View Full Version : Mah Bow Tan- Curb your Enthusiasm
These are quotations from MBT interview with ST.
"33,000 is hell of a lot of unsold flats. There is a risk, there's no doubt about it. That's why we have to be careful and the market must take this into account...."
"Unfortunately, sometimes people don't realise it. They get caught up in the excitement of the market. They hear friends making a lot of money and they also want to jump in and I think that's the problem with the property market."
"So when you buy and you hope to sell after your four year period is over, don't forget that by that time there may be a lot more people trying to do the same. If your interest rates start to go up, then what do you do?"
"That argument that we should do nothing because it is a private market is quite flawed one because there's no such things as a totally free market."
proud owner
23-03-11, 10:39
These are quotations from MBT interview with ST.
"33,000 is hell of a lot of unsold flats. There is a risk, there's no doubt about it. That's why we have to be careful and the market must take this into account...."
"Unfortunately, sometimes people don't realise it. They get caught up in the excitement of the market. They hear friends making a lot of money and they also want to jump in and I think that's the problem with the property market."
"So when you buy and you hope to sell after your four year period is over, don't forget that by that time there may be a lot more people trying to do the same. If your interest rates start to go up, then what do you do?"
"That argument that we should do nothing because it is a private market is quite flawed one because there's no such things as a totally free market."
i also hear alot of people joining in the new PAP ... making crap loads of money
should we all jump in too ???
devilplate
23-03-11, 10:44
i also hear alot of people joining in the new PAP ... making crap loads of money
should we all jump in too ???
omg....pls dun help to spread politics in this forum...
omg....pls dun help to spread politics in this forum...
no more "ignore ignore ignore ignore?" :D
Wild Falcon
23-03-11, 11:17
I think MBT need to neutralise what LKY said "your property value will NEVER go down". :cheers6:
i also hear alot of people joining in the new PAP ... making crap loads of money
should we all jump in too ???
Jump in now too late liao. The wave is over I think. Missed da boat liao.
proud owner
23-03-11, 11:36
Jump in now too late liao. The wave is over I think. Missed da boat liao.
Damn ...............
those who have gotten hold of MBT's book ...
is it a small pocket size one ??? in line with the man himself ?
devilplate
23-03-11, 11:40
no more "ignore ignore ignore ignore?" :D
i love this forum until somebody starts to spread political virus!!!
cannot ignore liao!!!:simmering: :simmering: :simmering:
devilplate
23-03-11, 11:43
Jump in now too late liao. The wave is over I think. Missed da boat liao.
anyway u decided to get another MM instead of HDB last yr bcoz nid to sell all pte ppty away?....:D
Allthepies
23-03-11, 12:48
Jump in now too late liao. The wave is over I think. Missed da boat liao.
may not be with inflation hitting 5% this month...
devilplate
23-03-11, 13:01
may not be with inflation hitting 5% this month...
dun tink any1 buy HDB as a hedge rite? got MOP 5yrs leh....cannot rent out immed...
MBT is trying hard to shift all the housing mess blame to Singaporeans.
Speculators and Investors are not majority property buyers as mentioned by property experts.
This is why 4 cooling measures did not work.
No matter how government deflect blame to Singaporeans for housing, transportation, floods etc.,
MBT should bear responsibility for this housing roller coaster rides these past 5 years.
poor planning, inadequate needs analysis, slow preventive and pro-active measures.
all business are like that. whether hawker centre or million dollar business. the boss must always look forward, think ahead and recourse quickly.
so, has hdb stand up to its capability? any business can blame external factors and nothing wrong with the company.
poor planning, inadequate needs analysis, slow preventive and pro-active measures.
all business are like that. whether hawker centre or million dollar business. the boss must always look forward, think ahead and recourse quickly.
so, has hdb stand up to its capability? any business can blame external factors and nothing wrong with the company.
errr...if you consider HDB to be a business, then isn't it doing well as a business? No excess inventories as in no overbuilding. So no/little holding costs etc.
MBT is trying hard to shift all the housing mess blame to Singaporeans.
Speculators and Investors are not majority property buyers as mentioned by property experts.
This is why 4 cooling measures did not work.
No matter how government deflect blame to Singaporeans for housing, transportation, floods etc.,
MBT should bear responsibility for this housing roller coaster rides these past 5 years.
Wenqing u missed the boat? u need to know 85% of the population on the boat is happy cos their property hyper appreciate. Only a small % population whom is not on the boat now buay song u know.....
Although siting on a few hundred k paper profit on a HDB, many pple still cant help but feel shiok.
The 4th measure didnt work? may i ask if u are buying a 3rd or 4th property or in the process of buying now? or u havnt get your first? if havnt get another one is confirm the measures are working liao.
MBT in on a pricky situation, 85% of pple make $$$ but pple still buay song him. Maybe when pple order chicken satay, he deliver pork and he try all means why he didnt give u chicken satay. If only he quickly go make some more satay instead of trying to justify why is satay are more expensive while he is bbqing them.
Wenqing, dont worry, just get on a smaller boat. U can wait for the next one but it will be funny when u wait till cannot wait then end up on pirate boat.
Wenqing u missed the boat? u need to know 85% of the population on the boat is happy cos their property hyper appreciate. Only a small % population whom is not on the boat now buay song u know.....
Although siting on a few hundred k paper profit on a HDB, many pple still cant help but feel shiok.
The 4th measure didnt work? may i ask if u are buying a 3rd or 4th property or in the process of buying now? or u havnt get your first? if havnt get another one is confirm the measures are working liao.
MBT in on a pricky situation, 85% of pple make $$$ but pple still buay song him. Maybe when pple order chicken satay, he deliver pork and he try all means why he didnt give u chicken satay. If only he quickly go make some more satay instead of trying to justify why is satay are more expensive while he is bbqing them.
Wenqing, dont worry, just get on a smaller boat. U can wait for the next one but it will be funny when u wait till cannot wait then end up on pirate boat.
Your satay so cheeeeem
Catch no sotong ball.
Like you say,everything on paper only.
Sell high, buy high, don't see how people can gain.
:beats-me-man: :beats-me-man: :beats-me-man: :beats-me-man:
nobody should time market with the roof over the head.
U need to know alot of pple here are benefiting from the ran up as they own multiple properties and are siting on fat paper gain n collecting good rental yield based on the relatively cheaper price they entered.
wanna benefit from the game, i think need 2 properties to be in the game. So point only applies to pple whom are not in the game yet. i personally know someone whom sold 1 property in 2008 and put it into 2 CCR properties in 2009. Now sitting on easily another 1m paper gain just over 2 years.
High price no use? Yup it applies to those not in the game. Pple like regulator are laughing all the way to the bank. Maybe they dont bother to explain to u only. :hell-hath-no-fury:
and 1 more thing, if u dont start with the first one.... u forever will be thinking high price so what, dont know how it can benefit me. The only difference is that, 30 years down the road, u will be thinking.... i should have bought that unit 1 aim 30 years ago. Good luck hunting
Wenqing u missed the boat? u need to know 85% of the population on the boat is happy cos their property hyper appreciate. Only a small % population whom is not on the boat now buay song u know.....
Although siting on a few hundred k paper profit on a HDB, many pple still cant help but feel shiok.
The 4th measure didnt work? may i ask if u are buying a 3rd or 4th property or in the process of buying now? or u havnt get your first? if havnt get another one is confirm the measures are working liao.
MBT in on a pricky situation, 85% of pple make $$$ but pple still buay song him. Maybe when pple order chicken satay, he deliver pork and he try all means why he didnt give u chicken satay. If only he quickly go make some more satay instead of trying to justify why is satay are more expensive while he is bbqing them.
Wenqing, dont worry, just get on a smaller boat. U can wait for the next one but it will be funny when u wait till cannot wait then end up on pirate boat.
Can we own more than 1 HDB?
Can we flip HDB like no business?
Flat price high got use meh?
Your logic are almost similar to Mr Lim from NTUC. Apparently, every now and then when he read his CPF statement, he feel very rich and the money don't run away.
Dun't believe? watch this :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao-DGAw1Q2o&feature=related
Can we own more than 1 HDB?
Can we flip HDB like no business?
Flat price high got use meh?
Your logic are almost similar to Mr Lim from NTUC. Apparently, every now and then when he read his CPF statement, he feel very rich and the money don't run away.
Dun't believe? watch this :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao-DGAw1Q2o&feature=related
HDB buy to stay ba...... got 5 yr MOP how to flip? Can only own 1 beause its for u to stay one. flat high price is good if you are owner, no good if u dont have one. In the first place HDB is meant to be a home for Singaporeans. Its not meant to be flip and speculate.
if its not meant to be speculated then y are u upset whether its high price or not. U are only renting to stay in only, what difference if MBT sell u expensive or cheap. Cheap u will say buy bo huay, negative equity. Expensive u say sell high , buy higher. nothing will please u anyway.
I m just saying if wanna benefit from property cycles , need to have a 2nd property to buy low n sell high or buy high to sell higher.
well, i prefer to be on paper gain then paper lost. frankly if one is saying HDB is very expensive and condo even more ex.... then y make yourself unhappy, see pple rich cannot sleep. be contended and live with one's means lor.
Too bad i dont have any $$$ in CPF cos i dont contribute to it , if not i would like to feel how mr lim feel when he look at it.
At 60% LTV and 16% SSD, i think the buyers are cool and rational and there should be no more enthusiasm.
Condo Kaiser
26-03-11, 19:37
there is definitely no more enthusiasm in the market now.
just a lot of rich folks waiting for prices to drop and enter the market again.
also a lot of poor people who needs to start a family and find themselves priced out of condos, resale hdb and only realistic option is to postone everything for 4 years and wait for first hand HDB.
HDB buy to stay ba...... got 5 yr MOP how to flip? Can only own 1 beause its for u to stay one. flat high price is good if you are owner, no good if u dont have one. In the first place HDB is meant to be a home for Singaporeans. Its not meant to be flip and speculate.
if its not meant to be speculated then y are u upset whether its high price or not. U are only renting to stay in only, what difference if MBT sell u expensive or cheap. Cheap u will say buy bo huay, negative equity. Expensive u say sell high , buy higher. nothing will please u anyway.
I m just saying if wanna benefit from property cycles , need to have a 2nd property to buy low n sell high or buy high to sell higher.
well, i prefer to be on paper gain then paper lost. frankly if one is saying HDB is very expensive and condo even more ex.... then y make yourself unhappy, see pple rich cannot sleep. be contended and live with one's means lor.
Too bad i dont have any $$$ in CPF cos i dont contribute to it , if not i would like to feel how mr lim feel when he look at it.
Since it's for staying.. then high $$ got use meh?
As a matter of fact, this will push up price further for our children to bear.
If you look at it from the other angle, it's more like a ponzi scheme leh... the bomb will explore some day. Who suffer?
At the end of the day, all of us are rich in paper while someone else really reach in real $$$ and I think you know who.
Wake up.:2cents:
Since it's for staying.. then high $$ got use meh?
As a matter of fact, this will push up price further for our children to bear.
If you look at it from the other angle, it's more like a ponzi scheme leh... the bomb will explore some day. Who suffer?
At the end of the day, all of us are rich in paper while someone else really reach in real $$$ and I think you know who.
Wake up.:2cents:
Since u are talking more abt politics rather than housing, there issnt much more to talk about issit it. As long as u dont go casino and lose all your $$$, your children will be ok when u KO and prices remain long. So remember to KO when prices are high ya. Also dont forget to buy mortgage insurance.
maybe u live on a different Singapore, but i do know living businessman/Professionals whom are rich and they are not on paper. Anyway i think u are right, our children will suffer someday but i know is not today.
Now that u mention maybe i leave 1 HDB & 1 CCR condo for them so when price is sky high(if it happens again) they will be both rich on paper and rich on pocket when they sell. Would i destroy their life?
also a lot of poor people who needs to start a family and find themselves priced out of condos, resale hdb and only realistic option is to postone everything for 4 years and wait for first hand HDB.
... And what's wrong with that ? In a lot of countries, a lot of poor ppl have no dream of owning a house ever.
Start simple is ok what. 5y is for u to save real hard and get mature and sophisticated , so u can make the right choice when you are ready.
Since u are talking more abt politics rather than housing, there issnt much more to talk about issit it. As long as u dont go casino and lose all your $$$, your children will be ok when u KO and prices remain long. So remember to KO when prices are high ya. Also dont forget to buy mortgage insurance.
maybe u live on a different Singapore, but i do know living businessman/Professionals whom are rich and they are not on paper. Anyway i think u are right, our children will suffer someday but i know is not today.
Now that u mention maybe i leave 1 HDB & 1 CCR condo for them so when price is sky high(if it happens again) they will be both rich on paper and rich on pocket when they sell. Would i destroy their life?
Good strategy to keep 1 HDB & 1 CCR condo if you have 1 kid, best keep at least one for each kid. Trust me, housing would be a nightmare for them in the future.
... And what's wrong with that ? In a lot of countries, a lot of poor ppl have no dream of owning a house ever.
Start simple is ok what. 5y is for u to save real hard and get mature and sophisticated , so u can make the right choice when you are ready.
that is such a wise statement :money-faced1:
Good strategy to keep 1 HDB & 1 CCR condo if you have 1 kid, best keep at least one for each kid. Trust me, housing would be a nightmare for them in the future.
i believe u. Dont forget to buy mortgage insurance ya. If not, u only let them carry on our shit.
If i have a voice in Parliament 1 day,if it happens, i will make first time Singaporean applicants for HDB enjoy a 50k grant with option to offset their 20% downpayment and slap the house with a 8 years MOP. 2 person is 100k ya. Help every young Singaporean start on their first POSITIVE step in life.
... And what's wrong with that ? In a lot of countries, a lot of poor ppl have no dream of owning a house ever.
Start simple is ok what. 5y is for u to save real hard and get mature and sophisticated , so u can make the right choice when you are ready.
Totally agree with you... Why must first timer feel they are losing out if they cant buy condo or resale? Who say they must have such rights? Buy hdb first hand brand new.... I really don't understand all these folks that assume that must buy condo and resales in mature estate and I they can't they complain prices too high.... Unrealistic expectations...
rattydrama
27-03-11, 00:39
Damn ...............
those who have gotten hold of MBT's book ...
is it a small pocket size one ??? in line with the man himself ?
hey you are always so critical and funny.
rattydrama
27-03-11, 00:52
i believe u. Dont forget to buy mortgage insurance ya. If not, u only let them carry on our shit.
If i have a voice in Parliament 1 day,if it happens, i will make first time Singaporean applicants for HDB enjoy a 50k grant with option to offset their 20% downpayment and slap the house with a 8 years MOP. 2 person is 100k ya. Help every young Singaporean start on their first POSITIVE step in life.
this is a good one. Personally I knew they came, bought, later sold with profits and left within 5 years.
i believe u. Dont forget to buy mortgage insurance ya. If not, u only let them carry on our shit.
If i have a voice in Parliament 1 day,if it happens, i will make first time Singaporean applicants for HDB enjoy a 50k grant with option to offset their 20% downpayment and slap the house with a 8 years MOP. 2 person is 100k ya. Help every young Singaporean start on their first POSITIVE step in life.
You fighting for your kids and grandkids ??
Most probably they either squeeze with you in your house or ask you for loans to help them buy the wedding houses.
Another way is for you to downgrade and give them the money to buy house.
No way their salaries can keep pace with housing inflation in 30 years time.
But your great grandkids might be hit as the inheritance get smaller and smaller.
Can we own more than 1 HDB?
Can we flip HDB like no business?
Flat price high got use meh?
Your logic are almost similar to Mr Lim from NTUC. Apparently, every now and then when he read his CPF statement, he feel very rich and the money don't run away.
Dun't believe? watch this :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao-DGAw1Q2o&feature=related
I did not know we receive CPF statements every month, when did it started ??
How come I do not have ??
:doh: :doh: :doh:
... And what's wrong with that ? In a lot of countries, a lot of poor ppl have no dream of owning a house ever.
Start simple is ok what. 5y is for u to save real hard and get mature and sophisticated , so u can make the right choice when you are ready.
Other people in other countries cannot own their own house does not mean it is an excuse for Singapore to have the same.
If other countries crime rate is high, does not mean Singapore is fine with same crime rate right ?
Did not somebody use Uniquely Singapore in their arguments ?
Public housing is the best concept PAP did for Singaporeans, cheers to Lim Kim San.
But his ministers successors somehow turn it upside down and deviated from his objective making it long process and expensive.
I like Lim Hng Khiang's time when HDB appreciate but slower, new flats need only 5-10 years to pay finish and new flats are ready to collect keys weeks after buying a flat.
No BTOs then.
I hope Lim Hng Khiang return as Housing Minister.
Since it's for staying.. then high $$ got use meh?
As a matter of fact, this will push up price further for our children to bear.
If you look at it from the other angle, it's more like a ponzi scheme leh... the bomb will explore some day. Who suffer?
At the end of the day, all of us are rich in paper while someone else really reach in real $$$ and I think you know who.
Wake up.:2cents:
When one generation use up all the opportunities available and leave no opportunities for next generations, the sustainability will collapse.
This is true HK and Japan housing and Singapore will be next.
You fighting for your kids and grandkids ??
Most probably they either squeeze with you in your house or ask you for loans to help them buy the wedding houses.
Another way is for you to downgrade and give them the money to buy house.
No way their salaries can keep pace with housing inflation in 30 years time.
But your great grandkids might be hit as the inheritance get smaller and smaller.
If this next generation is like u hiding behind the computer posting useless article trying to be hero and not to work hard. Then they will not be able to keep pace with housing inflation.
If this next generation is like u hiding behind the computer posting useless article trying to be hero and not to work hard. Then they will not be able to keep pace with housing inflation.
Thanks for the advice but I am no hero , just a forum contributor.
Work hard or work soft, salary increases cannot outpace property price increases.
But if Lim Hng Khiang is Housing Minister again, maybe you will be right.
If you think coming to forums and posting is not working hard then I guess we are both the same.
:scared-4: :scared-4: :scared-4:
Thanks for the advice but I am no hero , just a forum contributor.
Work hard or work soft, salary increases cannot outpace property price increases.
But if Lim Hng Khiang is Housing Minister again, maybe you will be right.
If you think coming to forums and posting is not working hard then I guess we are both the same.
:scared-4: :scared-4: :scared-4:
work for pple tough lah. come out fight own business then got chance to make it big! no risk no return!
devilplate
27-03-11, 09:37
Toking about the past.... I am seeing many of my pri sch mates upgrading from 1rm hdb flats to 4-5rm flats later on with their parents....
Last time vy common to see a family of 5 or more squeezing in a 1-2rm flat.... Now yng couples stay in 4-5rm flat.....
I tink life is getting better isnt it?
The problem is that new hdb flats priced too high.... New f
At prices have gone up many folds since 15 years ago when they intro the 40k grant... Now after 15 years of inflation still 40k.... If the grant follow the rate ofmincrease in brand new hdb flat prices then maybe people will be able to buy more resale... Last time. 5 room in built batok is 300+ k, now is 500 k, so grant should be 70 k....
Secondly, last time hdb new flat prices based on affordibilty, now based on resale price of the area and hdb give 20% discount for new bto flats.... So new buyers who have no money too bad....
That shouldn't be the way, it should be based on the past... If hdb calculate based on 20 years loan instead of 30 to 35 years loans period,then I think no problem....
From a political point of view, I suspect they are trying to hold young people ransom with such long period so you don't leave Singapore and don't go against gahmen.... Lame.... No level playing field...
They have high expectations & hope of living in private properties 3 years after graduating and in their worklife but don't have the high capabilities to achieve that, so cow-pay cow-bull - Die die also don't want to be seen living in a HDB flats, let alone in some places like Sembawang, Boon Lay, or Sengkang! This is all so typical of the younger generation. I heard the same is true for the young generation in China nowsdays for the 20+ years old. Many are expecting are getting their parents to pay for the 20% downpayment for them. In fact, I would say sell them HDB cheap cheap to have a basic roof over their head but make them work hard hard by making the gap so high for private condos so that they will hard enough for themselves and for the goodness of Singapore. Without them working hard, Singapore will not survive in the long run (these softies need incentives to work hard to sustain Singapore for next 50 years)! The "save face" incentive of having a private properties address and being seen living in 1 that are out of reach of most people would be good enough incentives for them! :cheers1:
Totally agree with you... Why must first timer feel they are losing out if they cant buy condo or resale? Who say they must have such rights? Buy hdb first hand brand new.... I really don't understand all these folks that assume that must buy condo and resales in mature estate and I they can't they complain prices too high.... Unrealistic expectations...
Please, work hard but also need to work smart. There are many kind of works, be it employee or self-employed or both or cum self-investments. Work smart but not hard is useless. Money will not drop from the sky. Work hard but not smart is also useless. Instead of complaining outpace property price increases but if you had jumped on the bandwagon, you would be retiring in Orchard or Sentosa and not complaining here. Rather, you will praise this consequences for making you rich without having to work so hard at work and can retire early (regardless of whether this is intented or unintented consequences from Govt policies). I have no complain about property price increases, as is many silent others who have benefited and are strong voters for PAP. in fact, there is nothing wrong with the property price increases as they will just need to catch up with inflation and general increase of income since many people in the top 10% are earning much more more than in 10 years ago! Private properties are for the top 20% earners, not the other 80% in the lower rung, no need to complain. If PAP do it another way and crash the property prices, I believe they will lose the votes of many of the 90% of property owners (who have been silent all these while)! :p
As for HDB flat prices, are the new ones really that obscene? I don't think so. A 4 rm flats in Sengkang or Jurong West is perfectly affordable to a family earning household income of $2.5k per month. It is not that HDB flats are too expensive now, but rather, HDB flats have been too cheap for sooooo long time in the past that it is now time to correct to the norm/mean!
Thanks for the advice but I am no hero , just a forum contributor.
Work hard or work soft, salary increases cannot outpace property price increases.
But if Lim Hng Khiang is Housing Minister again, maybe you will be right.
If you think coming to forums and posting is not working hard then I guess we are both the same.
:scared-4: :scared-4: :scared-4:
MBT GOT MIDAS TOUCH. Where he got PAP sure huat! Last time got ERP, now got DBSS . Last time drivers hate him, now ......
Other than Mr LKY, is he only one publish book? Wonder issit ah kong $$$$ or from his pocket
devilplate
27-03-11, 14:55
new BTO HDB prices definitely goto peg along with the resale HDB prices(20-30% discounted oredi).....
imagine resale 500k....HDB bto only 150k....wow...its like giving FREE $$ of 350k to newly wed couples?? its actually spending future generation $$ on the present generations....however, i cant blame tat la, everyone is greedy mah.....so who cares so much about the future generations?
new BTO got 3,4 and 5rm flat....lower income below 5k now can choose 3rm flat....i tink the affordability is still there....earn lesser, pls dun complain u cannot afford a 4rm flat....u can choose 3rm flat instead....dun forget about the extra AHG which can be quite substantial
furthermore, i feel BTO may benefit the yng couple as well....'booked a queue ticket' first and got another 2-3yrs time to save $$ for renovation etc.....the 2-3yrs of waiting is not tat bad afterall....
we cant say 1st timer cannot afford BTO.....u see tat waterfront punggol project....highest priced BTO in punggol....but it received overwhelming response compared to much cheaper ones during the same period....so i tink ppl r choosy rather den affordability issues
ok toking about last time again(20-30yrs back), most average income earners r commonly seen to stay with in-laws for 3-5yrs b4 getting a flat of their own.....so i dun understand y yng couples complain so much about the 2-3yrs wait....
i hf classmates from china, and they r so happy to get a job within 3 mths after grad.....they told me they r so lucky compared to their fellow peers back in their hometown....
pls dun say y compare ourselves with other countries blah blah....its always gd to noe the situation of our neighbouring countries and do not take things for granted of wat we r currently enjoying now....:cheers6:
going forward, we just hf to make sure tat BTO prices remain affordable to 1st timer
new BTO HDB prices definitely goto peg along with the resale HDB prices(20-30% discounted oredi).....
imagine resale 500k....HDB bto only 150k....wow...its like giving FREE $$ of 350k to newly wed couples?? its actually spending future generation $$ on the present generations....however, i cant blame tat la, everyone is greedy mah.....so who cares so much about the future generations?
new BTO got 3,4 and 5rm flat....lower income below 5k now can choose 3rm flat....i tink the affordability is still there....earn lesser, pls dun complain u cannot afford a 4rm flat....u can choose 3rm flat instead....dun forget about the extra AHG which can be quite substantial
furthermore, i feel BTO may benefit the yng couple as well....'booked a queue ticket' first and got another 2-3yrs time to save $$ for renovation etc.....the 2-3yrs of waiting is not tat bad afterall....
we cant say 1st timer cannot afford BTO.....u see tat waterfront punggol project....highest priced BTO in punggol....but it received overwhelming response compared to much cheaper ones during the same period....so i tink ppl r choosy rather den affordability issues
ok toking about last time again(20-30yrs back), most average income earners r commonly seen to stay with in-laws for 3-5yrs b4 getting a flat of their own.....so i dun understand y yng couples complain so much about the 2-3yrs wait....
i hf classmates from china, and they r so happy to get a job within 3 mths after grad.....they told me they r so lucky compared to their fellow peers back in their hometown....
pls dun say y compare ourselves with other countries blah blah....its always gd to noe the situation of our neighbouring countries and do not take things for granted of wat we r currently enjoying now....:cheers6:
going forward, we just hf to make sure tat BTO prices remain affordable to 1st timer
I must applaud your sentiments about what the older generation weathered so the youngsters these days should not grumble so much and just wait that 3 years for their BTO flats. Also that govt must ensure BTO prices remain affordable. I belong to this school of thought as you too.
However, times have changed. Allow me to elaborate. We often hear children telling their parents to be more IT savvy and keep up with the times. Even older teachers in schools are encouraged to learn to use computers more. I belong to the school of thought which will see me telling my children 'you must study hard and get into a good school and then get good result and will then secure a good paying job so you can be well off in future.' The fact of the matter is the richest people on Earth barely completed their college or have a good university degree.
Having said so much, I must then ask myself am I expecting young couples today to adopt the older generation's mindset? Hmmm... We may not understand why young couples complain so much today but precisely because we don't understand them, we cannot expect them to understand what the older folks went through 20 years earlier. We can tell them and teach them good virtues, etc from our experiences but honestly, they may not learn well through our experiences. They may have very different experiences and that which is needed to succeed in today's world may be so so different from yesterday's. Oh I sound so old....:doh:
In short, you echo what I believe but I am challenged to change my thinking through what I hear and read... :D
Toking about the past.... I am seeing many of my pri sch mates upgrading from 1rm hdb flats to 4-5rm flats later on with their parents....
Last time vy common to see a family of 5 or more squeezing in a 1-2rm flat.... Now yng couples stay in 4-5rm flat.....
I tink life is getting better isnt it?
becoz last time hdb mostly build 1-2-3rms flats?
now most sgporeans not eligible to stay in these smaller flats becoz of income ceiling? n most of these r converted to rental from hdb for needy n elderly?
If we peg hdb bto prices to a 20 years loan and if the monthly payment can be covered by a dual income cpf holders, then I think that should be the limit... To ask a young couple to take 30 years loans is crazy... By the time they finished paying they have no money to retire ma...
If we peg hdb bto prices to a 20 years loan and if the monthly payment can be covered by a dual income cpf holders, then I think that should be the limit... To ask a young couple to take 30 years loans is crazy... By the time they finished paying they have no money to retire ma...
Totally agreed. HDB flats are not meant for couples to spend their life time servicing the mortgage loans. Not practical. Govt always say that Singaporeans should not sell their HDB flat coz it'll appreciate with time. Then may I ask what's the use of price appreciation if don't sell. Absolutely no use!
Anyone knows when HDB publish reports that they suffer losses when they sell flats at low premiums, did they include the huge obscene amount of profit they make through HDB home loans? Imagine for argument sake, assuming about 60% of new HDB sales would result in a home loan from HDB and more than 70% of Singaporeans stay in HDB, they effectively control a huge chunk of the market. The longer the tenure, the more interest they make. Now private housing loans interest rates are really low. Is HDB's rates also that low? Genuine qs... Anyone knows?
Allthepies
28-03-11, 09:06
Totally agreed. HDB flats are not meant for couples to spend their life time servicing the mortgage loans. Not practical. Govt always say that Singaporeans should not sell their HDB flat coz it'll appreciate with time. Then may I ask what's the use of price appreciation if don't sell. Absolutely no use!
do u know that a rising HDB price is actually good for existing owners? a falling HDB price means 85% of Singaporeans will be in negative equity.....
a rising HDB price is the only way for those not so resourceful Singaporeans to move up the social ladder to upgrade to bigger housing or private housing...
which government provides such a nice opportunity for 85% of its citizens? :D
so first timers please stop complaining and quickly get a first flat to enjoy the free ride :D
This whole thread reminds me of what MBT said during the ST interview, to paraphrase him:
Home buyers often complain that the government does too little to curb prices, but when they become home owner, they complain the government does too much to curb prices......:D
Totally agreed. HDB flats are not meant for couples to spend their life time servicing the mortgage loans. Not practical. Govt always say that Singaporeans should not sell their HDB flat coz it'll appreciate with time. Then may I ask what's the use of price appreciation if don't sell. Absolutely no use!
Anyone knows when HDB publish reports that they suffer losses when they sell flats at low premiums, did they include the huge obscene amount of profit they make through HDB home loans? Imagine for argument sake, assuming about 60% of new HDB sales would result in a home loan from HDB and more than 70% of Singaporeans stay in HDB, they effectively control a huge chunk of the market. The longer the tenure, the more interest they make. Now private housing loans interest rates are really low. Is HDB's rates also that low? Genuine qs... Anyone knows?
I think there was another thread where forummers advise people not to switch to private. HDB presumed purposely hold the rates high so that people switch to private which offer a better rate.
Why?
Supposedly HDB cannot repossess ur flat but private banks can.
new BTO HDB prices definitely goto peg along with the resale HDB prices(20-30% discounted oredi).....
i hf classmates from china, and they r so happy to get a job within 3 mths after grad.....they told me they r so lucky compared to their fellow peers back in their hometown....
Huh, u are still studying part time property agent course or what course?:D
i thought u are old man but I guess you are younger than I thought..:D
devilplate
28-03-11, 10:46
Huh, u are still studying part time property agent course or what course?:D
i thought u are old man but I guess you are younger than I thought..:D
dude....every1 can be any1
studying social degree now:D
do u know that a rising HDB price is actually good for existing owners? a falling HDB price means 85% of Singaporeans will be in negative equity.....
a rising HDB price is the only way for those not so resourceful Singaporeans to move up the social ladder to upgrade to bigger housing or private housing...
which government provides such a nice opportunity for 85% of its citizens? :D
so first timers please stop complaining and quickly get a first flat to enjoy the free ride :D
Rising HDB price is good only if the buyers are first time buyers when they enjoy subsidy for the flat, whether new or resale. However, looking at the market, they are only moving up the social ladder on paper (but isn't the rest of society so when u go up, the others too so are u really going up???).
In reality, if they eventually sell their HDB flats, private housing might be too far for them to reach anyway coz HDB prices are always lagging behind private houses. Say they bought a HDB for 400k today and take a loan of 300k. After 5 years, they pay up maybe 100K (for a typical singaporean couple who takes only 15 year loan), then sell flat for say 700k (very good deal), they will have about 500k (not including agent fee, etc) plus whatever sayings they make over their MOP so average add up to 600k (very conservative) to buy their first private home. Typical private home at 1m (very conservative), mean they need to loan 450k (pay 550k plus 25k stamp duty plus 25k reno) (meaning they use every available cent). By then they are actually taking up higher loan than their original 300k from their first HDB flat but with greater responsibility to feed family (maybe children came along). These typical couples will spend the next 25 years servicing their new home loan mortgage. They cannot get out of this vicious cycle. Pay and Pay (first to HDB then to banks)! We are Singapreans!!!:D
In short, HDB flats is a good initiative from govt for a typical unresourceful citizen if these singaporeans stay in their flats till they are old. No burden from rising properties cost. Property price hikes are always ahead of a typical employee's annual salary rise, not to mention inflation which is more critical to an average singaporean. It is the more resourceful (as you mentioned) singaporeans who look into other forms of investments and save like crazy to invest in properties that can stay afloat.:scared-2:
devilplate
28-03-11, 11:04
its a no brainer lah...positive equity is definitely better den negative equity wat....
with negative equity, u may even nid to top up any losses incurred if u nid to sell:scared-1:
tats y now got lease buyback for poor older folks....alternatively, provide studio HDB BTOs for retirees to downgrade and cash out their positive asset
This whole thread reminds me of what MBT said during the ST interview, to paraphrase him:
Home buyers often complain that the government does too little to curb prices, but when they become home owner, they complain the government does too much to curb prices......:D
I am not advocating hdb crash the market... Price bto at 150k for four room flat and 250k for five room flats... At these prices it's already quite high for young couples... my mum bought her five room flat from hdb at bukit batik 12 years ago at 145k... Lok at how much a sengkang five room costs... 368k... Man... Did the income of a young couple rise 150% over the last 12 years...
The problem lies with our gahmen... They want to milk all the money.... They have scholars caculating all the various permutation and then reach a level whereby the young couples barely make the monthly installment but stretch for 30 years then say its affordable...
In this way the gahmen can maximize the profit... The problem with Singapore is that the country is extremely rich, the ministers and super scale civil servant extremely rich, the president get more than four million a year for shaking hands and cutting ribbons.... But the people have no chance eto make money...
Hdb no upside, private property market get cooling measures, all businesses get dominated by MNCs, GLC,NTUC, EDB.... While our salaries get press down by foreign migrants... We are like mice asking to run faster and faster on wheels until we die!!!
How come we need competition as workers, but gahmen no need competition? They can clAim they are the best no need competition, while we are slaves....
By reducing the bto prices... It will also tone down the increase in resale flat as the opportunity cost becomes higher if young couple wants to stay in mature estate and have their flats instantly.... Hence the prices of hdb will have sustainable price rises...
Allthepies
28-03-11, 12:23
I am not advocating hdb crash the market... Price bto at 150k for four room flat and 250k for five room flats... At these prices it's already quite high for young couples... my mum bought her five room flat from hdb at bukit batik 12 years ago at 145k... Lok at how much a sengkang five room costs... 368k... Man... Did the income of a young couple rise 150% over the last 12 years...
Is it reasonable to cap BTO prices? :D
devilplate
28-03-11, 13:35
Is it reasonable to cap BTO prices? :D
it will be a disaster!! surest way to lose votes(gain minority 10% home seekers but lose 60-70% homeowners...haha)
i tink wat govt can help is probably to increase the subsidies for the AHG to balance the rising prices of BTO....if u earn more, take lesser subsidise....earn less....get more subsidise....fair enuff?:2cents:
devilplate
28-03-11, 13:36
By reducing the bto prices... It will also tone down the increase in resale flat as the opportunity cost becomes higher if young couple wants to stay in mature estate and have their flats instantly.... Hence the prices of hdb will have sustainable price rises...
only reduce bto px if resale HDB px drop ....cannot anyhow la....
one way as i mentioned, increase the AHG grant subsidy:2cents:
its a no brainer lah...positive equity is definitely better den negative equity wat....
with negative equity, u may even nid to top up any losses incurred if u nid to sell:scared-1:
tats y now got lease buyback for poor older folks....alternatively, provide studio HDB BTOs for retirees to downgrade and cash out their positive asset
So u guess WQ falls into which category? Home buyer or owner? The politic thread shift to coffee shop talk liao. Very interesting he only appear in poitics thread. Must have missed the boat big time.
devilplate
28-03-11, 18:16
So u guess WQ falls into which category? Home buyer or owner? The politic thread shift to coffee shop talk liao. Very interesting he only appear in poitics thread. Must have missed the boat big time.
i better dun say anything...later he accuse me of making assumptions about him again:scared-3:
rattydrama
29-03-11, 22:22
dude....every1 can be any1
studying social degree now:D
Lee khan Yew school of public policy? :p
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