View Full Version : ST journo: "We want a flat in a convenient location..."
Feel like slapping her. The world doesn't owe you a living, BITCH! What's next? Govt should provide everybody with a sea view, high floor, near MRT, etc etc? How does this sort of drivel get published in the ST? More importantly, how did a 'journalist' of this sort of quality get employment with the Singapore Press Holdings?
http://www.straitstimes.com/Think/Story/STIStory_678899.html
Jun 12, 2011
We want a flat in a convenient location...
First-time owners may not need to settle for less if mature estates get more BTO units
By Gladys Chung
I am getting married in six months. But my fiance and I have not settled on a flat yet as we are hoping to get a new Build-to-Order (BTO) Housing Board unit in a mature estate. In the meantime, we will be bunking in with my in-laws.
We sing the same tune as many other young couples: We want to be in a convenient location - one that's near our parents and in-laws. We are in our late 20s and cannot afford to pay $1 million or more for private housing. We don't want to spend on a pricey resale HDB flat either.
Anyway, I believe there's more to life than being shackled to an exorbitant housing loan for 30 years.
Like my fiance, who works in a bank, I don't see the point of buying a home in an outlying estate for a lower price when we will end up spending more on transport. For me, settling for such a flat just because it is more affordable and I have a greater chance of getting one, is as flawed a decision as buying an ill-fitting skirt just because it is on discount.
We were among the thousands rejected for the Dawson BTO flats in Queenstown that were launched in 2009. The combined 1,718 flats at SkyVille@Dawson and Sky Terrace@Dawson garnered 10,098 applications.
Apart from balloting for some leftover flats in Hougang last year - again, we were not selected - we haven't applied for a flat since because most of the BTOs were not in areas we favour. My parents live in Serangoon Gardens, so I hope to get a flat in Bishan, Ang Mo Kio or Toa Payoh.
My fiance and I were even wondering if we should leave Singapore and explore options elsewhere - since we could not afford to buy a home here in a location we loved, we thought we might as well delay our plans to have a baby right after marriage, relocate somewhere with more exciting opportunities and pay rent.
Then, Mr Khaw Boon Wan came into the picture. Just weeks after he took over the reins at the Ministry of National Development in May, he stated in a post on his Housing Matters blog that he was looking to 'put up more sites in mature estates'.
'We... should try to meet the aspirations of many young couples wanting to set up nests near their parents,' he wrote. He also mentioned that mature estates such as Kallang/Whampoa could be BTO sites next year.
To us, his words signalled a shift in policy as his predecessor Mah Bow Tan had said that most of the BTO supply would be located in non-mature estates such as Sengkang, Punggol and Sembawang.
Naturally, I was thrilled by Mr Khaw's words. I have returned to daydreaming about owning a home that is near suburban malls, established facilities, a bus interchange and an MRT station - instead of one in a foreign land. I have signed up for the HDB eAlert Service so I can be kept informed of the latest launches, and I am all ready to ballot for a flat in my dream location.
For now, allow me to make some suggestions about how the Government can make lives easier for young couples looking for their first homes.
Sacrifice some Government land parcels in mature estates and allocate them for BTO flats instead of selling them to private developers.
Filling government coffers should come second to ensuring that young couples can afford to buy homes they want to live in - especially since the local birth rate hit at an all-time low of 1.16 last year, down from 1.22 in 2009, and way below the replacement level of 2.1.
Do away with the minimum occupation period (MOP) of five years for first-time home owners.
If couples have to buy a flat from an outlying estate in order to own a home, then allow them to rent out the whole flat without having to wait out the MOP. For my fiance and myself, the money would help us save enough to eventually buy another place near our parents. Meanwhile, we could live with my in-laws, who will be a great help when I have children.
There are ways to avoid abuse by opportunists.
Currently, HDB flat owners are not allowed to own a private property during the MOP. Thus, no one can vie for an HDB flat just so they can earn rental income while living in a private property of their own elsewhere.
Furthermore, there is a dearth of rental flats for divorcees with children who need temporary accommodation, as Mr Khaw pointed out at a youth forum last month. First-time home owners who want to rent out their flats can be matched with these divorcees, or with young Singaporean couples who need an interim space before they buy their own homes.
Work on improving facilities and transportation systems in non-mature estates.
Build more MRT stations, suburban malls and facilities in these areas. Once Sengkang or Bukit Panjang looks like another bustling Serangoon Central or Bishan, who wouldn't want to live there?
[email protected]
The writer is with The Straits Times Urban magazine.
Regulators
13-06-11, 02:47
she missed the dawson boat so griping about with some stupid suggestions. The worst one suggesting removing MOP and allowing people to rent out their flats while waiting for their ideal homes elsewhere. She also mildly threatened to leave the country to settle elsewhere with her future husband if they can't afford to buy a home here. She is obviously lying coz how could she and her husband, who are both professionals (assuming her husband is also a white collar worker) and both earning at least $3-4k a month not even be able to afford a resale HDB flat? When I was her age, I never complained like her nor did i grumble that my first flat cost 4 times what my mother paid for her flat. I think the Gen Ys should really get their blooming act together and work more than complain.
"We want a flat near our parents..."
"We want...."
"We want...."
"We deserve...."
"Govt should give us...."
"Govt owes us this... That..."
"We... We.... We.... It is all about Me Myself and I!"
See? That's why this young generation desperately needs to be screwed by new PRs and FTs so that they can friggin wake up and not bring this country to ruin.
The entire country of Singapore is not even the size of London or Tokyo. People travel hours on public transport just to get to work from the suburban homes in the major cities around the world.
How near their parents do these whiney Singaporeans want? I suspect this has a lot to do with making use of parents as babysitters.
Look here people! Couples with young children do not even have maids in the USA, UK, Australia, Japan, etc., much less even think of utilising their parents as babysitters and surrogate parents. And they move out of their parents' home and start to support themselves as soon as they graduate, some even before they started uni. If homes are too expensive, they rent and save up to purchase later on in life.
Young Singaporeans want it all, want it now, and expect the govt to hand it to them on a platter.
I propose more FTs to give a tight slap, give more competition and a lesson in weathering adversity, hardship and humility and wake this fffuuuccckkkked up Young Singaporean Generation up!
Her intent;
a) buy a cheap bto in matured estate to flip after 5yrs etc Dawnson or pinnacle duxton
b) to remove mop for rental
c) want the fast way to riches through properties but through her favourable way.
Ok, can the new minister kindly think of new ways to whack these youngbies.
I seen too many youngster are getting marry early for the sake of getting a hdb and fear of missing out the property boat.
* mop of 10-15yrs min if getting the full grant.
We need more FTs here to teach these soft, spoilt, crybaby Singaporeans a lesson.
Whatever happened to the hard driving, hardworking, weather all storms attitude of our forefathers'?
My parents did not complain when they started their married life in a rented room in Holland Drive far far away from their parents. They also did not complain when i was born and had to live in that rented room with them!
They kept their heads down, worked hard, saved hard, led a frugal life and bought themselves a Farrer Rd HUDC a few years later.
Fast forward a few more years, they traded in their HUDC for a terrace house in Bukit Timah.
Fast forward some more, they started accumulating apartment and condo units as investment properties in the central Singapore region, riding out the ups and downs of the property market, but mostly ups.
The rest, as they say, is history.
Why can't this generation endure hardship and be brave in the face of adversity? This is not even about having to live in a rented room for Christ's sake.... This is a soft spoilt Singaporean crying about having to live in a perfectly nice, new, spacious (compared to my parents' experience) HDB, albeit further away from her parents!
She sounds partially logical to me, from the perspective of benefiting from the property boom. Gen Ys don't have the option of buying an affordable HDB that they can repay in less than 20 years. The discount from HDB for 1st timers has been essentially the same for so many years despite rocketing HDB prices. Renting is not a prudent option as it is very expensive nowadays. Starting pay for fresh degree graduates is about $3k, almost the same about 10 years+ ago. Whatever little they save they have to pay for inflated food and good prices. Because of the high HDB prices and new policies to flood the housing market, they will not benefit much from the slow price appreciation.
Let them migrate,but i doubt they possess any skill set or wealth to migrate.
Jerk , they disgraced true blooded singaporean who work hard.
This country is the place for only the best. If you are not the best you have to go. Let her go....:D
the younger generation has an overwhelming sense of entitlement...
in short, her real intention is to make use of subsidised HDB to fulfil her million $ dream in a short period of time. knn this type of ppl should kick them to india where she can get her dream big house at low cost!! hopeless Gen Y. if govt continue to pamper this generation jus to gain vote. spore will sure down within 2 generation!!
Maybe possible if she is the only citizen in Singapore. She can have the whole Singapore by herself and live in whichever areas she likes, from N.S.E.W. :tongue3:
Govt said HDB is for people to stay and not for them to make money, that's why they come up with so many rules and regulations and yet she is trying to ask the govt to waive off all these rules for the 1st timers just because she is the 1st timer too and she wants to earn easy and quick money through rental. Ya, maybe we should also voice out to the govt to allow the 2nd timer to buy the HDB flat for the 3rd time, 4th time and so forth as long as we want it, if not, all of us will migrate to other countries also, hahaha:cool:
actually why are you all pissed off?
Is it like the situation where you all worked for 5 years, and new hire get same salary like you?
Or is it because if government entertained her ideas, she come to wealth easily and you are pissed off because last time, you should have made lots of noises instead of being silent sheep?
Examine the root cause of your dissatisfaction with the writer.
the way i see it, a lot of you are just jealous if government really entertain her ideas. Do you expect descendants to suffer the same hardship as us? Does our grandparents expect us to draw water from well and shit in the bucket? Does our grandparents expect us to eat yam, cocoyam because there is no rice to eat during WW2?
So if her generation has things easy, good for her generation. This is called progress. And yes, parents worked hard so that their children no need to suffer as they do, right?
And please speak up for what you want.
devilplate
13-06-11, 09:48
u see....tats wat the new gen of sg....
sg got nothing except human capital......but wif such new gen....
future of Sg is not promising anymore:(
thomastansb
13-06-11, 09:49
We want a car with convenient engine...
By Thomas
I am getting married in six months. But my fiancee and I have not settled on a car yet as we are hoping to get a Lamborghini with 850 horsepower. In the meantime, we will be sharing my brother's BMW.
We sing the same tune as many other young couples: We want to drive a better car - one that's fast and good looking. We are in our late 20s and cannot afford to pay $1 million or more for Lamborghini. We don't want to spend on a pricey car either.
Anyway, I believe there's more to life than being shackled to an exorbitant car loan for 10 years.
Like my fiance, who works in a bank, I don't see the point of buying a car with a lower horsepower for a lower price when we will end up spending more on upping the horsepower. For me, settling for such a car just because it is more affordable and I have a greater chance of getting one, is as flawed a decision as buying an ill-fitting skirt just because it is on discount.
We were among the thousands rejected for the limited edition Lamborghini in Italy that were launched in 2009. The combined 1,718 cars at Italy and Spain garnered 10,098 applications.
Apart from balloting for some leftover BMW in Germany last year - again, we were not selected - we haven't applied for a car since because most of the cars were not in areas we favour. My parents drive a Mercedes SLK so I hope to get a car like Rolls Royce, Bentley, Aston Martin, Lamborghini, or Maserati.
My fiance and I were even wondering if we should leave Singapore and explore options elsewhere like US where cars are dirt cheap - since we could not afford to buy a Luxury car here we loved, we thought we might as well delay our plans to have a baby right after marriage, relocate somewhere with more exciting opportunities buy it.
I hope the transport ministry can subsidies luxury cars heavily because it is our aspiration to own one. You see, we are not high income earners but we don't want to be one either because this calls for higher responsibilities and higher work load. Something that lazy people like us wouldn't want. My parents have asked me to be as thick skinned as possible - just to get things my way. We hope that by writing to LTA, they will subsidize lazy, stupid, don't want to work, greedy and daft people like us, 90% of the car price. It is not that we can't work harder, we absolutely don't want to work. If possible, I hope the Government can give us 3 (or 6 if possible) meals a day in mid-posh restaurants. If Petrol is free as well, I will definitely vote for you in GE 2016. I am not sure where you are going to get the money from and I don't care if anyone suffers because the money is spent to subsidise my nice car.
A true bred and born cheapskate inconsiderate daft Singaporean
the way i see it, a lot of you are just jealous if government really entertain her ideas.
no I'm not jealous. I'm just very very sad to see our next generation are becoming like that. Everything "I want". Everything "gov give". 20yrs or 30yrs later when this group become the ones running the show, SG will be dead. I'm very sad to see such a bleak future of our country. I've said many many times in this forum alone: dun even assume SGD is a "strong" currency; SG can fall *very very* fast.
govt really must do something to teach the next gen. they must start from the basic 做人道理. so is the job of the new education minister. jus like 刘备 philosophy, 先收人心，后治天下. the root of evil come from human greed. parent must also do our part to education the next gen
thomastansb
13-06-11, 10:01
I fully agree with you. They want to buy at 25k and sell at 1 million dollars. Lazy and stupid. Why stupid? When their parents bought the flat, Singapore is nothing. No MRT, no shopping mall and no clean water. What about security, job prospects etc??? Now, everything developed of course prices go up lah. Stupid assholes. Which developed country has housing this cheap, this nice? 250k BTO, nice and new. 4 bedrooms also.
Now, travelling 20KM to town is considered as screwed up??????? Okay, I admit our transport systems is really in need of serious improvement but I cannot imagine people complaining it is far. Have these frog-in-the-well myopic daft idiots seen other countries? Do these ignorant people know how much an unit will cost in the city???
no I'm not jealous. I'm just very very sad to see our next generation are becoming like that. Everything "I want". Everything "gov give". 20yrs or 30yrs later when this group become the ones running the show, SG will be dead. I'm very sad to see such a bleak future of our country. I've said many many times in this forum alone: dun even assume SGD is a "strong" currency; SG can fall *very very* fast.
thomastansb
13-06-11, 10:04
The writer is pretty clear on this. She wants to live near the city but she is too cheapo to pay. She said it herself, not me. Also, she can't stand travelling 20KM either because it is very very "far".
actually why are you all pissed off?
Is it like the situation where you all worked for 5 years, and new hire get same salary like you?
Or is it because if government entertained her ideas, she come to wealth easily and you are pissed off because last time, you should have made lots of noises instead of being silent sheep?
Examine the root cause of your dissatisfaction with the writer.
proud owner
13-06-11, 10:06
she said her fiance is a banker ...
shes a writer ...
combine salary should be quite ok ..
but she said they cannot afford a $1mio private condo ... YET they can afford to migrate ? BS !!!!
shes using the threatening tactics
her parent in law live in serangoon gardens ( landed...so can be considered well to do ) ... and want to be near them ... i dont think resale HDB in serangoon / serangoon north is expensive leh
think they want NEW NEW ...
and Thomas ... good one
Last time, your parents take 20 year loan. now you take 30 year loan. you want your children to take 40 year loan ?
Just because malls everywhere, transport convenient and have aircon, so in the name of progress, each subsequent generation take longer and longer loans?
proud owner
13-06-11, 10:09
The writer is pretty clear on this. She wants to live near the city but she is too cheapo to pay. She said it herself, not me. Also, she can't stand travelling 20KM either because it is very very "far".
i suggest she should reconsider getting married ...
to that banker fiance ...
she should just look for some rich china man ...
NorthernStar
13-06-11, 10:13
We want a car with convenient engine...
By Thomas
I am getting married in six months. But my fiancee and I have not settled on a car yet as we are hoping to get a Lamborghini with 850 horsepower. In the meantime, we will be sharing my brother's BMW.
We sing the same tune as many other young couples: We want to drive a better car - one that's fast and good looking. We are in our late 20s and cannot afford to pay $1 million or more for Lamborghini. We don't want to spend on a pricey car either.
Anyway, I believe there's more to life than being shackled to an exorbitant car loan for 10 years.
Like my fiance, who works in a bank, I don't see the point of buying a car with a lower horsepower for a lower price when we will end up spending more on upping the horsepower. For me, settling for such a car just because it is more affordable and I have a greater chance of getting one, is as flawed a decision as buying an ill-fitting skirt just because it is on discount.
We were among the thousands rejected for the limited edition Lamborghini in Italy that were launched in 2009. The combined 1,718 cars at Italy and Spain garnered 10,098 applications.
Apart from balloting for some leftover BMW in Germany last year - again, we were not selected - we haven't applied for a car since because most of the cars were not in areas we favour. My parents drive a Mercedes SLK so I hope to get a car like Rolls Royce, Bentley, Aston Martin, Lamborghini, or Maserati.
My fiance and I were even wondering if we should leave Singapore and explore options elsewhere like US where cars are dirt cheap - since we could not afford to buy a Luxury car here we loved, we thought we might as well delay our plans to have a baby right after marriage, relocate somewhere with more exciting opportunities buy it.
I hope the transport ministry can subsidies luxury cars heavily because it is our aspiration to own one. You see, we are not high income earners but we don't want to be one either because this calls for higher responsibilities and higher work load. Something that lazy people like us wouldn't want. My parents have asked me to be as thick skinned as possible - just to get things my way. We hope that by writing to LTA, they will subsidize lazy, stupid, don't want to work, greedy and daft people like us, 90% of the car price. It is not that we can't work harder, we absolutely don't want to work. If possible, I hope the Government can give us 3 (or 6 if possible) meals a day in mid-posh restaurants. If Petrol is free as well, I will definitely vote for you in GE 2016. I am not sure where you are going to get the money from and I don't care if anyone suffers because the money is spent to subsidise my nice car.
A true bred and born cheapskate inconsiderate daft Singaporean
Thumb up! :)
she said her fiance is a banker ...
shes a writer ...
combine salary should be quite ok ..
but she said they cannot afford a $1mio private condo ... YET they can afford to migrate ? BS !!!! .......
her fiance works in a bank.....security guard, janitor, mail boy also works in a bank :beats-me-man:
thomastansb
13-06-11, 10:17
But I don't want my children to have lousy security, no MRT, no clean water. You want? I guess that is how economy works. You can't have a super developed city with low asset price. You have one to name?
Last time, your parents take 20 year loan. now you take 30 year loan. you want your children to take 40 year loan ?
Just because malls everywhere, transport convenient and have aircon, so in the name of progress, each subsequent generation take longer and longer loans?
thomastansb
13-06-11, 10:20
Then still so fussy ah? No money but can buy Dawson BTO? Then those buy 3 bedroom how?
her fiance works in a bank.....security guard, janitor, mail boy also works in a bank :beats-me-man:
If she balloted for a flat in Sembawang, Yishun, Punggol or Sengkang, she needn't pay through her nose for a 40 year loan and can still be near her parents. Those flats, especially when bought direct from the HDB, are very fairly-priced and affordable to say the least.
I think the prices of flats overall accross Singapore are fine. It is only the flat prices in "hot" regions near the CBD that are ridiculous, being 2 or 3 times the price of flats elsewhere. Well it is demand and supply right?
Like what Thomas said, you can easily afford to buy a Toyota Camry but insist on govt subsidising you and giving you an insider's special discount on the price of a Porsche Cayenne Turbo so that you can afford to buy it and travel in luxury, performance and style. What is this world coming to?
The opposition political parties are not doing Singapore a favour by pandering to these people. You should see how SDP are lobbying their platform. Truly stupid and short sighted. They think Singapore is a city in a big powerful country like USA or UK. Work life balance my foot.
proud owner
13-06-11, 10:26
her fiance works in a bank.....security guard, janitor, mail boy also works in a bank :beats-me-man:
thats right
she said Bank ... too shy to say what department ..
when she tells her friend her fiance works in a bank ... all goes WOW ...
could be a male clerk ... or mail clerk ..
she also didnt say which bank ... a mail clerk in UBS maybe paid more than a junior officer in ..bank of pakistan, singapore, rep office ... ( if it exists)
But I don't want my children to have lousy security, no MRT, no clean water. You want? I guess that is how economy works. You can't have a super developed city with low asset price. You have one to name?
Hmm, cannot think of one, still a frog in a well.
So you are prepared for your descendants to take 40-50 year loans for HDB? and for private properties multi-generation 60-70 year loans? Guess that's how economy works?
Looks like I am the lonely voice here. But kudos to Gen Y, they know what they want and willing to speak up.
Many young couples and people complaining about high property prices are not telling the whole truth.
The truth is, they can easily afford flats in outlying areas, but they don't want those.
The truth is that they want HDB in prime areas like Queesntown, Kallang, Boonkeng, Marine Parade but cannot afford.
The truth is they want condo after making a killing off their prime HDB in a few years time.
Thye think they are entitled to all these.
These are the hard truths.
Please Mr Khaw, don't be taken in by the cries of these self-serving people!
thomastansb
13-06-11, 10:29
You still can have work life balance. But your expectation must be right. Why Dawson is hot is because everyone wants a piece. This writer wants to stay near city and want to earn as much as her parents easily in a short time.
At 250k loan (flat cost 300k), you need to pay around 1k from CPF a month I guess? +- a bit lah. 1k very ex for them? If it is ex, then get a 200k 3 bedroom? Then we go round and round again. She want good location but don't want to pay :doh::doh: Disgusting.
If she balloted for a flat in Sembawang, Yishun, Punggol or Sengkang, she needn't pay through her nose for a 40 year loan and can still be near her parents. Those flats, especially when bought direct from the HDB, are very fairly-priced and affordable to say the least.
I think the prices of flats overall accross Singapore are fine. It is only the flat prices in "hot" regions near the CBD that are ridiculous, being 2 or 3 times the price of flats elsewhere. Well it is demand and supply right?
Like what Thomas said, you can easily afford to buy a Toyota Camry but insist on govt subsidising you and giving you an insider's special discount on the price of a Porsche Cayenne Turbo so that you can afford to buy it and travel in luxury, performance and style. What is this world coming to?
The opposition political parties are not doing Singapore a favour by pandering to these people. You should see how SDP are lobbying their platform. Truly stupid and short sighted. They think Singapore is a city in a big powerful country like USA or UK. Work life balance my foot.
proud owner
13-06-11, 10:31
You still can have work life balance. But your expectation must be right. Why Dawson is hot is because everyone wants a piece. This writer wants to stay near city and want to earn as much as her parents easily in a short time.
At 250k loan (flat cost 300k), you need to pay around 1k from CPF a month I guess? +- a bit lah. 1k very ex for them? If it is ex, then get a 200k 3 bedroom? Then we go round and round again. She want good location but don't want to pay :doh::doh: Disgusting.
she wants "fresh"
she wants 'cheap'
she wants ' big breasts'
also to bring home and 'stir coffee'
Wild Falcon
13-06-11, 10:53
Why is this published in the first place? Someone who is self-centered to the core - wants best location HDB like Dawson and Queenstown highly subsidised to make maximum gains, and at the same time ask for MOP to be abolished? And want to be able to get her flat and immediately sell or rent out? How can anyone be so self-centered? Did she realise that the subsidy comes at the expense of all other tax payers, some of whom earn less than her? Goodness me. How low can one get?
devilplate
13-06-11, 10:55
youngsters vote for opposition for???
really for check n balance? or ?
i really wonder:rolleyes:
Wild Falcon
13-06-11, 11:02
Not all youngsters are like that lah. Many of them are ok with living in new areas. Voting for opposition acts a a good check and balance on all areas. But this woman is so spoilt and shallow and scream ME ME ME, she takes the cake. No proper analysis. Just say she wants only best location, high floor in Queenstown etc. And she wants no MOP and can be able to rent out and immediately resell at a huge profit for her personal interest. Unbelievable. If u're getting a subsidised flat to immediately resell (ie no MOP) or rent, then it just shows u don't need a flat isn't it? And she is a journalist and her husband a "banker" right who presumably has a bright future by working hard and not depending on handouts from people poorer than them? It's shallow to the core.
I like the analogy on lamborghini :) No one should be subsidising these young couples with lamgorghini. Yes, they have aspirations but using taxpayer's money so that they meet their aspirations? PLEASE.
:doh:
youngsters vote for opposition for???
really for check n balance? or ?
i really wonder:rolleyes:
Why is this published in the first place? Someone who is self-centered to the core - wants best location HDB like Dawson and Queenstown highly subsidised to make maximum gains, and at the same time ask for MOP to be abolished? And want to be able to get her flat and immediately sell or rent out? How can anyone be so self-centered? Did she realise that the subsidy comes at the expense of all other tax payers, some of whom earn less than her? Goodness me. How low can one get?
any conspiracy theory? this article is purposely published to create awareness that "some of the people who complains insufficient and expensive public housing, are simply selfish and having unrealistic expectation" ? :D
Why is this published in the first place? Someone who is self-centered to the core ............
........
Please Mr Khaw, don't be taken in by the cries of these self-serving people!
wah, so many selfless people in the world. :not-worthy::not-worthy:.
If only, they have lived in historical times, then Sodom and Gomorrah won't be destroyed. (i apologised to bring this up: forgot the chinese folktale about a man spending years looking for honest men).
I am ashamed of myself. If possible, I always want to buy low and sell high and also want to charge rent high.....didnt even spare a though for those homeless campers in East Coast.
and whats wrong with being self-centred?
[QUOTE=hopeful]Hmm, cannot think of one, still a frog in a well.
So you are prepared for your descendants to take 40-50 year loans for HDB? and for private properties multi-generation 60-70 year loans? Guess that's how economy works?
Looks like I am the lonely voice here. But kudos to Gen Y, they know what they want and willing to speak up.[/
Lonely voice will not be if what you are voicing out is reasonable and logical.
Kudos should goes to someone who know what they want BUT willing to work hard for it.
Speak up and ask for their "wants" defies all
common sense.
wah, so many selfless people in the world. :not-worthy::not-worthy:.
If only, they have lived in historical times, then Sodom and Gomorrah won't be destroyed. (i apologised to bring this up: forgot the chinese folktale about a man spending years looking for honest men).
I am ashamed of myself. If possible, I always want to buy low and sell high and also want to charge rent high.....didnt even spare a though for those homeless campers in East Coast.
and whats wrong with being self-centred?
is not abt self-centred. is abt attitude and realistic. she is a kind tat want to achieve high at the fastest rate with little afford. this is nonsense!!
notice u always like to go against flow of majority view. to show yr thinking is out of the box??
Wild Falcon
13-06-11, 11:28
First use low birthrate to scare the govt. Then use leaving the country if they cannot afford their dream home in city center to threaten. And the last part is the best part, the appeal to remove MOP after they get a highly subsidised high-end flat so that they can immediately flip for profits and upgrade. The last part was what makes me boil.
If you want something, you should work hard for it, not whine for government handouts. If every singaporean ask government for a condo at orchard, and a ferrari, who's going to pay for it? Where are they going to find so much land so everyone can stay at Orchard.
Duh,...
and whats wrong with being self-centred?
alvinkoh1818
13-06-11, 11:37
wah, so many selfless people in the world. :not-worthy::not-worthy:.
If only, they have lived in historical times, then Sodom and Gomorrah won't be destroyed. (i apologised to bring this up: forgot the chinese folktale about a man spending years looking for honest men).
I am ashamed of myself. If possible, I always want to buy low and sell high and also want to charge rent high.....didnt even spare a though for those homeless campers in East Coast.
and whats wrong with being self-centred?
All I can say is, if there are more singaporean like the writer and Hopeful kind of mentality and mindset, Singapore is not going to be hopeful......at all
is not abt self-centred. is abt attitude and realistic. she is a kind tat want to achieve high at the fastest rate with little afford. this is nonsense!!
Looks at the words WF and Orange used, "self-centred" and "self-serving". They condemned the writer for being "self-centred" and "self-serving".
Why should she be condemned for being vocal about her wants?
You think by keeping quiet, she can get what she wants?
2 proverbs:
the squeeky wheel get the grease.
The nail that sticks out get hammered.
We probably won't know what will happened to her.......
All I can say is, if there are more singaporean like the writer and Hopeful kind of mentality and mindset, Singapore is not going to be hopeful......at all
hopeful is indonesian. why he care? he is only interested in making $ from spore
Looks at the words WF and Orange used, "self-centred" and "self-serving". They condemned the writer for being "self-centred" and "self-serving".
Why should she be condemned for being vocal about her wants?
You think by keeping quiet, she can get what she wants?
2 proverbs:
the squeeky wheel get the grease.
The nail that sticks out get hammered.
We probably won't know what will happened to her.......
so u are saying tat is ok to make such request? if u want something, u work for it not ask for it. some ppl even go to the extent to be in "entertainment" line jus to get wat they want but at least they work for it and not by complaining and threatening. this is worse than a begger.
If you want something, you should work hard for it, not whine for government handouts. If every singaporean ask government for a condo at orchard, and a ferrari, who's going to pay for it? Where are they going to find so much land so everyone can stay at Orchard.
Duh,...
Majority attitude is, if you want something, you should work hard for it.
so let me twist that statement, if you dont get what you want, you dont work hard enough for it.
So the poor and homeless doesn't deserve our sympathy, 'cos they dont work hard enough?
or because they want to be poor and homeless, they no need to work so hard?
so u are saying tat is ok to make such request? if u want something, u work for it not ask for it. some ppl even go to the extent to be in "entertainment" line jus to get wat they want but at least they work for it and not by complaining and threatening. this is worse than a begger.
i am saying it is ok to make a request.
does anybody noticed how many of the workers who work hard, keep quiet get salary increment/promotion?
or is it the loud ones, the one who curry favour who gets promoted?
now, the ground is not sweet. It would be opportunity for her to get what she wants, right?
If PAP gets 90% of vote, do you think she would get any attention?
Same like if company is shortage of staff, employee can take opportunity to ask for salary increment. Anything wrong with that?
thomastansb
13-06-11, 12:12
So it is ok for me to request to buy a Lamborghini also? Buying Dawson is her wish but mine is a Lamborghini. I earn only $3k a month so can I complain to LTA? BMW is too low class for me but I don't want to work hard either. So how? Should LTA give in to me????
i am saying it is ok to make a request.
does anybody noticed how many of the workers who work hard, keep quiet get salary increment/promotion?
or is it the loud ones, the one who curry favour who gets promoted?
now, the ground is not sweet. It would be opportunity for her to get what she wants, right?
If PAP gets 90% of vote, do you think she would get any attention?
Same like if company is shortage of staff, employee can take opportunity to ask for salary increment. Anything wrong with that?
thomastansb
13-06-11, 12:13
Which poor and homeless got no home? I am not sure about your country but in Singapore, I can safely say 99.9% are given opportunity to buy/rent a flat.
Majority attitude is, if you want something, you should work hard for it.
so let me twist that statement, if you dont get what you want, you dont work hard enough for it.
So the poor and homeless doesn't deserve our sympathy, 'cos they dont work hard enough?
or because they want to be poor and homeless, they no need to work so hard?
alvinkoh1818
13-06-11, 12:15
we have no problem with making request or when to make a request,
it is the HOW and WHAT part of the her specific requests which are digusting.
i am saying it is ok to make a request.
does anybody noticed how many of the workers who work hard, keep quiet get salary increment/promotion?
or is it the loud ones, the one who curry favour who gets promoted?
now, the ground is not sweet. It would be opportunity for her to get what she wants, right?
If PAP gets 90% of vote, do you think she would get any attention?
Same like if company is shortage of staff, employee can take opportunity to ask for salary increment. Anything wrong with that?
So it is ok for me to request to buy a Lamborghini also? Buying Dawson is her wish but mine is a Lamborghini. I earn only $3k a month so can I complain to LTA? BMW is too low class for me but I don't want to work hard either. So how? Should LTA give in to me????
sure it is ok, in fact, i would encourage you to publish your piece in ST Forum :)
Which poor and homeless got no home? I am not sure about your country but in Singapore, I can safely say 99.9% are given opportunity to buy/rent a flat.
I read about it in yahoo, the east coast campers. or those who sleep and die in their rickshaw. around jalan besar, rochor area there....
Regulators
13-06-11, 12:41
Jealous of the writer? Did I read wrongly? Is buying a subsidised hdb flat the only to make money? Please lah, I think you underestimate your fellow forumers here. Few months ago close one eye luan luan hoot a property also can make more than 100k, don't need to torture yourself and wait 5yr for mop to earn that 100-200k. :doh:
the way i see it, a lot of you are just jealous if government really entertain her ideas. Do you expect descendants to suffer the same hardship as us? Does our grandparents expect us to draw water from well and shit in the bucket? Does our grandparents expect us to eat yam, cocoyam because there is no rice to eat during WW2?
So if her generation has things easy, good for her generation. This is called progress. And yes, parents worked hard so that their children no need to suffer as they do, right?
And please speak up for what you want.
we have no problem with making request or when to make a request,
it is the HOW and WHAT part of the her specific requests which are digusting.
well, when you request an increment of let's say $500, does your boss agree to $500 straightaway? or does he bargain with you?
and you knowing the fact that bargaining is part of process, will initially ask your boss for $800 increment, after bargaining, you get $400 increment.
so if you have initially asked for $500 increment, probably you would have gotten about $200 at the end.......
so do you think initially asking for $800 is disgusting?
Hell no, it is part of bargaining process.
No wonder some of the foreigners said that Singaporeans are spoilt child, govt planned everything for us. When you are given 1 inch, you want 1 feet.
By chance, I read from one of the forum, some forummers wrote that ppty investors are selfish, why can't they invest in stock or other things, why must ppty, thus causes ppty prices to rise so high. I think this 1st timers also very selfish, want good locations, want to near their mother's place (to save on nanny cost), waive the 5 yrs MOP (to be able to rent out and earn fast money) etc etc. Who don't want, I also want, but the problem is, is it possible? Waiting for money to drop from the sky!:scared-4: If govt waive off the 5 yrs MOP, then govt should also waive off the SSD, then ppty market will be out of control again. Good luck!;)
What happen if her child grows up and need to go to school, will she request the govt to build a good school near her house? :D
Jealous of the writer? Did I read wrongly? Is buying a subsidised hdb flat the only to make money? Please lah, I think you underestimate your fellow forumers here. Few months ago close one eye luan luan hoot a property also can make more than 100k, don't need to torture yourself and wait 5yr for mop to earn that 100-200k. :doh:
oh, your profit is that net of SSD?
simple example:
person A buy HDB, put DP 50K, 5 years later, earn 100-200k.
person B buy condo, put DP 200k, 5 years later, earn 200-300k.
person B would be jealous of person A 'cos cash-on-cash returns higher even though person B's profit is higher.
well, when you request an increment of let's say $500, does your boss agree to $500 straightaway? or does he bargain with you?
and you knowing the fact that bargaining is part of process, will initially ask your boss for $800 increment, after bargaining, you get $400 increment.
so if you have initially asked for $500 increment, probably you would have gotten about $200 at the end.......
so do you think initially asking for $800 is disgusting?
Hell no, it is part of bargaining process.
I didn't know increment can request also? My brother-in-law requested for an increase in salary but later was asked to leave. My ex-colleague (manager) hinted to my boss that another company offered to provide him with a co's car, and my boss asked him to join that company. :doh:
irisng raised an interesting example.
Game Theory at work.
If government entertained the writer's idea and open opportunity to all.
choice 1
everybody used the opportunity, knowing it would bankrupt the nation.
everybody dont gain anything.
choice 2
minority people are selfish, used the opportunity and reaped the gains, the nation still doing fine.
the majority selfless people dont gain anything.
choice 3
majority people are selfish, used the opportunity and reaped the gains, the nation not doing so good.
the minority selfless people dont gain anything.
so who among you are the selfless ones :rolleyes:. game theory very interesting :)
oh, your profit is that net of SSD?
simple example:
person A buy HDB, put DP 50K, 5 years later, earn 100-200k.
person B buy condo, put DP 200k, 5 years later, earn 200-300k.
person B would be jealous of person A 'cos cash-on-cash returns higher even though person B's profit is higher.
Wow, I'm so jealous with all of you. So much money, so many properties, so much additional income from rental. I have waited for 12 years before I could afford another apartment in an area where not much locals would want to invest because that is within my budget. :( So how, can I request the govt to pay back my 25% levy (since now no more such levy) which I paid earlier as a 2nd timer to purchase EC from HDB, so that I have additional money to pay for my 2nd ppty,"tan gu gu er".:tongue3:
Hmm, cannot think of one, still a frog in a well.
So you are prepared for your descendants to take 40-50 year loans for HDB? and for private properties multi-generation 60-70 year loans? Guess that's how economy works?
Looks like I am the lonely voice here. But kudos to Gen Y, they know what they want and willing to speak up.
The differences is gen Y stops at asking only, wants instant gratification. U mean other pple dont know what they want? The difference is working damn hard for it,and fight for what we want. Not with the attitude that the Govt exist to please one's existance.
Truely sad to see a generation of youngsters brought up with maid at their demand end up with attitutide issues.
Remember the army guy whom need a maid to carry his bag? Clear he know what he wants and damn willing to ask for it! Cannot make it!
They've lived all their life in a tiny island, elsewhere, travelling time is in hours rather than minutes. They need to wake up and realise the world don't owe them anything and if they don't buck up, they will only fall further behind.
thomastansb
13-06-11, 14:06
Luckily I not dumb and thick skin
sure it is ok, in fact, i would encourage you to publish your piece in ST Forum :)
thomastansb
13-06-11, 14:08
Oh... So you read from Yahoo. Chey, I thought you went to interview them one by one. So not accurate lah. You should go down and ask them if they really no place to stay or is rich but prefer to sleep there. And did I mention 99.9% ? 0.1% x 3 million = 3,000.
I read about it in yahoo, the east coast campers. or those who sleep and die in their rickshaw. around jalan besar, rochor area there....
Many young couples and people complaining about high property prices are not telling the whole truth.
The truth is, they can easily afford flats in outlying areas, but they don't want those.
The truth is that they want HDB in prime areas like Queesntown, Kallang, Boonkeng, Marine Parade but cannot afford.
The truth is they want condo after making a killing off their prime HDB in a few years time.
Thye think they are entitled to all these.
These are the hard truths.
Please Mr Khaw, don't be taken in by the cries of these self-serving people!
no leh, BTO flats in any ulu location continues to be over subscribed.
it is obvious there is too limited supply
Hmm, cannot think of one, still a frog in a well.
So you are prepared for your descendants to take 40-50 year loans for HDB? and for private properties multi-generation 60-70 year loans? Guess that's how economy works?
Looks like I am the lonely voice here. But kudos to Gen Y, they know what they want and willing to speak up.
Not the lone voice.
While I can't stand " I want I want I want" types - I also don't want my kids to be on the hook for an extremely high duration mortgage. A certain ex-minister said the duration is not important - anyone with a braincell in their head would disagree if you ever intend to be able to afford to retire.
You are right, once we get to multi-generation loans like there were in Japan in the late 80's we are finished and will go the same route.
No doubt someone (heavily vested in property here) will shout this down saying "This time it's DIFFERENT" - but they always say that before the party ends.
Not all youngsters are like that lah. Many of them are ok with living in new areas. Voting for opposition acts a a good check and balance on all areas. But this woman is so spoilt and shallow and scream ME ME ME, she takes the cake. No proper analysis. Just say she wants only best location, high floor in Queenstown etc. And she wants no MOP and can be able to rent out and immediately resell at a huge profit for her personal interest. Unbelievable. If u're getting a subsidised flat to immediately resell (ie no MOP) or rent, then it just shows u don't need a flat isn't it? And she is a journalist and her husband a "banker" right who presumably has a bright future by working hard and not depending on handouts from people poorer than them? It's shallow to the core.
I like the analogy on lamborghini :) No one should be subsidising these young couples with lamgorghini. Yes, they have aspirations but using taxpayer's money so that they meet their aspirations? PLEASE.
:doh:
wait end of day she still vote PAP, hahaha ~ :D
youngsters vote for opposition for???
really for check n balance? or ?
i really wonder:rolleyes:
no lah, she vote PAP one... very typical type :D
no lah, she vote PAP one... very typical type :D
she forget to add on..
"why should i continue to vote for PAP if they cant even satisfy my basic requirements"..:D
The differences is gen Y stops at asking only, wants instant gratification. U mean other pple dont know what they want? The difference is working damn hard for it,and fight for what we want. Not with the attitude that the Govt exist to please one's existance.
Truely sad to see a generation of youngsters brought up with maid at their demand end up with attitutide issues.
Remember the army guy whom need a maid to carry his bag? Clear he know what he wants and damn willing to ask for it! Cannot make it!
What's wrong with asking the maid to carry his bag? Is it blatantly against regulations?
Obviously if he is born in the right family, he would be a BG instead. He knows how to delegate. The maid is considered the baggage train. Why should he carry his bag when another can carry the burden. His energy and mind better be used on the task at the hand.
But still he has weak character. I dont think there was any identifying photos of him. Why should he go and apologized? Even if there was, if there was nothing against the rules, no need to apologize.
got skill but no will. you are right, he cannot make it. either that or he use Thick techniques to cry.
as said earlier, the keyword is work hard. If you dont work hard, you dont deserve it. so twisting concept around, those who didnt have anything, is because they didnt work hard enough. so no compassion for them.
thomastansb
13-06-11, 15:07
Not really. Many are second time applicants. There are more than 1000 flats left over from previous BTOs which are like 500% over subscribed too. So what does this tells you? These people are choosy and not dying for a flat. Our parents time, buy HDB like striking toto. 2nd floor also grab. Got flat good already.
Nowadays, people ask can rent out immediately or not? Can make 500k immediately or not? If not, it is HDB fault. Ya, we have such useless people around. Disgusted.
no leh, BTO flats in any ulu location continues to be over subscribed.
it is obvious there is too limited supply
thomastansb
13-06-11, 15:16
That is why he tells you, choose your house wisely. If you insist on a 5 bedrooms at boon keng, high floor with superb seaview, then you screw yourself by paying 850k for it.
Actually, a 3 bedroom BTO is more than enough for most. 700 sq ft with 2 bedrooms. Less than 200k but valued at 350k now. This kind of pricing system, where you find in this world? And people still complain????? 200k, very hard to pay off and retire? If still very hard, buy a 2 bedders. If still hard, there is always studio. Don't tell me 75k not cheap enough. Remember, we are a developed country and city living almost everywhere.
Not the lone voice.
While I can't stand " I want I want I want" types - I also don't want my kids to be on the hook for an extremely high duration mortgage. A certain ex-minister said the duration is not important - anyone with a braincell in their head would disagree if you ever intend to be able to afford to retire.
You are right, once we get to multi-generation loans like there were in Japan in the late 80's we are finished and will go the same route.
No doubt someone (heavily vested in property here) will shout this down saying "This time it's DIFFERENT" - but they always say that before the party ends.
But I don't want my children to have lousy security, no MRT, no clean water. You want? I guess that is how economy works. You can't have a super developed city with low asset price. You have one to name?
As singapore becomes more developed in the future, and based on your theory, asset price will goes higher. Do you want your descendants to take 40-50 year loan for HDB and 60-70 loans for private condo?
Still haven't answer.
thomastansb
13-06-11, 15:25
40-50 years loan? You want to pay $150 per month is it? Do you know how much is a HDB now? If you don't, I suggest you go read up HDB website.
As singapore becomes more developed in the future, and based on your theory, asset price will goes higher. Do you want your descendants to take 40-50 year loan for HDB and 60-70 loans for private condo?
Still haven't answer.
That is why he tells you, choose your house wisely. If you insist on a 5 bedrooms at boon keng, high floor with superb seaview, then you screw yourself by paying 850k for it.
Actually, a 3 bedroom BTO is more than enough for most. 700 sq ft with 2 bedrooms. Less than 200k but valued at 350k now. This kind of pricing system, where you find in this world? And people still complain????? 200k, very hard to pay off and retire? If still very hard, buy a 2 bedders. If still hard, there is always studio. Don't tell me 75k not cheap enough. Remember, we are a developed country and city living almost everywhere.
glad that you agreed with me.
Those who dont have, dont deserve any compassion and cannot complain.
It is up to them to choose their own accomodations based on their income.
if still cannot afford 75k for studio, can stay in a rickshaw around Jalan Besar area. Still city living :D.
40-50 years loan? You want to pay $150 per month is it? Do you know how much is a HDB now? If you don't, I suggest you go read up HDB website.
of course not now, mr thomas, your descendants...
proud owner
13-06-11, 15:30
no leh, BTO flats in any ulu location continues to be over subscribed.
it is obvious there is too limited supply
those are the simple, hard working folks ..whose income falls under the ceiling ...
they know how much they make and can afford ..
is it those with nice job titles, half fk salaries , neither here nor there , can speak/write ENGLAND , have enough to travel, ..sign alot of credit card , tea at Dempsey...but quietly eat with in laws ( no need to pay) .... think the world owes them a living ... type ...
those will be complaining ...
i am sure the writer and his 'work in the bank' fiance fit soem of what i mention above
funnily enough, no one admits to be selfless, who will let the selfish enjoy the gains. so everybody wants to reap the gains. no saints here. :rolleyes:
What's wrong with asking the maid to carry his bag? Is it blatantly against regulations?
Obviously if he is born in the right family, he would be a BG instead. He knows how to delegate. The maid is considered the baggage train. Why should he carry his bag when another can carry the burden. His energy and mind better be used on the task at the hand.
But still he has weak character. I dont think there was any identifying photos of him. Why should he go and apologized? Even if there was, if there was nothing against the rules, no need to apologize.
got skill but no will. you are right, he cannot make it. either that or he use Thick techniques to cry.
as said earlier, the keyword is work hard. If you dont work hard, you dont deserve it. so twisting concept around, those who didnt have anything, is because they didnt work hard enough. so no compassion for them.
Different values systems. Chinese say " Fu bu guo 3 dai, got reason one. He cant even carry a his small bag u expect him to be BG lah. Also got another saying " Fu bu qi de ah duo"- Lui Bei's son.
Since difference culture and background, naturally will view things differently. If you didnt serve the Army, cant expect u to understand also. Under military law section 25: "behaviour unbecoming of a SAF soldier" he can be charged.
Cheers
thomastansb
13-06-11, 15:52
Dear Mr/Ms hopeful, I am afraid we have to see things on the table, not the future. What makes you think if the price is low today, it won't be high tomorrow? And vice versa.
The current debate is if HDB are really too costly or people are overly fussy. Just talk about things today.
of course not now, mr thomas, your descendants...
thomastansb
13-06-11, 15:54
So how many stay rickshaw? You know?
glad that you agreed with me.
Those who dont have, dont deserve any compassion and cannot complain.
It is up to them to choose their own accomodations based on their income.
if still cannot afford 75k for studio, can stay in a rickshaw around Jalan Besar area. Still city living :D.
Different values systems. Chinese say " Fu bu guo 3 dai, got reason one. He cant even carry a his small bag u expect him to be BG lah. Also got another saying " Fu bu qi de ah duo"- Lui Bei's son.
Since difference culture and background, naturally will view things differently. If you didnt serve the Army, cant expect u to understand also. Under military law section 25: "behaviour unbecoming of a SAF soldier" he can be charged.
Cheers
does the act of carrying a small bag prove anything? that he can carry a bag?
actually it is his response that should scare you.
personally, when i go out with wifey, i carry my wife's handbag. does it mean i am under wife's thumb, "akua',etc. I am confident (or cocksure) of myself. Don't have to prove to anybody else that I am a man. I know I am and that's enough for me. :cheers6:
thomastansb
13-06-11, 16:03
It does prove something to me. Behavior of the officer. If a policeman smoke openly, it doesn't mean anything but do you think it is acceptable?
does the act of carrying a small bag prove anything? that he can carry a bag?
actually it is his response that should scare you.
personally, when i go out with wifey, i carry my wife's handbag. does it mean i am under wife's thumb, "akua',etc. I am confident (or cocksure) of myself. Don't have to prove to anybody else that I am a man. I know I am and that's enough for me. :cheers6:
thomastansb
13-06-11, 16:04
Ok, my point wasn't really about high or low floor.
- edited -
thomastansb
13-06-11, 16:11
Of course everyone is selfish la. That is why you have such letter written.
So how much is a HDB flat? Have you found out?
funnily enough, no one admits to be selfless, who will let the selfish enjoy the gains. so everybody wants to reap the gains. no saints here. :rolleyes:
So how many stay rickshaw? You know?
well, i am away. perhaps you can help me, walk around the area near Albert complex, the thieves market, the backlanes around Jalan Besar.
Afterall that's where rickshaw congregate, as far as I know.
While I was still schooling in Singapore, I was lucky once when I passed by that area in the morning. it seems that an old man has passed away in his rickshaw.
proud owner
13-06-11, 16:12
does the act of carrying a small bag prove anything? that he can carry a bag?
actually it is his response that should scare you.
personally, when i go out with wifey, i carry my wife's handbag. does it mean i am under wife's thumb, "akua',etc. I am confident (or cocksure) of myself. Don't have to prove to anybody else that I am a man. I know I am and that's enough for me. :cheers6:
i only carry my wife's bag when she goes to the washroom ...
otherwise NO NO ...
in future you should shop for hand bag instead since you are the one carrying
Majority attitude is, if you want something, you should work hard for it.
so let me twist that statement, if you dont get what you want, you dont work hard enough for it.
So the poor and homeless doesn't deserve our sympathy, 'cos they dont work hard enough?
or because they want to be poor and homeless, they no need to work so hard?
Is there any other way ard it? Unless your father leave you a fortune its is understood that one works for food on the table. Its not an attitude, its a BELIEF.
if you dont get what you want, it could be you are not working smart or working hard the wrong way. Working hard? Can one work harder than a cow ploughing the land?
the poor and homeless could be disadvantage and thus need help so that the next generation can escape the proverty trap. Education is the only way out.
The hard truth is that working hard is reserved for normal human beings. If you are a multi-billionaire, you dont carry bag, there will always pple to carry bag for u. But before one person get there, there must be someone whom had work exceptionally hard smartly to plan the tree so someone can enjoy the shade. No one plan tree where will have fruits?
Of course everyone is selfish la. That is why you have such letter written.
So how much is a HDB flat? Have you found out?
Thanks. So initial premise seems correct.
people are workup because they dont want the writer to enjoy something which they didnt enjoy themselves before. all those talk about policies being bad for Singapore are just mask for their jealousy. :rolleyes:
Well, i will find out once government allow foreigner to buy HDB. :cheers1:.
thomastansb
13-06-11, 16:20
Well, since you open your lion's mouth, then you go check and let me know. Just saying you read from Yahoo is too vague for me.
well, i am away. perhaps you can help me, walk around the area near Albert complex, the thieves market, the backlanes around Jalan Besar.
Afterall that's where rickshaw congregate, as far as I know.
While I was still schooling in Singapore, I was lucky once when I passed by that area in the morning. it seems that an old man has passed away in his rickshaw.
thomastansb
13-06-11, 16:22
So murderers also same? People want to kill but they jealous so they make a big fuss and even set up laws to punish murderers?
:doh:
So have you found out how much a normal 3/4 bedders HDB cost? You always lion open big mouth here. 50 years housing loan.
:jaw-dropping::jaw-dropping:
Thanks. So initial premise seems correct.
people are workup because they dont want the writer to enjoy something which they didnt enjoy themselves before. all those talk about policies being bad for Singapore are just mask for their jealousy. :rolleyes:
Well, i will find out once government allow foreigner to buy HDB. :cheers1:.
does the act of carrying a small bag prove anything? that he can carry a bag?
actually it is his response that should scare you.
personally, when i go out with wifey, i carry my wife's handbag. does it mean i am under wife's thumb, "akua',etc. I am confident (or cocksure) of myself. Don't have to prove to anybody else that I am a man. I know I am and that's enough for me. :cheers6:
bro, y are pple so work up over a bag issue? Its because of the attitude behind that action IMHO. The attitude of many Gen Ys todays scare us.
We can go on and on about bag carrying and we will not get anywhere. I believe if my child wants a drink, he can fetch it himself. Others may think its ok for the maid to get it for him while he focus on the task at hand. Can we ever conclude? Never.
Well, since you open your lion's mouth, then you go check and let me know. Just saying you read from Yahoo is too vague for me.
so any number for me to call you, to come and personally witness, afterall I dont want to take photos and possibly get manhandled or even whacked.
The returns of proving me right is not matched by the risk of me getting whacked. :cheers1:
thomastansb
13-06-11, 17:01
Cool. I just take it as the number cannot be confirmed.
Have you also found out the price of 3/4 bedroom HDB? As to the issue where you said my children will take 50 years to pay for HDB.
so any number for me to call you, to come and personally witness, afterall I dont want to take photos and possibly get manhandled or even whacked.
The returns of proving me right is not matched by the risk of me getting whacked. :cheers1:
Regulators
13-06-11, 17:01
Gen Ys always want quick fix solutions and are generally an impatient bunch. I also got no patience with them. If I were khaw, I would just concentrate on making sound policies that don't crash the market just bcoz of some cry babies. If you keep catering to these cry babies, the govt will be creating more and more cry babies with soft backbones. My parents, myself and gen x people just work hard and find our avenues out of problems and find ways to maximise our wealth intelligently, what has happened to all these positive attributes of past generations?
So murderers also same? People want to kill but they jealous so they make a big fuss and even set up laws to punish murderers?
:doh:
err...didnt quite understand your statement, in bold.
let me try to understand:
so those people who cannot kill are jealous of people who can kill,
1) so those people cannot kill make a big fuss and even set up laws to punish murderers?
or do you intend to say
2) so those people cannot kill make a big fuss and even set up laws to punish those who kill?
or do you intend to say
3) so those people cannot kill make a big fuss and even set up laws to punish those who wants to kill?
4) ?????
which is your intended meaning?
Cool. I just take it as the number cannot be confirmed.
Have you also found out the price of 3/4 bedroom HDB? As to the issue where you said my children will take 50 years to pay for HDB.
you are cool. Out of sight, out of mind. As long as i dont see homeless people, means homeless people don't exist. ;)
same here, i am not eligible for HDB, so dont bother about HDB price. I believe Singaporeans here are more familiar about HDB than ineligible foreigners.
I am talking about your descendants taking 40-50 years loan and you are asking me to look at current HDB prices.
I can imagine the scenario: A long long time ago, my parents talking to your parents about their children (you) taking 20-30 year HDB loan and your parents telling my parents to check out the price of HDB at that time. :doh:
proud owner
13-06-11, 17:19
you are cool. Out of sight, out of mind. As long as i dont see homeless people, means homeless people don't exist. ;)
same here, i am not eligible for HDB, so dont bother about HDB price. I believe Singaporeans here are more familiar about HDB than ineligible foreigners.
I am talking about your descendants taking 40-50 years loan and you are asking me to look at current HDB prices.
I can imagine the scenario: A long long time ago, my parents talking to your parents about their children (you) taking 20-30 year HDB loan and your parents telling my parents to check out the price of HDB at that time. :doh:
you think his parents would have asked your dad the price of the hand bag ??
opps sorry
you think his parents would have asked your dad the price of the hand bag ??
opps sorry
No harm done. hehe, my dad is traditional type, but occasionaly did buy handbags for my mum during his overseas trip.
I only carry bags, I didnt buy 'cos wifey have rather specific taste in bags. I just provide funds and accompany her.
bro, y are pple so work up over a bag issue? Its because of the attitude behind that action IMHO. The attitude of many Gen Ys todays scare us.
We can go on and on about bag carrying and we will not get anywhere. I believe if my child wants a drink, he can fetch it himself. Others may think its ok for the maid to get it for him while he focus on the task at hand. Can we ever conclude? Never.
as mentioned earlier, it is his response that should matter, not the act itself.
How a person handle stressful situation.
He broke down under duress.
You see the real personality only when they are under stress situation.....
Jun 12, 2011
We want a flat in a convenient location...
First-time owners may not need to settle for less if mature estates get more BTO units
By Gladys Chung
We sing the same tune as many other young couples: We want to be in a convenient location - one that's near our parents and in-laws.
We were among the thousands rejected for the Dawson BTO flats in Queenstown that were launched in 2009.
Apart from balloting for some leftover flats in Hougang last year - again, we were not selected - we haven't applied for a flat since because most of the BTOs were not in areas we favour. My parents live in Serangoon Gardens, so I hope to get a flat in Bishan, Ang Mo Kio or Toa Payoh.
My fiance and I were even wondering if we should leave Singapore and explore options elsewhere - since we could not afford to buy a home here in a location we loved, we thought we might as well delay our plans to have a baby right after marriage, relocate somewhere with more exciting opportunities and pay rent.
So she apply Queenstown to be near her parents! Is queenstown any nearer to Serangoon than Punggol or Sengkang?
So is any other options elsewhere in other country nearer to her parents ? Y bring out that the husband works in a bank but cannot afford a location that she loved? So having a baby got to do buying a house that she loves?
Really Hopeful, u buying her shit? How can relocating somewhere exciting and pay rent be in line with her goals of staying near her parents and no need travel so far from work?
thomastansb
13-06-11, 20:24
The same logic that you propose. If I can't get what she wants, I will make noise.
err...didnt quite understand your statement, in bold.
let me try to understand:
so those people who cannot kill are jealous of people who can kill,
1) so those people cannot kill make a big fuss and even set up laws to punish murderers?
or do you intend to say
2) so those people cannot kill make a big fuss and even set up laws to punish those who kill?
or do you intend to say
3) so those people cannot kill make a big fuss and even set up laws to punish those who wants to kill?
4) ?????
which is your intended meaning?
thomastansb
13-06-11, 20:29
I can't foresee the future. I only know now, average family can pay off a unit easily in 20 years time.
you are cool. Out of sight, out of mind. As long as i dont see homeless people, means homeless people don't exist. ;)
same here, i am not eligible for HDB, so dont bother about HDB price. I believe Singaporeans here are more familiar about HDB than ineligible foreigners.
I am talking about your descendants taking 40-50 years loan and you are asking me to look at current HDB prices.
I can imagine the scenario: A long long time ago, my parents talking to your parents about their children (you) taking 20-30 year HDB loan and your parents telling my parents to check out the price of HDB at that time. :doh:
The same logic that you propose. If I can't get what she wants, I will make noise.
so write in to ST, to all the media for your Lambogini. oh wait, you are not that thick skin :rolleyes:
I can't foresee the future. I only know now, average family can pay off a unit easily in 20 years time.
a long long time ago, average family can pay off a unit easily in how many years?
So she apply Queenstown to be near her parents! Is queenstown any nearer to Serangoon than Punggol or Sengkang?
So is any other options elsewhere in other country nearer to her parents ? Y bring out that the husband works in a bank but cannot afford a location that she loved? So having a baby got to do buying a house that she loves?
Really Hopeful, u buying her shit? How can relocating somewhere exciting and pay rent be in line with her goals of staying near her parents and no need travel so far from work?
na, I am not buying her shit. it is just that she got condemn, rightly or wrongly, just for voicing out her wants. As you mentioned, Singapore and foreigners have different value systems. Perhaps Singaporeans GenX and GenY also have different value systems.
I see nothing wrong in her voicing out loud. in fact, I find her audacity cute in stating out her wants. She may or may not get it, but at least she tried. Those who keep quiet 100% won't be given Lambogini. But those who voice out, well, maybe 0.00000000000000000000000001% chance of getting it :)
The first person to be audacious to the boss sometimes get it. The ones who follow the audacity usually get hammered :D
My friend and I worked in Thailand for 2-3 months. Ya friendly flirting with hotel staff, (non sexual nature). One weekend, went out with a hotel staff to go sight-seeing in the city. We passed by a gold shop. Out the blue, she asked my friend to get her a gold jewellery. That day, my friend in a good mood, so agreed to buy her a gold trinket.
The next day, news spread fast. The female hotel staff want to us to buy them. We taught them an English proverb "fortune favors the bold". :)
Regulators
13-06-11, 20:57
i thought should be fortune favours fools? :D
na, I am not buying her shit. it is just that she got condemn, rightly or wrongly, just for voicing out her wants. As you mentioned, Singapore and foreigners have different value systems. Perhaps Singaporeans GenX and GenY also have different value systems.
I see nothing wrong in her voicing out loud. in fact, I find her audacity cute in stating out her wants. She may or may not get it, but at least she tried. Those who keep quiet 100% won't be given Lambogini. But those who voice out, well, maybe 0.00000000000000000000000001% chance of getting it :)
The first person to be audacious to the boss sometimes get it. The ones who follow the audacity usually get hammered :D
My friend and I worked in Thailand for 2-3 months. Ya friendly flirting with hotel staff, (non sexual nature). One weekend, went out with a hotel staff to go sight-seeing in the city. We passed by a gold shop. Out the blue, she asked my friend to get her a gold jewellery. That day, my friend in a good mood, so agreed to buy her a gold trinket.
The next day, news spread fast. The female hotel staff want to us to buy them. We taught them an English proverb "fortune favors the bold". :)
thomastansb
13-06-11, 21:04
Depends on the type of flats. If take 4 bedder, median income 5.4k, you go calculate.
a long long time ago, average family can pay off a unit easily in how many years?
Depends on the type of flats. If take 4 bedder, median income 5.4k, you go calculate.
well, you are right if you cannot predict the future. Think Singaporeans have edge over non-PR foreigners over HDB matters. so you can check historical records if you so bother.
long long time ago, median income 5.4k a month? or a year? Try harder next time to pull a fast one. Though your attempts to get me to jump hoops for you getting stale.
So if you dont see homeless in singapore, therefore homeless does not exist.
Actually, I am just like you. I don't really care about the homeless. Cheers :cheers1:
As singapore becomes more developed in the future, and based on your theory, asset price will goes higher. Do you want your descendants to take 40-50 year loan for HDB and 60-70 loans for private condo?
Still haven't answer.
I would like to answer this easy 1..my decendants will get it free from me. If ppty price goes up further i can even sell another unit for my retirement. And keep another for my grandson. And i am still working hard for my great grand son. So i am not sure how the 60-70yrs loan come abt? The secret is work hard. 90% hard work and 10%Luck. As for Gen Y.....I hope they stay put with the attitude..cant afford All Gen Y to be competitive. We need such ppl in the society else how we compete with this young and qualified ppl.
The Govt should not care about those who complain and complain about private property prices too high! :doh:
Come on, private properties are for the top 20% earners to live in, if the person can't work hard to climb to become top 20% earners, why should that person be qualified to be living in top 20% private properties in Singapore? Wait for govt to provide for them? They are already very lucky that Govt already provide them with cheap and reasonable quality housing (aka HDBs) and private-property-equivalents (aka ECs) for those who can't afford so much. What more do they want? :banghead:
Any govt's move to make private properties more affordable is shooting themselves in the foot! Want to make capable people work harder, faster, more productive and efficient instead of relaxing and become a society liching worm? Make luxuries like private properties & cars much more expensive lah! Otherwise Singapore how to improve and competite with the world? :p
well, you are right if you cannot predict the future. Think Singaporeans have edge over non-PR foreigners over HDB matters. so you can check historical records if you so bother.
long long time ago, median income 5.4k a month? or a year? Try harder next time to pull a fast one. Though your attempts to get me to jump hoops for you getting stale.
So if you dont see homeless in singapore, therefore homeless does not exist.
Actually, I am just like you. I don't really care about the homeless. Cheers :cheers1:
thomastansb
14-06-11, 09:29
60-70 years loan won't happen. Singapore has past that 3rd to 1st world transformation. So you can forget about buying 25k and selling 850k. The thing we will see now is some fluctuation due to economy, supply vs demand etc and little increase over the years when that area gets developed. Remember, our parents bought at 25k because they bought when Singapore is like Vietnam.
I would like to answer this easy 1..my decendants will get it free from me. If ppty price goes up further i can even sell another unit for my retirement. And keep another for my grandson. And i am still working hard for my great grand son. So i am not sure how the 60-70yrs loan come abt? The secret is work hard. 90% hard work and 10%Luck. As for Gen Y.....I hope they stay put with the attitude..cant afford All Gen Y to be competitive. We need such ppl in the society else how we compete with this young and qualified ppl.
thomastansb
14-06-11, 09:32
Some people are overly greedy. Not about Gen Y or X because in every generation, there are people who want super shortcut. But they want shortcut but don't want to work. Luckily they in Singapore. If they lazy, still can buy a 75k studio (value at 130k at market value).
And if Singapore begins to sell its land cheap cheap, then I think the Government is failing. Like what MBT said, raiding our reserve.
The Govt should not care about those who complain and complain about private property prices too high! :doh:
Come on, private properties are for the top 20% earners to live in, if the person can't work hard to climb to become top 20% earners, why should that person be qualified to be living in top 20% private properties in Singapore? Wait for govt to provide for them? They are already very lucky that Govt already provide them with cheap and reasonable quality housing (aka HDBs) and private-property-equivalents (aka ECs) for those who can't afford so much. What more do they want? :banghead:
Any govt's move to make private properties more affordable is shooting themselves in the foot! Want to make capable people work harder, faster, more productive and efficient instead of relaxing and become a society liching worm? Make luxuries like private properties & cars much more expensive lah! Otherwise Singapore how to improve and competite with the world? :p
60-70 years loan won't happen. Singapore has past that 3rd to 1st world transformation. So you can forget about buying 25k and selling 850k. The thing we will see now is some fluctuation due to economy, supply vs demand etc and little increase over the years when that area gets developed. Remember, our parents bought at 25k because they bought when Singapore is like Vietnam.
I fully agree, we won't see the huge increase when things get mature. Sad to see new generation can't take the hardship..they need to work hard and smart to get what they want. I guess parents play a part too. ..is their fault.
I asking my son to do everything on his own even the maid is ard. Thts the basic to be a fighter.
I fully agree, we won't see the huge increase when things get mature. Sad to see new generation can't take the hardship..they need to work hard and smart to get what they want. I guess parents play a part too. ..is their fault.
I asking my son to do everything on his own even the maid is ard. Thts the basic to be a fighter.
Thumbs up :cool1:
Allthepies
14-06-11, 13:02
I fully agree, we won't see the huge increase when things get mature. Sad to see new generation can't take the hardship..they need to work hard and smart to get what they want. I guess parents play a part too. ..is their fault.
I asking my son to do everything on his own even the maid is ard. Thts the basic to be a fighter.
well said! :cheers1:
does a CEO makes his own coffee? no he has a OB/OL to make it for him. Indonesia has advantage that it has beggars and children selling newspapers by the roadside. Me and wife would point out that to the kids. How fortunate you are.Do you want to sell newspaper on the road? Then better listen to daddy and mummy, if not daddy mummy throw you by the roadside, and you go find your own living. Well they learned obediance (from parents) and command (the maids) at the same. and also to put the fear of poverty into their still innocent hearts and minds. Don't sweat the small stuff. anyway different parenting system.
That is why he tells you, choose your house wisely. If you insist on a 5 bedrooms at boon keng, high floor with superb seaview, then you screw yourself by paying 850k for it.
Actually, a 3 bedroom BTO is more than enough for most. 700 sq ft with 2 bedrooms. Less than 200k but valued at 350k now. This kind of pricing system, where you find in this world? And people still complain????? 200k, very hard to pay off and retire? If still very hard, buy a 2 bedders. If still hard, there is always studio. Don't tell me 75k not cheap enough. Remember, we are a developed country and city living almost everywhere.
Having worked & lived in many developed countries I can tell you with no uncertainty that 350k for a 3 room - i.e 2 bedroom HDB is not great value at all - especially against the backdrop of median wage households.
Yes you can "afford" it, but that is because you are redirecting money for retirement into bricks and mortar. Even the US after subprime many still have their retirement 401k and Roth IRA which have bounced for retirement funds. It's something that is largely not done here - you can't eat your flat at 65 and if you sell it minimum sum +interest will swallow it back.
Also how the heck do you have a family that is large enough to create population growth (3 or more kids) with only one bedroom for them? If we all buy studios then population growth will be zero - may as well just hand the keys to Malaysia now rather than later as the whole place will end up being a ghost town in 2 generations time.
(since when did HDB market by number of bedrooms rather than rooms & when did they come with 5 bedrooms?)
I fully agree, we won't see the huge increase when things get mature. .......... Then why are we in properties except to make huge gains from specuvesting in properties. Actions doesn't seem to match the words. I believe everybody here is hoping to make huge capital gains right. Yet we have people saying no huge increase because Singapore is mature country?
Hmm, cannot think of one, still a frog in a well.
So you are prepared for your descendants to take 40-50 year loans for HDB? and for private properties multi-generation 60-70 year loans? Guess that's how economy works?
Looks like I am the lonely voice here. But kudos to Gen Y, they know what they want and willing to speak up.
I thought at one time japan's property was so expensive that they need multi generation loans? But now collasped and prices remained muted for a long time liaoz.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_asset_price_bubble
:beats-me-man:
Everybody want prices to collaspe and pick durains, but that could only happen when there is a major recession or crisis. During those times, they will be more worried about their job and their next meal rather than choosing their choice units.
When the recession is over, they will complain miss the boat, as always. :p
Everybody want prices to collaspe and pick durains, but that could only happen when there is a major recession or crisis. During those times, they will be more worried about their job and their next meal rather than choosing their choice units.
When the recession is over, they will complain miss the boat, as always. :pYa, true. Can see from the recent 08/09 crisis, when durians start dropping, many quickly run to take cover...., don't dare to pick...:D
thomastansb
14-06-11, 15:12
That is the economic cycle. In 1997, 2007, 2011, URA index almost close to each other. But you won't see the kind of increase from 1960 to 1996. Buy 25k, sell 850k. Got it?
Then why are we in properties except to make huge gains from specuvesting in properties. Actions doesn't seem to match the words. I believe everybody here is hoping to make huge capital gains right. Yet we have people saying no huge increase because Singapore is mature country?
thomastansb
14-06-11, 15:20
You can't eat your flat but you can sell it and get the money. Minimum sum will be used to invest in CPF LIFE and give them a monthly income. The rest, can just downgrade to a smaller home. That is the worst case scenario. But of course, you need to save for your retirement lah. Unless you really those kind of people who don't want to work, wait for $$ to drop from the sky and kao pei Government.
4 bedroom is the common flat in SG. Cost 250k if you not too fussy. As to how long to service the mortgage, it depends on the individual. Some want to just use CPF to service the loan so will probably opt for 20 years. Some want to settle the loan within a few years and can save for the remaining 20 years. Really depends. Now, people want this, want that, want car, want big house but cheapo don't want to pay.
In Europe, people rent instead of buying. Btw, how much is US income tax? And did I mention USD1 = S$1.20 now? Used to be > S$1.70 :scared-4:
Having worked & lived in many developed countries I can tell you with no uncertainty that 350k for a 3 room - i.e 2 bedroom HDB is not great value at all - especially against the backdrop of median wage households.
Yes you can "afford" it, but that is because you are redirecting money for retirement into bricks and mortar. Even the US after subprime many still have their retirement 401k and Roth IRA which have bounced for retirement funds. It's something that is largely not done here - you can't eat your flat at 65 and if you sell it minimum sum +interest will swallow it back.
Also how the heck do you have a family that is large enough to create population growth (3 or more kids) with only one bedroom for them? If we all buy studios then population growth will be zero - may as well just hand the keys to Malaysia now rather than later as the whole place will end up being a ghost town in 2 generations time.
(since when did HDB market by number of bedrooms rather than rooms & when did they come with 5 bedrooms?)
You can't eat your flat but you can sell it and get the money. Minimum sum will be used to invest in CPF LIFE and give them a monthly income. The rest, can just downgrade to a smaller home. That is the worst case scenario. But of course, you need to save for your retirement lah. Unless you really those kind of people who don't want to work, wait for $$ to drop from the sky and kao pei Government.
will come back to CPF life at end of reply
4 bedroom is the common flat in SG. Cost 250k if you not too fussy. As to how long to service the mortgage, it depends on the individual. Some want to just use CPF to service the loan so will probably opt for 20 years. Some want to settle the loan within a few years and can save for the remaining 20 years. Really depends. Now, people want this, want that, want car, want big house but cheapo don't want to pay.
4 bedroom HDB can get for 250K?? Where? Certainly not the resale market anywhere on the island. If you can get from HDB I'm suprised but I dont follow HDB BTO too much to be honest so maybe you can. Sounds too "cheap" considering resale price.
In Europe, people rent instead of buying. Btw, how much is US income tax? And did I mention USD1 = S$1.20 now? Used to be > S$1.70 :scared-4:
I hope you are not taking the EU to represent all developed economies & hence rental percentage of household income is the reason for cheaper housing compared to the income in all developed economies. That would be having your cake and eating it too.
Not sure where the exchange rate is going, maybe it's to explain why now HDB is so skyhigh compared to working class homes in the US. Even at exchange rate of 1.7 they still dont compare.
The income tax is high in US? How much is it here? When most peoples access to CPF at retirement is getting further away (55 vs 65 vs who knows where the goalposts have gone when we get there) and CPF is used to effectively give you a pension via CPF life, and you can't even pass it on as cash to your kids anymore maybe it's time we realistically classify it as tax here too.
It is to me - it's gone & not part of my retirement planning calculation.
How much would our tax be if we stopped calling it CPF, called it tax and called CPF life income social security cheques?
plus we still are not addressing the environment for national sterility that is being created. If you couples don't feel they can afford a roof, they are not going to feel they can afford a family of 2-3 kids
Eldenfirefly
14-06-11, 15:53
I agree. Sense of entitlement is high amongst Gen Y. :( But its not exactly their fault. They lived with their parents mostly in the later years, not in the initial years, so they onlt remember the current nice big condo or landed property which their parents are staying in (and which they were staying before they got married).
Upon marriage, if they want to move out (because most girls these days do not want to live with in law...) Then, they suddenly find themselves "downgraded" from a nice condo/landed,HDB in nice location to barely being able to afford a 4 room HDB in a out lying area.
So they scream and complain lor. But what do you expect government to do? They got only 2 choice:
1) Crash the property market. Wack it so jai lat until the prices crash to "affordable" levels for the new graduates. Yay, the new graduaets rejoice, but now, 80 to 90% of the existing property owners will be pissed off with the government.
2) Subsidise! Already government give tens of thousands of dollars in subsidies. But not enough. They want nice location, they want it all. To get a nice location nice flat in Singapore these days. Smelly smelly also need at least 500,000, if not more. New couple where go such money. But if don't want to crash the property market, and yet enable them to buy something like that, then how? You want government to give a free "$400,000 to $500,000) to each and every Gen Y new couple who wants to buy a new house is it?
Can you imagine anywhere in the world where the minute you get married and want to buy a new home, government rushes in to give you $400,000 SGD so that you can "afford" to buy a nice flat in a nice location???
How can this be possible? And this is also tax payer money lor. So, the rest of us who are paying taxes. How do you like it that your taxes are going to go towards sponsoring a couple of hundred thousand to every new Gen Y couple to buy their dream home ...
Like that can meh? I don't think its sustainable. And its probably not a good idea also. See? Government is in a tough spot. Either way they will get wacked.
But I more strongly disagree with the 2nd option even though I also don't want thefirst option to happen also. There is just something wrong with taking tax payer money in the tune of hundreds of thousands, and giving it for free to a new couple just so that they can buy their "dream" home. That is just like the kind of state sponsored welfare system we were trying so hard to avoid in the past.
thomastansb
14-06-11, 16:05
I agree with you on the nonsense shifting of CPF withdrawal.
I also agree with you on the pension vs CPF argument.
But you ask me whether can retire, I say yes. Got CPF life. It is flawed and unfair but they can retire. I never say it is good. I just say they can retire since you ask about it.
Yes, 4 bedroom can be purchased at 250k. In fact, 230k can buy already if you aren't too fussy. I am looking at BTO for the past few months, not resale. And you mentioned about high resale? Well, that is the good work of the Government. Don't really support them but should give credit where it is due. You buy at 250k, sell 400k 5 years later. That is the whole idea. Now, people (like the writer here) want to buy 250k and sell 400k tomorrow. Huh?? How to sustain.
As for feeling of affordability, it is subjective again. Some don't want to use cash, purely CPF so cash can be used to buy car, go cheong etc. Some don't mind using cash since they get back cash when they sell their house to upgrade or whatever. If you take the bottom 0.5%, well, of course they can't afford a 4 bedroom but you have to live with it in every society. They can rent from Government at a cheap rental and might qualify for social assistance. But we should focus on the majority.
will come back to CPF life at end of reply
4 bedroom HDB can get for 250K?? Where? Certainly not the resale market anywhere on the island. If you can get from HDB I'm suprised but I dont follow HDB BTO too much to be honest so maybe you can. Sounds too "cheap" considering resale price.
I hope you are not taking the EU to represent all developed economies & hence rental percentage of household income is the reason for cheaper housing compared to the income in all developed economies. That would be having your cake and eating it too.
Not sure where the exchange rate is going, maybe it's to explain why now HDB is so skyhigh compared to working class homes in the US. Even at exchange rate of 1.7 they still dont compare.
The income tax is high in US? How much is it here? When most peoples access to CPF at retirement is getting further away (55 vs 65 vs who knows where the goalposts have gone when we get there) and CPF is used to effectively give you a pension via CPF life, and you can't even pass it on as cash to your kids anymore maybe it's time we realistically classify it as tax here too.
It is to me - it's gone & not part of my retirement planning calculation.
How much would our tax be if we stopped calling it CPF, called it tax and called CPF life income social security cheques?
plus we still are not addressing the environment for national sterility that is being created. If you couples don't feel they can afford a roof, they are not going to feel they can afford a family of 2-3 kids
I see no problem with low fertility. Better still.
in 3 generations, 1 grandchild will be supported by 2 parents & 4 grandparents.
in 4 generations, 1 great grand child supported by 2 parents, 4 grandparents and 8 great grandparents :spliff2:. So that single great grandchild will inherit all the wealth accumulated over 3 generations.
no need to work for life also can.:cool:
Imagine the amount of CPF money in his account and he cannot touch at all :doh:.
Better than the case of big farmlands subdivided over many generations of huge families until each tiny piece of land is insufficient to support a family.
proud owner
14-06-11, 16:13
I agree. Sense of entitlement is high amongst Gen Y. :( But its not exactly their fault. They lived with their parents mostly in the later years, not in the initial years, so they onlt remember the current nice big condo or landed property which their parents are staying in (and which they were staying before they got married).
Upon marriage, if they want to move out (because most girls these days do not want to live with in law...) Then, they suddenly find themselves "downgraded" from a nice condo/landed,HDB in nice location to barely being able to afford a 4 room HDB in a out lying area.
So they scream and complain lor. But what do you expect government to do? They got only 2 choice:
1) Crash the property market. Wack it so jai lat until the prices crash to "affordable" levels for the new graduates. Yay, the new graduaets rejoice, but now, 80 to 90% of the existing property owners will be pissed off with the government.
2) Subsidise! Already government give tens of thousands of dollars in subsidies. But not enough. They want nice location, they want it all. To get a nice location nice flat in Singapore these days. Smelly smelly also need at least 500,000, if not more. New couple where go such money. But if don't want to crash the property market, and yet enable them to buy something like that, then how? You want government to give a free "$400,000 to $500,000) to each and every Gen Y new couple who wants to buy a new house is it?
Can you imagine anywhere in the world where the minute you get married and want to buy a new home, government rushes in to give you $400,000 SGD so that you can "afford" to buy a nice flat in a nice location???
How can this be possible? And this is also tax payer money lor. So, the rest of us who are paying taxes. How do you like it that your taxes are going to go towards sponsoring a couple of hundred thousand to every new Gen Y couple to buy their dream home ...
Like that can meh? I don't think its sustainable. And its probably not a good idea also. See? Government is in a tough spot. Either way they will get wacked.
But I more strongly disagree with the 2nd option even though I also don't want thefirst option to happen also. There is just something wrong with taking tax payer money in the tune of hundreds of thousands, and giving it for free to a new couple just so that they can buy their "dream" home. That is just like the kind of state sponsored welfare system we were trying so hard to avoid in the past.
i believe what we are seeing today is a cycle ... one where the grandparents to the parents level ...they didnt have a good comfortable life ..
so they saved, worked hard . to achieve a comfortable home
and they make sure that their children will not have to suffer like how they did ..
however they neglected to impart and educate the right values ..
including the value of money ...
things came too easy for the current generation
one forumer here said he taught his son to not use the maid ...etc which i feel is good ...
but we have neglected the girls ..
today's girls know very little to ntg about household chores ...
who's fault? they parents
i have seen so many average income couple ..with maids ...
they have no choice becos the wife cannot do any of it ...
then there are the above ave income group .. also dunno house work .. but can afford a maid no prob ..
they spend on shopping . good food, holidays ...
but will complain on getting a roof ..
'it doesnt make sense to spend so much on housing, when else where is cheaper ... we may migrate' ...
i would say ...' it doesnt make sense to spend so much on fine dining , when some food court offers the same thing ''.... so why are they still fine fining ?
they have their $ priority all wrong ...
they never knew the value of money ..
thats why in an earlier post .. i suggested that she find herself a rich china man ...
thomastansb
14-06-11, 16:15
Now, they just want money from Government and hope $ drop from the sky. They are a bunch of lazy useless people. I don't need to say more. Just look at the first post.
She said she wanted to stay near parents (Serangoon) but yet apply for Queenstown. What does this tell you?
Next, she complain about suburban not good but isn't Sengkang near Serangoon (her parents)??
Then she wants MOP removed for immediate rental or sell it away. So may I ask, who will rent or buy from her if MOP is removed? And Gen Y wants to restrict foreigners? It doesn't make sense to me.
I agree. Sense of entitlement is high amongst Gen Y. :( But its not exactly their fault. They lived with their parents mostly in the later years, not in the initial years, so they onlt remember the current nice big condo or landed property which their parents are staying in (and which they were staying before they got married).
.
.
.
.
Eldenfirefly
14-06-11, 16:15
About the declining popuolation thing...
This doesn't work. Older generation more frugal. Gen Y generation, erm, harder to say. You are assuming this trend of wealth passing from generation to generation will work. But it doesn't because not everyone is frugal.
Plus people are living longer these days also. Average life expectancy is 80 years old. Assuming have kids at 28, that means by the time wealth can be passed on, the next generation already 52 years old.
No matter how much wealth is accumulated, it is possible to spend it all within one generation. All you need is one generation who don't understand how hard it is to earn money, and that's it. It will all be gone.
thomastansb
14-06-11, 16:18
I agree with you. Just ask her to find a rich PRC or whatever. Remove MOP, everybody dies. Have we forgotten the baby boomers? They are all holding to 1 HDB. If value drop, then good luck to them.
i believe what we are seeing today is a cycle ... one where the grandparents to the parents level ...they didnt have a good comfortable life ..
.
.
.
thats why in an earlier post .. i suggested that she find herself a rich china man ...
.. i suggested that she find herself a rich china man ...
or be a SPG and find some ang mo, hopefully he's rich, handsome and young, in that order ;)
thomastansb
14-06-11, 16:21
Well, the Gen Y (actually I am Gen Y also) don't understand this at all. They thought they want to earn 4,000% like their parents also. If the resale ever crash, their parents are the victims. Not all but I am sure quite a lot of them. Especially those looking to downgrade, cash out or whatever. But this is what they want anyway.
I know hopeful might be waiting for a crash or many seasoned players here are also looking at that. Just too bad for those Gen Y and their parents. They get what they ask for, they fully deserve it. Seasoned players got nothing to lose. They know how to play cycle. Gen Y don't. They are still young and naive but never mind. They will see it in a few years time.
This doesn't work. Older generation more frugal. Gen Y generation, erm, harder to say. You are assuming this trend of wealth passing from generation to generation will work. But it doesn't because not everyone is frugal.
Plus people are living longer these days also. Average life expectancy is 80 years old. Assuming have kids at 28, that means by the time wealth can be passed on, the next generation already 52 years old.
No matter how much wealth is accumulated, it is possible to spend it all within one generation. All you need is one generation who don't understand how hard it is to earn money, and that's it. It will all be gone.
Eldenfirefly
14-06-11, 16:22
or be a SPG and find some ang mo, hopefully he's rich, handsome and young, in that order ;)
Its too late lar, she already married. Obviously her husband not capable enough to provide her with what she needs. So indirectly, she is hinting that her husband not rich enough.
linchong84
14-06-11, 16:34
Well, the Gen Y (actually I am Gen Y also) don't understand this at all. They thought they want to earn 4,000% like their parents also. If the resale ever crash, their parents are the victims. Not all but I am sure quite a lot of them. Especially those looking to downgrade, cash out or whatever. But this is what they want anyway.
I know hopeful might be waiting for a crash or many seasoned players here are also looking at that. Just too bad for those Gen Y and their parents. They get what they ask for, they fully deserve it. Seasoned players got nothing to lose. They know how to play cycle. Gen Y don't. They are still young and naive but never mind. They will see it in a few years time.
Although I also equally angry at her and think she is a goner, but i don't agree with what you said above. HDB stayers are the ones who have nothing to lose if there is a crash. The ones who often crash and burn are the 'seasoned players' who are always optimistic at all kinds of situation, and ended up vested heavily in overpriced pte units. Those HDB stayers can just continue to stay at their current house, nothing's gonna affect them. You talked about there might be some people who want to cash out their HDB but come on is it even a sizable grp? For those who wants to downgrade, they sell cheap, they buy cheaper too, not really much of a loss i guess. And as for the Gen Y first timers, they sure celebrate like crazy..
Now you know why so many people are asking for prices to come down? This world is all about self-interest. Likewise if we go post an article saying that property appreciation is so good and so wondeful, those who don't get to benefit from it will bash the post in those forums visited by younger people too. So, end of the day, everybody got their own situation and interests.. Just hope the govt don't listen to them loh..
proud owner
14-06-11, 16:34
or be a SPG and find some ang mo, hopefully he's rich, handsome and young, in that order ;)
actually alot of ang mohs, rich or not ..are 'kiam ku' ...
a few of my lady friends who married ang mohs...
on the outside they become 'expat wives'...
but really not much $$$
they have a card but how much credit limit we dunno ..
they need cash must ask hubby for it ...
unlike singaporean men ...so stupid ... open joint account with wife
yet women are complaining spore men not romantic ..
if you ever treat women like how ang moh treat them .. you are not a good man
no car - poor
motor bike- useless
but if you are ang moh
motor bike - you so cool
no car - smart ..car too exp
bicyle - you are so healthy
eat hawker centre - good, can socialise with local ... so cute
so i think she shold look for any man ... any one will do just be RICH
linchong84
14-06-11, 16:39
no car - poor
motor bike- useless
but if you are ang moh
motor bike - you so cool
no car - smart ..car too exp
bicyle - you are so healthy
eat hawker centre - good, can socialise with local ... so cute
LOL, SO TRUE!! Are there any female forumers here that can explain this strange symptom? Why is ang mo skin so attractive?
Well, the Gen Y (actually I am Gen Y also) don't understand this at all. They thought they want to earn 4,000% like their parents also. .......
Hehe, I dont want to earn 4000% over 36 years as in your example 25k to 800k.
i am happy if can earn 100% only in 1 cycle, cash-on-cash basis.
example, from $1million cash outlay to ending balance $2million cash by end of cycle.
So far this cycle disappointing for CCR :beats-me-man: well, cannot win all the time.
We are talking about almost the same thing.
Thomas is talking % returns. I am talking about absolute returns.
LOL, SO TRUE!! Are there any female forumers here that can explain this strange symptom? Why is ang mo skin so attractive?
though not being female, let my try.
it is not the skin, it is the attitude.
Have you seen the difference in porn movies?
eg.
Thai production involving thai woman with thai man - like watching puppet dolls or like machines going through the motion.
USA production involving thai woman with black/white man - it is more energetic.
does a CEO makes his own coffee? no he has a OB/OL to make it for him. Indonesia has advantage that it has beggars and children selling newspapers by the roadside. Me and wife would point out that to the kids. How fortunate you are.Do you want to sell newspaper on the road? Then better listen to daddy and mummy, if not daddy mummy throw you by the roadside, and you go find your own living. Well they learned obediance (from parents) and command (the maids) at the same. and also to put the fear of poverty into their still innocent hearts and minds. Don't sweat the small stuff. anyway different parenting system.
A good leader or CEO will always know how/what the ground ppl work/do , including making his own coffee, because they were once at the lowest in corporate ladder. They have been there and done that . Pardon me, i think the message you send to ur kids are not tht correct. We need to let them know, is ok to be poor as long as you have courage(Back bone) and feel proud of what you are doing, including selling newspaper. Poverty is not fear. Lack of survival skill is hopeless Many successful ppl also start from blue colar job.
proud owner
14-06-11, 23:33
though not being female, let my try.
it is not the skin, it is the attitude.
Have you seen the difference in porn movies?
eg.
Thai production involving thai woman with thai man - like watching puppet dolls or like machines going through the motion.
USA production involving thai woman with black/white man - it is more energetic.
i know of many local girls with ang moh bfs
they have to carry their own bags, go super mkt also
go holiday a;so drag their own luggage ...
follow the bfs cycle to work ..etc etc ...
knn
last time they treated their asian bfs like dirt
shout at them : see me carry the storage bag ..so heavy also dunno how to help
"my luggage so heavy ...."
"dont want lah ..so hot ... i take taxi ..you cycle yourself"
i feel sorry for these girls .... bend so much ... in front of friends still can laugh like they strike TOTO
devilplate
15-06-11, 00:17
Most of my female frens dun like angmors....they will say chao ang mor only want sex.....hehe...
kingkong1984
15-06-11, 05:17
Haha, how they know unless they were told...
i know of many local girls with ang moh bfs
they have to carry their own bags, go super mkt also
go holiday a;so drag their own luggage ...
follow the bfs cycle to work ..etc etc ...
knn
last time they treated their asian bfs like dirt
shout at them : see me carry the storage bag ..so heavy also dunno how to help
"my luggage so heavy ...."
"dont want lah ..so hot ... i take taxi ..you cycle yourself"
i feel sorry for these girls .... bend so much ... in front of friends still can laugh like they strike TOTO
it's the attitude.
theory 1.
Singapore men treat women too nice. Women like to be treated like dirt. meaning they like to be ordered to carry their own bags, luggages etc.
theory 2.
Singapore men treat women too nice. Women like to be treated as an equal. meaning they like to be requested to carry their own bags, luggages etc.
LOL, SO TRUE!! Are there any female forumers here that can explain this strange symptom? Why is ang mo skin so attractive?
tats why i always ask why ppl always find ang mo great??? i once saw a young pretty gal with an old ang mo :doh: . this kind of gal really hopeless. they really go all out jus to get a ang mo bf (don care whether they old ugly poor....as long their hair is gold) anyway such ppl do not deserve any sympathy if they are ill-treated by ang mo.....
LOL, SO TRUE!! Are there any female forumers here that can explain this strange symptom? Why is ang mo skin so attractive?
Lol, with all these comments on SPG.. who dare to step out.
linchong84
15-06-11, 18:36
Back to the thread topic..
So how should we teach our kids so that they won't develop the same mentality as that woman?
When kids are young, they listened to what parents said and obeyed but when they grown up, they listened to friends. So friends around them are very important too. :scared-2:
A good leader or CEO will always know how/what the ground ppl work/do , including making his own coffee, because they were once at the lowest in corporate ladder. They have been there and done that . Pardon me, i think the message you send to ur kids are not tht correct. We need to let them know, is ok to be poor as long as you have courage(Back bone) and feel proud of what you are doing, including selling newspaper. Poverty is not fear. Lack of survival skill is hopeless Many successful ppl also start from blue colar job.
poverty is not an option. The rich-poor divide there is so huge.
I would like that FMH & TPL to teach my kids (all girls) their survival technique.
TPL lesson #1 : How to find a rich old man before dumping your current poor bf..
TPL lesson #2 : How to develop a thick face and be deaf to criticism.
FMH lesson #1 : How to climb the corporate ladder by being "friendly" with the bosses.
FMH lesson #2 : How to get yourself /or spouse out of bankruptcy proceedings.
I am pretty sure their lessons would be invaluable but unfortunately i don't want to pay their 15k a month salary.
Back to the thread topic..
So how should we teach our kids so that they won't develop the same mentality as that woman?
they have to be more exposed to the darkside of life.
bring them to the dark alleys of desker where old hookers/trans gather....
bring to drug rehabilitation centre, see live the inmates suffer withdrawal cold turkey.
compulsary watch video of Nazi death camps. (i hope the students dont get excited watching dangling boobs of naked emaciated jewish women nor the government censored the boobs).
It is an fugly world outside singapore.
Singapore govt already show photos on cigarette packs. so this is a step futher.
if you bring them to old folks home, they will only question how come government is not taking care of them.
if you bring them to hospital, they will only question how come medical bills so expensive.
I believe I am more appreciative of what Singapore government has done so far than most young Singaporeans .
This is not about Listening to friends or parents...
This is the consequence from Internet age, materialism. Parents has high expectation from children to make money, to be best in study, etc. Naturally, younger gen will have their priority set on high income, winning. If they don't have high income, they will get it through other mean. With Internet, information flow is fast.
kingkong1984
16-06-11, 03:59
The tiltle should be changed to
We want a pot of gold.
Back to the thread topic..
So how should we teach our kids so that they won't develop the same mentality as that woman?
Go vacation to Laos , cambodia, all the poor and rural parts of countries to experience life there instead of rich and developed cities. Send them to surviving camps instead of tuitions and tuitions.:D :D
This lady journalist is just following PAP theory of GDP growth fuelled by greed, speculation and high pay in fastest time.
Remember Mah Bow Tan was proud that HDB flats appreciate at a faster rate than private housing.
It was Mah Bow Tan that allowed HDB to behave like private property and be allowed to be speculated, profitted, invested and asset enhancement by both PRs and Singaporeans.
She was just following Mah's Creed on HDB Housing, cannot blame her.
Besides PAP's theory for highest pay for Ministers last few years was also the same breadth as this journalist:
No highest pay, no dignity.
No highest pay, Ministers will leave for private sector with their 'talents'.
No highest pay, Ministers will become corrupt if they did not leave for private sector.
No highest pay, Ministers will not be motivated to work.
No highest pay, sky will fall on Singapore and Singaporeans will become maids, jobless and property values will fall.For Ministers and PAP, it is all about me, me, me and not about Singaporeans.
I do not know her and not defending her but all of us also want our dream property at dream location for investment and profit which was why we are at this forum.
Young or old, all of us is the end product of the PAP system and PAP creed in one way or another isnt it ??
Looking at the comments here, I gather most forumers here are old-schooled that believe in hard work, resilience and bits parts of socialism is necessary.
But many instances and PAP policies do not promote all the points discussed by forumers here.
Some comments from Internet to complement the comments here:
How well is well-paid?
By Tan Hui Leng and Jasmie Yen, TODAY | Posted: 10 April 2007 1028
They expressed support for the need to pay top dollar for top talent in the public sector.
But Members of Parliament (MPs) who took part in yesterday's parliamentary debate on the pay hike also spoke passionately about what many Singaporeans believe to be the heart of the issue: The benchmarking formula used to determine ministerial pay.
Ang Mo Kio MP Inderjit Singh noted that Singaporeans could not expect their leaders to serve based on altruism alone. "Are we willing to leave the future of the country to chance, that we will get good people who will give up their competence without caring about their salary?" he asked.
Some MPs, however, saw problems in benchmarking ministers' pay to the private sector, pointing out to disparities in the risks taken by company chief executives and ministers and top civil servants.
Marine Parade MP Lim Biow Chuan said: "I struggle to understand what a top Admin Officer aged 32 at grade SR9 has to worry about that will justify him receiving $363,000 a year … From many people's perspectives, they take no personal risk and are at best, paid employees."
Opposition MPs Mr Chiam See Tong (Potong Pasir) and Hougang's Low Thia Khiang took issue with the fact that Singapore's ministers are paid more than their counterparts in developed countries.
MPs like Bishan-Toa Payoh's Mrs Josephine Teo, however, pointed out that ministers in other countries may make more money after their term in office ends, such as through public speaking.
Some MPs voiced concerns about the timing of announcing the pay revisions, especially with the Goods and Services Tax (GST) due to rise to 7 per cent in July.
Mr Singh said: "How do we answer the man-in-the-street when we're told that about one-quarter to one-third of the expected revenue increase this year from the GST is going to be for the proposed ministerial and civil service salary increases, about $240 million, I was told?"
Mr Low also referred to the recent debate on increasing the amounts for public assistance. "It's also ironic that we are consuming taxpayers' money and … discussing how much more of a fraction of a million to pay civil servants and ministers while we haggle over additional tens of dollars to hand out to our needy and disadvantaged citizens," he said.
Some MPs who supported the pay hike also suggested that the salary benchmarking could be finetuned, such as pegging ministers' salaries to more realistic markers such as top men in private equity firms and top companies based on market capitalisation
======
MINISTER Mentor Lee Kuan Yew called for a sense of proportion yesterday, pointing out that the annual wage bill for ministers and all office holders is $46 million - or just 0.022 per cent of Singapore's total economic output.
It was an 'absurdity', he said, for Singaporeans to quarrel over whether ministers collectively should be paid $10 million or $20 million more, when an economy worth $210 billion was at stake
'The cure to all this talk is really a good dose of incompetent government,' he said in his first comments on impending salary increases for ministers and top civil servants. 'You get that alternative and you'll never put Singapore together again.'
Singaporeans' asset values would also disappear, he warned, adding that 'your apartment will be worth a fraction of what it is, your jobs will be in peril, your security will be at risk and our women will become maids in other people's countries'.
He said the present system of benchmarking ministers' pay to top private sector salaries was 'completely above board' and allowed the Government to recruit 'some of the very best' to lead the country
When it was put to him that people hoped for leaders who were willing to make sacrifices and who were not there for the money, he replied that these were 'admirable sentiments'. But he added that 'we live in the real world'.
His bottom line: if the Government could not pay competitive salaries, Singapore would not be able to compete and 'we're not going to live well'.
========
PM Lee, dont bother to apologise at GE 2016 or future GEs anymore.
All the talk about inclusiveness and transformation are all lies when PAP old dirty practices continue to come into play each time an election is over.
What transformation , i...nclusiveness, healing, moving together is PM Lee spouting ???
Dont even bother to apologise and give heart-thumping motivational speeches because you dont mean it.
The resentment remains.
1. MP Irene Ng is jealous about media attention for WP MPS at Aljunied GRC and make cynical remarks about it at her FB.
2. MP Lim Wee Kiak indicate dignity is measured by salary.
3. Woodlands Water Tank negligence.
4.Balestier Flood negligence that cost a life.
5. WP cannot build kindergarten at their areas.
6. WP force to conduct MPS at void deck.
7. Allow MPs to build MPS office at void deck but still want to collect rent.
8. GM of Jurong Town Council Ho Thian Poh (who is PAP member) sack Geraldine Soh just because she help NSP sell merchandise.
9. Aljunied GRC handover to WP is delayed by audit and administrative issues cause by previous PAP administration.
10. Sitoh sack 16 staff members from Potong Pasir Town Council and ask them join outsourcing company EM Services to serve elsewhere.
11. Government and civil service continue to mistreat and ill-treat Opposition areas and Opposition MPs in funding, planning and development.
12. Floods in Singapore. Even buildings got floods.
======================
In pre-election CNA conversation with chosen Singaporeans, PM Lee said cash/upgrading is incentives to vote PAP.
When PAP need to give out incentives like free parking, KTVs, free usage of facilities in CCs and RCs, priority entrance to Pha...se 2B for schools etc for people to volunteer for PA grassroots , the decay started.
WP grassroots do not have such incentives, still willing to serve the people.
When PAP need to give out incentives like cash and upgrading etc for people to vote PAP , the decay started.
PAP no longer rely on quality of candidates and quality of policies to win votes.
WP voters did not need incentives to vote WP.
Singaporeans are trained to accept incentives for 20-30 years under PAP culture.
PAP election tactics weakens Singaporean character, resilience and steel. It encourages greed.
When war starts, will Singaporeans who are trained in accepting incentives surrender if enemy give out incentives to Singaporeans to surrender too ??
============
What is the difference between FIFA's cash for votes scandal and Singapore's cash/upgrading for vote ??
Why viewed differently at different places ?? Why in Singapore not scandal too ??
FIFA got higher moral standards ??
...
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/fifa-chief-blatter-set-election-vows-reform-115817232.html (http://sg.news.yahoo.com/fifa-chief-blatter-set-election-vows-reform-115817232.html)
===============
Visiting the revamped area on Sunday, Prime Minister Lee reminded Singaporeans to be responsible for the facilities even as they enjoy them.
He said: "We all have parts to play to keep public places and our waterways clean. We must prevent ...the litter from choking up our drains, otherwise the litter will find its way into the drains, into the canals, into the reservoirs and pollute our water supply."
Turning to the recent floods, Mr Lee said Singapore must learn from the episodes and upgrade its infrastructure and systems.
He said: "We will continue to implement new drainage works, improve the design of the drainage systems and to deal with more intense storms. But I don't think it's possible in Singapore to expect the place to be completely free of floods.
Because if you're going to do that, you'll have to have huge tracts of land put aside for huge monsoon drains which will be empty most of the time, the land is tied up, the infrastructure will cost a lot of money."
Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong, Channel Newsasia, 27 June 2010
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Said Mr Lee: “The PAP makes promises they deliver. The Opposition cannot deliver.”
“If you have a flood, just carefully think who is more likely to get the drainage put right and have the flood alleviated as quickly as possible: A PAP candidate with links to the ministers and Prime Minister, or a non-PAP candidate who has become an MP, like in Potong Pasir or Hougang, and who has to manage on his own?”
“That’s a fact of life.”
Source: Today newspaper, “MM Lee explains his tough stance against Opposition, throws a challenge“, 29 April 2006.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
“How many of you followed the latest tragic events in Japan with the tsunami…and then put into context our floods in Singapore against that kind of disaster.
“I am not saying we shouldn’t do anything about the flood. But the amount of noise you made with just sporadic flood compared to the Japanese. I saw them on TV. Very stoic looking. You don’t see them crying. This has happened, just get on, that’s the kind of spirit you want to have and you call it nation building.”
SM Goh Chok Tong, Channel Newsasia, 12 March 2011
---------------------------------------------------
THURSDAY'S deluge which submerged parts of Bukit Timah was a 'freak' event that occurs once in 50 years, Minister for the Environment and Water Resources Yaacob Ibrahim said yesterday.
'What happened was very unusual,' he said. 'The intensity was tremendous.'
Shortly after 1pm the skies opened and in the next two hours, almost 110mm of rain fell - almost half the average monthly rainfall for November.
Dr Yaacob said: "I hope the public will have more patience with us because it will take us some time to enlarge those drains. But having said that, it is not possible for us to plan for every event.
"Yesterday's event, I was told by the PUB, occurs once every 50 years. It could be tomorrow. But we have to plan accordingly. Most importantly, we have to have a proper drainage system... (that is) being continually upgraded, and a proper response system."
Environment and Water Resources Minister Yaacob Ibrahim, Channel Newsasia, 20 November 2009
--------------------------------------------------------
He said: "Whatever we do, when we get extraordinary rainfall - like we had recently - no amount of engineering can prevent flooding.
Mr Lee added: "Somethings are beyond (that); it's an act of God unless you want to lose half the roads and have canals."
Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew , Channel Newsasia, 21 July 2010
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