View Full Version : Hong Kong homes becoming unattainable for the masses
Hong Kong homes becoming unattainable for the masses
By Leslie Tang | Posted: 31 March 2011 1421 hrs
HONG KONG: There is growing concern in Hong Kong that homes are becoming unattainable for regular citizens.
Some young professionals are having a tough time buying their first home, and are forced to move to outlying areas.
Market watchers attributed the red hot market to low interest rates, tight supply and hot money from mainland buyers.
Raymond So, Professor of Finance, Hang Seng Management College, said: "The prices are not affordable to a normal person. The property prices are too high. When you look at the statistics, it's still affordable but to many people it is out of reach to the masses."
It is a dilemma that newly-wed couples in their 30's can relate to.
Tsang Chi-ho, who is a host for public broadcaster Radio Television Hong Kong and his wife Sandy, who is a teacher, got married last year and have spent about six months house-hunting for their first home.
Although Sandy loves Hong Kong Island, the steep prices meant living there wasn't even an option.
And across the harbour in Kowloon district, they felt the property prices were were too small and overpriced.
"They introduced us to a tiny square-feet flat, about 300 or 500 square feet but the price is five million HK dollars. What I can get for the view is only another building. I can see my neighbour through the window and say hi to him," said Tsang.
The couple ended up venturing further out to Sham Tseng in the New Territories and bought a 770 square-foot apartment for 2.36 million HK dollars (US$300,000).
Though located far away from the city centre, they said the space and sea view is worth it but still needed some help with the payment.
"In my case, I need to ask my parents to help me to pay the first payment. I think it is a little bit shame on me because I'm 30 years old but I still need my parents to help me to buy the flat," said Tsang.
Economists said the situation is likely to impact community demographics.
"Because they cannot get an apartment of their own, they have to live with their parents and the time they get married will be delayed. When they talk about getting children, getting kids, they will be more careful whether they want to make that decision or not," said Professor So.
A recent survey showed Hong Kong is the most expensive major city in the world to buy a home, beating out London and New York.
Economists say if prices do not cool significantly, it is likely more young professionals will be moving to outlying areas to buy a home.
- CNA/fa
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/eastasia/view/1119877/1/.html (http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/eastasia/view/1119877/1/.html)
a tiny square-feet flat, about 300 or 500 square feet but the price is five million HK dollars. What I can get for the view is only another building.....further out to Sham Tseng in the New Territories and bought a 770 square-foot apartment for 2.36 million HK dollars (US$300,000). Though located far away from the city centre, they said the space and sea view
A recent survey showed Hong Kong is the most expensive major city in the world to buy a home, beating out London and New York
Are we far behind? Or Sg ppty caught up too fast?
bargain hunter
01-04-11, 14:12
my view is that MM in HK is for the masses while here its marketed as "luxury" sometimes. so our prices are not that far off from hk if we are solely comparing MMs.
a tiny square-feet flat, about 300 or 500 square feet but the price is five million HK dollars. What I can get for the view is only another building.....further out to Sham Tseng in the New Territories and bought a 770 square-foot apartment for 2.36 million HK dollars (US$300,000). Though located far away from the city centre, they said the space and sea view
A recent survey showed Hong Kong is the most expensive major city in the world to buy a home, beating out London and New York
Are we far behind? Or Sg ppty caught up too fast?
Wild Falcon
01-04-11, 14:53
Not far behind at all. The US$300k for an outskirt 770sqft only translates to US$389psf which is only S$490psf. How to find $490psf private home in Singapore unless HDB?
a tiny square-feet flat, about 300 or 500 square feet but the price is five million HK dollars. What I can get for the view is only another building.....further out to Sham Tseng in the New Territories and bought a 770 square-foot apartment for 2.36 million HK dollars (US$300,000). Though located far away from the city centre, they said the space and sea view
A recent survey showed Hong Kong is the most expensive major city in the world to buy a home, beating out London and New York
Are we far behind? Or Sg ppty caught up too fast?
Doran anyone have any idea what are prices like for central, TTS Kowloon and other out lying areas? I don't think we should compare those headline grabbing sales, but on average in this areas how much it will costs.... I think Central can be compared to orchard road and marina bay, TTS Kowloon maybe holland road, bishan, queenstown area, and the rest will be ocr areas... Once we know then we compare whether sg over priced.... Hkg must always be two times more expensive than sin, if the gap is smaller than that, we have a problem..
bargain hunter
01-04-11, 14:57
i m pretty sure the gap is less than 2 times. but need a hk investor to enlighten us on the specifics. any hk investor guru like laguna or hk313 or anyone else can help us out here?
Doran anyone have any idea what are prices like for central, TTS Kowloon and other out lying areas? I don't think we should compare those headline grabbing sales, but on average in this areas how much it will costs.... I think Central can be compared to orchard road and marina bay, TTS Kowloon maybe holland road, bishan, queenstown area, and the rest will be ocr areas... Once we know then we compare whether sg over priced.... Hkg must always be two times more expensive than sin, if the gap is smaller than that, we have a problem..
Yes we need help..... Can some hk guru tell us what is the equivalent of of marina bay, orchard road, holland road, bishan, queens town, tam pines etc.. In hkg? And any website like URA where we can check the prices.... This is impt... If we are too close I can guarantee there are no upside to sg properties Liao... Sg always keep a distance away from Tokyo, hkg, Sydney and then try to remain on par with tpe sha beijing.... Comments and help please... The best is if they have a URA website like ours
Hong Kong homes becoming unattainable for the masses
By Leslie Tang | Posted: 31 March 2011 1421 hrs
......
Some young professionals are having a tough time buying their first home, and are forced to move to outlying areas.
.........
Economists say if prices do not cool significantly, it is likely more young professionals will be moving to outlying areas to buy a home.
.....
Anything wrong with that? next will be young professionals complaining cannot afford rolls royce to take them from outlying areas to city centre. :doh:
You are right... What is wrong with staying at outlying areas? Their mtr so convenient... Ay jet newly we'd some more and want to stay on hongkong island lolx...
Not far behind at all. The US$300k for an outskirt 770sqft only translates to US$389psf which is only S$490psf. How to find $490psf private home in Singapore unless HDB?
I think common area is counted in flat size. so assuming 20% common area, that translates to 616sf, us$487psf or s$618psf.
That is a flat, equivalent of an Apt here with no facilities (not condo) or could actually be equivalent to HDB flat? :p
I think common area is counted in flat size. so assuming 20% common area, that translates to 616sf, us$487psf or s$618psf.
this is the site provides details of property transaction in HK
http://www.centadata.com/
I just came back from HK, and this round empty handed back. The prices are truly frightening, up 25% in six months despite of all the cooling measures, LTV controls, SSD, debt serving ratio, the prices are simply one way. There were few "fire sales" during the Japan crisis period but rather isolated cases. HSI is moving up again. HK govt simply can't do much as there is no public housing under home ownership program.
There are more than 28,000 of buildings >20 years old and hardly maintained. Yet it is so difficult to move out the owners of old properties (>40 years). As such, u can see number of projects, with new buildings and yet an old building just in between. Or new buildings, u look out from the window, is always walls of old buildings around u. Most of these old buildings are in prime locations. This has reduced the land supply in prime location significantly.
Now, in HK, we are calling new projects "pencil" projects. New projects in HK central areas are running >HK$20,000 psf with efficiency index of 70%. Even in Kowloon station, it is running at >HK$20,000 as well.
I think common area is counted in flat size. so assuming 20% common area, that translates to 616sf, us$487psf or s$618psf.
I had raised this issue of our property prices a few weeks back over here:
http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=11000
While our GFA doesn't include the common areas, we have useless areas such as air-con ledges and bay windows. The extremely high psf raises a few issues:
(1) Why is taking BCA such a long time to plug this simple loop hole?
(2) Our property prices have escalated too rapidly right after the government relaxed the immigration around 2005. The government was too slow to speed up building then, and too slow to slow down GLS or BTOs.
(3) In view of rising psf, more people are unable to buy properly sized 2-3 bedroom flats and this raised the demand for studio or 1-bedroom MM further, thus pushing up the psf even higher. This means we might be equal to Hong Kong property psf by the end of this year. We don't have a rich booming China right beside us to provide buffer to the property market.
Note that MBT had highlighted 33k units unsold. For that were sold to owners for own-stay, the owners may need to rent out their existing unit when the new unit TOP. Thus we are looking at around probably 1000 units added to rental market every month next year due to pte condo TOP. Is this sustainable for the rental market?
These is my concern for next year. Those who rent out their units recently are welcome to share your experience to verify or dispute my views above :)
Found some links
PPI & ppty listings
http://www.squarefoot.com.hk/
harbour front proj
http://www.the-latitude.com.hk/
units layout
http://www.the-latitude.com.hk/pdf/latitude_InfoBook.pdf
price list, Sg should learn from them. Indicates apportioned common area, bay window area etc
http://www.the-latitude.com.hk/pdf/pricelist.pdf
this is the site provides details of property transaction in HK
http://www.centadata.com/
I just came back from HK, and this round empty handed back. The prices are truly frightening, up 25% in six months despite of all the cooling measures, LTV controls, SSD, debt serving ratio, the prices are simply one way. There were few "fire sales" during the Japan crisis period but rather isolated cases. HSI is moving up again. HK govt simply can't do much as there is no public housing under home ownership program.
There are more than 28,000 of buildings >20 years old and hardly maintained. Yet it is so difficult to move out the owners of old properties (>40 years). As such, u can see number of projects, with new buildings and yet an old building just in between. Or new buildings, u look out from the window, is always walls of old buildings around u. Most of these old buildings are in prime locations.
This has reduced the land supply in prime location significantly.
Now, in HK, we are calling new projects "pencil" projects. New projects in HK central areas are running >HK$20,000 psf with efficiency index of 70%. Even in Kowloon station, it is running at >HK$20,000 as well.
At 20k psf it translate in 3333 psf SGD, so Singapore prices higher?
there are public housings in HK. See housingauthority.gov.sg. It has a large rental program for families who truly cannot afford. It used to build HDB style public housing for sale too, the famous "25000 a year" program by tung chee hwa. That program was shot down by the business community in 2003 because it competes with the private developers. Singaporeans truly had NO idea how lucky we are.
Btw the quoted article is nothing new. Newly weds had never been able to buy anything in hk island. Living in new territory is the norm. Nothing special. Hk is very big. Many many many condos in new territory are perfectly affordable.
At 20k psf it translate in 3333 psf SGD, so Singapore prices higher?
Brand new condo sitting on top of Kowloon station is doing in average 15000. That's RCR of SG. Considering it counted lift lobby and dead space almost 25%, in SG terms that-'s almost 3000 psf. And it has no car park lot. Sold separately. Club membership also sold separately.
Brand new condo in further in new territory is only doing 5 to 6k. SG pricing is already catching up, e.g lakefront !
Luxury ones on hk island east are doing at least 30k above. Way above SG, around 2 times. These projects are built better than SG ones. For example built in whole house fiber network, audiophile cabling included, German intelligent automation system, etc. SG luxury still has much to learn.
In my view, SG OCR has indeed closed the gap. But for CCR not yet.
So RCR and CCR we are still 50% cheaper while OCR we are on par?
devilplate
02-04-11, 00:40
So RCR and CCR we are still 50% cheaper while OCR we are on par?
ccr corelate to sti index(blue chips)? hehe.... wait till sti cross 3800pts(previous peak) den we might b seeing ccr chiong:2cents: and if we ever see ccr chionging, its about time for down cycle liao:2cents:
current cycle is bottom up....supported by HDB in fact:2cents:
rental of ocr kind of supported by hdb as well....hdb 3rm flat easily cost 1.5-1.8k....tats y ocr condo 2bedder easily fetch 2.5k
and the funny thing is prc buyer prefer ocr...lol....
rattydrama
02-04-11, 02:01
c
and the funny thing is prc buyer prefer ocr...lol....
value for $?
There are more than 28,000 of buildings >20 years old and hardly maintained.
correction : 2,800 buildings and not 28,000
Found some links
PPI & ppty listings
http://www.squarefoot.com.hk/
harbour front proj
http://www.the-latitude.com.hk/
units layout
http://www.the-latitude.com.hk/pdf/latitude_InfoBook.pdf
price list, Sg should learn from them. Indicates apportioned common area, bay window area etc
http://www.the-latitude.com.hk/pdf/pricelist.pdf
In the Centadata, u can find a tab on top where u can find all new properties.
value for $?
Or they feel more at home living in OCR? Eating in kopi tiam, can talk loudly..., can easily converse in mandarin,
Didn't you know their really rich like to buy Prada, LV, to be seen in Mercedes S-series / BMW 7-series or even higher range, walk in and out of luxury properties etc? Their RICH will rather jump from the tall building than to be seen eating in kopi tiam! :p
Their poor rather be pros / er-nai or even san-nai (& their parents encourage their children to do so) to earn $Millions since the saying goes: "can laugh at poor but not the prostitute". :eek:
Or they feel more at home living in OCR? Eating in kopi tiam, can talk loudly..., can easily converse in mandarin,
don't know man....:beats-me-man:
Some of the really rich as so unassuming that you don't know that they are rich....
Some of those that flaunt their branded stuff are full of debt.....
:2cents:
Didn't you know their really rich like to buy Prada, LV, to be seen in Mercedes S-series / BMW 7-series or even higher range, walk in and out of luxury properties etc? Their RICH will rather jump from the tall building than to be seen eating in kopi tiam! :p
Their poor rather be pros / er-nai or even san-nai (& their parents encourage their children to do so) to earn $Millions since the saying goes: "can laugh at poor but not the prostitute". :eek:
Ya..., kinda of true...LV and Gucci top of the list, no $, die die also must find ways to buy...., guess if seen in kopi tiam holding LV or Gucci, people will say A grade...., maybe those buying OCR are those who has been working here for sometime, not the RICH that are buying their holidays homes here...., or maybe our super rich locals staying in CCR giving OCR presents to their er-nai and San-nai...:D
本港分層住宅呎價最高排名
西半山天匯 61樓 B室
面積： 5636方呎 成交價： 3.3816億元 呎價： 60000元
淺水灣南灣道Belgravia頂層B室複式戶
面積 : 3845方呎 成交價：2.1500億元 呎價： 5.59萬元
Belgravia頂層A室複式戶
面積 : 3675方呎 成交價： 1.8200億元 呎價： 4.95萬元
中半山 The Albany36樓複式
面積： 6830方呎 成交價： 3.3800億元 呎價： 49488元
大坑上林1座68樓A室連平台特色戶＊
面積：3755方呎 成交價： 1.7000億元 呎價： 45273元
尖沙嘴凱旋門觀星閣 77樓 A室
面積：3323方呎 成交價： 1.46477億元 呎價： 44080元
中半山 Branksome Crest51樓特色戶
面積： 4620方呎 成交價： 2.0300億元 呎價： 43939元
西半山懿峯 62樓 A室
面積： 2348方呎 成交價： 0.9807億元 呎價： 41767元
尖沙嘴凱旋門映月閣 80樓 A室
面積： 5497方呎 成交價： 2.2600億元 呎價： 41113元
devilplate
11-04-11, 10:28
dun understand...in terms of PSF how much?
bargain hunter
11-04-11, 11:08
the red one = hkd 55,900psf = sgd 9kpsf?
dun understand...in terms of PSF how much?
dun understand...in terms of PSF how much?
aiyo, that number divide by 6 is SGD psf
devilplate
11-04-11, 16:25
aiyo, that number divide by 6 is SGD psf
roughly divide by 110 to convert bck to psf from psqm?
bargain hunter
11-04-11, 16:45
cannot just divide by 6! current rate is 6.186...3.1% difference is significant hor. :D
aiyo, that number divide by 6 is SGD psf
bargain hunter
11-04-11, 16:46
psf to psqm is divide by 10.764.
roughly divide by 110 to convert bck to psf from psqm?
devilplate
11-04-11, 16:48
psf to psqm is divide by 10.764.
getting confused....red ink states 55900psqm?
bargain hunter
11-04-11, 16:50
1 "wan" is ten thousand and its already in sq ft, not sq m.
getting confused....red ink states 5.59mil psqm?
devilplate
11-04-11, 16:52
1 "wan" is ten thousand and its already in sq ft, not sq m.
hahaha...:ashamed1:
bargain hunter
11-04-11, 16:54
think u got confused coz below 4x,xxx then the top one wrote 5.x "wan" when it is actually the same as 5x,xxx. well, different developer like to report in different formats hahaha.
hahaha...:ashamed1:
西半山天匯 61樓 B室
面積： 5636方呎 成交價： 3.3816億元 呎價： 60000元
sori for the confusion
area : 5,636 sq ft
price done : HK$338,160,000
psf price HK$60,000
or S$9,700
phantom_opera
12-04-11, 10:07
西半山天匯 61樓 B室
面積： 5636方呎 成交價： 3.3816億元 呎價： 60000元
sori for the confusion
area : 5,636 sq ft
price done : HK$338,160,000
psf price HK$60,000
or S$9,700
This is close to Japanese property bubble peak of 10,000USD psf
roughly divide by 110 to convert bck to psf from psqm?
no no need, "呎價" is literally psf.
phantom: u still remember the 88000HKD psf "story" last year ? ;)
Regulators
12-04-11, 12:58
just saw this post. LV is no longer an A class label coz any ordinary working class girl can afford it these days, unless you talking about the croc skin edition. I would say Hermes is for the rich these days
Ya..., kinda of true...LV and Gucci top of the list, no $, die die also must find ways to buy...., guess if seen in kopi tiam holding LV or Gucci, people will say A grade...., maybe those buying OCR are those who has been working here for sometime, not the RICH that are buying their holidays homes here...., or maybe our super rich locals staying in CCR giving OCR presents to their er-nai and San-nai...:D
just saw this post. LV is no longer an A class label coz any ordinary working class girl can afford it these days, unless you talking about the croc skin edition. I would say Hermes is for the rich these days
There are so many second hand branded handbag shops in HK.
LV, Guccis, are no longer in the buuy list for many.
For Hermes, u look at the Birkin, many in the second hand market for sales
西半山天匯 61樓 B室
面積： 5636方呎 成交價： 3.3816億元 呎價： 60000元
This record had just been broken, 64000 psf now
據知情人士透露，成交的天匯單位為六十六樓A半複式戶，日前獲一名內地豪客購入，成交價約三億六千萬元，按單位建築面積五千六百三十六方呎計，呎價達六萬四千元。
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