due to high price of COE + MRT expansion, people are now willing to pay higher and higher COV for flats near MRT.
I guess the question is that, for the same DBSS Tamp site, why can't they do BOT even at a higher than normal BOT price? Wouldn't that create more utility for the public rather than for the developer?
thomastansb
30-06-11, 17:18
well, I am against DBSS. Yup, there are some who can't get BTO and move to DBSS instead. I am sure there are a handful.
Anyway, I am also disgusted about the fussiness of people. 33% rejected BTO flat.
Err.....I try to explain again succintly. Jadey is asking:- why should the Govt let private developers massively profit from public housing at the expense of the citizens, and inflating HDB prices in the process?
Instead of building the flats themselves at subsidized prices to benefit citizens?
I get your point on the demand for DBSS. But could it be more a case of people buying the location rather than the fabled furnishing? Some may also be frustrated with their repeated failures in BTO market.
I might be wrong, but I think that given the same location, there will be greater demand for BTO rather than DBSS. I think the demand for DBSS flats is a reflection of their prime location, rather than validation of the DBSS model itself.
Buyers who see themselves buying a LT home rather than an investment, are hence willing to pay the additional premium, though they would prefer the cheaper BTO option of course.
linchong84
30-06-11, 17:22
Wah.. this kind of topic can draw so much attention from forumers here huh hahaha..
For all you forgetful fellows, pls refer to KBW's quote of the year "DBSS is not HDB".. So, pls stop linking HDB to DBSS, or whether it is govt or HDB's job to ensure DBSS is cheap.. As for whether it is morally right for govt to to do is another matter..
And for people who really think DBSS locations are wonderful, that's all rubbish.. Their next few launches are going to happen in Hougang and Sengkang.. Both are >1km away from the MRT.. The toa payoh one is directly in between TPY and Bradell MRT stations, not beside.. bishan one is somewhere near cat high which is >1km from MRT.. For tamp one, it is currently 1km away from the present Tamp MRT station. Even after DT line 3 is up, the station is still 400-500m away.. AMK one is also 400-500m away.. I'm not trying to diss the locations, but my point is why do they deserve privatisation when they have nothing special except oversized balconies and aircon ledges?? Big aircon ledges very lihai meh?
phantom_opera
30-06-11, 17:29
I guess the question is that, for the same DBSS Tamp site, why can't they do BOT even at a higher than normal BOT price? Wouldn't that create more utility for the public rather than for the developer?
Recently there was one Tampines BTO, further away from MRT but much cheaper about 300k ... and no balcony with small AC ledge
DBSS Tampines costs 250k more and you get 16% unusable space ha ha ha
Wah.. this kind of topic can draw so much attention from forumers here huh hahaha..
For all you forgetful fellows, pls refer to KBW's quote of the year "DBSS is not HDB".. So, pls stop linking HDB to DBSS, or whether it is govt or HDB's job to ensure DBSS is cheap.. As for whether it is morally right for govt to to do is another matter..
And for people who really think DBSS locations are wonderful, that's all rubbish.. Their next few launches are going to happen in Hougang and Sengkang.. Both are >1km away from the MRT.. The toa payoh one is directly in between TPY and Bradell MRT stations, not beside.. bishan one is somewhere near cat high which is >1km from MRT.. For tamp one, it is currently 1km away from the present Tamp MRT station. Even after DT line 3 is up, the station is still 400-500m away.. AMK one is also 400-500m away.. I'm not trying to diss the locations, but my point is why do they deserve privatisation when they have nothing special except oversized balconies and aircon ledges?? Big aircon ledges very lihai meh?
To me, the statement of "DBSS is not HDB" is similar to an ancient Chinese sophism of "White horse is not horse"
Recently there was one Tampines BTO, further away from MRT but much cheaper about 300k ... and no balcony with small AC ledge
DBSS Tampines costs 250k more and you get 16% unusable space ha ha ha
The difference between the Tampines BTO and DBSS is that :
those DBSS buyers get a big balcony and developer earns millions
devilplate
30-06-11, 17:47
You definitely need to understand the meaning of PUBLIC HOUSING and the role of HDB before you ask me those questions
See...become post election debate:doh:
linchong84
30-06-11, 17:47
The difference between the Tampines BTO and DBSS is that :
those DBSS buyers get a big balcony and developer earns millions
Although you are right, but you didn't capture their MAIN difference which is the crux.. The main difference should be: govt doesn't get to earn from BTOs but they get to earn hundreds of millions from DBSS through land sales.. That's why they love DBSS deep deep!! you want them to abolish it?? hard lah..
well, I am against DBSS. Yup, there are some who can't get BTO and move to DBSS instead. I am sure there are a handful.
Has our dear HDB lost it's mission direction on "public housing" for granting DBSS to private developer? :2cents:
devilplate
30-06-11, 18:10
Mbt make a mistake...he shd jus sell all those dbss sites to build condo or EC
I tink everyone agrees dbss :tsk-tsk: :tsk-tsk:
The whole debate started by a qn tat ask y hdb let developer make so much money from dbss....to me, doesnt make any sense....:p
The qn shd b y we nid dbss in the first place since we oredi got EC for sandwiched grp?
Intially dbss prices still ok bcoz income ceiling was cap at 8k....but duno y raise to 8-10k n on par wif EC:rolleyes:
So can u imagine wat will happen to bto px after income ceiling raised to 10k? I will expect to see 700k 5rm bto flat.....whahaha....
devilplate
30-06-11, 18:15
Has our dear HDB lost it's mission direction on "public housing" for granting DBSS to private developer? :2cents:
Still got cheap bto la....dbss jus a small segment. Ppl can dun buy dbss wat n make the developer suxx thumb rite? Y must buy dbss from them? Y dun they buy bto?
Y u nvr question those ppl who bot dbss instead?:p
So many btos to choose from.....30%rejection rate somemore....y u nvr question them y they reject?:p
Low flr must reject meh? Really cannot stay meh? Punggol too far? Must die die stay near paremts, near town? Y u nvr question those who said tat?
Ai yoh, nowsadays the Y gen thinks all of us own them a living mah. They not happy say vote for opposition thinking will scare the hell out of PAP. They think govt must gaurantee them cheap new HDB flats in mature estates that after they live for 5 years can sell for a huge profit like 20 years ago mah. :banghead:
All those excuses like die die must live near their parents in mature estates so that parents can help to look after children else cannot give birth and blame govt for causing them not to give birth :scared-1: . Those living in Orchard must also be thinking Govt have to provide them properties in Orchard to live near their parents in Orchard too? :p
Still got cheap bto la....dbss jus a small segment. Ppl can dun buy dbss wat n make the developer suxx thumb rite? Y must buy dbss from them? Y dun they buy bto?
Y u nvr question those ppl who bot dbss instead?:p
So many btos to choose from.....30%rejection rate somemore....y u nvr question them y they reject?:p
Low flr must reject meh? Really cannot stay meh? Punggol too far? Must die die stay near paremts, near town? Y u nvr question those who said tat?
Ai yoh, nowsadays the Y gen thinks all of us own them a living mah. They not happy say vote for opposition thinking will scare the hell out of PAP. They think govt must gaurantee them cheap new HDB flats in mature estates that after they live for 5 years can sell for a huge profit like 20 years ago mah. :banghead:
All those excuses like die die must live near their parents in mature estates so that parents can help to look after children else cannot give birth and blame govt for causing them not to give birth :scared-1: . Those living in Orchard must also be thinking Govt have to provide them properties in Orchard to live near their parents in Orchard too? :p
they're probably eyeing redhill.
What has the number of years got to do with affordability?
you sure you dont know??
devilplate
01-07-11, 00:29
you sure you dont know??
Its a matter of choice....i m sure 4rm flat still can service 20yrs loan at let say 350k purchase px
Abt 1500-1600/mth for 20yrs loan of 300k loan at 2.5% hdb loan int rate...a couple of 5k can well afford 1.6k installment which is abt 32% of their pay....still within 1/3 of their 5k pay....den those above 5k to 8k easy easy service the loan
thomastansb
01-07-11, 00:45
No, really. I don't know.
To me, if one month is $500 from my CPF for 30 years, that is affordable.
If one month $1500 from my CPF + cash for 10 years, that could be a tiny problem but still manageable
If one month $5000 from my CPF + cash for 3 years, then my flat will be repossessed by the 3rd month
That is why I say, 20 years or 30 years has got nothing to do with affordability. If 20 years installment too high, go for 30. Still too high, go for 3 bedroom. Still too high, buy a 2 bedroom or studio or work harder. Studio only like 60-70k?
you sure you dont know??
devilplate
01-07-11, 00:49
That is why I say, 20 years or 30 years has got nothing to do with affordability. If 20 years installment too high, go for 30. Still too high, go for 3 bedroom. Still too high, buy a 2 bedroom or studio or work harder. Studio only like 60-70k?
Studios only for above 55yo
Dun tink got 2rm flat liao....
Below 5k can apply 3rm flat, whereas 5-8k must buy 4 or 5 rm flat
So fairer to based on 5k income to calculate affordibility of a typical 4rm flat which cost typically 250-300k
Ai yoh, nowsadays the Y gen thinks all of us own them a living mah. They not happy say vote for opposition thinking will scare the hell out of PAP. They think govt must gaurantee them cheap new HDB flats in mature estates that after they live for 5 years can sell for a huge profit like 20 years ago mah. :banghead:
All those excuses like die die must live near their parents in mature estates so that parents can help to look after children else cannot give birth and blame govt for causing them not to give birth :scared-1: . Those living in Orchard must also be thinking Govt have to provide them properties in Orchard to live near their parents in Orchard too? :pThose whose parents stay in Orchard road will have several other apartments nearby that their parents will give them as wedding gifts. Parents will not allow their kids to stay in HDB coz it brings down their social status! :p So they won't ask govt to build HDB in Orchard! :p
devilplate
01-07-11, 08:41
Those whose parents stay in Orchard road will have several other apartments nearby that their parents will give them as wedding gifts. Parents will not allow their kids to stay in HDB coz it brings down their social status! :p So they won't ask govt to build HDB in Orchard! :p
no nid to be in orchard belt wat
havelock HDBs leh? Zion tat side aso got HDBs
can nvr satisy raising expectations....u give in 1 inch, they advance a mile....hehe
thomastansb
01-07-11, 09:43
Fair enough. But what I meant is there are always other options available. Average income of 5k have no problem paying for a 4 bedroom. Period. But if we have those slightly lower income like 1k each, there are other options available.
Buy a Vios if you cannot afford BMW. That is all I can say.
Studios only for above 55yo
Dun tink got 2rm flat liao....
Below 5k can apply 3rm flat, whereas 5-8k must buy 4 or 5 rm flat
So fairer to based on 5k income to calculate affordibility of a typical 4rm flat which cost typically 250-300k
No, really. I don't know.
To me, if one month is $500 from my CPF for 30 years, that is affordable.
If one month $1500 from my CPF + cash for 10 years, that could be a tiny problem but still manageable
If one month $5000 from my CPF + cash for 3 years, then my flat will be repossessed by the 3rd month
That is why I say, 20 years or 30 years has got nothing to do with affordability. If 20 years installment too high, go for 30. Still too high, go for 3 bedroom. Still too high, buy a 2 bedroom or studio or work harder. Studio only like 60-70k?
hdb is not investment pty, loan tenure for own stay pty should therefore be kept as short as possible. stretching loan tenure in order to maintain same household cashflow just means inaffordability & less financial prudence.
devilplate
01-07-11, 10:46
hdb is not investment pty, loan tenure for own stay pty should therefore be kept as short as possible. stretching loan tenure in order to maintain same household cashflow just means inaffordability & less financial prudence.
times changed...last time MOP 10yrs and cannot sublet out at all!! now MOP 5yrs only
mabe shd revert back to MOP 10yrs for selling and subletting since u say HDB is not an investment ppty and its for primary residence.....den can aso reduce the bto price at the same time.....but surely got ppl complain 10yrs so long!! blah blah....
how to satisfy everybody?
times changed...last time MOP 10yrs and cannot sublet out at all!! now MOP 5yrs only
yes times have changed, and public housing has become less and less affordable. no point denying this fact.
devilplate
01-07-11, 10:50
yes times have changed, and public housing has become less and less affordable. no point denying this fact.
see my edited post....hehe
not sure who willing to sacrifice 5yrs MOP to 10yrs for a reduction in HDB prices?
30 yrs is not affordable liao
Should be 20 yrs.
A Japanese friend paid off his house (not apartment) loan in 7 years. It was located within 1 hr from Shinjuku and he is a normal salaryman. So whether 20 or 10 or 7 years is reasonable?
A Japanese friend paid off his house (not apartment) loan in 7 years. It was located within 1 hr from Shinjuku and he is a normal salaryman. So whether 20 or 10 or 7 years is reasonable?
i pay for my own stay pty with full cash, no loan, does it mean pty prices is therefore reasonable? lol
devilplate
01-07-11, 11:00
not sure whether really HDB is getting less affordable....i remember my childhood days, majority of my frens staying in 1 or 2room HDB flats with family of 6 at least.....most of them cannot even afford to lay tiles and do up proper kitchen.....i am sure u still can see some old 2/3rm flats in original HDB condition(bare ground without tiles)
few of my childhood frens from such family background....super poor....den now staying and upgraded to at least 4rm flat.....so whether HDB flats is getting less affordable is really questionable
standard of living changed....lifestyle changed.....so dun expect the same kind of prices previously.....
i pay for my own stay pty with full cash, no loan, does it mean pty prices is therefore reasonable? lol
Read - "normal salaryman". Forgot your reading glasses? :doh:
devilplate
01-07-11, 11:07
A Japanese friend paid off his house (not apartment) loan in 7 years. It was located within 1 hr from Shinjuku and he is a normal salaryman. So whether 20 or 10 or 7 years is reasonable?
does it mean tat we shd invest in Japan ppty now?:cool:
japanese used to take few generations to pay off housing loan....now 7yrs only for normal salaryman!
see my edited post....hehe
not sure who willing to sacrifice 5yrs MOP to 10yrs for a reduction in HDB prices?
Quite, quite... so the mindset is, HDB please sell me cheap at good location and high floors, but I want to resell asap to move on to condo?
hdb is not investment pty, loan tenure for own stay pty should therefore be kept as short as possible. stretching loan tenure in order to maintain same household cashflow just means inaffordability & less financial prudence.You are right to point that out but only if you have that option not to stretch the loan tenure. Some already using 50% of household income on housing loans so no choice but to stretch lor... then again if those who can afford to reduce tenure should seriously consider. :D
does it mean tat we shd invest in Japan ppty now?:cool:
japanese used to take few generations to pay off housing loan....now 7yrs only for normal salaryman!
Not sure about the investment part, but the point is, what is affordability for a home (not an investment vehicle)?
If a normal salaryman in first world japan can afford to own his home in 7 years, is 20 or 30 years too long for Singapore?
Quite, quite... so the mindset is, HDB please sell me cheap at good location and high floors, but I want to resell asap to move on to condo?This mentality is instant noodle mentality and unfortunately its plaguing many young people today, especially in Singapore. I think its good idea to peg MOP to how much further subsidy a buyer can receive from govt. 10yr MOP and cheap vs 5yr MOP and more expensive... brilliant! :o
Not sure about the investment part, but the point is, what is affordability for a home (not an investment vehicle)?
If a normal salaryman in first world japan can afford to own his home in 7 years, is 20 or 30 years too long for Singapore?Affordability takes on very different and varied meanings for different people along with their family dynamics and other financial commitments like looking after aged or siblings, etc. Anyway, people can always start with 20yr tenure then when their financial status changes, they can pay off everything 5 years into the tenure is totally up to them. Just don't over-commit! :spliff:
devilplate
01-07-11, 11:16
This mentality is instant noodle mentality and unfortunately its plaguing many young people today, especially in Singapore. I think its good idea to peg MOP to how much further subsidy a buyer can receive from govt. 10yr MOP and cheap vs 5yr MOP and more expensive... brilliant! :o
i tink KBW shd seriously consider our 'brilliant' proposal! hehe
current bto scheme pegging to resale flats wif a discount remains.....but give more options of 5yrs MOP and 10yrs MOP....den see those yng gen how to complain?:D
This mentality is instant noodle mentality and unfortunately its plaguing many young people today, especially in Singapore. I think its good idea to peg MOP to how much further subsidy a buyer can receive from govt. 10yr MOP and cheap vs 5yr MOP and more expensive... brilliant! :o
Good idea...wonder if the brilliant scholars in the ministry examined it...perhaps they had but found it against the gov's "social objectives".
linchong84
01-07-11, 11:28
The SPH journalist was requesting for MOP to be removed so that she can rent out the BTO immediatly.. Now you want to increase to 10 years, she angry how?? Then she will write more articles to agitate the forumers here.. Some people here are quite old already, cannot be agitated too much..
devilplate
01-07-11, 11:34
The SPH journalist was requesting for MOP to be removed so that she can rent out the BTO immediatly.. Now you want to increase to 10 years, she angry how?? Then she will write more articles to agitate the forumers here.. Some people here are quite old already, cannot be agitated too much..
by her definition, HDB surely is an investment vehicle liao
so how to say HDB is public housing and shd be affordable?
conflict of interest liao...
JUST BOO BOO HER OFF LOR...hehehehehe
The SPH journalist was requesting for MOP to be removed so that she can rent out the BTO immediatly.. Now you want to increase to 10 years, she angry how?? Then she will write more articles to agitate the forumers here.. Some people here are quite old already, cannot be agitated too much..Don't worry... forumers here are not so easily agitated, just very kapo to want to discuss about such articles :D... even if too old and need bypass, just call KBW and tell him you need that same subsidy he had. :p
devilplate
01-07-11, 11:49
Don't worry... forumers here are not so easily agitated, just very kapo to want to discuss about such articles :D... even if too old and need bypass, just call KBW and tell him you need that same subsidy he had. :p
he prolly refering to wenqing only la....
the rest of us ok one la....:cool:
smtimes get a little heated up lor like i mentioned smbody's wifey....ops...my bad la...:ashamed1:
linchong84
01-07-11, 11:51
She is giving govt 3 routes to choose from:
1. give her good and cheap bto like dawson.
2. if cannot, then she will still take lousy punggol, jurong, yishun bto. but remove the mop so that she can rent out and gek power to buy pte.
3. if still cannot, then she will threaten to leave (who needs her anyway)..
it's just like your young children.. when they want you to buy toy A or toy B and you refuse to, they will make a scene at the toy shop and cry out loud refuse to leave to attract public attention.. so parents also got 3 ways to deal with this kind of children..
1. give in to them and buy the toy. Eventually, they will know once they cry, you will give in.. and they will always cry to make u give in every single time they want something.. and they will grow up being very dependent and spoilt..
2. dun give in to them and beat the hell out of them in public.. the public will think you are a bad parent who mistreats the child and condemn you..
3. dun give in to them but give them fake promises and sooth them to go home peacefully without making a scene.. when they reach home and no more public eyes, whack the hell out of them so that next time they dare not make noise in the public again..
i think govt is doing (3) which is good haha..
he prolly refering to wenqing only la....
the rest of us ok one la....:cool:
smtimes get a little heated up lor like i mentioned smbody's wifey....ops...my bad la...:ashamed1:Hahaha! :o
She is giving govt 3 routes to choose from:
1. give her good and cheap bto like dawson.
2. if cannot, then she will still take lousy punggol, jurong, yishun bto. but remove the mop so that she can rent out and gek power to buy pte.
3. if still cannot, then she will threaten to leave (who needs her anyway)..
it's just like your young children.. when they want you to buy toy A or toy B and you refuse to, they will make a scene at the toy shop and cry out loud refuse to leave to attract public attention.. so parents also got 3 ways to deal with this kind of children..
1. give in to them and buy the toy. Eventually, they will know once they cry, you will give in.. and they will always cry to make u give in every single time they want something.. and they will grow up being very dependent and spoilt..
2. dun give in to them and beat the hell out of them in public.. the public will think you are a bad parent who mistreats the child and condemn you..
3. dun give in to them but give them fake promises and sooth them to go home peacefully without making a scene.. when they reach home and no more public eyes, whack the hell out of them so that next time they dare not make noise in the public again..
i think govt is doing (3) which is good haha..So you mean she's been asked to go into the boss's room the next day after her article was published? Hahaha! Let's see how her next article will sound or will she even ever get to write again? :spliff2:
She is giving govt 3 routes to choose from:
1. give her good and cheap bto like dawson.
2. if cannot, then she will still take lousy punggol, jurong, yishun bto. but remove the mop so that she can rent out and gek power to buy pte.
3. if still cannot, then she will threaten to leave (who needs her anyway)..
it's just like your young children.. when they want you to buy toy A or toy B and you refuse to, they will make a scene at the toy shop and cry out loud refuse to leave to attract public attention.. so parents also got 3 ways to deal with this kind of children..
1. give in to them and buy the toy. Eventually, they will know once they cry, you will give in.. and they will always cry to make u give in every single time they want something.. and they will grow up being very dependent and spoilt..
2. dun give in to them and beat the hell out of them in public.. the public will think you are a bad parent who mistreats the child and condemn you..
3. dun give in to them but give them fake promises and sooth them to go home peacefully without making a scene.. when they reach home and no more public eyes, whack the hell out of them so that next time they dare not make noise in the public again..
i think govt is doing (3) which is good haha..
It's an SPH journalist leh.........sounds suspiciously like a planted article to me to take a swipe at Gen Y......
Then again, it's also true that condo fever has swept many Gen Y. I can never understand why couples < $10k want to go the condo route straight away, instead of BTO/ECs? :doh:
It's an SPH journalist leh.........sounds suspiciously like a planted article to me to take a swipe at Gen Y......
Then again, it's also true that condo fever has swept many Gen Y. I can never understand why couples < $10k want to go the condo route straight away, instead of BTO/ECs? :doh:Agreed. They should climb, progressing from one to the next, otherwise they'll soon discover the great financial burden when kids come along, etc! Overcommitment is :scared-1:. Their mindset must be guided and educated... :D
devilplate
01-07-11, 12:12
It's an SPH journalist leh.........sounds suspiciously like a planted article to me to take a swipe at Gen Y......
Then again, it's also true that condo fever has swept many Gen Y. I can never understand why couples < $10k want to go the condo route straight away, instead of BTO/ECs? :doh:
i overheard smthing when i visit EC showflat
a yng couple looking at the model happily and shows great interest....den i overheard their conversation wif their mother....their mom says go get punggol BTOs la....300k 4rm flat so cheap n affordable ....y buy 6xxk ECs?
hehe...pardon me as i am not a gd story teller(its a true story)
devilplate
01-07-11, 12:14
Agreed. They should climb, progressing from one to the next, otherwise they'll soon discover the great financial burden when kids come along, etc! Overcommitment is :scared-1:. Their mindset must be guided and educated... :D
tats y ended up low birth rate lor
i overheard smthing when i visit EC showflat
a yng couple looking at the model happily and shows great interest....den i overheard their conversation wif their mother....their mom says go get punggol BTOs la....300k 4rm flat so cheap n affordable ....y buy 6xxk ECs?
hehe...pardon me as i am not a gd story teller(its a true story)Unfortunately many couples are tempted by the facilities on offer and totally ignore their financial muscles! Well its their choice after all! This is what the govt can offer and so long as they don't make ridiculous demands (give them one inch they ask for one mile), then I guess its still ok. But I must add that the mother is prudent. She sees further but the same may not be repeated for many other young couples! :D
linchong84
01-07-11, 12:36
Unfortunately many couples are tempted by the facilities on offer and totally ignore their financial muscles! Well its their choice after all! This is what the govt can offer and so long as they don't make ridiculous demands (give them one inch they ask for one mile), then I guess its still ok. But I must add that the mother is prudent. She sees further but the same may not be repeated for many other young couples! :D
I think the mum is giving the wrong advice.. 6xxk EC is affordable to young couple ma.. Now inflation so high, keep the money in bank or cpf for what??Buy BTO or EC can.. Buy DBSS is a big no no..
devilplate
01-07-11, 12:44
I think the mum is giving the wrong advice.. 6xxk EC is affordable to young couple ma.. Now inflation so high, keep the money in bank or cpf for what??Buy BTO or EC can.. Buy DBSS is a big no no..
if the yng couple can buy bto meaning they r earning less den 8k mah.....EC is more for 8-10k group of 1st timer mah
linchong84
01-07-11, 12:52
if the yng couple can buy bto meaning they r earning less den 8k mah.....EC is more for 8-10k group of 1st timer mah
Hmm true.. If still <8k maybe shouldn't tax themselves too hard.. But BTO not easy to strike..
I think the mum is giving the wrong advice.. 6xxk EC is affordable to young couple ma.. Now inflation so high, keep the money in bank or cpf for what??Buy BTO or EC can.. Buy DBSS is a big no no..Well you don't know the context mah... maybe they have cash but don't want to spend on DBSS or EC but invest in some other stuff instead of putting into bank! :p
Read - "normal salaryman". Forgot your reading glasses? :doh:
u use a "normal salaryman" as your example for japan. so likewise i use myself as an example, which is of cos not representative of majority sporean public housing buyers. i may need reading glasses but u might need reading brains. LOL
Hmm true.. If still <8k maybe shouldn't tax themselves too hard.. But BTO not easy to strike..BTO not easy to strike also got 50-50 or 1 in 2 chance of getting for a project which is two times oversubscribed. Much better than toto which is like 1 in 600 000 chance of winning. :D
u use a "normal salaryman" as your example for japan. so likewise i use myself as an example, which is of cos not representative of majority sporean public housing buyers. i may need reading glasses but u might need reading brains. LOL
you should stop making a fool out of yourself.
:doh:
phantom_opera
01-07-11, 15:46
As expected, HDB resale price index up in Q2:
HDB’s flash estimate of the 2nd Quarter 2011 Resale Price Index (RPI) is 179.9, an increase of 2.9% over 1st Quarter 2011
The index is a laggard, reflecting txns done 3 months ago ... now th index should be already 183-185. I expect index to hit close to 200 at the peak.
As expected, HDB resale price index up in Q2:
HDB’s flash estimate of the 2nd Quarter 2011 Resale Price Index (RPI) is 179.9, an increase of 2.9% over 1st Quarter 2011
The index is a laggard, reflecting txns done 3 months ago ... now th index should be already 183-185. I expect index to hit close to 200 at the peak.By year end? or next year end?
thomastansb
01-07-11, 16:39
Not forgetting, no clean water or maybe that time already have, no jobs, no MRT, screw up bus with no air con, no shopping center and many many more.... It is like Vietnam. Nowadays, people are so greedy and really damn stupid. Want to buy first world country flats at Vietnam prices. Knn :doh:
not sure whether really HDB is getting less affordable....i remember my childhood days, majority of my frens staying in 1 or 2room HDB flats with family of 6 at least.....most of them cannot even afford to lay tiles and do up proper kitchen.....i am sure u still can see some old 2/3rm flats in original HDB condition(bare ground without tiles)
few of my childhood frens from such family background....super poor....den now staying and upgraded to at least 4rm flat.....so whether HDB flats is getting less affordable is really questionable
standard of living changed....lifestyle changed.....so dun expect the same kind of prices previously.....
thomastansb
01-07-11, 16:51
If they really want, I think should have MOP 20 years and sell them at 100k.
times changed...last time MOP 10yrs and cannot sublet out at all!! now MOP 5yrs only
mabe shd revert back to MOP 10yrs for selling and subletting since u say HDB is not an investment ppty and its for primary residence.....den can aso reduce the bto price at the same time.....but surely got ppl complain 10yrs so long!! blah blah....
how to satisfy everybody?
thomastansb
01-07-11, 16:56
For those who strike, 33% rejected a flat.
So are those whiners really in need of a flat? Not forgetting, 90% of the 33% who rejected are first timer.
This Gen is too greedy. Want to have no MOP, then their father buy or rent from them ah? Want to stay near parents (Serangoon) but yet apply in Dawson. Ridiculous.
Also, there will always be a few who are really having very low income but it can't be helped. As long as majority needs are met, then I think it is good enough.
Lazy and stupid :doh:
Hmm true.. If still <8k maybe shouldn't tax themselves too hard.. But BTO not easy to strike..
For those who strike, 33% rejected a flat.
So are those whiners really in need of a flat? Not forgetting, 90% of the 33% who rejected are first timer.
This Gen is too greedy. Want to have no MOP, then their father buy or rent from them ah? Want to stay near parents (Serangoon) but yet apply in Dawson. Ridiculous.
Also, there will always be a few who are really having very low income but it can't be helped. As long as majority needs are met, then I think it is good enough.
Lazy and stupid :doh:Think the new balloting system takes into consideration the number of times a balloter rejects. Those who reject before will be behind in priority as compared with those who haven't rejected. The highest priorities goes to those who were unsuccessful in their previous attempts! :D
devilplate
01-07-11, 19:53
Think the new balloting system takes into consideration the number of times a balloter rejects. Those who reject before will be behind in priority as compared with those who haven't rejected. The highest priorities goes to those who were unsuccessful in their previous attempts! :D
I highly suspect so! From wat i gathered so far on the ground....
So dun anyhow apply n reject for the very first time:2cents:
Fair enough. But what I meant is there are always other options available. Average income of 5k have no problem paying for a 4 bedroom. Period. But if we have those slightly lower income like 1k each, there are other options available.
Buy a Vios if you cannot afford BMW. That is all I can say.
Thats only IF you dont have a family or any elderly parents to take care, and you dont believe you ever need to have a retirement plan.
It appears BT has understated the land sale price. If this is correct, the profit margin is not as high as initially thought, more like 5-7% than a whopping 70+%
http://info.sgx.com/webcoranncatth.nsf/VwAttachments/Att_18254373848B707B482578BF002C0CFE/$file/Clarify.BT.article_2011-06-30.pdf?openelement (http://info.sgx.com/webcoranncatth.nsf/VwAttachments/Att_18254373848B707B482578BF002C0CFE/$file/Clarify.BT.article_2011-06-30.pdf?openelement)
SIM LIAN GROUP LIMITED
(Company Registration No. 200004760C)
CLARIFICATION OF BUSINESS TIMES ARTICLE PUBLISHED ON 30 JUNE 2011
The Board of Directors of Sim Lian Group Limited (the “Company”) refers to the Business Times article entitled “Profit margins for DBSS developers ‘look high’” published on 30 June 2011 and wishes to clarify that the land price of $82,222,000 and the maximum GFA of
721,188 square feet for our project Centrale 8 are incorrect and therefore the profit and gross profit margin are correspondingly incorrect.
The land price for Centrale 8 is $178,128,000 as stated in our announcement no. 112 of 3 August 2010 and the maximum permissible Gross Floor Area is 682,384.9 square feet as stated in our announcement no. 164 of 6 August 2010.
By Order of the Board
Ang Lay Hua
Company Secretary
Sim Lian Group Limited
30 June 2011
thomastansb
01-07-11, 23:35
This is not what I am trying to say. My point is that Singaporeans are fussy. 33% rejected when they are given a choice. That is the main point.
Think the new balloting system takes into consideration the number of times a balloter rejects. Those who reject before will be behind in priority as compared with those who haven't rejected. The highest priorities goes to those who were unsuccessful in their previous attempts! :D
thomastansb
01-07-11, 23:37
Suddenly, it is everyone else fault for you not earning enough
:doh:
Thats only IF you dont have a family or any elderly parents to take care, and you dont believe you ever need to have a retirement plan.
http://mndsingapore.wordpress.com/2011/07/02/startling-but-false/
Startling But False
I was startled when I read the front page article in the Business Times “Profit margins for DBSS developers ‘look high’ ” (Jun 30). It alleged that the DBSS developer’s profit margin for Centrale 8 was 76%, even after it had reduced its highest selling price by over $100,000.
I thought it could not be right and had it checked. Sure enough, the article was fraught with serious errors.
For example, it quoted a land price of $82,222,000 and a maximum GFA of 721,188 square feet for the project. Both figures were wrong. The correct figures were respectively $178,128,000 and 682,385 square feet. This was a huge difference of almost $100 million. The errors led to a gross over-estimation by BT of the developer’s profit and gross profit margin.
Based on these figures alone, the profit margin would have been 26%, not 76%.
But even the reduced figure was wrong, as the article had excluded key cost items such as financing, marketing and administrative costs. These are significant costs and when included, would have further lowered the profit margin for all the DBSS projects listed in the article.
I have been in MND for 5 weeks, and not sleeping well. I am working my guts out to try to calm the market, for the good of all Singaporeans.
But I can’t do it alone. I need all to help.
HDB architects are working round the clock to ramp up BTO supply. Contractors are building up capacity to deliver the flats on time. HDB is setting BTO prices carefully to help guide the market.
I hope our media can do their part too. There is some panic buying out there, by people worried that prices will continue to rise. Sensationalised articles will merely feed the frenzy.
If only BT had verified the facts, the misleading article could have been avoided. Please help to circulate this blog to your friends.
linchong84
02-07-11, 09:52
I thought it could not be right and had it checked. Sure enough, the article was fraught with serious errors.
For example, it quoted a land price of $82,222,000 and a maximum GFA of 721,188 square feet for the project. Both figures were wrong. The correct figures were respectively $178,128,000 and 682,385 square feet. This was a huge difference of almost $100 million. The errors led to a gross over-estimation by BT of the developer’s profit and gross profit margin.
Based on these figures alone, the profit margin would have been 26%, not 76%.
WAH super own goal.. The BT journalist was trying to help KBW by stating the land sales figure wrongly at 82mil.. Why KBW go and score own goal by correcting it and state that govt actually pocketed more than double at 178mil??!!
He came out with quote of the year "DBSS is not HDB" just one week ago.. Now score own goal of the year.. :doh: :scared-1: :scared-4: :eek:
Allthepies
02-07-11, 10:03
Thanks for clarifying the situation!
Think it is long overdue tat something must be done when people anyhow post stories in the newspaper or internet without verifying the data. It is rather serious if u think about it when false information is published in the mass media especially in mainstream newspapers.:2cents:
so easy to trick Mr Khaw to score own goal?
Next, a journalist will write article saying HDB construction cost only $50k for 5room and SLA land cost only $10k.
Mr Khaw will correct the journalist by giving actual figures. No need for opposition to ask in Parliament :D.
kingkong1984
02-07-11, 12:26
No lah, out the whack developers but kana whacked by developers back.
Haha, interesting.
so easy to trick Mr Khaw to score own goal?
Next, a journalist will write article saying HDB construction cost only $50k for 5room and SLA land cost only $10k.
Mr Khaw will correct the journalist by giving actual figures. No need for opposition to ask in Parliament :D.2011 the year of own goals.... :D
So what will be HDB's profits if the plot were BTO instead of DBSS?:beats-me-man:
BTO construction cost about $82M? :2cents:
WAH super own goal.. The BT journalist was trying to help KBW by stating the land sales figure wrongly at 82mil.. Why KBW go and score own goal by correcting it and state that govt actually pocketed more than double at 178mil??!!
He came out with quote of the year "DBSS is not HDB" just one week ago.. Now score own goal of the year.. :doh: :scared-1: :scared-4: :eek:
So what will be HDB's profits if the plot were BTO instead of DBSS?:beats-me-man:
BTO construction cost about $82M? :2cents:Go on and publish this on the papers or something and KBW will eagerly respond by pointing out all the flaws and will then reveal all those figures you want to know! :p
linchong84
02-07-11, 22:50
Dunno what he's doing man.. I think he too shag liao.. He's as good as saying 'developer only make 20+% profits, NOT 70+%.. That 50+% difference is govt's profits ok!! You think govt make money lesser than developers meh?! We are the winners! We rock!'
Yes yes strange guy... he was supposed to be so so upset by Sim Lian for jacking the DBSS prices so high but instead of getting back at them, he go and rescue them from the potential public onslaught by throwing himself and his team into the fire. :confused: Would anyone studying psychology care to explain his strange actions? :D
"For example, it quoted a land price of $82,222,000 and a maximum GFA of 721,188 square feet for the project. Both figures were wrong. The correct figures were respectively $178,128,000 and 682,385 square feet."
Based on above figure, that means the land in Tampines was sold by govt to Sim Lian at S$261.04 psf.
If it is a normal HDB BTO flat, I guess the costs of building a 5rm HDB flat of size 1100 sqft is = S$452k (assume $150 psf to build the HDB flat bare-bone, inclusive of all marketing costs etc). Is that the price they sell for HDB BTO flat in Tampines? How that figures balloons to $788k? :confused:
The BT quoted construction costs are S$144.2376m or S$200 psf. That is for full furnishing (which adds another $50 psf, which is a bit on low side - probably construction costs + marketing costs etc only $120 psf?).
Dunno what he's doing man.. I think he too shag liao.. He's as good as saying 'developer only make 20+% profits, NOT 70+%.. That 50+% difference is govt's profits ok!! You think govt make money lesser than developers meh?! We are the winners! We rock!'
"For example, it quoted a land price of $82,222,000 and a maximum GFA of 721,188 square feet for the project. Both figures were wrong. The correct figures were respectively $178,128,000 and 682,385 square feet."
Based on above figure, that means the land in Tampines was sold by govt to Sim Lian at S$261.04 psf.
If it is a normal HDB BTO flat, I guess the costs of building a 5rm HDB flat of size 1100 sqft is = S$452k (assume $150 psf to build the HDB flat bare-bone, inclusive of all marketing costs etc). Is that the price they sell for HDB BTO flat in Tampines? How that figures balloons to $788k? :confused:
The BT quoted construction costs are S$144.2376m or S$200 psf. That is for full furnishing (which adds another $50 psf, which is a bit on low side - probably construction costs + marketing costs etc only $120 psf?).All these figures are not fully verified so cannot believe full scale! Well it certainly shows that the biggest losers are those who bought DBSS from them. Both the govt and the developer take in handsome profit at the expense of buyers... :doh:
linchong84
02-07-11, 23:42
"For example, it quoted a land price of $82,222,000 and a maximum GFA of 721,188 square feet for the project. Both figures were wrong. The correct figures were respectively $178,128,000 and 682,385 square feet."
Based on above figure, that means the land in Tampines was sold by govt to Sim Lian at S$261.04 psf.
If it is a normal HDB BTO flat, I guess the costs of building a 5rm HDB flat of size 1100 sqft is = S$452k (assume $150 psf to build the HDB flat bare-bone, inclusive of all marketing costs etc). Is that the price they sell for HDB BTO flat in Tampines? How that figures balloons to $788k? :confused:
The BT quoted construction costs are S$144.2376m or S$200 psf. That is for full furnishing (which adds another $50 psf, which is a bit on low side - probably construction costs + marketing costs etc only $120 psf?).
This one is DBSS, not BTO.. Land sales 260psf, construction and marketing and finance 240psf.. Breakeven 500psf, but they sell at around 550-600psf.. So they earn 50-100psf while govt earns 260psf land sales..
This one is DBSS, not BTO.. Land sales 260psf, construction and marketing and finance 240psf.. Breakeven 500psf, but they sell at around 550-600psf.. So they earn 50-100psf while govt earns 260psf land sales..KBW shot himself again! Govt earn so much from DBSS and to think that this is a special type of HDB which is designed to provide affordable housing to the people of Singapore? Hmmm... :doh:
it is one of the many tier of public housing for different group of income earners to ensure minimal competition within any single housing type!
devilplate
03-07-11, 00:34
Dunno what he's doing man.. I think he too shag liao.. He's as good as saying 'developer only make 20+% profits, NOT 70+%.. That 50+% difference is govt's profits ok!! You think govt make money lesser than developers meh?! We are the winners! We rock!'
Where is jadey tat post a qn y hdb so generous letting developer to make huge profit? Hehe:D
Where is jadey tat post a qn y hdb so generous letting developer to make huge profit? Hehe:DThat was before the truth was out mah... now after knowing he happy liao lor! :spliff:
The next question I assume, 'Why HDB make so much profit from public housing?' Then again KBW said DBSS is not HDB so not public housing? :doh:
There r lots of infrastructure developments in e next few years e.g. mrt, new districts. Where does e money come from? The wool comes from e sheep.
How can construction and marketing and finance be $240 psf for a HDB quality flats when the private mass market condos also costs around $250 psf to build and almost fully furnish? :confused:
Unless the costs of construction has gone up so much? Don't think so, based on the selling price of some of these new GLS launched condos.
This one is DBSS, not BTO.. Land sales 260psf, construction and marketing and finance 240psf.. Breakeven 500psf, but they sell at around 550-600psf.. So they earn 50-100psf while govt earns 260psf land sales..
linchong84
03-07-11, 14:39
How can construction and marketing and finance be $240 psf for a HDB quality flats when the private mass market condos also costs around $250 psf to build and almost fully furnish? :confused:
Unless the costs of construction has gone up so much? Don't think so, based on the selling price of some of these new GLS launched condos.
No idea.. That's what the BT article states about the construction cost (around 200psf).. I suspect SL divide its construction and developer accounts.. So although construction is stated at 200psf, but actually that's not the cost.. Cost is maybe 1xxpsf, so there are profits within for construction..
No wonder Ah Beng developers driving Lambos and Ferraris around :doh:
linchong84
03-07-11, 23:55
So do you guys think DBSS will be privatised like HUDC? If privatisation was the plan, then the prices might be reasonable or even cheap..
So do you guys think DBSS will be privatised like HUDC? If privatisation was the plan, then the prices might be reasonable or even cheap..If so, how many years to privatization? Seriously doubt it otherwise it would have been explained during the recent saga! Not the original plan but may well be the eventual plan. :spliff:
If so, how many years to privatization? Seriously doubt it otherwise it would have been explained during the recent saga! Not the original plan but may well be the eventual plan. :spliff:
Before dbss, there was design and build flats. And these resale flats are sold just like private flats. Why should there be any privatization?
Before dbss, there was design and build flats. And these resale flats are sold just like private flats. Why should there be any privatization?Last time owners more simple. Today's gen Y owners are certainly more demanding! :doh: Anyway, don't favour privatization. Its gonna open a can of worms and more demanding and ridiculous request should this be materialized! :scared-3:
DBSS flats must be privatised after 5 years like ECs. This will ensure that the Singaporeans who buy them make some profit. I dont think Singaporeans who buy these flats will complain about the high prices when they make handsome profits from the appreciation of their flats after privatization.
linchong84
04-07-11, 21:50
DBSS flats must be privatised after 5 years like ECs. This will ensure that the Singaporeans who buy them make some profit. I dont think Singaporeans who buy these flats will complain about the high prices when they make handsome profits from the appreciation of their flats after privatization.
Wah after 5 year privatisation ah?? And some are in bishan, amk, tpy.. Got such free lunch or not :D :D :D :D
Slowly wait also dun have..:spliff:
Even if really privatisation also need to wait 30 years maybe.. But i think most prob won't have cos govt got another weapon called SERS.. Got money earn themselves, why let the owners earn haha...
Anyway, the DBSS owners are all sitting on paper gain leh.. All resale units beside them are more exp (except tampines one perhaps haha).. So actually there is no need to privatise them to please owners..
Wah after 5 year privatisation ah?? And some are in bishan, amk, tpy.. Got such free lunch or not :D :D :D :D
Slowly wait also dun have..:spliff:
Even if really privatisation also need to wait 30 years maybe.. But i think most prob won't have cos govt got another weapon called SERS.. Got money earn themselves, why let the owners earn haha...
Anyway, the DBSS owners are all sitting on paper gain leh.. All resale units beside them are more exp (except tampines one perhaps haha).. So actually there is no need to privatise them to please owners..Agreed. Most DBSS projects are already sitting in enviable locations so price appreciation is guaranteed. Furthermore, from the amended reports, its already clear that this thread should be renamed as Profit margin of DBSS HDB and not developers is high... :p so they won't let the citizens gain maximum profit. :spliff:
Khaw Boon Wan suspends DBSS land sale
By Fann Sim | SingaporeScene*–*
MND suspends DBSS land sale. (AFP file photo)
Future land sales concerning the Design, Build and Sell Scheme (DBSS)*has been suspended, according to National Development Minister Khaw Boon Wan in response to queries from the public.
Replying to concerns from netizens on his Facebook page, Minister Khaw said, "I have suspended future DBSS land sales."
However, he pointed out that a few DBSS land sites sold last year -- which includes the Centrale 8 site -- will continue with the launch of their sales in the next few months, adding that the old tenders are beyond his control.
It is understood that the Housing Development Board (HDB) will also not proceed with the sale of the Bendemeer Road land parcel, which is slated for sale later this month.
When contacted by Yahoo! Singapore, the Ministry for National Development (MND) confirmed that it is reviewing the scheme as part of an overall review of housing policies and not as a result of Minister Khaw's blog post over the weekend, where he responded to the errors and inaccurate figures used in a recent Business Times (BT) article.
KBW is reading our complaints and taking proactive actions... good good... unlike his predecessor who just say I've heard your complaints BUT... :doh:
i am interested in who he sell to after suspending it, especially the Bendemeer/Boon keng site. Build PC or BTO?
If BTO & at what price? Price too low than the 1st DBSS owners KPKB, paid a super premium over 'furnishing'.
If gap too near, BTO owners to be KPKB why price so high.
If build PC, BTO/DBSS hopefuls KPKB.
KBW pls keep blogging. :D :D
linchong84
05-07-11, 14:42
i am interested in who he sell to after suspending it, especially the Bendemeer/Boon keng site. Build PC or BTO?
If BTO & at what price? Price too low than the 1st DBSS owners KPKB, paid a super premium over 'furnishing'.
If gap too near, BTO owners to be KPKB why price so high.
If price low, he will make around 700 owners angry but earn the applause of millions of singaporeans.
If price high, millions of people will curse him and demand him to state whether HDB is profitering from BTO sales.. While the 700 owners are happy.
Which one do you think is more worth it?
Regulators
05-07-11, 15:11
What so good? already making a boo boo by not checking the prices before allowing the dbss units to be launched for sale :doh:
KBW is reading our complaints and taking proactive actions... good good... unlike his predecessor who just say I've heard your complaints BUT... :doh:
linchong84
05-07-11, 15:17
What so good? already making a boo boo by not checking the prices before allowing the dbss units to be launched for sale :doh:
He has no power to stop. If SL launched 5 room DBSS at 1mil, KBW also cant do anything. This is free market once the land is tendered out. If govt tried to control price, it will send a very negative signal to investors and companies that our govt likes to intervene. KBW can't do much, but hecan blog abt it.
Regulators
05-07-11, 15:41
Then hdb under him or the previous mbt made a boo boo in their contract with the developer allowing them to profit obscenely from hdb flats. Either way you look at it, those helming hdb made a boo boo. The free market reasoning is just an excuse :doh:
He has no power to stop. If SL launched 5 room DBSS at 1mil, KBW also cant do anything. This is free market once the land is tendered out. If govt tried to control price, it will send a very negative signal to investors and companies that our govt likes to intervene. KBW can't do much, but hecan blog abt it.
Then hdb under him or the previous mbt made a boo boo in their contract with the developer allowing them to profit obscenely from hdb flats. Either way you look at it, those helming hdb made a boo boo. The free market reasoning is just an excuse :doh:So now no choice he has to review the DBS scheme in order to assure people he's listening to them... :o
Ah Lian basically screwed all the other developers and forcing the gahmen to review DBSS.
Regulators
05-07-11, 15:57
That is the problem with our leadership, all our ministers never take personal accountability, always rectifying when mistakes are made, just like the numerous floods in orchard then the minister starts to wake up. They liken their roles to top CEOs, but their standard have fallen short of that by a far margin. If like that, anyone can also be a minister coz our leaders are after all so prone to mistakes despite being the highest paid in the world :doh:
So now no choice he has to review the DBS scheme in order to assure people he's listening to them... :o
linchong84
05-07-11, 16:07
Ah Lian basically screwed all the other developers and forcing the gahmen to review DBSS.
SL won't be the last one. Clementi, bedok and pasir ris dbss all yet to be launched yet but their land bids are higher if I'm not wrong. Esp the pasir ris one, it recently broke record for dbss land bid at around 300psf.. So that one confirm will see 880k 5 room flat liao.. Right at the outskirts of OCR haha.. Now u all know why ocr pte huat so much.. Maybe it's becos of these dbss providing strong support haha..
SL won't be the last one. Clementi, bedok and pasir ris dbss all yet to be launched yet but their land bids are higher if I'm not wrong. Esp the pasir ris one, it recently broke record for dbss land bid at around 300psf.. So that one confirm will see 880k 5 room flat liao.. Right at the outskirts of OCR haha.. Now u all know why ocr pte huat so much.. Maybe it's becos of these dbss providing strong support haha..The developers of these remaining dbss sites must be cursing and swearing.... if they launch high, they'll sure kana slammed like crazy but if they launch low, they'll make huge losses... best solution is to hold those launches and see what KBW has to say after his review! :o
Regulators
05-07-11, 16:29
it should be included in the contracts between hdb and these developers a price guideline for the flats and developers should not exceed that. Mbt made a boo boo of that and now that the contracts have been signed, the people have to pay the price. For kbw to later say that dbss is not hdb is just his desperate attempt to salvage the situation that cannot be salvaged since developers and hdb have already inked the contracts months and months ago. A boo boo is a boo boo and this will certainly jack up prices of private property further, not cool the market down. many who ajay own multiple properties have nothing to lose, just that kbw will probably pay the price in the next election if he doesn't play it right
linchong84
05-07-11, 16:40
The developers of these remaining dbss sites must be cursing and swearing.... if they launch high, they'll sure kana slammed like crazy but if they launch low, they'll make huge losses... best solution is to hold those launches and see what KBW has to say after his review! :o
Nope. If they hold the launches they are dead. KBW might make decision to launch those identified DBSS sites as BTOs at a cheaper rate.. So who will still want to buy dbss.. So, before the review is done, the developers should quickly launch while they still can sell.. They can market this way "dbss is going extinct soon! Grab it while it's still available! Otherwise no more new public housing in mature estates!!"
Ah Lian foolishly priced ahead of the market, anticipating the income ceiling to be raised to $10K soon. Now, when EC income ceiling is raised to $12K, how do you think the developers will price? If EC is priced higher due to higher income ceiling, how do you think OCR prices will react?
EC is not HDB, hahaha.:D
Mistake. DBSS income ceiling oredi $10K.
Which one do you think is more worth it?
only he knows & he can even evaluate if his pay is worth such a hot seat. Now i am also having sleepless night waiting for his next move. :cheers1:
agree with fclim, just to please a few & hdb raised the income ceiling, now see what happened.
Regulators
09-07-11, 23:43
Didn't I say that HDB did not draft their contracts with developers to protect buyer's interests sufficiently? Look at the boo boo on page A20 of today's Sraits Times. HDB should have ensured that a clause is included stating that a contract would be null and void and buyers do not meet the eligibility criteria and not allow developers to charge a 20% penalty when buyers are forced by marriage circumstances and unable to buy. :doh:
linchong84
10-07-11, 00:21
Didn't I say that HDB did not draft their contracts with developers to protect buyer's interests sufficiently? Look at the boo boo on page A20 of today's Sraits Times. HDB should have ensured that a clause is included stating that a contract would be null and void and buyers do not meet the eligibility criteria and not allow developers to charge a 20% penalty when buyers are forced by marriage circumstances and unable to buy. :doh:
Cannot null and void.. Otherwise will have loophole for buyers to exploit.. Must still have some penalties, otherwise buyers can just play punk delay marriage one year to withdraw from the purchase..
devilplate
10-07-11, 00:28
Cannot null and void.. Otherwise will have loophole for buyers to exploit.. Must still have some penalties, otherwise buyers can just play punk delay marriage one year to withdraw from the purchase..
I read tat they goto forfeit 5% if decide not to take up bto flat eventually....hmm...can amount to abt 15-20k....initially tot they only forfeit few ks....
linchong84
10-07-11, 00:33
I read tat they goto forfeit 5% if decide not to take up bto flat eventually....hmm...can amount to abt 15-20k....initially tot they only forfeit few ks....
I've a friend who forfeit 2k only.. I don't know how HDB calculate one.. Maybe depends on the time of forfeiture.. If very near to TOP, then pay more..
Regulators
10-07-11, 02:20
5% more than enough to compensate, but contract did not have this limitation, clear cut boo boo no matter how you look at it
Cannot null and void.. Otherwise will have loophole for buyers to exploit.. Must still have some penalties, otherwise buyers can just play punk delay marriage one year to withdraw from the purchase..
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