View Full Version : Tulip Garden relaunched for en bloc sale
Tulip Garden put up for collective sale (http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporebusinessnews/view/1097506/1/.html)
By Travis Teo | Posted: 06 December 2010 1529 hrs
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/imagegallery/store/phpslJZhx.jpg
SINGAPORE: Tulip Garden has been put up for collective sale. Credo Real Estate which is handling the sale said the owners of the 164-unit development, are asking for a minimum of S$650 million.
That works out to about S$3.14 million to S$5.45 million for the apartment's owners.
This tender launch is the first large scale freehold en bloc sale offering, valued above S$500 million, in 3 years.
Credo said if sold, Tulip Garden stands to be the third largest successful en bloc sale by deal value in Singapore's history, after Farrer Court and Leedon Heights.
The other two developments were both sold in 2007 for S$1.3 billion and S$835 million.
Tulip Garden has a land area of some 317,000 square feet and is zoned for residential development under the 2008 Master Plan.
It has a gross plot ratio of up to 1.6 and can be built up to 12 storeys.
At the minimum price of S$650 million, Credo said the per square foot per plot ratio works out to S$1,250.
"We would not be surprised that the highest bidder crosses $700 million," said Karamjit Singh, MD of Credo Real Estate.
Tulip Garden is located at the corner of Holland Road and Farrer Road in the prime district 10 area
The tender will close at 2.30 pm on January 20, 2011.
-CNA/ac/ls
Is anything boiling at Woollerton Park? I only see units on rental and not a single unit on sale! And the units on rental are asking at ridculously high amt! Suspect this is another potentail enbloc target as it is freehold and next to MRT!
proud owner
06-12-10, 23:37
Is anything boiling at Woollerton Park? I only see units on rental and not a single unit on sale! And the units on rental are asking at ridculously high amt! Suspect this is another potentail enbloc target as it is freehold and next to MRT!
those are super rare jumbo condo .. owners wont sell ...
devilplate
06-12-10, 23:58
Is anything boiling at Woollerton Park? I only see units on rental and not a single unit on sale! And the units on rental are asking at ridculously high amt! Suspect this is another potentail enbloc target as it is freehold and next to MRT!
22 Woollerton Park #03-28
Freehold
$1697
2357
$4000k
24 Feb 10
30 Woollerton Park #08-32
Freehold
$1392
2788
$3880k
29 Jan 10
30 Woollerton Park #03-30
Freehold
$1493
2357
$3520k
30 Nov 09
huge jump in price psf...300psf...
1700psf not cheap leh for an almost 20yo condo...u on meh?
waterfall gardens better at ard 17xxpsf?
22 Woollerton Park #03-28
Freehold
$1697
2357
$4000k
24 Feb 10
30 Woollerton Park #08-32
Freehold
$1392
2788
$3880k
29 Jan 10
30 Woollerton Park #03-30
Freehold
$1493
2357
$3520k
30 Nov 09
huge jump in price psf...300psf...
1700psf not cheap leh for an almost 20yo condo...u on meh?
waterfall gardens better at ard 17xxpsf?
Precisely it is almost 20 yo condo and FH status. Buy not for stay but potential enbloc. You want to buy also no chance as nobody is selling. I suspect all waiting for enbloc. This one is better than D'leedon.
devilplate
07-12-10, 19:31
Precisely it is almost 20 yo condo and FH status. Buy not for stay but potential enbloc. You want to buy also no chance as nobody is selling. I suspect all waiting for enbloc. This one is better than D'leedon.
avail at 1700psf i die die wun touch:p
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/news/story/0,4574,416383-1291751940,00.html?
Published December 7, 2010
Tulip Garden up for collective sale with minimum $650m price tag
TULIP Garden, a 164-unit development located just a stone's throw from the CapitaLand group's newly launched d'Leedon, has been put up for collective sale.
Marketing agents Credo Real Estate said in a press statement yesterday that the price tag is pegged at a minimum of $650 million, or about $1,250 per square foot per plot ratio (ppr).
If sold, Tulip Garden will likely be the third-largest successful en bloc sale by deal value in Singapore's history, after Farrer Court and Leedon Heights, which were both sold in 2007.
Farrer Court was sold for $1.34 billion and Leedon Heights for $835 million. All three projects are located next to each other in the Holland Road/Farrer Road area.
More than 80 per cent of the owners at Tulip Garden have already signed the collective sale agreement.
Based on the $650 million reserve price, apartment owners - whose units range in size from 1,700 sq ft to 3,400 sq ft - stand to receive between $3.14 million and $5.45 million each. The freehold Tulip Garden has a land area of 316,708 sq ft.
Under the 2008 Master Plan, it is zoned for a residential development up to a gross plot ratio of 1.6, and an allowable height of up to 12 storeys.
Credo's press release yesterday said the development baseline plot ratio of Tulip Garden is 1.6425, higher than the allowable plot ratio of 1.6.
Potential buyers can therefore enjoy some savings on the development charge payable should they build extra floor area space allowable for balconies.
The total gross floor area allowed for a new project is about 557,407 sq ft after factoring the additional 10 per cent balcony gross floor area.
The new development, which will have a breakeven price of about $1,800 per sq ft, may be configured into 400 apartments with an average size of 1,325 sq ft.
Tulip Garden, located some 500 metres from the upcoming Farrer Road MRT station, is within two kilometres of Nanyang Primary School and Raffles Girls' Primary School. The collective sale tender closes at 2.30pm on Jan 20, 2011.
louisebrown
25-01-11, 08:52
Is the deal dead?
If it is, I hope it puts to rest that 'school-yardish' screaming match in the other thread.
I think we can only safely say it's not above the RP. Maybe still in nego.
I heard Asimont was in nego but that was a couple of weeks ago - that one looks dead. Next to watch is Whitley Hts and then Hawaii Twrs.
Is the deal dead?
If it is, I hope it puts to rest that 'school-yardish' screaming match in the other thread.
Heard Asimont is negotiating with last owner so that no need to go STB with 100%.
louisebrown
26-01-11, 08:33
I think we can only safely say it's not above the RP. Maybe still in nego.
I heard Asimont was in nego but that was a couple of weeks ago - that one looks dead. Next to watch is Whitley Hts and then Hawaii Twrs.
I see. But the tender only closed on 20 Jan 2011.
U mean the tender has flopped and so a buyer is negotiating on the sidelines, like a failed auction?
Is the deal dead?
If it is, I hope it puts to rest that 'school-yardish' screaming match in the other thread.
The beauty of this area is that there will always be developers who will be interested to buy this place. Likewise, there will be many naysayers who pretend that its a lousy, faux D10 and try to talk down this area.
While I'm vested both in Farrer and Mt Sinai, I also believe there are other areas/ regions worth investing eg Marina Bay area, Keppel Bay/ Sentosa, Orchard. For those with lower budget and lower risk appetite, go for OCRs, no problem with that. I like these area mainly because I grew up in these area and also the need to be near my children's schools. In that sense, the proximity to schools over-rides investment returns, although returns is still an important of coz.
1 of my condo has tried many times to enbloc but a significant number of us refuse to sell the place cheap. And with talks of enbloc going on, some agents used it to their advantage by getting people to buy into the enbloc story. But because the average price keeps going up with each new buyer, it gets harder as these new comers demand a higher price than the earlier buyers. Some of my neighbours who originally bought for enbloc profits now grew to like the place so much so that one spent $300k recently to overhaul the place and voted nay to enbloc.
This is only possible if the condo is inherently attractive to begin with and its no coincidence that its proximity to Henry Park Pri School attracts locals either to rent or buy this place.
End of the day, if this round fails, the pest will still be back to hound the owners to enbloc because its still bluechip, regardless of the school-yardish children shouts and claims. And I will bring up my Baygon and ask them to come back to me when they need my signature to reach 80% or 100% and negotiate `special deals' with them.
I never believe in enbloc and will never support enbloc.
reported that not a single bid was received.
there were some private discussions though...
HP65, nice post. it's no coincidence the top 2 enblocs so far are all around here. I'm not vested in either, but I do believe this is a nice area.
Btw with the railway officially dead, I believe Mt Sinai area will be even more attractive.
HP65, nice post. it's no coincidence the top 2 enblocs so far are all around here. I'm not vested in either, but I do believe this is a nice area.
Btw with the railway officially dead, I believe Mt Sinai area will be even more attractive.
Thx Amk, its a charming place indeed. imo, the railway doesnt really impact Mt Sinai negatively . If anything, I think only some units of Glentrees and landed are affected by the trains.
stalingrad
27-01-11, 16:41
reported that not a single bid was received.
there were some private discussions though...
this just proved my point. the farrer area has nothing to offer, except traffic jam and HDB. :D
this just proved my point. the farrer area has nothing to offer, except traffic jam and HDB. :D
farrer, not the apuneh one, is always attractive and will be even more attractive now that CCL is there
At price tag of $650mil for this enbloc, not many developers are able to dig deep enough to commit; only a few; but they will also wait and see how sentiments pent out. Farrer is always attractive. MRT is running soon this year.
this just proved my point. the farrer area has nothing to offer, except traffic jam and HDB. :D
Why farrer no good? So tulip garden enblo dead?
At price tag of $650mil for this enbloc, not many developers are able to dig deep enough to commit; only a few; but they will also wait and see how sentiments pent out. Farrer is always attractive. MRT is running soon this year.
capland just bought marine point enbloc
all enblocs post financial crisis have been smaller scale in the range of 100+ mil or less.. evidence that developers are playing safe. looks like big enblocs e.g. tulip, laguna, pine grove etc all got to wait long long
capland just bought marine point enbloc
all enblocs post financial crisis have been smaller scale in the range of 100+ mil or less.. evidence that developers are playing safe. looks like big enblocs e.g. tulip, laguna, pine grove etc all got to wait long long
Ya, saw the news. MM developers go for $50m enbloc, larger ones may stretched to $100m+, all play safe 1st, wait & see attitude now
also no bid received for Hawaii Towers ($700m)
some private discussions though
So tulip and Hawaii no buyers? Developers are also cautious I guess..... But I thought tulip garden en bloc price is very reasonable.... anyone know why no buyer?
So tulip and Hawaii no buyers? Developers are also cautious I guess..... But I thought tulip garden en bloc price is very reasonable.... anyone know why no buyer?
I think the two recently TOP projects at Meyer are under water could be one of the reasons
So tulip and Hawaii no buyers? Developers are also cautious I guess..... But I thought tulip garden en bloc price is very reasonable.... anyone know why no buyer?
probably cos D'Leedon not doing so well...
So tulip and Hawaii no buyers? Developers are also cautious I guess..... But I thought tulip garden en bloc price is very reasonable.... anyone know why no buyer?
At $650m, one can rule out the medium and surely the small size developers who won't want to put all their bets on 1 project, certainly not now when cooling measure just been introduced. That leave a handful big time developers who have the financial might, but timing not good- all of them look, look see see for now. CapitaLand already have the D'leedon to sell, don't think they will be so hero to go grab this enbloc now. All about timing.
So tulip and Hawaii no buyers? Developers are also cautious I guess..... But I thought tulip garden en bloc price is very reasonable.... anyone know why no buyer?
tulip location slightly inferior than d'leedon, plot ratio also smaller
tulip location slightly inferior than d'leedon, plot ratio also smaller
Ya, Tulip plot ratio is 1.6 but FH, corner plot of major road junction(farrer & holland road) while d'leedon is LH, plot ratio is 2.8
proud owner
05-02-11, 23:09
Ya, Tulip plot ratio is 1.6 but FH, corner plot of major road junction(farrer & holland road) while d'leedon is LH, plot ratio is 2.8
any idea how ura/govt determines the plot ratio for each and every location/parcel ?
At $650m, one can rule out the medium and surely the small size developers who won't want to put all their bets on 1 project, certainly not now when cooling measure just been introduced. That leave a handful big time developers who have the financial might, but timing not good- all of them look, look see see for now. CapitaLand already have the D'leedon to sell, don't think they will be so hero to go grab this enbloc now. All about timing.
Agree.... But at this current price tulip is cheap.... If they wait for dleedon and lee don residences to sell out then tulip owners will want ,ore money and the whole cycle starts again... Anyway developer is in it for the long haul... The earliest they can launch the project aft enbloc is also 1.5years, by then
All the units at farrer area will almost sell out....
I also agree that tulip a bit inferior to dleedon, but it's freehold and the architect still can face the units towards the GCB area and hence not noisy plus still can have holland and lee don road entrance so there is a way to overcome the limitation of the land....
I personally feel that tulip is an ok buy..... Owners in CCR all damn unrealistic so if ere is a reasonable piece of ccr land must grab....
A......I personally feel that tulip is an ok buy..... Owners in CCR all damn unrealistic so if ere is a reasonable piece of ccr land must grab....
Its not that owners of CCR are unrealistic, its because you said it yourself, everybody knows its rare, especially when its FH. And if you have developers like FEO who enbloc a FH development and then lease it out for 103 years to protect their future decendents, CCR owners better make sure their enbloc prices can immediately buy back a ppty in the SAME location and size and NEWER age. Otherwise, might as well continue to stay at the current location if replacement unit is SAME location, size and age. Why enbloc, go thru all the hassle of uprooting myself, losing my neighbours, finding a new place and renovation. And often times, its in fact a downgrade. I laughed when I read yesterday's article when an ex-gilman hts resident has to downgrade to Crappybelle (inferior location) and also has to suffer from noise pollution from AYE. I laughed coz it reminded me of how some stalin sing praises of his crappybelle and now a neighbour condemn it in national papers :D
It has always been my argument to enbloc committees of my condos and none has so far been able to provide a valid answer to my challenge. imo, owners are better off selling individually if they need to monetize their investment.
stalingrad
07-02-11, 13:17
Its not that owners of CCR are unrealistic, its because you said it yourself, everybody knows its rare, especially when its FH. And if you have developers like FEO who enbloc a FH development and then lease it out for 103 years to protect their future decendents, CCR owners better make sure their enbloc prices can immediately buy back a ppty in the SAME location and size and NEWER age. Otherwise, might as well continue to stay at the current location if replacement unit is SAME location, size and age. Why enbloc, go thru all the hassle of uprooting myself, losing my neighbours, finding a new place and renovation. And often times, its in fact a downgrade. I laughed when I read yesterday's article when an ex-gilman hts resident has to downgrade to Crappybelle (inferior location) and also has to suffer from noise pollution from AYE. I laughed coz it reminded me of how some stalin sing praises of his crappybelle and now a neighbour condemn it in national papers :D
It has always been my argument to enbloc committees of my condos and none has so far been able to provide a valid answer to my challenge. imo, owners are better off selling individually if they need to monetize their investment.
crappybelle or not, it is still better than your lousy the parc condo, which many regard as white HDB.
by the way, that guy in the newspaper lives on the east side of carabelle, in a block nearest to AYE. the other blocks are mostly far away from AYE and free of noise. my stack is so quiet you could hear pins drop.
How is that for a reply to you and your post? Please comment based on facts, not based on your hidden agenda. jerk!!!
proud owner
07-02-11, 13:21
Agree.... But at this current price tulip is cheap.... If they wait for dleedon and lee don residences to sell out then tulip owners will want ,ore money and the whole cycle starts again... Anyway developer is in it for the long haul... The earliest they can launch the project aft enbloc is also 1.5years, by then
All the units at farrer area will almost sell out....
I also agree that tulip a bit inferior to dleedon, but it's freehold and the architect still can face the units towards the GCB area and hence not noisy plus still can have holland and lee don road entrance so there is a way to overcome the limitation of the land....
I personally feel that tulip is an ok buy..... Owners in CCR all damn unrealistic so if ere is a reasonable piece of ccr land must grab....
hihi
are you telling buyer ? or developer? to grab if theres a reasonable piece of CCR land ?
stalingrad
07-02-11, 13:21
the farrer area in my view has nothing to offer except traffic jams and HDB. there is a HDB sea there along the whole stretch of the road.
at least at Carabelle, we have nothing but private property owners to be neighbors with.
Hi, Jerk, next time you post something please be watchful. otherwise, someone will whip your ass.
stalingrad
07-02-11, 13:22
hihi
are you telling buyer ? or developer? to grab if theres a reasonable piece of CCR land ?
of course they are. they are "vested" in this area. whatever that singlish word means.
crappybelle or not, it is still better than your lousy the parc condo, which many regard as white HDB.
by the way, that guy in the newspaper lives on the east side of carabelle, in a block nearest to AYE. the other blocks are mostly far away from AYE and free of noise. my stack is so quiet you could hear pins drop.
How is that for a reply to you and your post? Please comment based on facts, not based on your hidden agenda. jerk!!!
Crappy means crappy, don't have to be so agitated. If your neighbour's valuation (within the same development) is low, don't expect just becoz your unit faces the opposite side will be priced higher. It will be pulled down together. Now with somebody publicly complaining in national newspapers that its noisy with heavy traffic, who would dare buy crappy belle? Please national newspapers reporting is not factual, I shudder what the public is feeding on. Or are you accusing SPH for non-factual reporting? Can be sued you know :scared-1:
For that matter, I say avoid the other condos like The Parc as well if noise is a concern. Even my friend's units which are 4 and 5 blocks away from AYE also can hear the traffic noise. But it seems like the market is willing to pay more for better located, HDB looking condo than non HDB looking BUT still ugly looking, inferior location crappybelle :D So I guess no matter how lousy you think The Parc is, vs your crappybelle, it is still better and priced higher. Sad case....
PS: No, only my friends have units at The Parc. I don't. They offered to sell to me but I politely rejected it coz I have never bought outside of D9,10,4 before. Like you, I do not like The Parc, but in comparison with crappybelle, it's miles ahead and the market agrees with higher transacted prices even for big units :cheers6:
stalingrad
07-02-11, 14:46
Crappy means crappy, don't have to be so agitated. If your neighbour's valuation (within the same development) is low, don't expect just becoz your unit faces the opposite side will be priced higher. It will be pulled down together. Now with somebody publicly complaining in national newspapers that its noisy with heavy traffic, who would dare buy crappy belle? Please national newspapers reporting is not factual, I shudder what the public is feeding on. Or are you accusing SPH for non-factual reporting? Can be sued you know :scared-1:
For that matter, I say avoid the other condos like The Parc as well if noise is a concern. Even my friend's units which are 4 and 5 blocks away from AYE also can hear the traffic noise. But it seems like the market is willing to pay more for better located, HDB looking condo than non HDB looking BUT still ugly looking, inferior location crappybelle :D So I guess no matter how lousy you think The Parc is, vs your crappybelle, it is still better and priced higher. Sad case....
PS: No, only my friends have units at The Parc. I don't. They offered to sell to me but I politely rejected it coz I have never bought outside of D9,10,4 before. Like you, I do not like The Parc, but in comparison with crappybelle, it's miles ahead and the market agrees with higher transacted prices even for big units :cheers6:
Call anybody's condo anyway you like. It just show the kind of education your mother imparted on you. You were probably born by some hooker and dropped on your "mom and dad" door steps, and probably brought up in a big sty, given how dirty-mouthed you are.
while we have discussed issued in all these threads, we never call each other's condos names, unlike you. by breaking the etiquette, you have shown what kind of low life, creepy person you are.
haha, don't make me laugh by claiming that you own these D9, D10 D11 condos. you probably live under a flyover, and live on handouts by passers-by. by your english proficiency, you probably have primary school education. You are the shame of your family, and now you have become the laughing stock of the thread. :spliff:
stalingrad
07-02-11, 14:52
Crappy means crappy, don't have to be so agitated. If your neighbour's valuation (within the same development) is low, don't expect just becoz your unit faces the opposite side will be priced higher. It will be pulled down together. Now with somebody publicly complaining in national newspapers that its noisy with heavy traffic, who would dare buy crappy belle? Please national newspapers reporting is not factual, I shudder what the public is feeding on. Or are you accusing SPH for non-factual reporting? Can be sued you know :scared-1:
For that matter, I say avoid the other condos like The Parc as well if noise is a concern. Even my friend's units which are 4 and 5 blocks away from AYE also can hear the traffic noise. But it seems like the market is willing to pay more for better located, HDB looking condo than non HDB looking BUT still ugly looking, inferior location crappybelle :D So I guess no matter how lousy you think The Parc is, vs your crappybelle, it is still better and priced higher. Sad case....
PS: No, only my friends have units at The Parc. I don't. They offered to sell to me but I politely rejected it coz I have never bought outside of D9,10,4 before. Like you, I do not like The Parc, but in comparison with crappybelle, it's miles ahead and the market agrees with higher transacted prices even for big units :cheers6:
and dear old arse, if noise is your concern, why don't you live in a coffin under three feet of dirt. the place, called a tomb, is the quietest in the whole world. jerk!!!! asshole!!!!
proud owner
07-02-11, 15:08
Crappy means crappy, don't have to be so agitated. If your neighbour's valuation (within the same development) is low, don't expect just becoz your unit faces the opposite side will be priced higher. It will be pulled down together. Now with somebody publicly complaining in national newspapers that its noisy with heavy traffic, who would dare buy crappy belle? Please national newspapers reporting is not factual, I shudder what the public is feeding on. Or are you accusing SPH for non-factual reporting? Can be sued you know :scared-1:
For that matter, I say avoid the other condos like The Parc as well if noise is a concern. Even my friend's units which are 4 and 5 blocks away from AYE also can hear the traffic noise. But it seems like the market is willing to pay more for better located, HDB looking condo than non HDB looking BUT still ugly looking, inferior location crappybelle :D So I guess no matter how lousy you think The Parc is, vs your crappybelle, it is still better and priced higher. Sad case....
PS: No, only my friends have units at The Parc. I don't. They offered to sell to me but I politely rejected it coz I have never bought outside of D9,10,4 before. Like you, I do not like The Parc, but in comparison with crappybelle, it's miles ahead and the market agrees with higher transacted prices even for big units :cheers6:
hey
happy new year ...
my friend has 2 units at Seafront (meyer ) ...15 and 20 flr complain very noisy ...
jialat
Any units facing highway or main road pls press pass, except next to MRT station.
Apply to own stay only IMHO
Don't understand why you so worked up as to hurl personal attack & abuse?
We are talking about condos! If every condo is good, which is bad? Ok hope all condos sell at $5,000 psf you happy? :p
You can judge a person's education level, background, wealth by their proficiency in English writing? :doh:
Ok ok, those translators and English majors are all BILLIONAIRES! Oh yes, you ANG MO CANADIAN right? You also BILLIONAIRE since your English must be tua kong! :D
Call anybody's condo anyway you like. It just show the kind of education your mother imparted on you. You were probably born by some hooker and dropped on your "mom and dad" door steps, and probably brought up in a big sty, given how dirty-mouthed you are.
while we have discussed issued in all these threads, we never call each other's condos names, unlike you. by breaking the etiquette, you have shown what kind of low life, creepy person you are.
haha, don't make me laugh by claiming that you own these D9, D10 D11 condos. you probably live under a flyover, and live on handouts by passers-by. by your english proficiency, you probably have primary school education. You are the shame of your family, and now you have become the laughing stock of the thread. :spliff:
stalingrad
07-02-11, 15:22
is he 65 years old, as his nick indicates? what a nightmare to have such persons lurking around posting unpleasant messages in a very self-righteous way. :simmering:
By the way, what is the threshold distance hah? Say face expressway, if >1km(?) away should be quite ok? <500m(?) a big NO-NO?
Face main road, say if >200m(?) should be Ok? 50m(?) a big NO-NO?
Any units facing highway or main road pls press pass, except next to MRT station
stalingrad
07-02-11, 15:24
teddy, not today. we can endure only one jerk per day.
HP65? May be he born in 1965?
I think his posting is quite Ok, at least no personal attack and abuse, much better than many you know who. :p
is he 65 years old, as his nick indicates? what a nightmare to have such persons lurking around posting unpleasant messages in a very self-righteous way. :simmering:
stalingrad
07-02-11, 15:33
HP65? May be he born in 1965?
I think his posting is quite Ok, at least no personal attack and abuse, much better than many you know who. :p
so calling my condo a dirty name is not a personal attack.
if you are so nonchallant about what people call your condos, why don't both of you reveal where you live? at least tell us which overpasses you guys live under.:simmering:
by the way, I have not been you enemy. I made fun of you, but I have never dealt with you harshly. not smart of you to cross me. :simmering:
Regulators
07-02-11, 15:39
I am very surprised a loud hailer like you can teach other forumers what to do. You are the number #1 forum attacker in condosingapore.com and you go around telling people not to get so worked up, making my toes laugh till they almost drop. :doh:
Don't understand why you so worked up as to hurl personal attack & abuse?
stalingrad
07-02-11, 15:43
hahaha, I laughed so hard I had to bend down to pick up my fallen toes. hahaha. teddy you are getting yours.
and dear old arse, if noise is your concern, why don't you live in a coffin under three feet of dirt. the place, called a tomb, is the quietest in the whole world. jerk!!!! asshole!!!!
:scared-2:
Wow, coming from the master who invented subjective condo condemnation except crappybelle....pls lah, get a grip of yourself. You want facts, I give you facts. After giving you objective national printed facts (he is after all a fellow resident of your crappybelle), you bring up 3 generation grandfather, grandmother stories when you can't dispute the facts.
The reason why I'm bringing up this issue of noise and dust and traffic woes is because i think you loved to condemn projects along pasir panjang, citing how noisy and polluted that area is whereas how peaceful and serene your crappybelle is. Well, I guess there is no disputing now crappybelle is not much better.
Pss....I didnt buy The Parc is also because of the above reasons...ie i feel its similarly polluted and the location is not excellent imo. BUT....and this is the key, its still better than crappybelle.
stalingrad
07-02-11, 15:48
:scared-2:
Wow, coming from the master who invented subjective condo condemnation except crappybelle....pls lah, get a grip of yourself. You want facts, I give you facts. After giving you objective national printed facts (he is after all a fellow resident of your crappybelle), you bring up 3 generation grandfather, grandmother stories when you can't dispute the facts.
The reason why I'm bringing up this issue of noise and dust and traffic woes is because i think you loved to condemn projects along pasir panjang, citing how noisy and polluted that area is whereas how peaceful and serene your crappybelle is. Well, I guess there is no disputing now crappybelle is not much better.
Pss....I didnt buy The Parc is also because of the above reasons...ie i feel its similarly polluted and the location is not excellent imo. BUT....and this is the key, its still better than crappybelle.
nothing compares with your place in terms of quietness cuz you live under 3 feet of dirt. you old ghost. or better, you old fart.
by the way, you can comment anyway you want, as long as you don't degenerate into name calling. what is wrong with saying there are problems associated with certain condos. what is wrong with saying that the parc condo is the ugliest condo bar none. but calling condos some dirty names is entirely below the belt.
what if I call your condo hookerville? how would you feel? old fart!!!
hey
happy new year ...
my friend has 2 units at Seafront (meyer ) ...15 and 20 flr complain very noisy ...
jialat
Happy CNY too!
ECP condos are a strange lot. Many people are willing to endure the noise here and pay high price for the condos. There is a charm in the east and somehow a lot of Singaporeans are willing to overlook the noise from ECP traffic.
In addition, D15 is really quite near to town.
But I believe your friend will not have problems renting them out. My company just hired a Risk Manager from UK. I went to view a couple of units along ECP, Holland/ Bukit Timah, River Valley. In the end he chose Aaltos over Trillium, Waterfall Gdns, Cascadia, Six Ave Residences. He is paying $8.5k for a 3 bedder high floor unit. He said the noise is not an issue for him, he will just close the door and windows and turn on the aircon.
As for own stay, hard to say. I cannot tahan noise but I have a buddy who stayed at Mandarin Gardens all his life and he said the noise don't bother him anymore. He even sleeps with windows open :sleep:
nothing compares with your place in terms of quietness cuz you live under 3 feet of dirt. you old ghost. or better, you old fart.
by the way, you can comment anyway you want, as long as you don't degenerate into name calling. what is wrong with saying there are problems associated with certain condos. what is wrong with saying that the parc condo is the ugliest condo bar none. but calling condos some dirty names is entirely below the belt.
what if I call your condo hookerville? how would you feel? old fart!!!
Stalin, think about it, I don't even care when you call me names, you think I give a hoot what names you call my condo?
I'm just giving you a taste of your own medicine. The way you condemn all other condos around Singapore save for crappybelle. You make it sound like your place is heaven on earth in comparison with all other condos in Singapore. Even though I do not own any of the condos you condemn (at least not from those posts I read from you), I can't help but feel your comments are just so subjective and 1-sided. Its a forum for sharing, as you so strongly advocate, so here I am following in your example :D
You also criticized singaporeans a lot, i think along the line for not being able to accept criticisms. Well, i guess you have assimilated into our culture already: Close to crimson, becomes red, close to black ink, becomes black. Otherwise the door is wide open and leave this country. It has no place for freeloaders like you.
hihi
are you telling buyer ? or developer? to grab if theres a reasonable piece of CCR land ?
I am referring to developer...
It seem like I cannot get feedback on whether tulip price is reasonable... Guys if you wanna bitch start a new thread called 'personal attack' and post all your personal attack there....
It seem like I cannot get feedback on whether tulip price is reasonable... Guys if you wanna bitch start a new thread called 'personal attack' and post all your personal attack there....
cute....:)
stalingrad
07-02-11, 20:06
Stalin, think about it, I don't even care when you call me names, you think I give a hoot what names you call my condo?
I'm just giving you a taste of your own medicine. The way you condemn all other condos around Singapore save for crappybelle. You make it sound like your place is heaven on earth in comparison with all other condos in Singapore. Even though I do not own any of the condos you condemn (at least not from those posts I read from you), I can't help but feel your comments are just so subjective and 1-sided. Its a forum for sharing, as you so strongly advocate, so here I am following in your example :D
You also criticized singaporeans a lot, i think along the line for not being able to accept criticisms. Well, i guess you have assimilated into our culture already: Close to crimson, becomes red, close to black ink, becomes black. Otherwise the door is wide open and leave this country. It has no place for freeloaders like you.
who is a freeloader? you think that your country will pay me this load of cash every month because I don't contribute? I think you underestimate your government's ability to make the best of our talent. haha, as always, jerk!!!! asshole!!! your mother would be ashamed of you and your manners.
It seem like I cannot get feedback on whether tulip price is reasonable...
if the credo calculation is believable, 1250 psf is not expensive, but neither is it cheap. To break even it has to do it at 1800 to 2k. Right in front waterfall gardens barely doing 1800. And there are so much supply in the area now. Yes developer can take it now and launch later. But this business is capital intensive. Developers also have interest cost. It would rather pay higher later with a favorable market condition, than pay now and pray 2yrs later mkt still strong.
who is a freeloader? you think that your country will pay me this load of cash every month because I don't contribute? I think you underestimate your government's ability to make the best of our talent. haha, as always, jerk!!!! asshole!!! your mother would be ashamed of you and your manners.
Indeed, I have seen numerous freeloaders who do not add value to Singapore like you which is why I have feedback to ICA to tighten the approval criteria for PRs and re-entry permit :scared-1:
As for those PRs who has already taken citizenship, congrats!
Btw, my mom pat my back when she saw how I retort your weak argument :spliff2:
Seriously, you should examine the matter between your ears....I'm appalled at the kind of posts you conjure, reflects on your inability to control yourself, even in front of a computer screen. That's why without even asking what sort of contribution you made to Singapore, I rather thrash like you be barred from entering Singapore. No wonder the quality of FTs has gone down the doldrums...
if the credo calculation is believable, 1250 psf is not expensive, but neither is it cheap. To break even it has to do it at 1800 to 2k. Right in front waterfall gardens barely doing 1800. And there are so much supply in the area now. Yes developer can take it now and launch later. But this business is capital intensive. Developers also have interest cost. It would rather pay higher later with a favorable market condition, than pay now and pray 2yrs later mkt still strong.
Good point, share the same view. It's about timing, at present, big time developers not prepared to buy now and park for 1-2 hrs years then launch..
So you mean they rather buy higher when the luxury high end market boom? Developers do land bank somwhy not buy now? Plus its reasonable pricing? Anyway no matter how fastnthe enbloc processnthat, the developer will need at least 1-2 years to make the enbloc site launch ready.....
So I am surprised, coz in 2 years, the pricing sure can support...
Somwhy don you think they don't buy? Maybe they think property prices will drop? :scared-3:
stalingrad
08-02-11, 08:59
Indeed, I have seen numerous freeloaders who do not add value to Singapore like you which is why I have feedback to ICA to tighten the approval criteria for PRs and re-entry permit :scared-1:
As for those PRs who has already taken citizenship, congrats!
Btw, my mom pat my back when she saw how I retort your weak argument :spliff2:
Seriously, you should examine the matter between your ears....I'm appalled at the kind of posts you conjure, reflects on your inability to control yourself, even in front of a computer screen. That's why without even asking what sort of contribution you made to Singapore, I rather thrash like you be barred from entering Singapore. No wonder the quality of FTs has gone down the doldrums...
haha, go ahead. you are just a minor accountant with no status in the country to speak of. you think that the government would give a hoot as to what you have to say?
jerk, moron, and asshole all rolled into one.
"gone down the doldrum?" that is a choice piece of singlish. I guess that is why foreign talent is needed here. to correct your gibberish.
Geylang OKT
08-02-11, 09:01
Honest mistake, let's move on :D
stalingrad
08-02-11, 09:32
Honest mistake, let's move on :D
no, we cannot move on until this jerk is taught a lesson and back off. he has been hounding me since god knows when, all because I am a foreigner. there are a lot of people that point up the shortcomings of many condos and no one hounds them like this jerk HP65 old fart has hounded me. He has bias against foreigners.
but we are not afraid of jerks like him. HP65, you want a fight, you got it.
So you mean they rather buy higher when the luxury high end market boom? Developers do land bank somwhy not buy now? Plus its reasonable pricing? Anyway no matter how fastnthe enbloc processnthat, the developer will need at least 1-2 years to make the enbloc site launch ready.....
So I am surprised, coz in 2 years, the pricing sure can support...
So why you think they don't buy? Maybe they think property prices will drop? :scared-3:
Any comments?
So you mean they rather buy higher when the luxury high end market boom? Developers do land bank somwhy not buy now? Plus its reasonable pricing? Anyway no matter how fastnthe enbloc processnthat, the developer will need at least 1-2 years to make the enbloc site launch ready.....
So I am surprised, coz in 2 years, the pricing sure can support...
Somwhy don you think they don't buy? Maybe they think property prices will drop? :scared-3:
It's about price, timing, even if want to buy for landbank, there is a cost to holding this landbank - need to raise funds, cash, pay interest, etc. CapitaLand already sweating on the d'Leedon, another 1k+ units to sell. Who else have the might to come in? FEO? CDL? FCL? or Ho Bee team up with MCL again? Developers with the mu$cle for S$650mil with cooling measures just implemented, not many. Developers also have to check their other projects on hand, cashflow, etc.
At $650m asking price, developer would have to sell @S$1700-1800 psf...At this price, not many will "tikam". In the last 2 years since 2009, how many enbloc more than $200m? i can't think of any. May be if price is lower, some developers may bite.
"At the minimum price of S$650 million, Credo said the per square foot per plot ratio works out to S$1,250"
Glad that we are back on track.
We have Tulip Gdns, Whitley Hts and Hawaii Twrs that are higher profile projects and had their official tenders over.
Even Whitley, which is asking for less than 200m is not done through the official tender. Maybe there are on-going talks but it's going to be lower than the RP - as in MarinePoint.
I think developers might want to assess how sales go from here first before bidding in tenders.
Allthepies
08-02-11, 11:46
no, we cannot move on until this jerk is taught a lesson and back off. he has been hounding me since god knows when, all because I am a foreigner. there are a lot of people that point up the shortcomings of many condos and no one hounds them like this jerk HP65 old fart has hounded me. He has bias against foreigners.
but we are not afraid of jerks like him. HP65, you want a fight, you got it.
how abt both of you take the squabbling offline? can exchange email and thrash out offline.... :doh:
So you mean they rather buy higher when the luxury high end market boom? Developers do land bank somwhy not buy now? Plus its reasonable pricing? Anyway no matter how fastnthe enbloc processnthat, the developer will need at least 1-2 years to make the enbloc site launch ready.....
So I am surprised, coz in 2 years, the pricing sure can support...
Somwhy don you think they don't buy? Maybe they think property prices will drop? :scared-3:
Sorry if this question sounds silly but what are the stamp duty charges for developers as well?
Cuz this stamp duty thing is giving me problems on whether to buy now or wait till government change the regulations to make it more friendly to small buyers like me.
no, we cannot move on until this jerk is taught a lesson and back off. he has been hounding me since god knows when, all because I am a foreigner. there are a lot of people that point up the shortcomings of many condos and no one hounds them like this jerk HP65 old fart has hounded me. He has bias against foreigners.
but we are not afraid of jerks like him. HP65, you want a fight, you got it.
Correction, I'm not bias against all foreigners. In fact I just recently approved and hired a Brit :D in my firm. Its only junk, free loaders foreigners like you that we want to eradicate. We want to bring in foreigners who can add value and contribute to the real economy. For a foreigner who is able to spend so much time in a condo forum debating and coming up with fantasy stories, I can safely say you are wasting our resources and just adding to the congestion without significantly adding value to the economy. For a local to do such a thing, its perfectly fine coz its our rights, we are born here. But for foreigners, we pay you to contribute to the economy, not come here and debate in a forum.
Unless you are telling me you are now a reformed person, you know fully well why i have been targeting you coz you make yourself easy target with your unsupported, general and subjective comments. Other forumers has challenged you in the Cascadia thread but you couldnt come out with any evidence to support your claim. In a nutshell, its easy to see your real intention is to buy something in CCR or somewhere better located than your crappybelle. Thus you love to bash CCR projects in the hope that prices will fall. Despite your claims that you think nothing of farrer, i believe you would sell your body (although nobody is going to want it) just to get a unit in this area. Unfortunately for you, you will not see prices dip to the level you can afford. Most owners here can afford to wait it out. If developers want a piece of the pie here, we will expect them to pay good money for it.
This is the reason why I love to challenge you coz its quite plain for all to see your intentions. The problem with you is, like some junk foreigners, you talk too much, exposing and contradicting yourself :cheers1:You are such an easy book to read even when you are hiding behind the computer.
haha, go ahead. you are just a minor accountant with no status in the country to speak of. you think that the government would give a hoot as to what you have to say?
jerk, moron, and asshole all rolled into one.
"gone down the doldrum?" that is a choice piece of singlish. I guess that is why foreign talent is needed here. to correct your gibberish.
Pls lah, you think I bother to speak queen's english? And do you think we employ foreigners to correct our english? Do you even see our govt shouting that we need english language experts from UK?
So what if we can't speak properly? Life goes on, we still do business with the rest of the world. The east and the west :spliff:
And btw, you will be surprised how much the govt values business leaders opinions.
Correction, I'm not bias against all foreigners. In fact I just recently approved and hired a Brit :D in my firm. Its only junk, free loaders foreigners like you that we want to eradicate. We want to bring in foreigners who can add value and contribute to the real economy. For a foreigner who is able to spend so much time in a condo forum debating and coming up with fantasy stories, I can safely say you are wasting our resources and just adding to the congestion without significantly adding value to the economy. For a local to do such a thing, its perfectly fine coz its our rights, we are born here. But for foreigners, we pay you to contribute to the economy, not come here and debate in a forum.
Unless you are telling me you are now a reformed person, you know fully well why i have been targeting you coz you make yourself easy target with your unsupported, general and subjective comments. Other forumers has challenged you in the Cascadia thread but you couldnt come out with any evidence to support your claim. In a nutshell, its easy to see your real intention is to buy something in CCR or somewhere better located than your crappybelle. Thus you love to bash CCR projects in the hope that prices will fall. Despite your claims that you think nothing of farrer, i believe you would sell your body (although nobody is going to want it) just to get a unit in this area. Unfortunately for you, you will not see prices dip to the level you can afford. Most owners here can afford to wait it out. If developers want a piece of the pie here, we will expect them to pay good money for it.
This is the reason why I love to challenge you coz its quite plain for all to see your intentions. The problem with you is, like some junk foreigners, you talk too much, exposing and contradicting yourself :cheers1:You are such an easy book to read even when you are hiding behind the computer.
well said ~
It's about price, timing, even if want to buy for landbank, there is a cost to holding this landbank - need to raise funds, cash, pay interest, etc. CapitaLand already sweating on the d'Leedon, another 1k+ units to sell. Who else have the might to come in? FEO? CDL? FCL? or Ho Bee team up with MCL again? Developers with the mu$cle for S$650mil with cooling measures just implemented, not many. Developers also have to check their other projects on hand, cashflow, etc.
At $650m asking price, developer would have to sell @S$1700-1800 psf...At this price, not many will "tikam". In the last 2 years since 2009, how many enbloc more than $200m? i can't think of any. May be if price is lower, some developers may bite.
"At the minimum price of S$650 million, Credo said the per square foot per plot ratio works out to S$1,250"
Precisely... 1800 psf is fair price for this area right?Glydebourne sold for 2150 psf and lee don residence is rumoured to be selling for at least 2000 psf.... Somdo understand why developer won't take it... In any enbloc sale, developer usually have to pay forwardmpricing or else no one will move especially in CCR... So unless developer wants to keep bidding for GLS 99 years LH land, they must better be ready to bid more...
I feel that tulip and now amber glades is good price..... Hawaii tower is a bit expensive though.... I think if no one wants to bid for tulip amber Whitley etc now, but when in 2 years times when they sell all their CCR units that they are holding now, they will have to bid much higher price...
That's my point.... They should bid now to avoid higher price next time...
Agree?
Precisely... 1800 psf is fair price for this area right?Glydebourne sold for 2150 psf and lee don residence is rumoured to be selling for at least 2000 psf.... Somdo understand why developer won't take it... In any enbloc sale, developer usually have to pay forwardmpricing or else no one will move especially in CCR... So unless developer wants to keep bidding for GLS 99 years LH land, they must better be ready to bid more...
I feel that tulip and now amber glades is good price..... Hawaii tower is a bit expensive though.... I think if no one wants to bid for tulip amber Whitley etc now, but when in 2 years times when they sell all their CCR units that they are holding now, they will have to bid much higher price...
That's my point.... They should bid now to avoid higher price next time...
Agree?
May not as LH is bound by time and with each reduction of time, owners might get desperate. TG's used to asked for more before. This round, their indicative price are already lower than previous.
Unless we are seeing changes of property measures or factors for the better, chances are going down than up in near term or wait for another round of bull run (dun't know when especially reports about china property might burst by nex yest looming around...)
Precisely... 1800 psf is fair price for this area right?Glydebourne sold for 2150 psf and lee don residence is rumoured to be selling for at least 2000 psf.... Somdo understand why developer won't take it... In any enbloc sale, developer usually have to pay forwardmpricing or else no one will move especially in CCR... So unless developer wants to keep bidding for GLS 99 years LH land, they must better be ready to bid more...
I feel that tulip and now amber glades is good price..... Hawaii tower is a bit expensive though.... I think if no one wants to bid for tulip amber Whitley etc now, but when in 2 years times when they sell all their CCR units that they are holding now, they will have to bid much higher price...
That's my point.... They should bid now to avoid higher price next time...
Agree? Well, I suppose Developer are more expert and better guru than most in this forum. Am sure if they see a good deal, they would have grab already. So if they don't, what does that tell us? Either they waiting for better deal or they are unsure, expect uncertainty in the mkt like more cooling measures, etc.
See this below:
http://sgproptalk.blogspot.com/2011/01/en-bloc-news-no-bids-for-tulip-garden.html
Thursday, January 27, 2011
Enbloc News 1: No bids for Tulip Garden & Hawaii Tower..? (http://sgproptalk.blogspot.com/2011/01/en-bloc-news-no-bids-for-tulip-garden.html)
.
Excerpts from a ST report today:
An unusual quiet has come over the closing of several mega collective sale tenders that were launched amid much fanfare with $500 million-plus reserve prices.
New launches for collective sales, however, have continued unabated.
The lack of news on the closed tenders has stirred talk among some residents that developers’ bids, if any, may have fallen short of reserve prices.
Recent reports, for example, have suggested that Tulip Garden – whose tender with a reserve price of $650 million was launched early last month and closed last Thursday – had received no bids.
If Tulip Garden gets sold for $650 million, it would be the third-largest collective sale by value here and the first freehold one above $500 million in three years.
Meanwhile, Hawaii Tower in Meyer Road, with a $700 million reserve price and whose tender closed yesterday, also got no bids.
Experts say the collective sale market is being tested again with the Jan 13 property cooling measures leaving the market in flux as many were caught by surprise.
The collective sale market had picked up last year with more than 30 sales totalling about $1.7 billion recorded as home prices surged. The strong rebound had been expected to continue this year.
Tenders launched before the latest property measures, and closing since, may have struggled to meet ambitious reserve prices, experts suggest, though they say it is too soon to draw conclusions.
Mr Alwyn Low, director of Deans Realtors, said even if bids with no special conditions came in above the reserve price for a collective sale, they would still take about a week to be finalised. There is also 10 weeks after the tender closes for private treaties to be ironed out.
Mr Karamjit Singh, managing director of marketing agent Credo Real Estate, said the tender for the Whitley Heights apartments has been pushed back to March 2, owing to requests from developers to look into the more complex nature of developing strata-landed homes.
The collective sale momentum, however, has carried on to this year. At least 10 collective sale tenders have been launched this year. These include Holland Tower, Newton View and Ying Mansions.
May not as LH is bound by time and with each reduction of time, owners might get desperate. TG's used to asked for more before. This round, their indicative price are already lower than previous.
Unless we are seeing changes of property measures or factors for the better, chances are going down than up in near term or wait for another round of bull run (dun't know when especially reports about china property might burst by nex yest looming around...)
oops mistake, should be FH not LH..:ashamed1:
See this below:
http://sgproptalk.blogspot.com/2011/01/en-bloc-news-no-bids-for-tulip-garden.html
Thursday, January 27, 2011
Enbloc News 1: No bids for Tulip Garden & Hawaii Tower..? (http://sgproptalk.blogspot.com/2011/01/en-bloc-news-no-bids-for-tulip-garden.html)
.
Excerpts from a ST report today:
An unusual quiet has come over the closing of several mega collective sale tenders that were launched amid much fanfare with $500 million-plus reserve prices.
New launches for collective sales, however, have continued unabated.
The lack of news on the closed tenders has stirred talk among some residents that developers’ bids, if any, may have fallen short of reserve prices.
Recent reports, for example, have suggested that Tulip Garden – whose tender with a reserve price of $650 million was launched early last month and closed last Thursday – had received no bids.
If Tulip Garden gets sold for $650 million, it would be the third-largest collective sale by value here and the first freehold one above $500 million in three years.
Meanwhile, Hawaii Tower in Meyer Road, with a $700 million reserve price and whose tender closed yesterday, also got no bids.
Experts say the collective sale market is being tested again with the Jan 13 property cooling measures leaving the market in flux as many were caught by surprise.
The collective sale market had picked up last year with more than 30 sales totalling about $1.7 billion recorded as home prices surged. The strong rebound had been expected to continue this year.
Tenders launched before the latest property measures, and closing since, may have struggled to meet ambitious reserve prices, experts suggest, though they say it is too soon to draw conclusions.
Mr Alwyn Low, director of Deans Realtors, said even if bids with no special conditions came in above the reserve price for a collective sale, they would still take about a week to be finalised. There is also 10 weeks after the tender closes for private treaties to be ironed out.
Mr Karamjit Singh, managing director of marketing agent Credo Real Estate, said the tender for the Whitley Heights apartments has been pushed back to March 2, owing to requests from developers to look into the more complex nature of developing strata-landed homes.
The collective sale momentum, however, has carried on to this year. At least 10 collective sale tenders have been launched this year. These include Holland Tower, Newton View and Ying Mansions.
Looks like the take is for small projects and not major projects given current environment...
Geylang OKT
09-02-11, 09:13
Peace be to All :D
http://www.todayonline.com/Business/Property/EDC110114-0000169/En-bloc-sales--Dream-or-reality
En bloc sales: Dream or reality?
In a changed market, there is little, if anything, to be excited about
by Ku Swee Yong
05:55 AM Jan 14, 2011
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Several articles have been published in the media and by property analysts in recent months about the frenzy surrounding en bloc deals and the increasing values of these collective sales.
Some of these are really bullish about the potential for such transactions this year.
I cannot see where the excitement is because I understand the hurdles to en bloc deals have increased.
Several things have changed since the last peak of the en bloc market in 2007. The most obvious one has been highlighted by some of the articles: The average size of residential en bloc deals last year was about $50 million and only one exceeded $100 million. In comparison, more than 20 of the 200 residential en bloc deals in 2007 exceeded $100 million in value, as shown in Table 1.
THE DEVELOPERS
There are several reasons for the current lack of interest in large en bloc offerings - that is, those over $100 million in value - even though many developers are actively building up their land banks.
From the developers' point of view, the economics of an en bloc deal are less attractive today than in 2007 because of the following reasons:
a) The Government Land Sales (GLS) programme was at a record high in 2010. And, given the seemingly-insatiable demand from property investors and upgraders, the GLS will be at least as high in 2011. Developers participate in the GLS as it is a straightforward way to purchase 99-year leasehold land. It is hassle-free compared to the process of purchasing from an en bloc sale (unless there is 100-per-cent agreement from the owners of the en bloc development).
An en bloc sale requires clearance from the Strata Titles Board and the subsequent relocation of the existing owners of the project. Developers do not want to risk their investment cashflow being delayed by potentially lengthy appeals. The Land Titles (Strata) Act was last amended in the middle of last year to improve en bloc rules, making the process more transparent but more onerous.
b) From January 2009, planters within a residential unit and bay windows in all developments are not exempted from gross floor area (GFA). Based on this rule change, the uplift from the en bloc development's current plot ratio to the new buildable GFA is more limited compared to that during 2007.
For example, Tulip Garden was sold en bloc for $516 million in mid-2007 (although the buyer did not follow through the following year). At that time, developers were betting on launching new projects at Farrer Road upwards of $1,600 per sq ft. Additional profit margins for the developers could be derived from the sellable GFA of bay windows and planters (exceeding the plot ratio limit).
Today, without the additional GFA, developers would have to launch at higher prices in order to maintain their 15- to 20-per-cent profit margin. As a comparison, Tulip Garden is asking for $650 million in the current 2010 en bloc exercise.
c) Development Charge (DC) rates have gone back up to just below 5 per cent of the peak levels of March 2008. Average DC rates for September last year are 2 per cent below those of September 2007, 53 per cent above July 2007 and 114 per cent above March 2007.
Given the last few months of strong sales, particularly when looking at prices achieved in the mass market residential segment, I believe DC rates will increase in March this year, possibly exceeding those of March 2008 in many of the sectors.
d) Construction cost estimates, according to RLB, a global property and construction consultant, are higher in Q3 2010 than in Q3 2007, as shown in Table 2.
Developers now face higher costs from the DC impost and with less strata area to sell, even as market prices are about the same as those in 2007 for the Holland Road stretch.
For developers to view en bloc deals as economically viable investments, the reserve/asking prices cannot go too high up. En bloc sellers need to be realistic if they want to achieve a win-win deal for themselves and the developers.
THE FINANCIERS AND LENDERS
However, the biggest dampener to the fever of the en bloc market is the drastically reduced access to financing. This point has escaped the discussion of all the recent articles.
In 2007, there were many sources of financing - debt funds, hedge funds, etc. Developers could also choose to partner with investment banks such as Lehman Brothers, Goldman Sachs, Wachovia or hedge funds such as Citadel, etc. In addition to getting senior debt at up to 70 per cent of the price of the land and construction, developers/investment funds may also avail themselves of another 20 per cent more in junior debt, mezzanine financing or convertible bonds, and so on.
A lot depends on the credit standing of the developer, but it does mean that, to buy Pine Grove en bloc, a top notch developer could require as little as $170 million, or about 10 per cent of equity.
Today, we are left with simple, senior debt (normal straight loans from banks) and the lending ratio may be capped at 60 per cent - which means the developer wishing to buy Pine Grove en bloc would need to invest well over half a billion dollars of equity. And, on top of that, the developer has to put up even more cash for development charges and construction costs, which are now also subject to lower loan limits.
Most real estate consultants will only look at the developer side of the equation. But we cannot forget that the lenders play a big role. Without credit and financing, the real estate market can at best stroll at a leisurely pace. And for the en bloc market to continue to grow actively, we need financial institutions and debt funds, especially the non-bank lenders, to regain their appetite for real estate risks.
Otherwise, the success of large en bloc deals such as Hawaii Tower, Pine Grove, Pandan Valley, Tanglin Park and Tulip Garden will remain a dream.
Ku Swee Yong is the founder of real estate agency International Property Advisor (IPA), which provides services to high-net-worth individuals.
Just check all enbloc sales so far in 2011, seem that deals done below initial asking price:
http://sgproptalk.blogspot.com/2011
"
1. Marine Point
Marine Point in Marine Parade Road has been acquired by CapitaLand at $101 million. The owners wanted $110 million when the tender was launched in October.
If an estimated development charge of $12.8 million is included, the price works out to $1,056psf ppr, CapitaLand said.
2. Bartley Terrace
Bartley Terrace, near Bartley MRT station, was sold for $40 million. The tender was launched last year with an asking price of $48 million.
Meadows Investment, a firm owned by Mr Neo Tiam Boon, executive director of local property and construction firm Tiong Aik Group, bought the site in a private treaty, said marketing agent Urban Front yesterday."
3. Robin Star
The BT today reported that Sing Holdings has acquired Robin Star for $47 million.
The 10-unit boutique development at 10 – 12 Robin Road will be combined with previously acquired Robin Court and 1 Robin Drive to make a combined site of 6,027.4sq m (= 64,878sqft).
The total purchase price of $124 million for the freehold sites translates to $1,297psf ppr, inclusive of estimated development costs of $5.28 million, Sing Holdings said.
Sing Holdings acquired Robin Court and 1 Robin Drive last September for $77.33 million.
The three sites were first collectively put up for sale in November 2007 by Credo Real Estate, sole owner of 1 Robin Drive and the agent representing the majority owners of Robin Court and Robin Star.
Credo slashed the asking price 40% the following year, putting Robin Court and 1 Robin Drive for $964-$996psf ppr, down from the initial asking price of $1,500-$1,600psf ppr.
Robin Court comprises 15 apartments, Robin Star 10 apartments, and No 1 Robin Drive is a detached house with a pre-school operating on its site.
Looks like the smaller sites are still having a field-day as far as collective sales are concerned... "
Peace be to All :D
More pleasures sure helps:cool:
En bloc deals done in 2010 went thro' coz
a) in PPR terms it was priced to sell
b) property sales environment was healthy
c) quantums were all below 100m
Now the sales environment has changed with all these policy measures.
Also the quantum and PPR rate has increased. With less funding options, only the braver and depleted land-banked developers will bid.
Some of the EB developments have been greedy - there PPR rate is too high. I'm not surprised these are not done.
So tulip 1250 psf ppr amber glades 1075 psf ppr, Hawaii 1400 psf ppr all too high?
So tulip 1250 psf ppr amber glades 1075 psf ppr, Hawaii 1400 psf ppr all too high? Tulip & Hawaii - probably it is the size & quantum of the deal, while Amber Glades just put up for sales - quantum is much lower - personally think will go thru but maybe Developer squeeze abit and buy at slightly below asking price
So tulip and Hawaii must price at below 1k psf before canenbloc?
So tulip and Hawaii must price at below 1k psf before canenbloc?
U are asking a million dollar question if MUST, well market forces dictate, only developers who are truely interested will know. Personally, 10-20% below asking price may be able to sell, if no more cooling measures and no sudden increase in interest rate in short term. But dun 4get if too low, resident who voted yes may change their mind and say NO. Are u vested in any if them?
I have a unit at olina lodge and we are in the midst of signing the en bloc deal...
U are asking a million dollar question if MUST, well market forces dictate, only developers who are truely interested will know. Personally, 10-20% below asking price may be able to sell, if no more cooling measures and no sudden increase in interest rate in short term. But dun 4get if too low, resident who voted yes may change their mind and say NO. Are u vested in any if them?
Ya you might be right, why should the residents sell if they cannot get a premium... Might as well keep until the next en bloc bull run when all the CCR land gets sold... Then it will be interesting coz I think during the last enbloc fever a lot of CCR land have been sold so if all those get developednthen not many pieces of land left in CCR to be up for en bloc then the price will be higher lol
Nice location IMHO, think developer trying to save some $$$$ see can lower abit.
Ya you might be right, why should the residents sell if they cannot get a premium... Might as well keep until the next en bloc bull run when all the CCR land gets sold... Then it will be interesting coz I think during the last enbloc fever a lot of CCR land have been sold so if all those get developednthen not many pieces of land left in CCR to be up for en bloc then the price will be higher lol personally, support level will be price Guccoland bought Leedon Height, which is $1062 per square foot per plot ratio including development charge. Also FH like Tulip. If owners want to sell at same price, think some developer will be quite keen.
http://lushhomemedia.com/2008/01/14/guocoland-to-consider-limited-lease-extension-for-leedon-heights-owners/
personally, support level will be price Guccoland bought Leedon Height, which is $1062 per square foot per plot ratio including development charge. Also FH like Tulip. If owners want to sell at same price, think some developer will be quite keen.
http://lushhomemedia.com/2008/01/14/guocoland-to-consider-limited-lease-extension-for-leedon-heights-owners/
Can't tulip garden get 1100+++ if they sell themselves? Not think they will sell if it 1062 Psf ppr. They wont get a replacement nearby, got to go to jurong Liao. Who will wanna enbloc so they can downgrade their lifestyle
Can't tulip garden get 1100+++ if they sell themselves? Not think they will sell if it 1062 Psf ppr. They wont get a replacement nearby, got to go to jurong Liao. Who will wanna enbloc so they can downgrade their lifestyle
Agree, already wait so long, am sure, they will hold out for good deal. Wonder if $1200, slightly below the min. Asking price of $1200, will owners let go
I really think developer should try and negotiate a deal for TG, not many nice land in CCR left... All small piece of land... Aiyah anyway sure enbloc in 10 years la, the owners don't need to worry, and e price will be higher than the current 1200 psf ppr coz by then farrer road condo price will be 2500 to 3000 psf Liao... Enblo price always a function of replacement costa for the existing owners, if the owners cannot get a similar unit nearby they will not sell...
I really think developer should try and negotiate a deal for TG, not many nice land in CCR left... All small piece of land... Aiyah anyway sure enbloc in 10 years la, the owners don't need to worry, and e price will be higher than the current 1200 psf ppr coz by then farrer road condo price will be 2500 to 3000 psf Liao... Enblo price always a function of replacement costa for the existing owners, if the owners cannot get a similar unit nearby they will not sell...
After reading the Gillman Heights sage on sunday newspaper, if i own a unit at TG i also wont sell unless a good price. imagine enbloc at a lousy price then prices continue to ran up. By the time get the $$$ then move to a totally new environment that is much less convenient, then see no value in en bloc.
I been inside TG to see my friend's unit. There are some huge units inside with nice environment. if dont enbloc, stay i think also shiok.
"Based on the $650 million reserve price, apartment owners - whose units range in size from 1,700 sq ft to 3,400 sq ft - stand to receive between $3.14 million and $5.45 million each. The freehold Tulip Garden has a land area of 316,708 sq ft". For owners of say 1700 sqft, they would pocket $3.14m, about $1847psf, around ,the area at that price FH, owners can still get new or quite new replacement units in Holland area for similar size condo units, but if enbloc deal done at 10% less than asking price, then owner only pocket about $1662psf, by the time they get $, maybe can get new replacement units in Holland area but not FH, probably LH, like D'leedon.
"Based on the $650 million reserve price, apartment owners - whose units range in size from 1,700 sq ft to 3,400 sq ft - stand to receive between $3.14 million and $5.45 million each. The freehold Tulip Garden has a land area of 316,708 sq ft". For owners of say 1700 sqft, they would pocket $3.14m, about $1847psf, around ,the area at that price FH, owners can still get new or quite new replacement units in Holland area for similar size condo units, but if enbloc deal done at 10% less than asking price, then owner only pocket about $1662psf, by the time they get $, maybe can get new replacement units in Holland area but not FH, probably LH, like D'leedon.
If the owners are getting only $1662 i think it doesnt make sense to sell. Leedon Height new launch will probably will selling $2100 +- $100 psf. That should have an effect on property ard that area. Older developments like spanish village are selling ard 1400-1500 psf i guess, although last transacted price is ard $1300++ psf.
After national broadcast of Guillman height saga, i think home owners are probably more cautious. 10% discount i m sure alot of pple will not sign ba.
You are right, there is the time lag effect... If lee don heights really gonna sell for 2100 and above ( same price as Glydebourne) then the owners of TG must at least get 1800 to 2000 right? Or else how to be worthwhile? Must pay so much more to move next door.... Pay a bit more ok lah.... But to topmup more thAn 10% gonna be a tough sell man...
And ifnleedon launching at 2100 and above I really don't understand why developer doting take at 1200 man... Must be greedy lah.... Want to make a lot of profit.... At 1250 psf ppr, I think break-even about 1700 psf max.... Still got lots a room to play with
Owners of Tulip Gardens, you should go Bang on the doors of CapitaLand, after bidding a benchmark record psf ( $1/2 bn) for Bishan plot near MRT today, they still have $7bn less $0.5bn, your $650m reserve price is peanuts to them....
Owners of Tulip Gardens, you should go Bang on the doors of CapitaLand, after bidding a benchmark record psf ( $1/2 bn) for Bishan plot near MRT today, they still have $7bn less $0.5bn, your $650m reserve price is peanuts to them....
from the time line Capitaland would have considered Tulip enbloc, but they went for katong's one instead.
from the time line Capitaland would have considered Tulip enbloc, but they went for katong's one instead.Am sure, they may have their reasons and would have done their analysis....
Maybe too many units unsold at farrer area so they spread their eggs around.... What I don't understand is that they can always buy and then hold... Then launch when lee don residence and dleedon sold put coz not many szable piece of land at lee don area now....
No takers for $650m TG, residents who still want to sell, shld just cash out rather than wait and wait...., no bids after 10weeks period as per report in ST report today.
No takers for Tulip Garden
Today, 05:12 AM
TULIP Garden was aiming to be the third-biggest collective sale here, with a bumper reserve price of $650 million.
Full Story
CCR is not the trend now... all go to RCR and OCR
Ya prob in one to two years time when OCR over supply then CCR will be in vogue again
But you know what I don't understand is that when CCR picks up again, then owners of tulip will want higher price so actually they should bid for it now and after one to two years can launch it
what are the chances Pine Grove will enbloc if the amt is 3x bigger than TG asking price. The location seems much more inferior compared to TG......
The small small developments seems to be favour of the year for enbloc.
what are the chances Pine Grove will enbloc if the amt is 3x bigger than TG asking price. The location seems much more inferior compared to TG......
The small small developments seems to be favour of the year for enbloc.
Probably still have chance, TG- like strike 4D 1st prize, PG maybe like strike Toto jackpot.., maybe ask CapitaLand to scout for Another Jap Godfather to partner...:D
Haha I will be damn surprised if PG is successful man... Only slightly lower than TG in price but further away from town and 99 years lease? So how can?
Recent developers patterns to enbloc really open up a whole perspectives for buyers who want to invest in property that have enbloc potential. SMALL is indeed beautiful and full potential...., have to scout for small project less than $100mil...to stand a better chance of enbloc...even developers nowadays take risk based on quantum...Just like buyers chiong for MM units, developers also 'hood' and 'tan' for enbloc projects less than $100mil....
Leong Bee Court at potong pasir will easier to enbloc than PG given the price tag and proximity to city and mrt station. Macpherson Green is already enbloc given the same reason.
Recent developers patterns to enbloc really open up a whole perspectives for buyers who want to invest in property that have enbloc potential. SMALL is indeed beautiful and full potential...., have to scout for small project less than $100mil...to stand a better chance of enbloc...even developers nowadays take risk based on quantum...Just like buyers chiong for MM units, developers also 'hood' and 'tan' for enbloc projects less than $100mil....
Recent developers patterns to enbloc really open up a whole perspectives for buyers who want to invest in property that have enbloc potential. SMALL is indeed beautiful and full potential...., have to scout for small project less than $100mil...to stand a better chance of enbloc...even developers nowadays take risk based on quantum...Just like buyers chiong for MM units, developers also 'hood' and 'tan' for enbloc projects less than $100mil....
Based on the must get plots of land near MRT style of BIG boys , the small or medium size developers with little capital can only go for troublesome enblocs for small developments. develope into MM and selling high Psf with affordable quantums. This is based on my observations.
Based on the must get plots of land near MRT style of BIG boys , the small or medium size developers with little capital can only go for troublesome enblocs for small developments. develope into MM and selling high Psf with affordable quantums. This is based on my observations.
Good one...., held back investing in a large project that has enbloc potential becos quantum of project will just kill off any developers interest in current times...
On retrospect, owners of Farrer Court can considered themselves damn "Heng" and also thanked fortune god, CapitaLand. Not sure when will we see another big successful enbloc like Farrer Court..., solid timing then...
fortredale sold at 10% more than tulip garden but tulip garden no takers haha... Damn funny.... How can that location be better than holland road? When do you think developer will have appetite for bigger sized plot? Rather than keep bidding for MM plot?
devilplate
04-04-11, 23:46
fortredale sold at 10% more than tulip garden but tulip garden no takers haha... Damn funny.... How can that location be better than holland road? When do you think developer will have appetite for bigger sized plot? Rather than keep bidding for MM plot?
farrer court .....once bitten twice shy
better go for GLS for bigger plot...no DC charge....faster turnover....lesser risk....
fortredale sold at 10% more than tulip garden but tulip garden no takers haha... Damn funny.... How can that location be better than holland road? When do you think developer will have appetite for bigger sized plot? Rather than keep bidding for MM plot?
Developers also unwilling to take some much risk, look at quantum and go for MM liao
Buyers buy MM units, developer buy MM land lolx.... When wi
L developer buy proper size land?
very hard for developers to digest such large quantums, you need to have the kind of environment we had back in 2006. everything was like almost perfect.
devilplate
07-04-11, 01:13
very hard for developers to digest such large quantums, you need to have the kind of environment we had back in 2006. everything was like almost perfect.
only far east can afford to sit on freehold land for yrs without launching it.....other listed developers simply cannot do tat as they nid to account for their shareholders
Wild Falcon
08-04-11, 12:13
Actually the price tag of $600m+ or so isn't that high. Many of the GLS were sold at higher prices. Just that developers not that bullish on that site - can't help but feel that locality is getting passe. Nature? No. Very near city? No. Transportation? Average. Amenities? Average. Nice views? No. Exclusively private? No.
No USP. The worst is ulu pandan area. Avoid at all costs.
Developers also unwilling to take some much risk, look at quantum and go for MM liao
Actually the price tag of $600m+ or so isn't that high. Many of the GLS were sold at higher prices. Just that developers not that bullish on that site - can't help but feel that locality is getting passe. Nature? No. Very near city? No. Transportation? Average. Amenities? Average. Nice views? No. Exclusively private? No.
No USP. The worst is ulu pandan area. Avoid at all costs.
Wow,u say until like that, owners of TG all :mad: :simmering:
Near holland V and Dempsey passé? So where is the happening place now? And why avoid ulu Pandan at all costs? Its quiet and big spaces
Near holland V and Dempsey passé? So where is the happening place now? And why avoid ulu Pandan at all costs? Its quiet and big spaces
now pple like big malls like Nex. transport hubs, development stories. Pool of water can also sell 1000 psf in true ulu locations.
Holland road stretch has it own charm. Frankly, FH development launches are at prices that are most probably out of reach to most pple at 40% LTV. MM whole plot of land will be highly unlikely.
devilplate
09-04-11, 00:28
rcr is the star performer gg forward...ccr later on....jus be abit more patient:D
I think it's not passé, just that now it's up graders market driving sales... Once that dry up, then prime luxury will move
Overhang of supply.... not surprise why no bids... still a lot of unsold units in tat area..
:scared-1:
I think that must be it.... Probably in 3 years time when all dleedon and lee don residence sold out then developer will big
proud owner
11-04-11, 10:02
I think that must be it.... Probably in 3 years time when all dleedon and lee don residence sold out then developer will big
many moons ago ... Tulip gardens was like a 'dream location ' to me
however, many moons later ..flyover .... etc ... somehow ... it loses it attraction ... feels 'cornered' ...
now i prefer those on the opposite side ..like Sutton, Sommerville park ... quieter ...
many moons ago ... Tulip gardens was like a 'dream location ' to me
however, many moons later ..flyover .... etc ... somehow ... it loses it attraction ... feels 'cornered' ...
now i prefer those on the opposite side ..like Sutton, Sommerville park ... quieter ...
Actually you are right.... A little more crossed there now... But they have option to face leedon park so should be able to overcome the constraint if new development comes up... Plus if you go down to the site, they development can have holland road entrance, farrer entrance or leedon as main entrance... So actually quite a lot of option
But seriously... so many failed attempt for tulip garden. not sure if this very "heng sui" location hehehe... think of it how many attemp and about success attemp. some of the owner getting 5% pocket money last two year ago.
Heard from a housing agent that the CSC for Tulip Garden has now gone back to the owners to accept a lower price (< 650M), can someone confirm this rumour ?
Lower price? Jurong above 1k psf ppr and tulip if lower price will be damn close to the same price for the jurong pricing man.... D10 and freehold.... If I got money I will buy tulip garden man.... I think sure make money...
devilplate
26-05-11, 23:38
Lower price? Jurong above 1k psf ppr and tulip if lower price will be damn close to the same price for the jurong pricing man.... D10 and freehold.... If I got money I will buy tulip garden man.... I think sure make money...
Harlow..its a white site my fren....
Ya I know.... But it still make aD10 site looks cheap in comparion?
devilplate
27-05-11, 00:00
Ya I know.... But it still make aD10 site looks cheap in comparion?
Cannot compare at all
devilplate
27-05-11, 00:09
Just remember tat tanjong pagar white site was sold only at 1kpsf last yr:scared-1:
Jurong comparable wif cbd?:scared-1:
Someone here mentioned that Capitaland has cornered the Jurong East MRT area. This sounds similar to FEO cornering the Amber Road area. Get ready for residential and commercial prices to fly in the next 1-2 years in JLD.
Harlow..its a white site my fren....
What is the difference before white site and enbloc sale?
What I can see is that for white site the construction can be started as soon as 6 months after the tender is awarded
For enbloc, the buyer can take possession of the whole development 6-12 months after the tender is awarded, and another few month to demolish the existing building if the buyer wish so. Of course the buyer bear the risk of the pro-longed completion time if the any of the existing owners file petition against the deal. However, given the now more stringent enbloc rules, I doubt that there can be petitions with grounds
I would say that the difference between white site and enbloc site is roughly 12 months difference between the time the buyer can start the construction
What is the difference before white site and enbloc sale?
What I can see is that for white site the construction can be started as soon as 6 months after the tender is awarded
For enbloc, the buyer can take possession of the whole development 6-12 months after the tender is awarded, and another few month to demolish the existing building if the buyer wish so. Of course the buyer bear the risk of the pro-longed completion time if the any of the existing owners file petition against the deal. However, given the now more stringent enbloc rules, I doubt that there can be petitions with grounds
I would say that the difference between white site and enbloc site is roughly 12 months difference between the time the buyer can start the construction
White site can build shopping/office/residential all in one.
devilplate
27-05-11, 09:38
What is the difference before white site and enbloc sale?
What I can see is that for white site the construction can be started as soon as 6 months after the tender is awarded
For enbloc, the buyer can take possession of the whole development 6-12 months after the tender is awarded, and another few month to demolish the existing building if the buyer wish so. Of course the buyer bear the risk of the pro-longed completion time if the any of the existing owners file petition against the deal. However, given the now more stringent enbloc rules, I doubt that there can be petitions with grounds
I would say that the difference between white site and enbloc site is roughly 12 months difference between the time the buyer can start the construction
one is purely residential....the other is mixed
one is purely residential....the other is mixed
I was commenting on your post of white site compared to enbloc site
not the use of the site
devilplate
27-05-11, 09:46
I was commenting on your post of white site compared to enbloc site
not the use of the site
tats y i said cannot compare....anything wrong?
office, retail and residential valued differently
Harlow..its a white site my fren....
tats y i said cannot compare....anything wrong?
office, retail and residential valued differently
above was your comment
To me you were comparing white site with tulip garden, the enbloc site
nothing mentioned in your post about the use of the land
So is 1200 psf ppr reasonable?
devilplate
27-05-11, 10:07
above was your comment
To me you were comparing white site with tulip garden, the enbloc site
nothing mentioned in your post about the use of the land
i comment on ccr's comment...
and i aso added cannot compare at all..
i suggest u go thru the order of comments again
devilplate
27-05-11, 10:08
So is 1200 psf ppr reasonable?
how much is the DC charge applicable to tulip?
i comment on ccr's comment...
and i aso added cannot compare at all..
i suggest u go thru the order of comments again
To make it clear, I add the sequence of the comments from CCR's comment to mine
Lower price? Jurong above 1k psf ppr and tulip if lower price will be damn close to the same price for the jurong pricing man.... D10 and freehold.... If I got money I will buy tulip garden man.... I think sure make money...
Harlow..its a white site my fren....
Ya I know.... But it still make aD10 site looks cheap in comparion?
Cannot compare at all
Just remember tat tanjong pagar white site was sold only at 1kpsf last yr:scared-1:
Jurong comparable wif cbd?:scared-1:
Someone here mentioned that Capitaland has cornered the Jurong East MRT area. This sounds similar to FEO cornering the Amber Road area. Get ready for residential and commercial prices to fly in the next 1-2 years in JLD.
What is the difference before white site and enbloc sale?
What I can see is that for white site the construction can be started as soon as 6 months after the tender is awarded
For enbloc, the buyer can take possession of the whole development 6-12 months after the tender is awarded, and another few month to demolish the existing building if the buyer wish so. Of course the buyer bear the risk of the pro-longed completion time if the any of the existing owners file petition against the deal. However, given the now more stringent enbloc rules, I doubt that there can be petitions with grounds
I would say that the difference between white site and enbloc site is roughly 12 months difference between the time the buyer can start the construction
Nothing was mention about the use of the land at all. until later posts. You brought us the issue of one is white site one is enbloc, correct?
devilplate
27-05-11, 10:24
i said cannot compare jld white site purchase px of 1kpsf wif tulip enbloc px tag
den u ask me y....so i said diff land use....
is there a problem?:confused:
i said cannot compare jld white site purchase px of 1kpsf wif tulip enbloc px tag
den u ask me y....so i said diff land use....
is there a problem?:confused:
I never asked you why leh. Just said that white site definitely can be compared with enbloc site
Even lands of different uses can be compared, just need to set the correct parameters
A sweeping statement say land of different use cannot be compared is not correct
devilplate
27-05-11, 10:48
I never asked you why leh. Just said that white site definitely can be compared with enbloc site
Even lands of different uses can be compared, just need to set the correct parameters
A sweeping statement say land of different use cannot be compared is not correct
so how to compare jld white site wif tulip?
jld white sold at 1016psf ppr...min 40% set aside for office...the rest commercial/residential/hotel
so we can use industrial site and hotel site to make comparison wif residential site? how to set the parameters correctly inorder to make a fair comparison?
so how to compare jld white site wif tulip?
jld white sold at 1016psf ppr...min 40% set aside for office...
so we can use industrial site and hotel site to make comparison wif residential site? how to set the parameters correctly inorder to make a fair comparison?
Just think yourself as a developer, now, there are two sites in front of you to bid, what are the parameters you will use to value these two sites, assuming one is pure residential, one is mixed use. You may or may not come up with the same bidding price for both site
Is S$1016 psf forJLD cheaper than S$1250psf for tulip garden?
Well, from the angle of dollar psf, yes ,JLD is cheaper
from the the buyer's return perspective, it is up to the parameters of each one's choice, and to be proved when they are completed and sold
how much is the DC charge applicable to tulip?
if you go back to the first page of this thread you can find the following:
"Credo's press release yesterday said the development baseline plot ratio of Tulip Garden is 1.6425, higher than the allowable plot ratio of 1.6"
the allowable plot ratio is 1.6, 10% bonus for balcony, so totally can build 1.76
the base line is 1.6426, so the DC is the difference between 1.76 and 1.6426, times the land area, times the DC rate of S$6650 psm
As Tulip Garden has a land area of 316,708 sq ft, with the information available from this thread and URA's website, my estimated DC is about S$23 million
From the developer perspective like Capitaland, it is very obvious to go for JLD which has greater potential to make more $. Anyway, the white site offers more opportunity.
Just think yourself as a developer, now, there are two sites in front of you to bid, what are the parameters you will use to value these two sites, assuming one is pure residential, one is mixed use. You may or may not come up with the same bidding price for both site
Is S$1016 psf forJLD cheaper than S$1250psf for tulip garden?
Well, from the angle of dollar psf, yes ,JLD is cheaper
from the the buyer's return perspective, it is up to the parameters of each one's choice, and to be proved when they are completed and sold
devilplate
27-05-11, 11:02
Just think yourself as a developer, now, there are two sites in front of you to bid, what are the parameters you will use for these two sites, assuming one is pure residential, one is mixed use. You may or may not come up with the same bidding price for both site
Is S$1016 psf fro JLD cheaper than S$1250psf for tulip garden?
Well, from the angle of dollar psf, jst ,JLD is cheaper
from the the buyer's return perspective, it is up to the parameters of each one's choice, and to be proved when they are completed and sold
so u agree its very complicated?
so am i wrong to say both site cannot be compared to determine each fair value?
so u agree its very complicated?
so am i wrong to say both site cannot be compared to determine each fair value?
you are wrong because both site can be compared
devilplate
27-05-11, 11:05
you are wrong because both site can be compared
at this point in time, we duno wats capland gona build on tat site for the remaining 60% GFA.....so how to compare?:beats-me-man:
if capland decides not to build any residential component....its still comparable?
i seriously dun tink we shd compare office/hotel vs residential site value....it just make no sense to compare...and its definitely non conclusive
at this point in time, we duno wats capland gona build on tat site for the remaining 60% GFA.....so how to compare?:beats-me-man:
if capland decides not to build any residential component....its still comparable?
i seriously dun tink we shd compare office/hotel vs residential site value....it just make no sense to compare...and its definitely non conclusive
You and I may not know but Capitaland surely know what it wants to build to make a reasonable return for the price it pays for the land.
Again, they are comparable, you just need to set your own parameters.
If you think it is too complicated to compare, I am fine with it
devilplate
27-05-11, 11:33
You and I may not know but Capitaland surely know what it wants to build to make a reasonable return for the price it pays for the land.
Again, they are comparable, you just need to set your own parameters.
If you think it is too complicated to compare, I am fine with it
we do not haf the data and parameters to compare....
and definitely cannot make a direct comparison between the 2 sites to determine which is undervalue or overvalue
Just think yourself as a developer...
for this one I have to support devil. JLD site was not bought as a "developer". it was bought by CAPL as a *business*. CapitaLand Residential, the one who is the "developer", has very little ( 0 ? ) stake.
When a site was bought for commercial/hotel/industrial usage, the perspective and business model is different. You can say whether residential or commercial, it's still looking at return over investment. Yes but how the return is projected, or even *accounted*, is entirely different.
therefore it's very right to say these 2 sites are not comparable. There is no basis to compare. Other than the funding requirement looks similar. That's the only common item.
Confirm tulip no DC....so is 1200 good price at current market for a D10 FH site?
devilplate
27-05-11, 11:47
Confirm tulip no DC....so is 1200 good price at current market for a D10 FH site?
experts usually factor in 500psf construction cost for prime project?
if so, work out to be 1700psf breakeven....
so it will be a good px if u tink they can sell for 2kpsf
for this one I have to support devil. JLD site was not bought as a "developer". it was bought by CAPL as a *business*. CapitaLand Residential, the one who is the "developer", has very little ( 0 ? ) stake.
When a site was bought for commercial/hotel/industrial usage, the perspective and business model is different. You can say whether residential or commercial, it's still looking at return over investment. Yes but how the return is projected, or even *accounted*, is entirely different.
therefore it's very right to say these 2 sites are not comparable. There is no basis to compare. Other than the funding requirement looks similar. That's the only common item.
The models for a pure residential site and a mixed use site have to be different because the cashflow are different
What's the outcome of your models? Based your bidding price and projected income, you may have yield, NPV, IRR, or things you may wish.
When evaluating two pieces of land to bid for, assuming your cost of capital is 7%, your two models crank out the following figures:
Land 1: pure residential use, biding price S$1000 psf, IRR 5%, NPV S$1m
Land 2: mixed use, biding price S$900, IRR 5%, NPV S$1m
Another scenario:
Land 1: pure residential use, biding price S$1000 psf, IRR 5%, NPV S$1m
Land 2: mixed use, biding price S$900, IRR 4%, NPV S$0.5m
Are they comparable? I would think they are
A sweeping statement saying land of different use are not comparable is not correct, you just have to set your parameters, just like when comparing other things, such as CAPL stock and parkway REIT share
Residential is different as compared to mixed as commercial/retail will need to have more circulation space which has not rental yield.
The models for a pure residential site and a mixed use site have to be different because the cashflow are different
What's the outcome of your models? Based your bidding price and projected income, you may have yield, NPV, IRR, or things you may wish.
When evaluating two pieces of land to bid for, assuming your cost of capital is 7%, your two models crank out the following figures:
Land 1: pure residential use, biding price S$1000 psf, IRR 5%, NPV S$1m
Land 2: mixed use, biding price S$900, IRR 5%, NPV S$1m
Another scenario:
Land 1: pure residential use, biding price S$1000 psf, IRR 5%, NPV S$1m
Land 2: mixed use, biding price S$900, IRR 4%, NPV S$0.5m
Are they comparable? I would think they are
A sweeping statement saying land of different use are not comparable is not correct, you just have to set your parameters, just like when comparing other things, such as CAPL stock and parkway REIT share
Residential is different as compared to mixed as commercial/retail will need to have more circulation space which has not rental yield.
There is no doubt that site for residential use is different from that for commercial use
My points are simple:
When compare a white site with an enbloc site of the same use, one needs to take into account 1) risk of pro-longed completion period, and 2) a 6-12 months difference of lead time before the construction can commence
When compare site of different uses, one need to value each site separately based on the parameters that fit to their respective nature. For example, for residential site your forecast normally ends after the final payment is received, while for commercial site your investment horizon may be longer with recurring income during holding period
Once you have "your" fair value of each site, of course you can compare, and you have to compare when money is on the table
a white site and an enbloc site can be compared
sites of different uses can also be compared
One just has to make his/her own assumptions, as comparing all the other things in life
Maybe the comparison of Tulip Garden vs. JLD site is not that apparent
If there is a freehold pure residential site at the corner of paterson road and orchard boulevard asking for S$1250psf,
and a LH99 mixed use site at JLD asking for $1000psf
Is it valid to say that the orchard site cheaper?
Are they comparable? I would think they are
A sweeping statement saying land of different use are not comparable is not correct, you just have to set your parameters, just like when comparing other things, such as CAPL stock and parkway REIT share
No they are not comparable.
actually I think you are making sweeping *assumptions* mixing this property business and commercial business.
pure residential use has a simple funding, return , and accounting methods.
U r assuming commercial operations are the same. this is not true.
for example part of the bidder is CT, a reit. who practically already has the funding. the return goes to distribution. effectively you can say the said property has already been *pre-sold* to the said unit holders. And the return etc has no effect on the bottom line of CAPL itself as it's borne by the unit holder. (not 100% true though as CAPL also holds stake. it's complicated)
At the same time CT employs CMA to develop/manage the mall. and employs CCT to develop/manage the office. CT can charge high rates to them, thus artificially enhances the yield of the land. CMA and CCT are accounted separately. This makes the IRR of this transaction far from transparent (and simple).
And yes CAPL is totally not comparable to Parkway REIT! I dare say very very few ppl truly have the real picture of the financials of CAPL. I dun. The structure of its C* are too complex for me to analyze.
btw I just confirmed myself CapitaLand Residential has 0 stake in the "consortium". It's more and more clear to me this is for strategic commercial application for CAPL.
in a simpler language.
pure residential play: you buy A, spend some money doing it up, then sell A. case closed. return (or profit) is simply the sale price minus buy price.
commercial play: you buy A, spend some money doing it up, you purely rent it out to others. your return is what ? you never sell anything. But you own the asset, which can be accounted into your balance sheet. Value of which is determined at "market rate".
so how do u compare these 2 ? there is no basis.
No they are not comparable.
actually I think you are making sweeping *assumptions* mixing this property business and commercial business.
pure residential use has a simple funding, return , and accounting methods.
U r assuming commercial operations are the same. this is not true. I never assume that, actually, I have already said that the models for residential and mixed use are different
for example part of the bidder is CT, a reit. who practically already has the funding. the return goes to distribution. effectively you can say the said property has already been *pre-sold* to the said unit holders. And the return etc has no effect on the bottom line of CAPL itself as it's borne by the unit holder. (not 100% true though as CAPL also holds stake. it's complicated)
At the same time CT employs CMA to develop/manage the mall. and employs CCT to develop/manage the office. CT can charge high rates to them, thus artificially enhances the yield of the land. CMA and CCT are accounted separately. This makes the IRR of this transaction far from transparent (and simple).
You are right, the consortium structure can be complicated, and IRR can be far from transparent and simple, but it is still necessary for the consortium to make the investment decision
And yes CAPL is totally not comparable to Parkway REIT! I dare say very very few ppl truly have the real picture of the financials of CAPL. I dun. The structure of its C* are too complex for me to analyze.
CAPL and Parkway REIT are different, their business are not comparable.
On the other hand, both of them are stocks, and an investor can still compare the two by his own matrices, be it P/E, dividend yield, etc
When capital is limited but investment targets are many, one is forced to compare
btw I just confirmed myself CapitaLand Residential has 0 stake in the "consortium". It's more and more clear to me this is for strategic commercial application for CAPL.
In real life, one has to compare things of different nature; the key is to have valid and sensible assumptions
in a simpler language.
pure residential play: you buy A, spend some money doing it up, then sell A. case closed. return (or profit) is simply the sale price minus buy price.
commercial play: you buy A, spend some money doing it up, you purely rent it out to others. your return is what ? you never sell anything. But you own the asset, which can be accounted into your balance sheet. Value of which is determined at "market rate".
so how do u compare these 2 ? there is no basis.
Wrong. For commercial, one has to decide his/her investment horizon, and determine the terminal value at the end of the investment horizon. There is nothing called "you never sell anything"
Generally, pure for residential the investment horizon can be 5-6year. for commercial, it can be 10 years or longer or shorter
It is all up to each individual's decision
devilplate
27-05-11, 18:37
Wrong. For commercial, one has to decide his/her investment horizon, and determine the terminal value at the end of the investment horizon. There is nothing called "you never sell anything"
Generally, pure for residential the investment horizon can be 5-6year. for commercial, it can be 10 years or longer or shorter
It is all up to each individual's decision
As long there r assumptions n variables involved n different investment duration...there is no way u can make any conclusive comparison at this point in time for common folks like us to compare
Only the buyer can access his own variables n set his own parameter can do his comparison.
So, nobody other den the buyer can compare conclusively
devilplate
27-05-11, 18:40
I m more interested to noe y tanjong pagar white site sold for only 1kpsf just about 7mths ago...or rather y capl bidded 1kpsf for jurong
Just stand at Jurong East MRT/ bus interchange and you will see that the human traffic is extremely high and growing. Tanjong Pagar cannot match the intensity of human traffic.
Ok spincity let's just rest this case. It's like, can we compare 200k buying a BMW car against 10k buying a Kelly bag, which one is more value for money ? Everything under the sun is "comparable" in principle. To the extent such compare becomes rhetoric. The only meaningful compare would be apple to apple. In this case as devil suggested the tg pagar site compared to this one. We are taking about a *meaningful* comparism. Otherwise , why dun we compare any investment in the market with this ? I have 700mil should I buy this site or should I start a hedge fund ? In all cases i have my horizon and IRR in mind too
Just stand at Jurong East MRT/ bus interchange and you will see that the human traffic is extremely high and growing. Tanjong Pagar cannot match the intensity of human traffic.
I learn from some past commercial experience that, human traffic alone is important, but not decisive. See 313 orchard. Human traffic is very high, but the shop turnover is very low. This business is not easy. I certainly do not know the tricks in this trade :(
You need human traffic to generate walk-in customers to support retail and F&B. I think the future air-con mall (is there?) at Jurong East will be bigger and better than Jurong Point. Clementi already has a make-over and it is very successful. Tanjong Pagar is too quiet in the evening and at night to support retail. There are insufficient and dwindling number of parking lots too - a big mistake by URA planners.
I m more interested to noe y tanjong pagar white site sold for only 1kpsf just about 7mths ago...or rather y capl bidded 1kpsf for jurong
I suspect that it is due to the mix of each component
These two sites have different mixture of residential/office/retail/hotel required by URA
The jurong site might have more area for retail, which generate higher rent than office and more stable income than hotel, with lower operating expenses.
Capitaland is also known for the green thumb for retail mall
lastly, T.P. site was won by a developer (is it allgreen?), while the consortium for JLD site has two REIT in it. REIT requires lower return and cost of capital is also lower, so they can afford to pay a higher price
devilplate
27-05-11, 22:36
I suspect that it is due to the mix of each component
These two sites have different mixture of residential/office/retail/hotel required by URA
The jurong site might have more area for retail, which generate higher rent than office and more stable income than hotel, with lower operating expenses.
Capitaland is also known for the green thumb for retail mall
lastly, T.P. site was won by a developer (is it allgreen?), while the consortium for JLD site has two REIT in it. REIT requires lower return and cost of capital is also lower, so they can afford to pay a higher price
Tp won by guccoland
Hmmm...suburban retail rental also just slightly lower den orchard...
Ok sort of make sense. Hehe:D
However, tp site can make money from residential component....can easily sell for 2kpsf++
What price will TP site fetch if it was to be resold now? I say 30% more.
The other Jurong site won by LandLease was only $650 in June 2010.
So you can't compare land price of different time :tongue3:
Heard they are planning to re launch in June, July.... I think if no other bad news or new measures I thinkthisntime sure sell... Price is damn cheap today's market rate....
CCR - Do u mean Landlease will launch the whiteside next month ?
Do u think they will sell the retail unit or simply keep them and collect rental ? are they planning to build apartment on top just like the Jurong Point development ?
What will be the impact to the HDB shophouse opposite MRT once the 2 white sites are up ? do u think their rental will go up or come down ?
Just wondering whether it is better to invest in the HDB shophouse or the new whitesite unit (retail/office/apartment).
I mean tulip garden planning a second tender next month... If no other bad news and CM5 I think will sell... I heard Gucocland launching Leedon Residence in Jul, at 2200 to 2500 psf.... So at 1200 psf ppr, Tulip is cheap man.... Too bad I no money to buy land lol..... And for d'leedon, it's not true that it's not selling well k... They released two blocks, almost all units from 1-24 floors all sold out k, dont play play..... Only those above 25 where they are pricing it at a premium of above 2100 psf moving slower..... Rmournthey releasing another tower soon.... Akan datang
I mean tulip garden planning a second tender next month... If no other bad news and CM5 I think will sell... I heard Gucocland launching Leedon Residence in Jul, at 2200 to 2500 psf.... So at 1200 psf ppr, Tulip is cheap man.... Too bad I no money to buy land lol..... And for d'leedon, it's not true that it's not selling well k... They released two blocks, almost all units from 1-24 floors all sold out k, dont play play..... Only those above 25 where they are pricing it at a premium of above 2100 psf moving slower..... Rmournthey releasing another tower soon.... Akan datang Think Guccoland Leedon Residence is FH, and isn't this the one where they redo their showflat last year..., was suppose to launch few mths back...then CM4 came along...
Yup... Exactly that one.... As I drove by, the show flat almost done....
Yup... Exactly that one.... As I drove by, the show flat almost done....
quiet excited to see the quality of finishing since they tear down the showroom and rebuild it again after d'Leedon showcase such a big showroom.
Leedon Height plot of land is also big. My heart got out to the GCB owners nearby. After dleedon build finish, they get to continue the symphony for LH and possibility Tulip Garden sometime down the road.
devilplate
05-06-11, 10:30
quiet excited to see the quality of finishing since they tear down the showroom and rebuild it again after d'Leedon showcase such a big showroom.
Leedon Height plot of land is also big. My heart got out to the GCB owners nearby. After dleedon build finish, they get to continue the symphony for LH and possibility Tulip Garden sometime down the road.
this new project definitely got better furnishing and layout den dleedon....i mean dleedon using cheap homo tiles+laminates(bigger units got parquet but its actually cheaper den timber strips!)
this new project definitely got better furnishing and layout den dleedon....i mean dleedon using cheap homo tiles+laminates(bigger units got parquet but its actually cheaper den timber strips!)
DP, parque is same as timber strips lah. A quote i got from renotalk.com
""A parquet floor is a wooden floor made of small pieces of wood put together.
In Singapore, when the term "parquet" is used, it is normally understood to mean small solid wood pieces. Above a certain size of the pieces, it is then referred to as timber or timber strip. So in terms of durability and wear, parquet and timber flooring would be the same, assuming same wood used.
In terms of cost, parquet is cheaper. In terms of looks, that's personal. The usual thought though is that larger timber strips look nicer. Now, people may think that parquet flooring looks dated, but look at mosaic tiles for bathrooms -- you wait long enough, from dated, it then comes back into fashion as retro! ""
Durability depend on type of wood used.
Parquet because of small size tend to pop up easily over time here & there & need to keep getting contractors to stick back. Seen too many cases of that. Could be due to small surface to stick to floor & expansion & contraction? No such problem with big piece of timber strips. As the saying goes: pay 1 ct money get act material.
DP, parque is same as timber strips lah. A quote i got from renotalk.com
""A parquet floor is a wooden floor made of small pieces of wood put together.
In Singapore, when the term "parquet" is used, it is normally understood to mean small solid wood pieces. Above a certain size of the pieces, it is then referred to as timber or timber strip. So in terms of durability and wear, parquet and timber flooring would be the same, assuming same wood used.
In terms of cost, parquet is cheaper. In terms of looks, that's personal. The usual thought though is that larger timber strips look nicer. Now, people may think that parquet flooring looks dated, but look at mosaic tiles for bathrooms -- you wait long enough, from dated, it then comes back into fashion as retro! ""
DP, parque is same as timber strips lah. A quote i got from renotalk.com
""A parquet floor is a wooden floor made of small pieces of wood put together.
In terms of cost, parquet is cheaper. In terms of looks, that's personal. The usual thought though is that larger timber strips look nicer. Now, people may think that parquet flooring looks dated, but look at mosaic tiles for bathrooms -- you wait long enough, from dated, it then comes back into fashion as retro! ""
Normally, longer and wider timber strips are much more expensive....than parquet. For me, big timber strips look nicer...
Durability depend on type of wood used.
Parquet because of small size tend to pop up easily over time here & there & need to keep getting contractors to stick back. Seen too many cases of that. Could be due to small surface to stick to floor & expansion & contraction? No such problem with big piece of timber strips. As the saying goes: pay 1 ct money get act material.
bro, i not sure about parque..... but doesnt larger piece of wood warp easlier? That what contractors tell me..... the difference here is minute issnt it. Just that 10cm longer will be so much difference? Wood dont expand much ba, its a bad conductor of heat. Any bros here have them on your properties? I think the pricing is just marketing difference or positioning strategies.
I think quality of wood, perhaps teak will be preferred perhaps.
devilplate
05-06-11, 11:35
those big big piece engineered timber flooring is da best.....gd for humid weather
i started a new thread on discussion on finishing! LEts shift the discussion there.
Don't think so. Do you see those solid wood table surface warp? No right? Good solid wood won't warp. I never see any solid wood flooring warp. Those you see are the compressed or engineered wood? :scared-2:
For sure small piece parquet can pop easily. I have seen that too often in landed properties where they used to use small pieces parquet for flooring of bedrooms.
These are not marketing difference but advantages in bigger piece timber woods vs small piece parquets.
bro, i not sure about parque..... but doesnt larger piece of wood warp easlier? That what contractors tell me..... the difference here is minute issnt it. Just that 10cm longer will be so much difference? Wood dont expand much ba, its a bad conductor of heat. Any bros here have them on your properties? I think the pricing is just marketing difference or positioning strategies.
I think quality of wood, perhaps teak will be preferred perhaps.
devilplate
05-06-11, 13:13
Don't think so. Do you see those solid wood table surface warp? No right? Good solid wood won't warp. I never see any solid wood flooring warp. Those you see are the compressed or engineered wood? :scared-2:
For sure small piece parquet can pop easily. I have seen that too often in landed properties where they used to use small pieces parquet for flooring of bedrooms.
These are not marketing difference but advantages in bigger piece timber woods vs small piece parquets.
gd quality enigneered wood better den same quality solid wood
no gapping/cupping watever....:spliff:
Wild Falcon
06-06-11, 10:16
Not the same. It's like a large piece of solid marble vs broken marble. The worst is laminate, i.e. sticker.
DP, parque is same as timber strips lah. A quote i got from renotalk.com
""A parquet floor is a wooden floor made of small pieces of wood put together.
In Singapore, when the term "parquet" is used, it is normally understood to mean small solid wood pieces. Above a certain size of the pieces, it is then referred to as timber or timber strip. So in terms of durability and wear, parquet and timber flooring would be the same, assuming same wood used.
In terms of cost, parquet is cheaper. In terms of looks, that's personal. The usual thought though is that larger timber strips look nicer. Now, people may think that parquet flooring looks dated, but look at mosaic tiles for bathrooms -- you wait long enough, from dated, it then comes back into fashion as retro! ""
Wild Falcon
06-06-11, 10:33
wat is engineered timber flooring? Gypson board (i.e. plywood) with laminate as the top layer? I dun want to get into too much discussion on this but if u think about it, if u have a large diamond with superb 5 Cs or a good large piece of wood or marble which u sell at a premium, why would u cut it up into scraps to make plywood or gypson board? In short, once its engineered wood (plywood?), u can be assured that it is the inferior quality that has been rejected (i.e. waste), and the shreds are stuck together with some glue to form engineered wood. The BEST quality timber or teak will NOT be cut into shreds to make plywood. So, once your flooring is made of plywood with laminate, u can be sure, these are already the "rejected" wood/timber that cannot be sold whole. Similarly for broken marble. Because when u find a nice piece of marble with consistent colour, it is unlikely u cut it into a million pieces and sell as broken marble. in short, it is already inferior product to begin with.
those big big piece engineered timber flooring is da best.....gd for humid weather
Fact of the matter from a contractor friend ( apply to natural wood; not engineering wood), this is what i heard:
1. Small piece of timber strip or parquet is cheaper and also easier for contractor to lay. Even if flood is not that flat after the screeding of the floor, small pieces easier to place. But disadvantage is more joints, more points of weakness and more likehood of hollow after time.
2. Wider timber strip or parquet is certainly more expensive. Contractor doing the floor screed surface need to more skillful and make sure it is more flat and less tolerance. Of course less joints, mean chance of hollowness compared to smaller strips.
devilplate
06-06-11, 10:36
wat is engineered timber flooring? Gypson board (i.e. plywood) with laminate as the top layer? I dun want to get into too much discussion on this but if u think about it, if u have a large diamond with superb 5 Cs or a good large piece of wood or marble which u sell at a premium, why would u cut it up into scraps to make plywood or gypson board? In short, once its engineered wood (plywood?), u can be assured that it is the inferior quality that has been rejected (i.e. waste), and the shreds are stuck together with some glue to form engineered wood. The BEST quality timber or teak will NOT be cut into shreds to make plywood. So, once your flooring is made of plywood with laminate, u can be sure, these are already the "rejected" wood/timber that cannot be sold whole. Similarly for broken marble. Because when u find a nice piece of marble with consistent colour, it is unlikely u cut it into a million pieces and sell as broken marble. in short, it is already inferior product to begin with.
y argue wif me?
just google the answer for urself
So tulip garden can go en bloc?
Wild Falcon
06-06-11, 16:46
Google definitely didn't tell me that engineered wood is the best as you've stated - unless u're using a different google. I just find the statement "engineered wood better than solid wood" a misleading statement that need some clarification. Anyway, to each his own.
y argue wif me?
just google the answer for urself
proud owner
06-06-11, 22:38
Google definitely didn't tell me that engineered wood is the best as you've stated - unless u're using a different google. I just find the statement "engineered wood better than solid wood" a misleading statement that need some clarification. Anyway, to each his own.
engineered wood ... was invented as an alternatives to solid wood ...
as solid wood becomes more and more expensive, more and more rare and people are trying hard to not cut down trees ...
they maybe AS DURABLE AS solid wood ... but definitely not better
for those who is GREEN friendly and find cost a concern, then engineered wood is a good choice
devilplate
07-06-11, 00:41
Good quality engineered wood can b more ex den solid wood n cfm less cupping/gapping over the yrs:D
Anyway shall stop now....i machiam tok like i m selling enginered wood....hahaha:p
TG in the news yet again, like never ending saga, asking price down now:
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporebusinessnews/view/1136597/1/.html
Tulip Garden in collective sale bid
By Julie Quek | Posted: 22 June 2011 2134 hrs
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/imagegallery/store/phpslJZhx.jpg Photos 1 of 1 " src="http://www.channelnewsasia.com/images/butt_next.gif" width=18 height=15 type=image>http://www.channelnewsasia.com/images/dotline_240.gif
Tulip Garden
SINGAPORE: Tulip Garden has re-launched its collective sale, after its last unsuccessful tender exercise that closed in January this year.
Credo Real Estate, which is handling the sale, said the owners of the 164-unit development are asking a minimum S$600 million, down from the previous price of S$650 million.
Credo said the majority of the owners present at an extraordinary general meeting last month voted in favour of seeking a written mandate from at least 80 per cent of the owners to lower the reserve price.
Credo added while the process is still ongoing, the collective sale committee has decided to relaunch the tender exercise.
At an asking price of S$600 million, developers are looking at an effective land cost of about S$1,153 per square foot per plot ratio, based on the allowable plot ratio of 1.6425.
Should the developer choose to maximise the potential 10 per cent allowable space for balconies, the effective land cost could be lowered to S$1,118 per square foot per plot ratio, after factoring in development charge of some S$23 million.
Tulip Garden has a total gross floor area of about 557.4 thousand square feet, which includes the additional 10 per cent balcony.
The development can potentially yield about 400 apartments, with an average size of 1,325 square feet, depending on layout.
Tulip Garden is located at the corner of Holland Road and Farrer Road in the prime district 10 area.
The tender closes on July 19.
-CNA/wk
So will it go thru this time?
kingkong1984
23-06-11, 08:11
Should go thru.
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/news/story/0,4574,444451,00.html?
Published June 23, 2011
Tulip Garden relaunched for en bloc sale
By UMA SHANKARI
TULIP Garden at Farrer Road, which couldn't find a buyer in its last en bloc attempt, has been relaunched for sale.
Marketing agent Credo Real Estate is seeking a new mandate from owners to lower the reserve price to $600 million from $650 million previously.
This lowers the effective land cost to $1,118 per square foot per plot ratio (psf ppr) - assuming that the purchaser chooses to maximise the potential 10 per cent space allowed for balconies and including a $23 million development charge.
The land cost was $1,250 psf ppr at the previous tender exercise, which closed in January this year.
The tender was relaunched after the 164-unit property's collective sale committee (CSC) convened an extraordinary general meeting last month to ask owners to vote on whether to maintain the minimum price or lower it.
The majority of the owners at the meeting voted to get a written mandate from at least 80 per cent of all owners to reduce the reserve price.
The CSC has decided to relaunch the tender while that process is still ongoing, Credo said.
'At the close of the new tender on July 19, if the best bid is supported by an independent valuer's advice and falls between $600 million and $650 million, the CSC would be in a position to accept - if by that time, the process of lowering the reserve price is complete,' said Credo managing director Karamjit Singh. 'If the best bid is higher than $650 million, then the CSC would not need to wait for the new mandate to be completed.'
Tulip Garden was sold en bloc for $516 million in July 2007, but the deal fell through when the buyer - a consortium led by Bravo Building Construction - backed out in 2008 after it had trouble raising funds.
Elsewhere, Balmoral Condominium along Balmoral Road has been sold in a en bloc deal for $141 million ($1,546 psf ppr) to a consortium consisting of Tiong Seng Holdings, Tong Eng Group and Clarus Corporation.
The existing development comprises 45 apartments. Each owner will potentially receive between $2.85 million and $3.26 million, depending on their apartment's size, said Savills Singapore, which brokered the deal.
'The land price of $1,546 psf ppr is a record land rate since the collective sale of Westwood Apartments at $2,525 psf ppr in 2007 which, incidentally, was also brokered by Savills,' said Suzie Mok, Savills director of investment sales. 'This transaction should give a boost to the high-end residential segment as current prices are still below the peak levels seen in 2007.'
The site can accommodate around 80 apartments averaging 1,100-1,200 sq ft, Savills said. The breakeven price for the new development is estimated at $2,200-2,300 psf.
Balmoral Condominium is Savills' third collective sale for the year following Newton View at $147.6 million and Amber Towers at $161.6 million in March and April respectively.
Anyone heard anything on tulip garden results? Are there any bidders?
Hi anyone heard anything? The tender close today
no news means no deal lor ~
no news means no deal lor ~
The best scenario for no news means no offer above the reserve price but still got interests, and agent has 10 weeks to work out a private treaty
proud owner
21-07-11, 11:08
The best scenario for no news means no offer above the reserve price but still got interests, and agent has 10 weeks to work out a private treaty
apart from fellow Tulip Gardeners (hehe)
does anyone feel that its location is good ?
taking into consideration ..its entrance being on a slip road ... close to a cross junction ...etc
Quite a few FH condo enblocs in D13 iin the last 6 months. Could be the city fringe locaiton and quantum is not that large.
stalingrad
21-07-11, 13:28
sold at 516m and now asking for merely 600m. so between 2007 and 2011, price has at most risen by 16% for that area, while prices for OCR have almost doubled.
I doubt it will sell even at 600m. that area does not look very high end in my view. lots of HDB nearby.
apart from fellow Tulip Gardeners (hehe)
does anyone feel that its location is good ?
taking into consideration ..its entrance being on a slip road ... close to a cross junction ...etc
Any developer who buy this plot will either use leedonheights or holland road as the main entrance....
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