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Regulators
10-03-11, 11:58
Look at the annual pay of top ministers in the US compared to us. Fed chief Bernanke who can make or break world economy with his decision is only drawing an annual salary of $199k and Hilary Clinton only drawing $186k. Many of our MPs (apart from those holding significant portfolios) whom hardly anybody outside Singapore even knows are drawing three to tenfold that amount for doing meet-the -peoples session, simple day to day constituency work, and proposing upgrading works in parliament. Our president is paid $3.2 mil for doing..... Sorry, I don't even know what apart from waving at us on National Day :doh: :doh: :doh:


NEW YORK (24/7 Wall Street) — Working for the government is often referred to as public service. The term implies sacrifice or taking less than what could be earned in the private sector or in an entrepreneurial position. Many government workers seem overpaid but are probably underpaid when you consider the scope of their responsibilities. Indeed, many in the private sector would not want to stand up to the scrutiny required of a top public-service job or to get elected to public office.


Reuters

U.S. President Barack Obama speaks to the media at the White House in February.
The salary of the president of the United States is actually a token sum considering the responsibilities of the office. Still, officials in other public service jobs seem egregiously overpaid. People who hold these jobs are “set for life” after their public service ends because they are in demand for paid speaking gigs, memoirs and consulting roles in private industry.

24/7 Wall Street has gathered data from many public sources to ferret out how much these top government officials earn. Salaries of some jobs are shielded from public scrutiny for national-security reasons. This analysis did not consider health-care and retirement packages, security and transportation benefits and additional factor. In some cases, our public-service executives have actually taken considerable pay cuts to serve.

One thing also needs to be considered here: Some government salaries are actually shielded under executive order. Some of the shielded pay grades may be well into the hundreds of thousands or even higher. Some information, intelligence, and cloak-and-dagger positions are shielded and above our pay grade when it comes to identifying how much they are.

10. Secretary of state: Hillary Clinton

• Annual base salary: $186,600

• Maximum job length: Generally 8 years

• Previous job: Senator from New York

Job description: The secretary of state is appointed by the president to serve as chief diplomatic representative of the U.S. Besides overseeing all State Department operations, including the operations of the U.S. embassies and representation in the United Nations, Secretary of State Clinton is responsible for the foreign operations of the CIA, the Defense Department, and the Department of Homeland Security. Clinton is also fourth in the chain of succession for the presidency.

9. Secretary of Treasury Timothy Geithner

• Annual base salary: $191,300

• Maximum job length: Generally 8 years

• Previous job: President of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York

Job description: Appointed by the president, the secretary of the Treasury serves as the principal economic adviser for the president. According to the Department of the Treasury: “The Secretary is responsible for formulating and recommending domestic and international financial, economic, and tax policy, participating in the formulation of broad fiscal policies that have general significance for the economy, and managing the public debt.” Geithner here is a proxy for many other Cabinet members, who make the same amount, including Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano.

8. Senate majority leader: Harry Reid

• Annual base salary: $193,400

• Maximum job length: Indefinite, usually 4-8 years, or until Senate changes hands

• Previous job: Governor of Nevada

Job description: The Senate majority leader did not exist until the beginning of the 20th century. According to the U.S. Senate website: “The leader must keep himself briefed and informed on national and international problems in addition to pending legislative matters. On the floor of the senate he is charged by his party members to deal with all procedural questions in consultation with them and his party’s policy-making bodies.” Additionally, Reid must be in contact with all of the various committees and maintain a line of communication between them and the senate. This position stands as a proxy here for the minority and majority leaders in both the Senate and House, who all make the same amount.

7. Chairman of the Federal Reserve: Benjamin Bernanke

• Annual base salary: $199,700

• Maximum job length: 14-28 years

• Previous job: Professor of economics at Princeton University

Job Description: The chairman of the Federal Reserve is in charge of the banking system of the U.S. As head of the Fed, Bernanke dictates and explains the direction of U.S. fiscal policy and works with the Department of the Treasury.

6. Chief justice of United States: John G. Roberts

devilplate
10-03-11, 12:08
i tink many dun mind to be ben/obama even if their pay is $1

btw, any difference with regards to BASE salary? r there any other perks?

Regulators
10-03-11, 12:16
so you mean to say it is all right for an american president to work for free and our president has to be paid $3.2 mil a year? You put Obama and Nathan side by side on the world stage and compare salary to responsibility, on the ratio of responsibility to pay, obama scored a ratio of 10000 : 1, as for Nathan, he scored 1 : 10000. :doh:


i tink many dun mind to be ben/obama even if their pay is $1

btw, any difference with regards to BASE salary? r there any other perks?

devilplate
10-03-11, 12:21
so you mean to say it is all right for an american president to work for free and our president has to be paid $3.2 mil a year? You put Obama and Nathan side by side on the world stage and compare salary to responsibility, on the ratio of responsibility to pay, obama scored a ratio of 10000 : 1, as for Nathan, he scored 1 : 10000. :doh:

dunwan to compare la...

jus pointed out tat ppl r gg for POWER instead of $$....as they noe POWER will leads to $$$ later:D

hopeful
10-03-11, 12:21
i tink many dun mind to be ben/obama even if their pay is $1

btw, any difference with regards to BASE salary? r there any other perks?

Perks:
You can ask for haircut in airforce one. All other flights will be delayed while you have haircut. :banghead:

hopeful
10-03-11, 12:24
so you mean to say it is all right for an american president to work for free and our president has to be paid $3.2 mil a year? You put Obama and Nathan side by side on the world stage and compare salary to responsibility, on the ratio of responsibility to pay, obama scored a ratio of 10000 : 1, as for Nathan, he scored 1 : 10000. :doh:

Singapore President has important function you know.
He safeguard the Singapore reserves. Imagine your CPF statement shows $1million, but when you want to withdraw all, no money in CPF because government anyhow use the money.

And also during presidential election, can have public holiday :D.


By the way, Wenqing is coming soon.....

ay123
10-03-11, 12:50
dunwan to compare la...

jus pointed out tat ppl r gg for POWER instead of $$....as they noe POWER will leads to $$$ later:D
true...look at bill clinton. after collecting < 200k annually for 2 term. now he jus need to tour around and.......10 over million in his pocket lor. also he has the power to get extra service :D :D who dare to reject him!!!

westman
10-03-11, 13:20
Just curious...

Will MP get additional income beside MP allowance
1) he is a minister?
2) if he hold more than one minister posts
3) any agency boss (PA, URA, MAS, NTUC etc)

Just curious:rolleyes:

ay123
10-03-11, 14:20
maybe our ministers have "meet-the-people" session mah. Obama didnt meet the people.....so our minister are paid millions lor :D :D :D

Regulators
10-03-11, 18:19
We are talking about pay during office, not after office. If nathan got substance, people will still pay to hear him talk, just like people paying thousands to hear anthony robbins who is not even a graduate. Honestly with the kind of work that our prudent does, ask him to tour around the globe and see who wants to hear him talk :doh:
true...look at bill clinton. after collecting < 200k annually for 2 term. now he jus need to tour around and.......10 over million in his pocket lor. also he has the power to get extra service :D :D who dare to reject him!!!

Regulators
10-03-11, 18:22
Are you a singaporean? Presidnts don't go for meet the people sessions and by the way, mps in US also meet their people regularly
maybe our ministers have "meet-the-people" session mah. Obama didnt meet the people.....so our minister are paid millions lor :D :D :D

Regulators
10-03-11, 18:34
Everything in parliament can override what the presidnt says. Have you forgotten what happened when ong teng cheong tried to probe into the government accounts? Everyone knows the president in singapore serves mainly a ceremonial function, even if he wants to change a law in singapore, he has no power.
Singapore President has important function you know.
He safeguard the Singapore reserves. Imagine your CPF statement shows $1million, but when you want to withdraw all, no money in CPF because government anyhow use the money.

And also during presidential election, can have public holiday :D.


By the way, Wenqing is coming soon.....

Regulators
10-03-11, 19:03
Most of the highly paid mps in singapore hold part time positions and they have other day jobs. Some are also directors of multiple companies despite their fat mp allowances
Just curious...

Will MP get additional income beside MP allowance
1) he is a minister?
2) if he hold more than one minister posts
3) any agency boss (PA, URA, MAS, NTUC etc)

Just curious:rolleyes:

DaytonaSS
10-03-11, 19:30
so you mean to say it is all right for an american president to work for free and our president has to be paid $3.2 mil a year? You put Obama and Nathan side by side on the world stage and compare salary to responsibility, on the ratio of responsibility to pay, obama scored a ratio of 10000 : 1, as for Nathan, he scored 1 : 10000. :doh:
really u so naive , believe their pay is only $200k a year? come on, u make more than president of united states lor.

i m sure u are old enough to know see thing dont look at the surface..... he maybe sitting on 1k board drawing 10k each for all u know.

I quiet confident to say is really a united states of America president only make 200k annual, no need too far , i take some small time banker can trash him liao........

maybe i m wrg, but i believe pple want to be paid in according to the responsibility assumed.

Regulators
10-03-11, 19:43
If obama can make money outside, nathan can also make money outside. We are talking about publicly declared allowances or pay given to them out of taxpayers
really u so naive , believe their pay is only $200k a year? come on, u make more than president of united states lor.

i m sure u are old enough to know see thing dont look at the surface..... he maybe sitting on 1k board drawing 10k each for all u know.

I quiet confident to say is really a united states of America president only make 200k annual, no need too far , i take some small time banker can trash him liao........

maybe i m wrg, but i believe pple want to be paid in according to the responsibility assumed.

Allthepies
10-03-11, 20:06
Aiyo can we stop arguing on Politics in this forum, there r better forums to do that.... :doh: u can argue until the cow comes home and there wont be any satisfactory answers to suit everyone....:sleep:

Localite
10-03-11, 20:14
Is the ppty market going up or down?

focus
10-03-11, 20:40
I think the meaning of public service and public servant have become twisted when you have a country's public servants drawing much much more than other countries' whose responsibilities are far heavier and subject to more scrutiny by the public and press.

I say to them.. "You guys have no sense of proportion!".

extremme
10-03-11, 21:16
By the way, Wenqing is coming soon..... haha where is he? Dis is one of his fav topics

Regulators
10-03-11, 22:06
They said that minister's salaries need to be high to avoid corruption, it is like saying instead of being corrupt, i just take from the people openly. If a minister in Singapore has the audacity to collect 10 times the pay of Obama, I think he/she should be 10 times as good as Obama. I do not think any minister in Singapore can even fill half his shoes, not to mention two. :doh: :doh:


I think the meaning of public service and public servant have become twisted when you have a country's public servants drawing much much more than other countries' whose responsibilities are far heavier and subject to more scrutiny by the public and press.

I say to them.. "You guys have no sense of proportion!".

focus
10-03-11, 22:52
They said that minister's salaries need to be high to avoid corruption, it is like saying instead of being corrupt, i just take from the people openly. If a minister in Singapore has the audacity to collect 10 times the pay of Obama, I think he/she should be 10 times as good as Obama. I do not think any minister in Singapore can even fill half his shoes, not to mention two. :doh: :doh:

Too bad ... :) After all that is said and done, I believe majority will still vote for PAP. We all have short term memory.

In case anyone doubts my loyalty.... I love PAP! :) PAP! PAP! :)

Regulators
10-03-11, 22:57
Maybe i will vote for PAP after I become mentally retarded or senile when i grow old


Too bad ... :) After all that is said and done, I believe majority will still vote for PAP. We all have short term memory.

In case anyone doubts my loyalty.... I love PAP! :) PAP! PAP! :)

focus
10-03-11, 23:19
Maybe i will vote for PAP after I become mentally retarded or senile when i grow old

Hehehe.. ;) To each his own. Online forum must always show support for my beloved govt. I am chicken sh*t.. :p It's so exciting to have elections.. I will go attend rallies to listen and enjoy the atmosphere..

focus
10-03-11, 23:41
Oh... Our President just got a nice increment.
From $3.3mil to 4.2mil ..

If anyone don't know what is a golden handshake, this is it! :)

Regulators
11-03-11, 00:18
As far as I am concerned, a president is redundant in our country. 4.2 million could be much better used in cancer research, buy more dialysis machines for kidney patients and a whole lot more than to pay someone to go around shaking hands and act as just a figurehead. I think many would agree with me on this.
Oh... Our President just got a nice increment.
From $3.3mil to 4.2mil ..

If anyone don't know what is a golden handshake, this is it! :)

peterng8
11-03-11, 08:15
true...look at bill clinton. after collecting < 200k annually for 2 term. now he jus need to tour around and.......10 over million in his pocket lor. also he has the power to get extra service :D :D who dare to reject him!!!

no every former US president like clinton...he is famour because of his scandal...

peterng8
11-03-11, 08:17
Singapore President has important function you know.
He safeguard the Singapore reserves. Imagine your CPF statement shows $1million, but when you want to withdraw all, no money in CPF because government anyhow use the money.

And also during presidential election, can have public holiday :D.


By the way, Wenqing is coming soon.....


ha ha...are u joking?

peterng8
11-03-11, 08:19
Hehehe.. ;) To each his own. Online forum must always show support for my beloved govt. I am chicken sh*t.. :p It's so exciting to have elections.. I will go attend rallies to listen and enjoy the atmosphere..


u first time voter? PAP loves people like u...:D bottom got no ball or ball in mounth:D

peterng8
11-03-11, 08:21
As far as I am concerned, a president is redundant in our country. 4.2 million could be much better used in cancer research, buy more dialysis machines for kidney patients and a whole lot more than to pay someone to go around shaking hands and act as just a figurehead. I think many would agree with me on this.


to think that most singaporeans are fighting everyday with Foreign talents for job opportuity and third world pay, furhtermore inflation is getting higher, this is anothe bombshell...GST may be going up soon..pay inrease always start at the top...:D

ay123
11-03-11, 08:54
very difficult to make comparison. each country has their own management. spore minister higher pay than US, how abt also comparing US to china....i think i earn more than china PM/president :cheers1: . is china not as powerful as US?

devilplate
11-03-11, 08:59
very difficult to make comparison. each country has their own management. spore minister higher pay than US, how abt also comparing US to china....i think i earn more than china PM/president :cheers1: . is china not as powerful as US?

but i tink SG minister pay is abit too overwhelming....afterall its from taxpayers....its actually a HOT topic and overheard many times ppl complaining abt this lor....

or isit, SG a small and powerless country tats y nid to dangle big carrot to retain/attract talents to join? if our top ministers pay only 200k, cannot find any talent to fill the position?

hopeful
11-03-11, 09:03
u first time voter? PAP loves people like u...:D bottom got no ball or ball in mounth:D

focus is right. very right. you don't your internet devices have unique id?

By the way, I support the PAP government. My investments in Singapore you know :ashamed1:

You never notice how Chee Soon Juan, before he joined, everything was fine. When he joined opposition, taxi fare also become problem. :doh:Send wife's documents overseas also become problem. :doh:
Yup, can call me a coward or no balls, if you like. I dont mind. My ego is not big. Money in pocket more important. :cheers1:

devilplate
11-03-11, 09:06
focus is right. very right. you don't your internet devices have unique id?

By the way, I support the PAP government. My investments in Singapore you know :ashamed1:

You never notice how Chee Soon Juan, before he joined, everything was fine. When he joined opposition, taxi fare also become problem. :doh:Send wife's documents overseas also become problem. :doh:
Yup, can call me a coward or no balls, if you like. I dont mind. My ego is not big. Money in pocket more important. :cheers1:

his ROD and BALLS bigger den any of us mah:D

hopeful
11-03-11, 09:10
compare to neighouring countries.
imagine Indonesia's Gayus, a mid ranking tax official can have us$3mil. and suspected to have another us$8 mil in safety deposit boxes.
Just a bloody middle rank tax official, can have so much money.:doh:
his official salary is less than s$1000/month.

so you can imagine higher rank tax officials' wealth.:scared-5:

Suharto's children very rich. Dr M's children also very rich.

ay123
11-03-11, 09:20
but i tink SG minister pay is abit too overwhelming....afterall its from taxpayers....its actually a HOT topic and overheard many times ppl complaining abt this lor....

or isit, SG a small and powerless country tats y nid to dangle big carrot to retain/attract talents to join? if our top ministers pay only 200k, cannot find any talent to fill the position?

ministers' pay has always a topic for opposition. but u think a minister's calibre can join any mnc drawing same or more salary. in fact some are being lure over from mnc. in such time lets not talk abt sacrifice for the people, we are not born in 3 kingdom time where everywhere is chaos and need ppl to really sacrifice to fight for people. so paying minister in accordance to mkt rate is fair (if i have the calibre to be minister, i also want high pay). but i remember our new law minister gave up his multi millions income to become law minister right?

Wild Falcon
11-03-11, 09:27
Nope. Most are not good calibre enought join MNCs/banks as CEO with $2 - $3 million salaries - that I am very sure. Many Ministers can't even speak proper English or have any charisma. Sometimes u wonder how they get there? That's the problem when they don't dare to have a proper debate with the opposition - its like a shoo-in - and once u see them debating, then you can tell whether they got substance. Even budget speeches are all prepared and they just read from textbook with poor pronunciation. In fact there are ministers who have left and their salaries only $300k. A CEO need to have charisma and vision and very few of these guys who can't even speak with conviction is anywhere near there.


ministers' pay has always a topic for opposition. but u think a minister's calibre can join any mnc drawing same or more salary. in fact some are being lure over from mnc. in such time lets not talk abt sacrifice for the people, we are not born in 3 kingdom time where everywhere is chaos and need ppl to really sacrifice to fight for people. so paying minister in accordance to mkt rate is fair (if i have the calibre to be minister, i also want high pay). but i remember our new law minister gave up his multi millions income to become law minister right?

Wild Falcon
11-03-11, 09:44
Therein lies the problem if you only read the mainstream media. Perhaps you should ask yourself, why are you comparing against the worst? There are hundreds of countries who are run way better, people have much higher happiness index and yet their politicians are not paid $4 million a year. Why of all the countries in the world, you have to compare with Indonesia? Because Straits Times say so?


compare to neighouring countries.
imagine Indonesia's Gayus, a mid ranking tax official can have us$3mil. and suspected to have another us$8 mil in safety deposit boxes.
Just a bloody middle rank tax official, can have so much money.:doh:
his official salary is less than s$1000/month.

so you can imagine higher rank tax officials' wealth.:scared-5:

Suharto's children very rich. Dr M's children also very rich.

mogyi
11-03-11, 09:50
Most of the highly paid mps in singapore hold part time positions and they have other day jobs. Some are also directors of multiple companies despite their fat mp allowances

Actually from what i know, there's only one opposition MP in hougang who is a full time MP that only draws a allowance. The rest of the MPs hold 2-3 portfolia including full time job while drawing MP allowance. Talk about commitment..... sigh.......:tsk-tsk:

hopeful
11-03-11, 09:54
Therein lies the problem if you only read the mainstream media. Perhaps you should ask yourself, why are you comparing against the worst? There are hundreds of countries who are run way better, people have much higher happiness index and yet their politicians are not paid $4 million a year. Why of all the countries in the world, you have to compare with Indonesia? Because Straits Times say so?

That's because I am from that country :)
Singapore is surrounded by these countries and not anywhere surrounded by USA or EU. So of course, have to look at neighbours nearby and not some dreamland far away.

devilplate
11-03-11, 10:01
That's because I am from that country :)
Singapore is surrounded by these countries and not anywhere surrounded by USA or EU. So of course, have to look at neighbours nearby and not some dreamland far away.

make sense...

tats y rich indos/msians r putting their $$ into SG and not the other way round:D

hopeful
11-03-11, 10:11
Therein lies the problem if you only read the mainstream media. Perhaps you should ask yourself, why are you comparing against the worst? There are hundreds of countries who are run way better, people have much higher happiness index and yet their politicians are not paid $4 million a year. Why of all the countries in the world, you have to compare with Indonesia? Because Straits Times say so?

When people compare wealth, they often compared with neighbors, relatives correct,
When I compare my wealth, I compare to my relatives, and neighbours. I am richer, I am happier. I am poorer compared to them, I am sad. Yes I am that shallow a person.
But in no situation, do I compare my wealth to that of Suharto's children, the family conglomerates. You can say it is a failure on my part to dream.

So likewise. you compare to the neighbours around you. If my neighbour politicians earn millions illegally, why cant I earn millions legally, after all the effort I built to make Singapore a success.

devilplate
11-03-11, 10:25
at least hopeful is honest about himself....hehe

every man for himself la.....whr got saint....ops:spliff:

if not like sm1 who tok like so real over here regarding politics....in the end he say he will only contribute to a VOTE....:doh:

august
11-03-11, 10:33
at least hopeful is honest about himself....hehe

every man for himself la.....whr got saint....ops:spliff:

if not like sm1 who tok like so real over here regarding politics....in the end he say he will only contribute to a VOTE....:doh:
then wat? u want to give him 2 votes? lol

u like to cast aspersions on others but where is your own stand and conviction, if any? :confused:

one can be brutally honest and frank of being a coward, that doesnt make him a more noble coward, is still a coward and thats nothing to be proud of.

hopeful
11-03-11, 10:49
then wat? u want to give him 2 votes? lol

u like to cast aspersions on others but where is your own stand and conviction, if any? :confused:

one can be brutally honest and frank of being a coward, that doesnt make him a more noble coward, is still a coward and thats nothing to be proud of.

why should everybody should have their own stand and conviction?
isn't it easier to just let things be and follow the crowd, rather than rock the boat?
a proverb comes to mind: "the nail that sticks out get hammered".
as said earlier, my conviction is money in pocket more important.
afterall, usually all the troublemakers are those without money.
"When you have nothing, you have nothing to lose" comes to mind. I have everything to lose by rocking the status quo.

devilplate
11-03-11, 10:57
then wat? u want to give him 2 votes? lol

u like to cast aspersions on others but where is your own stand and conviction, if any? :confused:

one can be brutally honest and frank of being a coward, that doesnt make him a more noble coward, is still a coward and thats nothing to be proud of.

well, at least the coward is truthful to himself....and not living in a state of self denial....

i am jus a small fry and really nth to shout about....so who really cares about my own stand? i am just here to discuss about ppty yay...:D :cheers6:
occasionally, kapo abit here and there lah...tcss kill some time mah...ops:ashamed1:

dingding
11-03-11, 11:27
http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/EDC110311-0000251/Parliament-approves-increase-in-Presidents-salary,-expenditure

august
11-03-11, 11:45
well, at least the coward is truthful to himself....and not living in a state of self denial....

i am jus a small fry and really nth to shout about....so who really cares about my own stand? i am just here to discuss about ppty yay...:D :cheers6:
occasionally, kapo abit here and there lah...tcss kill some time mah...ops:ashamed1:
point is if u know u are a coward, so be it. u know yourself can already. no one is perfect.

but such a coward should not casts aspersion on others who have the conviction and courage to make a change. Worse, the coward even tries to bring others down to his low level. this reflects a very flawed and the worst character there can be.

devilplate
11-03-11, 11:48
point is if u know u are a coward, so be it. u know yourself can already. no one is perfect.

but such a coward should not casts aspersion on others who have the conviction and courage to make a change. Worse, the coward even tries to bring others down to his low level. this reflects a very flawed and the worst character there can be.

oh well, my point is: those self proclaimed 'conviction/courageous' maybe living in the state of self denial....

u dun understand meh? i said : tok like real but only contribute to a vote.....tok tok tok....i aso can tok big big....

conviction and courage to make a change by casting a VOTE ONLY??? ok lor....tat courage and conviction really TAT BIG wor:p

august
11-03-11, 12:16
oh well, my point is: those self proclaimed 'conviction/courageous' maybe living in the state of self denial....

u dun understand meh? i said : tok like real but only contribute to a vote.....tok tok tok....i aso can tok big big....

conviction and courage to make a change by casting a VOTE ONLY??? ok lor....tat courage and conviction really TAT BIG wor:p

i think the more u try to justify the more u prove my point. :)

Teana
11-03-11, 12:19
http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/EDC110311-0000251/Parliament-approves-increase-in-Presidents-salary,-expenditure
President's pay increased from $3.3M to $4.2M only.

I wonder if the current President can benefit from this increment.

devilplate
11-03-11, 12:23
i think the more u try to justify the more u prove my point. :)

yaya...twisting words/playing with words...nvm la...i refering to wenqing anyway...not u wor...y u become defensive?:confused: :beats-me-man:

devilplate
11-03-11, 12:29
actually instead of complaining abt PAP, minister's pay etc....wat r the things u guys tink govt can do on their part and we as a citizenship can do to make SG a more livable successful country and attain duno wat higher happiness index?;)

Regulators
11-03-11, 12:29
the law minister still runs his law firm earning millions. If the people in the nee soon ward comes to know of his huge house in 7 astrid hill and where their tax dollars are going, he will lose his ward
ministers' pay has always a topic for opposition. but u think a minister's calibre can join any mnc drawing same or more salary. in fact some are being lure over from mnc. in such time lets not talk abt sacrifice for the people, we are not born in 3 kingdom time where everywhere is chaos and need ppl to really sacrifice to fight for people. so paying minister in accordance to mkt rate is fair (if i have the calibre to be minister, i also want high pay). but i remember our new law minister gave up his multi millions income to become law minister right?

devilplate
11-03-11, 12:30
the law minister still runs his law firm earning millions. If the people in the nee soon ward comes to know of his huge house in 7 astrid hill and where their tax dollars are going, he will lose his ward

instead of complaining....y not share some goodie insights and suggestions? some say this forum got hidden dragon/tiger wor:D

eng81157
11-03-11, 12:34
me no coward, me openly declare my vote goes to opposition (if they decide to contest in pasir ris-punggol grc)

devilplate
11-03-11, 12:36
me no coward, me openly declare my vote goes to opposition (if they decide to contest in pasir ris-punggol grc)

clapX2! at least u r better off den the wenqing tat says his vote is SECRET....and tell me dun asume tat he will vote for opposition:doh:

btw, whos ur potential opposition in ur area....wat makes u vote for them:D

eng81157
11-03-11, 12:46
clapX2! at least u r better off den the wenqing tat says his vote is SECRET....and tell me dun asume tat he will vote for opposition:doh:

btw, whos ur potential opposition in ur area....wat makes u vote for them:D

according to newspaper reports, it could be SDA.

as for me, any opposition goes as i won't wanna vote in a PAP govt that decides to give a bloody, freaking 27% pay raise for a figurehead president, with our MCYS minister resisting calls to raise the daily allowance to the poor and needy by $1 or $10 (i may be wrong with the exact details)

Regulators
11-03-11, 12:51
i agree fully. if other shallow forumers here want to support that 27% pay rise, they can go ahead, definitely not me. if they think that figurehead not earning enough, they can even pool 50% of their measly income every month and donate more to the president. :doh:


according to newspaper reports, it could be SDA.

as for me, any opposition goes as i won't wanna vote in a PAP govt that decides to give a bloody, freaking 27% pay raise for a figurehead president, with our MCYS minister resisting calls to raise the daily allowance to the poor and needy by $1 or $10 (i may be wrong with the exact details)

Regulators
11-03-11, 12:54
You already said you are a shallow person :D


When people compare wealth, they often compared with neighbors, relatives correct,
When I compare my wealth, I compare to my relatives, and neighbours. I am richer, I am happier. I am poorer compared to them, I am sad. Yes I am that shallow a person.
But in no situation, do I compare my wealth to that of Suharto's children, the family conglomerates. You can say it is a failure on my part to dream.

So likewise. you compare to the neighbours around you. If my neighbour politicians earn millions illegally, why cant I earn millions legally, after all the effort I built to make Singapore a success.

devilplate
11-03-11, 12:57
according to newspaper reports, it could be SDA.

as for me, any opposition goes as i won't wanna vote in a PAP govt that decides to give a bloody, freaking 27% pay raise for a figurehead president, with our MCYS minister resisting calls to raise the daily allowance to the poor and needy by $1 or $10 (i may be wrong with the exact details)

icic....but isnt it kind of scary to vote for opposition without considering their merits and their proposal and substance? a country governance got alot more to do den just minister/president pay rite?

i am waiting to hear wat the opposition/PAP goto propose b4 i cast my one and only vote:D :spliff:

devilplate
11-03-11, 13:01
i agree fully. if other shallow forumers here want to support that 27% pay rise, they can go ahead, definitely not me. if they think that figurehead not earning enough, they can even pool 50% of their measly income every month and donate more to the president. :doh:

but at least nid to noe whether the opposition got the 'substance' anot rite? mabe pian jiat only leh? ride on the bad sentiment about minster pay etc.....

ay123
11-03-11, 13:13
u don cast vote for opposition juz becos of the pay rise of president right :doh: i agree the rise is way too much but this is only one of the items for governing and run a country. if opposition can come up with better idea/solution to solve issue like inflation, high cost etc definitely opposition can earn their vote. if they are only there to question why why why w/o any constructive solution.....any ppl in the street can do tat. if there is a real problem when the whole team of ministers cannot resolve, what make u think a small team of opposition can do a better job

eng81157
11-03-11, 13:17
icic....but isnt it kind of scary to vote for opposition without considering their merits and their proposal and substance? a country governance got alot more to do den just minister/president pay rite?

i am waiting to hear wat the opposition/PAP goto propose b4 i cast my one and only vote:D :spliff:

i need someone with a level head to scream at obscence pay raises. if the ruling Govt can pass such a motion through without any objections from a single PAP minister/backbencher/candidate, etc, it just goes to show how great a deal their 'merits and substance' are, or therelackof.

a 27% pay raise without any robust debate to me is NO governance. the president needs the extra million to......???? buy more properties?? buy more cars?? buy more watches, luxury goods????

do i see any more orphanages being built? do i see the poor and needy getting an extra dollar (or $10) daily without the MCYS minister gunning it down (and it's all right to blow a YOG budget from $100m to $400m without being penalized - e.g. paycut, bonus cut)?

Regulators
11-03-11, 13:20
i don't need the opposition to occupy 100% of the seats in parliament, just 30% is good enough for me. I always believe in checks and balance. I don't agree that laws should be passed within hours when people hardly get a chance to react to it. We may have elected the PAP as government (by default mainly), but that doesnt mean people should have no say in what they do. The first change that should happen is a big reduction in ministerial salaries. public service should never be compared to private sector, simply becoz both strive for different causes. when ministers get their allowances from government coffers, that amount is never meant to rival private sector and should only act as a token sum. If ministers feel they can get paid better elsewhere and leave the public service, it simply shows their heart is in the wrong place. Why would an mps running a successful multimillion dollar business still want to take millions from taxpayers when he could simply allow the government to use that money to help underprivileged people in singapore and the sick? most of our mps can literally retire for more than 10 lifetimes from the past salaries that they draw from the taxpaying public so why do they still need a pay increment? if there is any charity to be shown, the ministers should lead by example. i cant understand how charity events can still invite that figurehead to be guest of honour or spread a red carpet for mps to attend. :doh: :doh: :doh:


but at least nid to noe whether the opposition got the 'substance' anot rite? mabe pian jiat only leh? ride on the bad sentiment about minster pay etc.....

eng81157
11-03-11, 13:22
u don cast vote for opposition juz becos of the pay rise of president right :doh: i agree the rise is way too much but this is only one of the items for governing and run a country. if opposition can come up with better idea/solution to solve issue like inflation, high cost etc definitely opposition can earn their vote. if they are only there to question why why why w/o any constructive solution.....any ppl in the street can do tat. if there is a real problem when the whole team of ministers cannot resolve, what make u think a small team of opposition can do a better job

the PAP candidates and ministers are purported to possess stratospheric levels of talent and they can't even bring about (or don't have the guts) a robust debate in a relatively simple matter.

i'm a simple voter. i just need a gutsy, level-headed representative who dares question stuff in the parliament. do i see such a candidate from PAP? NO. i'd take my chances with the opposition any time. if they don't have a chance to govern, we won't know how good or bad (as what the ruling party always claim) they are.

eng81157
11-03-11, 13:23
i don't need the opposition to occupy 100% of the seats in parliament, just 30% is good enough for me. I always believe in checks and balance. I don't agree that laws should be passed within hours when people hardly get a chance to react to it. We may have elected the PAP as government (by default mainly), but that doesnt mean people should have no say in what they do. The first change that should happen is a big reduction in ministerial salaries. public service should never be compared to private sector, simply becoz both strive for different causes. when ministers get their allowances from government coffers, that amount is never meant to rival private sector and should only act as a token sum. If ministers feel they can get paid better elsewhere and leave the public service, it simply shows their heart is in the wrong place. Why would an mps running a successful multimillion dollar business still want to take millions from taxpayers when he could simply allow the government to use that money to help underprivileged people in singapore and the sick? most of our mps can literally retire for more than 10 lifetimes from the past salaries that they draw from the taxpaying public so why do they still need a pay increment? if there is any charity to be shown, the ministers should lead by example. i cant understand how charity events can still invite that figurehead to be guest of honour or spread a red carpet for mps to attend. :doh: :doh: :doh:

kudos to you! we share the same sentiments

Regulators
11-03-11, 13:27
the opposition has to be voted in first to prove their worth. Why would the opposition at this stage come out with brilliant ideas for the government to use to their advantage? There are scholars and Cambridge scholars in the opposition as well, so you think they cannot think up what PAP has come up with?


u don cast vote for opposition juz becos of the pay rise of president right :doh: i agree the rise is way too much but this is only one of the items for governing and run a country. if opposition can come up with better idea/solution to solve issue like inflation, high cost etc definitely opposition can earn their vote. if they are only there to question why why why w/o any constructive solution.....any ppl in the street can do tat. if there is a real problem when the whole team of ministers cannot resolve, what make u think a small team of opposition can do a better job

hopeful
11-03-11, 13:33
Given the missteps of the current government, and the level of anger among the vocal populace, if the opposition doens't increase its seats in Parliament, I would say Singaporeans only NATO. :D

devilplate
11-03-11, 13:39
anyway, i will listen to both parties and decide.....u goto earn my vote:cheers6:

devilplate
11-03-11, 13:41
pardon my ignorance, opposition parties earning similar pay or lesser if comparing same grade?

i worried they pian jiat leh....

Regulators
11-03-11, 13:41
you must see if all singaporeans get to vote in the first place. you can only call singaporeans nato if after all singaporeans have voted and the result remains status quo.


Given the missteps of the current government, and the level of anger among the vocal populace, if the opposition doens't increase its seats in Parliament, I would say Singaporeans only NATO. :D

devilplate
11-03-11, 13:43
the opposition has to be voted in first to prove their worth. Why would the opposition at this stage come out with brilliant ideas for the government to use to their advantage? There are scholars and Cambridge scholars in the opposition as well, so you think they cannot think up what PAP has come up with?

scary....shd give us a proposal or smthing rite to earn our vote mah....whr got just tok bad about other's flaws to win votes? if not it will 'change' from bad to WORSE:scared-1: :scared-3: :banghead: :doh:

i used to laugh at taiwan....their ministers fight and scold at each other:doh:

thomastansb
11-03-11, 13:44
I guess those represent 1% only. Most are ranting online. There are still many who doesn't use the internet or media.

Anyway, opposition needs to come up with better ideas. Not countering whatever PAP do. That is dumb. They are not going to win by opposing. If you oppose with solution, I think it is better. Stop criticizing and propose better solutions, and they might stand a chance. Singaporeas are not stupid. They go to the one who bring them $ and stability. There might be a handful who are angry or pissed off whatever, they don't represent the majority.




Given the missteps of the current government, and the level of anger among the vocal populace, if the opposition doens't increase its seats in Parliament, I would say Singaporeans only NATO. :D

thomastansb
11-03-11, 13:51
Ya, agree. If you say IR is bad for Singapore, how else can you improve singapore to bring that kind of jobs, growth, money and tourism etc etc etc otherwise? They talk too much but I don't see fantastic idea coming. They are only good at telling you, GST reduce to 3%. Then 4% take from where? Spend our reserve? Then opposition like to say housing too expensive without thinking 80% own HDB and probably 30 to 35% own private. More than 15% own two or more so if we are going to let opposition win, the value of my house will drop. And I don't want to see that happening. Just to satisfy the 1% who are trying to buy? I think that is dumb.







scary....shd give us a proposal or smthing rite to earn our vote mah....whr got just tok bad about other's flaws to win votes? if not it will 'change' from bad to WORSE:scared-1: :scared-3: :banghead: :doh:

i used to laugh at taiwan....their ministers fight and scold at each other:doh:

eng81157
11-03-11, 13:54
scary....shd give us a proposal or smthing rite to earn our vote mah....whr got just tok bad about other's flaws to win votes? if not it will 'change' from bad to WORSE:scared-1: :scared-3: :banghead: :doh:

i used to laugh at taiwan....their ministers fight and scold at each other:doh:

some of the opposition parties have already published their manifestos online, with their strategies outlined. i agree that bashing for the sake of bashing is not productive. however, the oppositions' manifestos and strategies aren't given a chance to be executed.

the credible opposition parties have progressed tremendously from being a bandwagon of rabblerousers, in the past, to being able to present alternative solutions currently. whether these solutions are sound or not, we won't know till they are being given a chance to be played out

Regulators
11-03-11, 14:03
The previous workers party manifesto is 52 pages long, enjoy your read:

http://wp.sg/manifesto/


Ya, agree. If you say IR is bad for Singapore, how else can you improve singapore to bring that kind of jobs, growth, money and tourism etc etc etc otherwise? They talk too much but I don't see fantastic idea coming. They are only good at telling you, GST reduce to 3%. Then 4% take from where? Spend our reserve? Then opposition like to say housing too expensive without thinking 80% own HDB and probably 30 to 35% own private. More than 15% own two or more so if we are going to let opposition win, the value of my house will drop. And I don't want to see that happening. Just to satisfy the 1% who are trying to buy? I think that is dumb.

tericia
11-03-11, 14:39
you must see if all singaporeans get to vote in the first place. you can only call singaporeans nato if after all singaporeans have voted and the result remains status quo.

not sure if i saw wrongly but today's Today newspaper reported that President Nathan's pay is going to be increased.

Regulators
11-03-11, 15:12
that is a good reason to vote the current party out.


not sure if i saw wrongly but today's Today newspaper reported that President Nathan's pay is going to be increased.

focus
11-03-11, 15:36
PAP really hiong hor.. Kar Kar increase pay .. very confident populace sentiment will be alright.

this one like NBA commentor saying... "WHOA! IN YOUR FACE!".. when maybe Kobe do a slam dunk right in front of some other NBA players.

Regulators
11-03-11, 16:36
our gahmen raise the prices of almost every damn thing and people's pay don't increase very much or not at all, paying themselves high is one thing, they don't pay taxes on that income as well.
PAP really hiong hor.. Kar Kar increase pay .. very confident populace sentiment will be alright.

this one like NBA commentor saying... "WHOA! IN YOUR FACE!".. when maybe Kobe do a slam dunk right in front of some other NBA players.

romeo
11-03-11, 22:33
huh.. really ah.. they dun pay taxes on their income??:doh:

ay123
11-03-11, 23:51
our gahmen raise the prices of almost every damn thing and people's pay don't increase very much or not at all, paying themselves high is one thing, they don't pay taxes on that income as well.
Ppl pay don increase so much watt do u expect govt to do? Force company give high increment? Didn't govt give subsidy to encourage worker to upgrade? Isn't upgrading n education the road to get out of poverty? Ppl have to work for their living don expect everything to drop from sky. Are we to follow us or uk to feed those lazy pig tat don want to work. Remember read an article bat one uk family of five or six, they are getting 55000 pound per year from govt. And he still has the cheek to tell reporter he is not going to get a job becos he is earning much lesser than the sky money from govt:doh:
Are u sure minister don pay tax??? If they don, why opposition never raise before?

devilplate
12-03-11, 00:03
Remember read an article bat one uk family of five or six, they are getting 55000 pound per year from govt. And he still has the cheek to tell reporter he is not going to get a job becos he is earning much lesser than the sky money from govt:doh:


countries like aussie, holland same same....after their high income tax, they r getting similar or even lesser den govt's free monies...so they might as well dun work lor....

over there, its like work hard to feed the free loaders...LOL....:rolleyes:

Regulators
12-03-11, 02:04
ministers' pay exempted from tax lah, you can go and check this out. Let me ask you, as a public servant, why does a figurehead president want to do with SGD$18,000 of income per day? Why is there a need to increase from $16000 to $18000 per day, you mean to tell me $16,000 a day not enough for him to spend? Even $2000 a day I think is too much for any minister.

We are talking about government compensating civil servants with huge pay increases and bonuses. Who doesn't know that everybody needs to work, but why use taxpayers money to reward only those in the civil service and not all singaporeans who are working to serve the economy? All working singaporeans contribute to the economy be it private or public sector, so what makes those in the civil service an edge above those normal office workers in the private sector?




Ppl pay don increase so much watt do u expect govt to do? Force company give high increment? Didn't govt give subsidy to encourage worker to upgrade? Isn't upgrading n education the road to get out of poverty? Ppl have to work for their living don expect everything to drop from sky. Are we to follow us or uk to feed those lazy pig tat don want to work. Remember read an article bat one uk family of five or six, they are getting 55000 pound per year from govt. And he still has the cheek to tell reporter he is not going to get a job becos he is earning much lesser than the sky money from govt:doh:
Are u sure minister don pay tax??? If they don, why opposition never raise before?

DaytonaSS
12-03-11, 06:55
U sure Bo, where got pple above the law one, common sense right? Pls quote some proof leh. If u don't have a source that is correct don't anyhow post, later u drink free coffee ah

hopeful
12-03-11, 08:16
ministers' pay exempted from tax lah, you can go and check this out. .......
This is quite a revelation if this is true.
Opposition can used this during campaigning but this is not a game changer.
Majority will not vote for opposition just because of this and other missteps.

Opposition need to come up with something better. I would say people here vote their pockets, not with their hearts.

land118
12-03-11, 09:36
If we want to be seen as a global citizen, think we can do more. Most of the time our government may send medical team or rescue team to aid relief mission, but when it come to cash contribution, sometimes our token sum is really small, better don't give. Take the case of Haiti relief, we gave only usd50k, compared rest of our friends. China and S.Korea gave usd1m each, while Australia gave us$9.3m. On the other hand, u can also say our Government is really prudent and protecting our Re$erve.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mr-brown/4275604106/

http://www.mrbrown.com/blog/2010/01/reply-from-mfa-on-singapores-generous-50k-donation-to-haiti.html

Wonder Japan earthquake, will we be helping this time...

Just check , our civil defense is on standby...as per below, Thailand offer usd165k equivalent...

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/factbox-aid-rescue-offers-japan-quake-20110311-093048-399.html

hopeful
12-03-11, 10:41
If we want to be seen as a global citizen, think we can do more. Most of the time our government may send medical team or rescue team to aid relief mission, but when it come to cash contribution, sometimes our token sum is really small, better don't give. Take the case of Haiti relief, we gave only usd50k, compared rest of our friends. China and S.Korea gave usd1m each, while Australia gave us$9.3m. On the other hand, u can also say our Government is really prudent and protecting our Re$erve.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mr-brown/4275604106/

http://www.mrbrown.com/blog/2010/01/reply-from-mfa-on-singapores-generous-50k-donation-to-haiti.html

Wonder Japan earthquake, will we be helping this time...

Just check , our civil defense is on standby...as per below, Thailand offer usd165k equivalent...

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/factbox-aid-rescue-offers-japan-quake-20110311-093048-399.html

actually Singapore government is practical, Indonesia is more useful, send lots of help.
Haiti is far away and as far as I know, useless to Singapore. so 50k is more than enough.

Regulators
12-03-11, 10:44
Income tax exemption for ministers was what I heard last time, but the crux of the matter is not about whether they get taxed, it is why a figurehead president should be deserving of the highest pay in the world for doing little in the eyes of many? ministers often advocate working past 60, but they must understand that not all jobs are as cushy as working in airconditioned offices, getting chauffeured or flown around to talk to people. Can a warehouse assistant still continue to carry boxes around at 65, not to even mention 83? As a taxpayer, who would be happy to see their money going to waste in this manner. in the first place, or country should not even be having an elected president coz we adopt the westminster style of government from england. To suggest that the president acts like the queen of england would be totally absurd
U sure Bo, where got pple above the law one, common sense right? Pls quote some proof leh. If u don't have a source that is correct don't anyhow post, later u drink free coffee ah

Regulators
12-03-11, 11:03
What has this got to do with ministerial and presidential pay?
actually Singapore government is practical, Indonesia is more useful, send lots of help.
Haiti is far away and as far as I know, useless to Singapore. so 50k is more than enough.

august
12-03-11, 14:08
What has this got to do with ministerial and presidential pay?

Throw in a spanner to sidetrack the discussion. ;)

romeo
13-03-11, 00:41
50k!?? knn.. might as well dun give.. give liao make pple laff..:doh:

wah lau, minister tax exemption.. president $18k per day.. propose raise a little to help needy kana shot down.. can't take it!!

none of these mps dare raise up?? stripped of their backbones?

Regulators
13-03-11, 09:25
Also our mps president tell people to be charitable, but I don't see them being philanthropic in any way, president just openly accept the pay raise without feeling pai seh. I think the voices of the people in this forum site speaks it all http://forum.channelnewsasia.com/viewtopic.php?t=416401&start=260
50k!?? knn.. might as well dun give.. give liao make pple laff..:doh:

wah lau, minister tax exemption.. president $18k per day.. propose raise a little to help needy kana shot down.. can't take it!!

none of these mps dare raise up?? stripped of their backbones?

peterng8
13-03-11, 09:26
focus is right. very right. you don't your internet devices have unique id?

By the way, I support the PAP government. My investments in Singapore you know :ashamed1:

You never notice how Chee Soon Juan, before he joined, everything was fine. When he joined opposition, taxi fare also become problem. :doh:Send wife's documents overseas also become problem. :doh:
Yup, can call me a coward or no balls, if you like. I dont mind. My ego is not big. Money in pocket more important. :cheers1:


Alot of foreigners BECOME singaporeans for a a myraid of reasons...are these the quality of people singapore wish to attract or just their money?
draw your own conclusions...

U can support any ONE you have confident that can do their job WELL regardless of which party , meritrocracy plays an important part...look at potong pasir and hougang...

can i call you another name? no ball and no brains...:) i think is ok since your EGO is not big too which is a good point as I like people like you too...:D I would like to have people like you to work for me if u need to but i dont think u need it as u have all the investment...:D

peterng8
13-03-11, 09:29
Given the missteps of the current government, and the level of anger among the vocal populace, if the opposition doens't increase its seats in Parliament, I would say Singaporeans only NATO. :D


A shallow person calling singaporean NATO? Sorry I forget u bcome singaporean just to protect your investment...:D

peterng8
13-03-11, 09:35
his ROD and BALLS bigger den any of us mah:D

thanks for the compliments...I am humble person u know dont tell others even u know mine is bigger...:D

devilplate
13-03-11, 12:02
A shallow person calling singaporean NATO? Sorry I forget u bcome singaporean just to protect your investment...:D

den wat about u? an agent calling others as agents .....:tongue3:

devilplate
13-03-11, 12:03
thanks for the compliments...I am humble person u know dont tell others even u know mine is bigger...:D

who noes...mabe urs is so tiny tats y u nid an outlet to boast ur small ego...:D

Condo Kaiser
13-03-11, 14:23
Haha, we are really quite power. From property talk until politics then finally talk until reproductive organs.

romeo
13-03-11, 17:13
it is utterly disappointing.. to mps.. its still abt $$$.. pui!!!

i think pap will still be the ruling party after the coming election.. it shld take a few elections for opp parties to get majority.. but i hope opposition win more seats or at least one grc..

pap always say opposition field in members of inferior calibre.. but i still wana vote them in n at least see them fail..

romeo
13-03-11, 17:16
Every empire has a golden age
Alas every empire will fall.. the time is near

focus
13-03-11, 20:09
Walau.. election coming already.. they really very hiong..
Dunno what they are trying to accomplish by angering sinkies..

http://sg.yfittopostblog.com/2011/03/13/spore-floods-nothing-compared-to-japan-disaster-sm-goh/

Mr Goh said, “How many of you followed the latest tragic events in Japan with the tsunami… and then put into context our floods in Singapore against that kind of disaster.”
“I am not saying we shouldn’t do anything about the flood. But the amount of noise you made with just sporadic flood compared to the Japanese. I saw them on TV. Very stoic looking. You don’t see them crying. This has happened, just get on, that’s the kind of spirit you want to have and you call it nation building.”

rattydrama
13-03-11, 20:23
No need to think for sure they will. Good to have opposition. Why bother about calibre when in the first place they don't even have the chance to proof? If they're really no good, next election just vote them out again. :spliff:

Regulators
13-03-11, 22:56
too many chicken shits in this forum, either working for civil service and afraid their votes get tracked (which is bullshit) or afraid their investments will plunge in value. I am very sure that voting is confidential whether you are civil servant or not coz my relative in the civil service told me no way pap can check. And on polling day, please don't spoil the vote coz it won't help to do that. For this election, i hope to see at least 40% of parliament filled up by opposition.


No need to think for sure they will. Good to have opposition. Why bother about calibre when in the first place they don't even have the chance to proof? If they're really no good, next election just vote them out again. :spliff:

romeo
13-03-11, 23:15
too many chicken shits in this forum, either working for civil service and afraid their votes get tracked (which is bullshit) or afraid their investments will plunge in value. I am very sure that voting is confidential whether you are civil servant or not coz my relative in the civil service told me no way pap can check. And on polling day, please don't spoil the vote coz it won't help to do that. For this election, i hope to see at least 40% of parliament filled up by opposition.

i civil servant leh.. uniform somemore.. but i vote Opp anytime. n i believe too votes r confi.. anyway, civil service suppose to be neutral..
n altho im civil servant, i dun see my pay increase leh.. still pathetic.. only TOP Civil servants who wayang in parliament get increase..:banghead:

Talking abt Jap tsunami.. many foreigners there leaving the country
if same-scale incident happen in SG, a quarter of our population gone?!? :scared-4:

peterng8
13-03-11, 23:29
den wat about u? an agent calling others as agents .....:tongue3:


in what way you think i AM A bloody AGENT? :)

peterng8
13-03-11, 23:31
who noes...mabe urs is so tiny tats y u nid an outlet to boast ur small ego...:D


tiny how to use as ROD? common sense la..u agent no common sense one meh...no wonder need CEA to set up and control u guys...:D

peterng8
13-03-11, 23:36
Walau.. election coming already.. they really very hiong..
Dunno what they are trying to accomplish by angering sinkies..

http://sg.yfittopostblog.com/2011/03/13/spore-floods-nothing-compared-to-japan-disaster-sm-goh/

Mr Goh said, “How many of you followed the latest tragic events in Japan with the tsunami… and then put into context our floods in Singapore against that kind of disaster.”
“I am not saying we shouldn’t do anything about the flood. But the amount of noise you made with just sporadic flood compared to the Japanese. I saw them on TV. Very stoic looking. You don’t see them crying. This has happened, just get on, that’s the kind of spirit you want to have and you call it nation building.”

sama sama, remember who is the one that say this is peanut that make headline and whole singapore :scared-4: jumps...

peterng8
13-03-11, 23:39
:D
i civil servant leh.. uniform somemore.. but i vote Opp anytime. n i believe too votes r confi.. anyway, civil service suppose to be neutral..
n altho im civil servant, i dun see my pay increase leh.. still pathetic.. only TOP Civil servants who wayang in parliament get increase..:banghead:

Talking abt Jap tsunami.. many foreigners there leaving the country
if same-scale incident happen in SG, a quarter of our population gone?!? :scared-4:


those who are converted from PRs and FTs for the sake of their investments very highly possible are the ones who leave first...:D

peterng8
13-03-11, 23:48
den wat about u? an agent calling others as agents .....:tongue3:

I am just borowing hopeful's own admission in the previus posts that he is a shallow person, become singaporean to protect his investment, a coward etc...

why are you so angry leh unless ....:D

another BCL...:D

peterng8
13-03-11, 23:52
too many chicken shits in this forum, either working for civil service and afraid their votes get tracked (which is bullshit) or afraid their investments will plunge in value. I am very sure that voting is confidential whether you are civil servant or not coz my relative in the civil service told me no way pap can check. And on polling day, please don't spoil the vote coz it won't help to do that. For this election, i hope to see at least 40% of parliament filled up by opposition.


Frnd, not to dampen your spirits, but 40% is very hard...if you can see 5 of them that will be miracle liao...:D

but this year alot of oppositions leh compare to previous one...:)

Regulators
14-03-11, 00:29
you are right, i am just being optimistic, but for change to take place, it requires people to have optimism first.


Frnd, not to dampen your spirits, but 40% is very hard...if you can see 5 of them that will be miracle liao...:D

but this year alot of oppositions leh compare to previous one...:)

Regulators
14-03-11, 00:35
well done to you, at least you are not one of those chicken shits wearing uniform. i still know many civil servants who can wet in their pants at the thought of voting for opposition for fear of losing their jobs, and they have been hanging on to that myth that pap can check their votes. These people are really shallow imo. You may want to educate them how the voting system works...cheers :cheers1:


i civil servant leh.. uniform somemore.. but i vote Opp anytime. n i believe too votes r confi.. anyway, civil service suppose to be neutral..
n altho im civil servant, i dun see my pay increase leh.. still pathetic.. only TOP Civil servants who wayang in parliament get increase..:banghead:

DaytonaSS
14-03-11, 00:42
well done to you, at least you are not one of those chicken shits wearing uniform. i still know many civil servants who can wet in their pants at the thought of voting for opposition for fear of losing their jobs, and they have been hanging on to that myth that pap can check their votes. These people are really shallow imo. You may want to educate them how the voting system works...cheers :cheers1:

yo dont u do something about it? U have the passion to see some changes. OR u also stop at 1 vote only? I am sure u can do some changes to the unfair income treatment. Work the ground and get yourself voted in lah. There are tons of pple waiting to vote for opposition to counter check them.

rattydrama
14-03-11, 00:56
too many chicken shits in this forum, either working for civil service and afraid their votes get tracked (which is bullshit) or afraid their investments will plunge in value. I am very sure that voting is confidential whether you are civil servant or not coz my relative in the civil service told me no way pap can check. And on polling day, please don't spoil the vote coz it won't help to do that. For this election, i hope to see at least 40% of parliament filled up by opposition.
Although I want to see more opposions I don't think 40% at this moment is the right time. Don't rock the boat. It might captize. Teng xiao peng said to hong kong, 50 years no change. So any change has to be gradual.

Regulators
14-03-11, 00:58
it is not that i dont want, not everyone is cut out to be in politics. great engineers can build a great car like a ferrari, but all the great formula one drivers are never engineers themselves


yo dont u do something about it? U have the passion to see some changes. OR u also stop at 1 vote only? I am sure u can do some changes to the unfair income treatment. Work the ground and get yourself voted in lah. There are tons of pple waiting to vote for opposition to counter check them.

rattydrama
14-03-11, 01:04
yo dont u do something about it? U have the passion to see some changes. OR u also stop at 1 vote only? I am sure u can do some changes to the unfair income treatment. Work the ground and get yourself voted in lah. There are tons of pple waiting to vote for opposition to counter check them.


Regulators, can u speak the way u write? If yes, why not give a shot. But be prepared be ended up like Steve chia. I can remember a lot of things from him, in particular that maid saga.... :spliff:

He said he call it quit yet now he is back again. Hard up of power or??

romeo
14-03-11, 01:09
Regulators, can u speak the way u write? If yes, why not give a shot. But be prepared be ended up like Steve chia. I can remember a lot of things from him, in particular that maid saga.... :spliff:

He said he call it quit yet now he is back again. Hard up of power or??

he sensed wind of change.. ruling party's days are numbered..:)

Regulators
14-03-11, 01:50
steve chia is a smart guy, knows when to lie low and when to come out. This election will be an interesting one.


he sensed wind of change.. ruling party's days are numbered..:)

rattydrama
14-03-11, 06:31
he sensed wind of change.. ruling party's days are numbered..:)maybe with regulators around not Steve. ;)

eng81157
14-03-11, 08:54
it is utterly disappointing.. to mps.. its still abt $$$.. pui!!!

i think pap will still be the ruling party after the coming election.. it shld take a few elections for opp parties to get majority.. but i hope opposition win more seats or at least one grc..

pap always say opposition field in members of inferior calibre.. but i still wana vote them in n at least see them fail..

same sentiments. i don't see the opposition grabbing the majority of the election seats but will still vote for the opposition to voice my discontentment for nicompoop-kind policies and the all-but-too-often snatching of citizens' money with irrelevant programs e.g. compulsory annuity and i can't spend my own cpf $ after i retire, in the way i desire.

if the govt wants more of our $ to bankroll more stupid Temasek investment decisions, just say so. don't treat me as a dumbass and manage my $ for me.

hopeful
14-03-11, 09:28
I am just borowing hopeful's own admission in the previus posts that he is a shallow person, become singaporean to protect his investment, a coward etc...

why are you so angry leh unless ....:D

another BCL...:D

huh, I have not converted to Singaporean. No benefits so far that makes me push to become Singaporean.
no money to buy real landed property anyway.
Perhaps tax rate of 20% for non-residents, but then I buy and sell within a cycle, so not depending on rental income anyway.
If need PUB services, telephone line, starhub,etc, can use passport and a few hundred dollars deposit.
The status quo so far is good for me. So why should any person with entrenched interests vote for change? Self interest at work here.

Just like water take the easiest route, I also take the easy way out.
People have low expectations of a cowardly and shallow person, so yeah, easy for me to surpass their expectations :D.
People have high expectations of a brave person, and when that person fails to meet the bar, criticisms come in from all sides :D.

what is BCL?

ay123
14-03-11, 09:58
too many chicken shits in this forum, either working for civil service and afraid their votes get tracked (which is bullshit) or afraid their investments will plunge in value. I am very sure that voting is confidential whether you are civil servant or not coz my relative in the civil service told me no way pap can check. And on polling day, please don't spoil the vote coz it won't help to do that. For this election, i hope to see at least 40% of parliament filled up by opposition.
cannot understand!!! anyone vote for pap is chicken shit? those vote for opposition is hero??? i am not civil servant but i support pap, anything wrong to support pap? the only thing that u not happy is the minister pay. lets be objective, beside the minister pay, do u think ur govt really so bad thay they deserve to be voted out? if jus need some opposition in to make some noise isnt it stupid. the opposition beside making noise by asking why, wat else can they do? the figurehead had big increment, did the opposition make noise? i also cannot agree to the big increment for the clown but if our govt is so bad, why is other country come here to learn and why spore in always one of the top in global ranking?

wenqing
14-03-11, 10:01
Singapore President has important function you know.
He safeguard the Singapore reserves. Imagine your CPF statement shows $1million, but when you want to withdraw all, no money in CPF because government anyhow use the money.

And also during presidential election, can have public holiday :D.


By the way, Wenqing is coming soon.....

I got nothing new to add except Singapore leaders are grossly overpaid considering that our leaders got less responsibility, less transparency, less accountability as compared to world leaders.

Our leaders like to list down difficulties Singapore face but never list down the advantages of Singapore, they always use the worst case examples which does not paint accurate picture of entire situation :


Singapore is small and more managable.
Singapore has docile population.
Singapore has been successfully breed to think only about money, ownself and nothing else.
Singapore has no 4 seasons so policies no need to adjust to rapid changes.
Singapore has no natural disasters. (One Orchard Rd flood and the government cannot cope already, not to mention Japanese size tsunami and earthquakes)
Singapore has natural deep harbour for good port and good geographical location (Reasons why Raffles fought so hard with Dutch for this tiny island and thus giving up entire Indonesia in exchange.)
Singapore was already a more advanced nation under the British compare to other SEA nations when PAP took over. The Japanese call it Syonan-To (Light of South). Similiar to HK.
The British left behind a functioning Civil Service and blueprint of government functions for future governments.
The entire world had advance and prosper materially, not just Singapore. Not only Singaporeans have iPhones, BMWs and Private Houses, other countries also have.
Whatever I want to say on this topic is already mentioned here:

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=10577

wenqing
14-03-11, 10:31
cannot understand!!! anyone vote for pap is chicken shit? those vote for opposition is hero??? i am not civil servant but i support pap, anything wrong to support pap? the only thing that u not happy is the minister pay. lets be objective, beside the minister pay, do u think ur govt really so bad thay they deserve to be voted out? if jus need some opposition in to make some noise isnt it stupid. the opposition beside making noise by asking why, wat else can they do? the figurehead had big increment, did the opposition make noise? i also cannot agree to the big increment for the clown but if our govt is so bad, why is other country come here to learn and why spore in always one of the top in global ranking?

I guess Regulator was just responding in kind to you since you generalise Opposition to be only making noise, being stupid and nothing else.

If you can generalise Opposition as noise and stupid, so can Regulator generalise PAP voters as chicken and shit.

So you mean when PAP was Opposition, MM Lee, Goh Keng Swee and the pioneer batch was all noise makers and stupid ??

It is a mirror.

People vote for different parties for own subjective reasons, no right and no wrong.

People take sides in elections because our constitution is base on multi-parties electoral system. It is natural to take sides.

Unless you are a fence sitter and spoil votes all the time. You do not go to a soccer match supporting both teams right ??

You cannot say Opposition did not hightlight anything. You only make yourself sound ignorant and silly.

Information is everywhere, not just ST and CNA.

ST and CNA already admitted to being pro-government so the credibility of its news is already compromised. The news you get from MSM is fixed and regulated.


Dig yourself on Internet unless you are are still living in the 1990s .

Besides, we only have 2 Opposition MPs in Parliament and each MP are only given minutes to talk for each Parliament session, so they can only choose the most important topics to talk.

When you have limited bandwidth , it is like that.


WP MP Low Thia Khiang was the one in Parliament that highlighted the increase of civil service pay was 30% compare to last year when no PAP MPs said anything about it.

He mentioned even private sector is not that high in pay increment.

Nobody would have knew about the pay increase if MP Low Thia Khiang did not highlight it because even CNA and ST only briefly mentioned about it which is easy to miss.

At far back as 2007, Opposition MPs Chiam See Tong and Low Thia Khiang , NCMP Sylvia Lim and NMP Siew Kum Hong already objected the pay increase as the reasons given by government was filmsy and unjustifiable but all PAP MPs agreed to the pay increment.

This is what you get for 82 PAP Parliament Votes vs 2 Parliament Votes.

Singapore also learn alot from other countries, not just other countries learning from Singapore.

You equate learning to being good government ?? Too shallow. Then alot of governments that Singapore learnt from would not have been voted out.

Where do you get your cars, iPhones, laptops, tv dramas, songs etc from ??

If you work around the world and MNCs before, you should know the world status of Singaporeans is not high at all.

Even countries like Japan, Korea and Taiwan where PAP always use their divided Parliament as punching bag are producing the Panasonics, Samsungs, Toyotas, HTC, Acer etc

What is Singapore producing that the world needs ??

Talk about world ranking, the ranking changes every year and PAP only show Singaporeans the good rankings but not the bad rankings, surely you are smarter than this to see through this type of sales tactics.

So what if Singapore is Number 1 in airports, airlines and seaports which had dropped, Singaporeans are still struggling to pay its bills.

Look at our overcrowded hospitals, middle ranking universities and heavily-criticised judicial system ?? All rank Number 1?

No ranking last forever and I prefer not to vote on such shallow stuff.

When you have a top Minister like SM Goh making low EQ statements and get blasted by everybody, you know time is up for him at least.

http://sg.yfittopostblog.com/2011/03/13/spore-floods-nothing-compared-to-japan-disaster-sm-goh/

I only vote on performance and policies and the last 5 years, it was bad.

ay123
14-03-11, 10:47
So you mean when PAP was Opposition, MM Lee, Goh Keng Swee and the pioneer batch was all noise makers and stupid ??


THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM POINTING AT!! MM Lee start as opposition party and he PROVED his capability and win. If the opposition has such quality, do u think people will not vote for them!!! since u and regulator are so pro-opposition why don both of u form another party and prove it rather than hide behind the internet and talk and talk and talk with no action. only know how to say need opposition to be the guard dog :doh: we don need a party to go to parliament and make noise with no plan

wenqing
14-03-11, 10:54
same sentiments. i don't see the opposition grabbing the majority of the election seats but will still vote for the opposition to voice my discontentment for nicompoop-kind policies and the all-but-too-often snatching of citizens' money with irrelevant programs e.g. compulsory annuity and i can't spend my own cpf $ after i retire, in the way i desire.

if the govt wants more of our $ to bankroll more stupid Temasek investment decisions, just say so. don't treat me as a dumbass and manage my $ for me.

Especially in 2007, when government raise GST from 3% to 7% to help fund the Minister Pay Increase to be highest in the world.

Singapore is such a small country but has the most expensive government in the world.

Can Singaporeans help sustain this kind of highest pay without taxing Singaporeans further ??

I doubt so.

Some interesting factual links I found.

There gems of information everywhere on Internet.

Pay below is before latest increase.

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=3096999

http://www.transitioning.org/2010/02/19/worlds-richest-and-best-paid/


The TOP 30 highest paid politicians in the World are all from Singapore !!

1. Elected President SR Nathan – S$3.9 million.
2. Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong – S$3.8 million.
3. Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew – S$3.5 million.
4. Senior Minister Goh Chok Thong – S$3.5 million.
5. Senior Minister Prof Jayakumar – S$3.2 million.
6. DPM & Home Affairs Minister Wong Kan Seng – S$2.9 million.
7. DPM & Defence Minister Teo Chee Hean – $2.9 million
8. Foreign Affairs Minister George Yeo – S$2.8 million.
9. National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan – S$2.7 million.
10. PMO Miniser Lim Boon Heng – S$2.7 million.
11. Trade and Industry Minister Lim Hng Kiang – S$2.7 million.
12. PMO Minister Lim Swee Say – S$2.6 million.
13. Environment Minister & Muslim Affairs Minister Dr Yaccob Ibrahim – S$2.6 million.
14. Health Minister Khaw Boon Wan – S$2.6 million.
15. Finance Minister S Tharman – S$2.6 million.
16. Education Minister & 2nd Minister for Defence Dr Ng Eng Hen – S$2.6 million.
17. Community Development Youth and Sports Minister – Dr Vivian Balakrishnan – S$2.5 million.
18. Transport Minister & 2nd Minister for Foreign Affairs Raymond Lim Siang Kiat – S$2.5 million.
19. Law Minister & 2nd Minister for Home Affairs K Shanmugam – S$2.4 million.
20. Manpower Minister Gan Kim Yong – S$2.2 million.
21. PMO Minister Lim Hwee Hwa – S$2.2 million
22. Acting ICA Minister – Lui Tuck Yew – S$2.0 million.
23 to 30 = Senior Ministers of State and Ministers of State – each getting between S$1.8 million to S$1.5 million.

---------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/269463/1/.html

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=2622592&page=4

One-Third Revenue from GST Increase goes to Minister Pay Increment


How well is well-paid?
By Tan Hui Leng and Jasmie Yen, TODAY (http://www.todayonline.com/) | Posted: 10 April 2007 1028




They expressed support for the need to pay top dollar for top talent in the public sector.

But Members of Parliament (MPs) who took part in yesterday's parliamentary debate on the pay hike also spoke passionately about what many Singaporeans believe to be the heart of the issue: The benchmarking formula used to determine ministerial pay.

Ang Mo Kio MP Inderjit Singh noted that Singaporeans could not expect their leaders to serve based on altruism alone. "Are we willing to leave the future of the country to chance, that we will get good people who will give up their competence without caring about their salary?" he asked.

Some MPs, however, saw problems in benchmarking ministers' pay to the private sector, pointing out to disparities in the risks taken by company chief executives and ministers and top civil servants.

Marine Parade MP Lim Biow Chuan said: "I struggle to understand what a top Admin Officer aged 32 at grade SR9 has to worry about that will justify him receiving $363,000 a year … From many people's perspectives, they take no personal risk and are at best, paid employees."

Opposition MPs Mr Chiam See Tong (Potong Pasir) and Hougang's Low Thia Khiang took issue with the fact that Singapore's ministers are paid more than their counterparts in developed countries.

MPs like Bishan-Toa Payoh's Mrs Josephine Teo, however, pointed out that ministers in other countries may make more money after their term in office ends, such as through public speaking.

Some MPs voiced concerns about the timing of announcing the pay revisions, especially with the Goods and Services Tax (GST) due to rise to 7 per cent in July.

Mr Singh said: "How do we answer the man-in-the-street when we're told that about one-quarter to one-third of the expected revenue increase this year from the GST is going to be for the proposed ministerial and civil service salary increases, about $240 million, I was told?"

Mr Low also referred to the recent debate on increasing the amounts for public assistance. "It's also ironic that we are consuming taxpayers' money and … discussing how much more of a fraction of a million to pay civil servants and ministers while we haggle over additional tens of dollars to hand out to our needy and disadvantaged citizens," he said.

Some MPs who supported the pay hike also suggested that the salary benchmarking could be finetuned, such as pegging ministers' salaries to more realistic markers such as top men in private equity firms and top companies based on market capitalisation. -

wenqing
14-03-11, 11:07
So you mean when PAP was Opposition, MM Lee, Goh Keng Swee and the pioneer batch was all noise makers and stupid ??


THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM POINTING AT!! MM Lee start as opposition party and he PROVED his capability and win. If the opposition has such quality, do u think people will not vote for them!!! since u and regulator are so pro-opposition why don both of u form another party and prove it rather than hide behind the internet and talk and talk and talk with no action. only know how to say need opposition to be the guard dog :doh: we don need a party to go to parliament and make noise with no plan

Who say both of us are pro-Opposition and even so, why the need to form a party ?

There are many roles like volunteers, voters and donations. Are you really that shallow ?

When I voted PAP last time, does not mean I am pro-PAP. I voted for PAP as reward for good work past 5 years.

Every 5 years, voting reasons will change according to situation unless you are stagnant person.

If I vote Opposition this time round, it does not mean I am pro-Opposition.

This is because PAP screw up last 5 years and for other subjective reasons like the Singapore political system need a refresh and more competition.

Who say Opposition are just guard dogs, make noise and no plan ??

You are generalising again. The wonder people cannot talk to you. You are just jumping to conclusions.

First you generalise all Opposition = noise, no plan, stupid.

Then you say PAP as Opposition was different. Self denial ?

You are contradicting yourself right ??

Do you know PAP as Opposition had no track record to prove also before they were voted into power ??

Nobody knows what MM Lee and Goh Keng Swee can achieve unless they self proclaim to be fortune tellers.

Back in those times, Singaporeans only know MM Lee was like Dr Chee accusing the then government and ST of this and that, even calling journalists prostitutes of the government.

If you want to make conclusions, do not just generalise and assume.

devilplate
14-03-11, 11:19
I got nothing new to add except Singapore leaders are grossly overpaid considering that our leaders got less responsibility, less transparency, less accountability as compared to world leaders.

Our leaders like to list down difficulties Singapore face but never list down the advantages of Singapore, they always use the worst case examples which does not paint accurate picture of entire situation :

Singapore is small and more managable.
Singapore has docile population.
Singapore has been successfully breed to think only about money, ownself and nothing else.
Singapore has no 4 seasons so policies no need to adjust to rapid changes.
Singapore has no natural disasters. (One Orchard Rd flood and the government cannot cope already, not to mention Japanese size tsunami and earthquakes)
Singapore has natural deep harbour for good port and good geographical location (Reasons why Raffles fought so hard with Dutch for this tiny island and thus giving up entire Indonesia in exchange.)
Singapore was already a more advanced nation under the British compare to other SEA nations when PAP took over. The Japanese call it Syonan-To (Light of South). Similiar to HK.
The British left behind a functioning Civil Service and blueprint of government functions for future governments.
The entire world had advance and prosper materially, not just Singapore. Not only Singaporeans have iPhones, BMWs and Private Houses, other countries also have.Whatever I want to say on this topic is already mentioned here:

http://forums.condosingapore.com/showthread.php?t=10577

actually to turn a useless island into today Singapore...its very impressive lah....we got no history....'no people'....no resources.....no water.....practically nothing on this island......

hopeful
14-03-11, 11:22
Though Opposition was given a chance, when there was 5-6 MPs?
Chee SJ time.
How was their performance?

devilplate
14-03-11, 11:27
Though Opposition was given a chance, when there was 5-6 MPs?
Chee SJ time.
How was their performance?

i heard from seniors tat not many ppl willing to fight for the seats....bcoz not many ppl wana take the shyt work....

PS: i hear say only

wenqing
14-03-11, 12:36
Though Opposition was given a chance, when there was 5-6 MPs?
Chee SJ time.
How was their performance?

There was never a time Opposition had 5-6 Parliament Seats.

The most was 4 Parliament Seats at 1990s using By-election Strategy.

PAP was shocked, then PAP later decided to use an evil method call HDB Upgrading to threathen voters to vote for them.

This is not vote on merit. This is using national resources to benefit one party alone.

Now PAP is still using this method.

eng81157
14-03-11, 12:58
There was never a time Opposition had 5-6 Parliament Seats.

The most was 4 Parliament Seats at 1990s using By-election Strategy.

PAP was shocked, then PAP later decided to use an evil method call HDB Upgrading to threathen voters to vote for them.

This is not vote on merit. This is using national resources to benefit one party alone.

Now PAP is still using this method.

since the HDB upgrading thingie is mentioned, why should opposition wards be relegated to among the last of all wards in Singapore to be upgraded???

aren't these taxpayers too? time and time again the requests for upgrading are slammed shut cos of irrelevant bureaucratic excuses, and only to dangle the upgrading carrot when it comes to elections.

-> ay123, is this considered good governance on the part of the ruling party??

fyi, i don't live in an opposition ward and i work for a govt-linked body and i'm not about to mince my words cos' of fear alone

hopeful
14-03-11, 13:00
There was never a time Opposition had 5-6 Parliament Seats.

The most was 4 Parliament Seats at 1990s using By-election Strategy.

PAP was shocked, then PAP later decided to use an evil method call HDB Upgrading to threathen voters to vote for them.

This is not vote on merit. This is using national resources to benefit one party alone.

Now PAP is still using this method.

How's their performance? Were their wards impressed?
Remembered vaguely they got kick by asserting wrong figures about cost of living (or something like that).
Potong Pasir voters are obviously stick by Chiam, how come the rest of the opposition wards that time don't stick to the other 3 MPs.

ay123
14-03-11, 13:29
How's their performance? Were their wards impressed?
Remembered vaguely they got kick by asserting wrong figures about cost of living (or something like that).
Potong Pasir voters are obviously stick by Chiam, how come the rest of the opposition wards that time don't stick to the other 3 MPs.

see.....they are given a chance but proof the voters wrong. :doh:

eng81157
14-03-11, 14:21
check this out, Japanese PM earns SGD$35,655 (based on current FX rates) per month and deals with earth quake, tsunami, tackling deflation, territorial disputes (with china, vietnam, russia), restructuring the economy, manoveuring complicated inter/intra party politics, etc etc.

with our loose FT hiring policies, i say go grab this guy, pay him a fraction of our president's pay. our president's pay raise of $900k is easily double of the Japanese PM's annual pay package.

hopeful
14-03-11, 14:29
Japanese PM was just involved in a fundraising scandal.
Many Japanese PM involved in scandals.
Kickbacks from industries also.

Within a period of 10 years, how many Japanese PM already?

Wild Falcon
14-03-11, 14:31
Because in the end they decided to vote based on the value of their property and nothing else? It is well known fact that opposition wards are given less funding for upgrading etc. I recall there was a big threat about Potong Pasir not getting their MRT station if they vote for opposition but they still went ahead. You have to give them brownie points for voting for alternative voices in Paliament instead of the value of their property. But PAP have to bear in mind that the younger generation travel and read very widely, so such threats and carrots may not work like magic anymore.


How's their performance? Were their wards impressed?
Remembered vaguely they got kick by asserting wrong figures about cost of living (or something like that).
Potong Pasir voters are obviously stick by Chiam, how come the rest of the opposition wards that time don't stick to the other 3 MPs.

Wild Falcon
14-03-11, 14:33
Just curious, why are you so keen on 87 out of 87 for PAP? Why are you so against some alternative voices? Its interesting why some here seem to prefer a one party shoo-in... It's like getting one agent to sell your house, when there're no checks and balances or competition, a lot of complacency can set in. You can pay your agent $10 million, there is no guarantee that everything he does is in yr best interest, esp when there is no competition or anyone to challenge any of his decisions. It's like giving someone a blank cheque - that cannot be healthy.

This is not a political forum. But its still very insightful that a significant crowd prefer a 100% shoo in with zero opposition.


Japanese PM was just involved in a fundraising scandal.
Many Japanese PM involved in scandals.
Kickbacks from industries also.

Within a period of 10 years, how many Japanese PM already?

august
14-03-11, 15:20
So you mean when PAP was Opposition, MM Lee, Goh Keng Swee and the pioneer batch was all noise makers and stupid ??


THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM POINTING AT!! MM Lee start as opposition party and he PROVED his capability and win. If the opposition has such quality, do u think people will not vote for them!!! since u and regulator are so pro-opposition why don both of u form another party and prove it rather than hide behind the internet and talk and talk and talk with no action. only know how to say need opposition to be the guard dog :doh: we don need a party to go to parliament and make noise with no plan

since 1965 Singapore as a independent nation never had a free and fair election... know your history.

wenqing
14-03-11, 15:23
Japanese PM was just involved in a fundraising scandal.
Many Japanese PM involved in scandals.
Kickbacks from industries also.

Within a period of 10 years, how many Japanese PM already?

I don't think this alone is a strong reason for highest salary increments and you should not generalise this way.

Salary not highest in the world = Kickbacks and scandals will happen.

Many other Japanese leaders and world leaders remain clean despite not pegging their salaries to world highest.

You are saying before the Great Minister Pay Raise at 2007, all the previous PAP governments receive kickbacks and have unreported scandals ??

august
14-03-11, 15:23
Japanese PM was just involved in a fundraising scandal.
Many Japanese PM involved in scandals.
Kickbacks from industries also.

Within a period of 10 years, how many Japanese PM already?


over there u can be found out ~
there is a free press, independent judiciary & other necessary mechanisms for transparency and accountability. Are these independent checks and balances present in spore? lol

eng81157
14-03-11, 15:25
Japanese PM was just involved in a fundraising scandal.
Many Japanese PM involved in scandals.
Kickbacks from industries also.

Within a period of 10 years, how many Japanese PM already?

involved in scandals but how many were actually convicted? victims of politics conspiracies or actual perpetuators of crime - let's leave those out since this is not what the thread is about.

would you consider an average singapore minister, who is sitting on the board of 10-20 companies, taking $10-20k per month for each directorship and yet not turning up for a good majority of the meetings (probable guess based on a finite 24hr's worth of time)? isn't this a disguised form of kickback?

let's just assume sinisterly that each Japanese PM is corrupt. Even if he takes an illegal kickbacks worth of $3.6m (to equal what our president will get), the amount of work done, as compared to waving hands in charity functions, attending gala balls, signing clemency requests, etc, is (pardon-my-language) a whole lot more freaking complex.

wenqing
14-03-11, 15:30
see.....they are given a chance but proof the voters wrong. :doh:

You hype on Opposition MPs voted out but did not consider the PAP MPs voted out prior to them taking over.

After losing 4 seats, PAP knows Singaporeans are greedy, mercenary and selfish that why use HDB upgrading tactic and GRC tactic to win votes.

I cannot say such tactics are good precedent for Singapore.

It skewed the political representations in Parliament and encourage buying of votes as admitted by PM Lee.

It is against the meritrocracy principle often boast by PAP to Singapore.

If PAP does not use threats and spread urban fear legends, how many seats can PAP win on merit alone ??

If voters are not from GLCs, NTUC, CCCs,RCs, Grassroots, CDCs, CDACs, Mendaki, Civil Service etc, how many seats can PAP win on merit alone ??

devilplate
14-03-11, 16:11
ignore...ignore...just ignore:D :spliff: :cheers1:

hopeful
14-03-11, 18:07
((df
Just curious, why are you so keen on 87 out of 87 for PAP? Why are you so against some alternative voices? Its interesting why some here seem to prefer a one party shoo-in... It's like getting one agent to sell your house, when there're no checks and balances or competition, a lot of complacency can set in. You can pay your agent $10 million, there is no guarantee that everything he does is in yr best interest, esp when there is no competition or anyone to challenge any of his decisions. It's like giving someone a blank cheque - that cannot be healthy.

This is not a political forum. But its still very insightful that a significant crowd prefer a 100% shoo in with zero opposition.
well, I have always say those "troublemakers" are those who got nothing. When you have nothing, you have nothing to lose.

Another thing is "The devil you know is better than the devil you don't know."
PAP government is a known quantity. The opposition unknown.
My belief is that PAP government runs Singapore like a body corporate. Benefits for management and screw workers and competitors and shareholders.
Remember what does Singapore have actually? No resources. If they want to corrupt openly in the early years, corrupt 100% of a small cake is still very small and very soon country go down the drain.
Now they enlarge the cake (economy), money taken a small % (of the economy) as wages/bonuses is still more money than corrupt 100% of a small cake.
Each year, take a bit. Can last for generations. This is called sustainable farming :D
Since Singapore well being = PAP government well being, I am pretty sure my investments will only grow with time.

I am living a relatively good life. Although not UHNW, if want to retire now, can still retire. No I don't want to rock the boat.
Generally investors & businessmen don't like uncertainties.

hopeful
14-03-11, 18:23
Just curious, why are you so keen on 87 out of 87 for PAP? Why are you so against some alternative voices? Its interesting why some here seem to prefer a one party shoo-in... It's like getting one agent to sell your house, when there're no checks and balances or competition, a lot of complacency can set in. You can pay your agent $10 million, there is no guarantee that everything he does is in yr best interest, esp when there is no competition or anyone to challenge any of his decisions. It's like giving someone a blank cheque - that cannot be healthy.

This is not a political forum. But its still very insightful that a significant crowd prefer a 100% shoo in with zero opposition.

as i am based outside Singapore, no choice but to give exclusive.
The agent will handled everything. Since I am buy and sell (often?), if he "cheat" me, no more future business for him.

Now, a lot of info and data online. When I sell, I check the transactions before and give him guideline. after I sell, also check transactions after me.
If my transactions doesnt differ far from next transaction, I am happy already.

So PAP government is like exclusive agent. If not performing, I will take my money elsewhere.

OOT:
Wonder if agent is female, can I have "free" fxxk based on the commissions I give?
Too bad, my current agent is a guy.

Wild Falcon
14-03-11, 20:10
Therein lies the problem.

Paying someone millions of dollars such that money oozes of their ears without accountability or direct KPI usually leads to complacency. A person who is paid millions with money oozing out of their ears without anyone questioning their work usually slack. That is human nature. Read freakonomics. There is no incentive to strive for the best when money comes so easily.

You still havent't answered the question. Why do you need to give total domination or absolute power to one party? PAP will surely win, its just win by how much right? Absolute power and total domination is what PAP is looking for - can't even lose one seat. But is that the best for the country? Don't we want some alternative voices?

Remember absolutely power corruptes absolutely. So the question is never about changing government. It's about whether u wanna give absolute power to one party.



((df
well, I have always say those "troublemakers" are those who got nothing. When you have nothing, you have nothing to lose.

Another thing is "The devil you know is better than the devil you don't know."
PAP government is a known quantity. The opposition unknown.
My belief is that PAP government runs Singapore like a body corporate. Benefits for management and screw workers and competitors and shareholders.
Remember what does Singapore have actually? No resources. If they want to corrupt openly in the early years, corrupt 100% of a small cake is still very small and very soon country go down the drain.
Now they enlarge the cake (economy), money taken a small % (of the economy) as wages/bonuses is still more money than corrupt 100% of a small cake.
Each year, take a bit. Can last for generations. This is called sustainable farming :D
Since Singapore well being = PAP government well being, I am pretty sure my investments will only grow with time.

I am living a relatively good life. Although not UHNW, if want to retire now, can still retire. No I don't want to rock the boat.
Generally investors & businessmen don't like uncertainties.

Regulators
15-03-11, 00:21
i think what you said is too cheem for shallow people like hopeful. i think our system breeds selfishness and self-centeredness, and this is what the ruling party wants. When people are self-centered, they care more for themselves than about politics, putting their own financial or other interests as primary concerns in life, corroding away political unity and cohesion, which is what the ruling party wants. When people become scattered in thoughts and can't unite towards a single cause, it poses no threat to the ruling party.



Therein lies the problem.

Paying someone millions of dollars such that money oozes of their ears without accountability or direct KPI usually leads to complacency. A person who is paid millions with money oozing out of their ears without anyone questioning their work usually slack. That is human nature. Read freakonomics. There is no incentive to strive for the best when money comes so easily.

You still havent't answered the question. Why do you need to give total domination or absolute power to one party? PAP will surely win, its just win by how much right? Absolute power and total domination is what PAP is looking for - can't even lose one seat. But is that the best for the country? Don't we want some alternative voices?

Remember absolutely power corruptes absolutely. So the question is never about changing government. It's about whether u wanna give absolute power to one party.

hopeful
15-03-11, 07:55
i think what you said is too cheem for shallow people like hopeful. i think our system breeds selfishness and self-centeredness, and this is what the ruling party wants. When people are self-centered, they care more for themselves than about politics, putting their own financial or other interests as primary concerns in life, corroding away political unity and cohesion, which is what the ruling party wants. When people become scattered in thoughts and can't unite towards a single cause, it poses no threat to the ruling party.

i am the worst sort of fellow.
It is forgivable if the person is stupid and dont understand.
It is unforgivable if the person comprehends and understands, yet choose to ignore and choose to enrich his pockets.

Errr...what single cause are we talking about?
The business of HK is business.
so what is single cause for Singapore?

extremme
20-03-11, 22:16
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltZtnazPYp8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Slvyia lim speech in parliament questioning why e pay increase n y should ministers salary be benchmarked to private whereas they should be benchmark to other politicians as it's e same skillsets wonder wat will pap say

azeoprop
20-03-11, 22:26
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltZtnazPYp8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Slvyia lim speech in parliament questioning why e pay increase n y should ministers salary be benchmarked to private whereas they should be benchmark to other politicians as it's e same skillsets wonder wat will pap say

Haa haa all of them looking down when she was speaking....like kena scolded by teacher like that. :rolleyes:

extremme
21-03-11, 00:14
Haa haa all of them looking down when she was speaking....like kena scolded by teacher like that. :rolleyes:

haha i think they also feel what she is saying and correct and hopefully they should feel paiseh that they are earning in half a day what an average singaporean earns in a month. How to share the same vision as the average singaporean if that is the case?

extremme
21-03-11, 00:17
she said teo chee hean said the debate raised by low thia kang is wasting taxpayers time and resources and irrelevant and then she said there is a sense of deja vu cause after all the debate etc abt casino, the end result is still the same, we are going to build a casino, then isnt that the same wasting of tax payers money?

Regulators
21-03-11, 00:36
very well said...kudos to sylvia lim


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltZtnazPYp8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Slvyia lim speech in parliament questioning why e pay increase n y should ministers salary be benchmarked to private whereas they should be benchmark to other politicians as it's e same skillsets wonder wat will pap say

richwang
21-03-11, 04:23
http://www.economist.com/node/18359852

"Singapore’s competitive advantage has been good, cheap government.Singapore’s competitive advantage has been good, cheap government."

Thanks,
Richard
PS. Full disclose, I will vote for PAP Nee Soon. The MP in Nee Soon South is doing a decent job.

richwang
21-03-11, 04:36
http://www.economist.com/node/18359852

"Last year the residents of Bell, a poor Latino city of 38,000 people, found their city manager was paid $788,000 and their police chief $457,000 a year."

So managing 3.8M people would be paid USD 78M. Of course, that's the worse performer in US.

But I do see so many of my counterparty in US being over paid.

The best way is to travel around the world, you will have a more balanced views.

I am not interested in cutting ministers' pay. I am more interested in seeing more ministers like the Finance Minister. (I even support to give him special bonus for handling the finacial crisis well.)

Thanks,
Richard

eng81157
21-03-11, 05:31
http://www.economist.com/node/18359852

"Last year the residents of Bell, a poor Latino city of 38,000 people, found their city manager was paid $788,000 and their police chief $457,000 a year."

So managing 3.8M people would be paid USD 78M. Of course, that's the worse performer in US.

But I do see so many of my counterparty in US being over paid.

The best way is to travel around the world, you will have a more balanced views.

I am not interested in cutting ministers' pay. I am more interested in seeing more ministers like the Finance Minister. (I even support to give him special bonus for handling the finacial crisis well.)

Thanks,
Richard

hello, please put this in context.

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474979131159

as for your "Bell" example, it is reported the city manager ran a Ponzi scam scheme to fund his salary and is being paid more than Obama.

Going by your extrapolation, shouldn't Obama be paid like billions of dollars for managing the United States. Plus, it's counterpart, not counterparty.

Please quote more credulous claims or examples to support your arguments.

richwang
21-03-11, 10:46
First thanks for pointing out the difference of counterpart and counterparty. I always learn things from this forum.

counterpart: One that has the same functions and characteristics as another.
A counterparty (sometimes contraparty) is a legal and financial term. It means a party to a contract.

Come back to the pay for US President. I have no issue if he is paid for billions of dollars. Just check the Swiss bank accounts of his counterpart in Middle East or even India and China, you will know that is the range of the pay for the job.

But he needs to perform. Build a much more efficient gov. (if that means cut trillion dollars pension to save future generation tax payers, he needs to do it.) Provide basic health care for EVERYONE (if that means introduce more competition and generate more medical graduates, he will need to assign another billion dollar paid minister to do it. )

Rather than talking about pay cut, I would like to see them perform.

Thanks,
Richard

august
21-03-11, 11:03
http://www.economist.com/node/18359852

"Last year the residents of Bell, a poor Latino city of 38,000 people, found their city manager was paid $788,000 and their police chief $457,000 a year."

So managing 3.8M people would be paid USD 78M. Of course, that's the worse performer in US.

But I do see so many of my counterparty in US being over paid.

The best way is to travel around the world, you will have a more balanced views.

I am not interested in cutting ministers' pay. I am more interested in seeing more ministers like the Finance Minister. (I even support to give him special bonus for handling the finacial crisis well.)

Thanks,
Richard
so lets look around the world for some balance
u would probably think ppl like wen jiabao, hu jintao, or obama, or merkel etc are poor performers rite?

devilplate
21-03-11, 11:51
so lets look around the world for some balance
u would probably think ppl like wen jiabao, hu jintao, or obama, or merkel etc are poor performers rite?

i am sure we can tok alot more bad stuff abt abovementioned figures if really wants to....i hf uni frens from china toking bad about their govt.....jus listen lor:D

so far, we haf been circling ard minister's pay.....and...inflation....wat else

Wild Falcon
21-03-11, 12:22
It's interesting that even though we have only 2 oppositions, they always deliver the best speeches and insights. In short, the 2 oppositions give greater contribution than the other 82 PAP members during parliament. These PAP MPs also have a tendency to either not turn up for parliament or doze off on national TV while others are talking. Sometimes I wonder how come these MPs got the audacity to fall asleep on national TV? They only need to act hardworking during parliament and still cannot do a good job - epic fail. If anyone in the private sector doze off on national TV, sure kena fired one. This is what I call complacency to the first degree.

Maybe I have high standards. But some of these PAP MPS need to buck up a bit lah. Take a good look at the hardworking opposition MPs as a good example.


very well said...kudos to sylvia lim

ay123
21-03-11, 13:33
saw the opposition new faces on straits time. they have calibre like admin assistant, financial consultant (insurance agent lah), business consultant....with few lawyer/businessman. lets be honest, do u think this kind of quality can govern a country? how much world knowledge can a admin assistant know?:doh: i dare not risk my country's future :tsk-tsk:

eng81157
21-03-11, 13:38
First thanks for pointing out the difference of counterpart and counterparty. I always learn things from this forum.

counterpart: One that has the same functions and characteristics as another.
A counterparty (sometimes contraparty) is a legal and financial term. It means a party to a contract.

Come back to the pay for US President. I have no issue if he is paid for billions of dollars. Just check the Swiss bank accounts of his counterpart in Middle East or even India and China, you will know that is the range of the pay for the job.

But he needs to perform. Build a much more efficient gov. (if that means cut trillion dollars pension to save future generation tax payers, he needs to do it.) Provide basic health care for EVERYONE (if that means introduce more competition and generate more medical graduates, he will need to assign another billion dollar paid minister to do it. )

Rather than talking about pay cut, I would like to see them perform.

Thanks,
Richard

a free of charge english lesson, you should not use the term 'counterparty' in your original statement then since the context is entirely different from its meaning.

secondly, we should pay hu jin tao gazillions and merkel trillions of dollars for performing extraordinarily, going by your argument. however, why don't we look at how much they are being paid in reality? plus, we are talking about actual salaries being paid to the individual.

i could be outdated in my general knowledge but the last time i checked, mr manmohan singh is definitely not paid more highly than a superscale grade civil servant. fyi, his monthly pay, in 2009, is merely USD2,220/-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_India

eng81157
21-03-11, 13:44
saw the opposition new faces on straits time. they have calibre like admin assistant, financial consultant (insurance agent lah), business consultant....with few lawyer/businessman. lets be honest, do u think this kind of quality can govern a country? how much world knowledge can a admin assistant know?:doh: i dare not risk my country's future :tsk-tsk:

the last i remember, we had a bunch of scholars and doctors who bidded for the YOG and blew the budget by $300mil.

on another incident, i remembered a doctor who claimed that floods only strike orchard road once in 50 years, only to see another 2 occurences in the span of two weeks.

yet on another separate 'honest mistake', we had a whole detention centre's worth of guards, high flying superintendent, highly paid minister who let slip a terrorist and can't figure out where he went till our good neighbour - malaysia, captured him.

so what if i have a bunch of scholars, doctors, blah-blah-blah, etc.

i'm not arguing that an admin assistant would have better knowledge of governing or dealing with delicate diplomatic relations but i can definitely state that having a bunch of smart alecs ain't no guarantee either.

hopeful
21-03-11, 15:23
the last i remember, we had a bunch of scholars and doctors who bidded for the YOG and blew the budget by $300mil.

on another incident, i remembered a doctor who claimed that floods only strike orchard road once in 50 years, only to see another 2 occurences in the span of two weeks.

yet on another separate 'honest mistake', we had a whole detention centre's worth of guards, high flying superintendent, highly paid minister who let slip a terrorist and can't figure out where he went till our good neighbour - malaysia, captured him.

so what if i have a bunch of scholars, doctors, blah-blah-blah, etc.

i'm not arguing that an admin assistant would have better knowledge of governing or dealing with delicate diplomatic relations but i can definitely state that having a bunch of smart alecs ain't no guarantee either.

lets not talk about country level. How about cars and doctors?

Does people here trust no brand name workshop to service their car, or authorised dealer workshop?

Does people here choose any tom, dick, harry doctor to check up on their babies?

Wild Falcon
21-03-11, 15:26
That is when you're wrong. You always assume only government scholars are the best candidates. But these government scholars who have never worked in the private sector and has an easy path laid out for them in their ivory tower sometimes are the worst because they can never understand the plight of the ordinary people cos they have never gone through hardship or challenges in their life. That's why they keep paying themselves millions and millions and not realising your CPF return of 2.5% is the worst pension fund in the world giving the worst return. 2.5% can't even cover inflation. That's why old people still cleaning toilets and wiping tables - which is a uniquely Singapore phenomena.

PAP will always have the "best" candidates, if your idea of the best people to speak for the citizens are the government scholars with academic qualifications and looks rich to you. I know Singaporeans only judge people by their academic qualifications and wealth. But sometimes, the humble guys are the one who can represent the people best.


saw the opposition new faces on straits time. they have calibre like admin assistant, financial consultant (insurance agent lah), business consultant....with few lawyer/businessman. lets be honest, do u think this kind of quality can govern a country? how much world knowledge can a admin assistant know?:doh: i dare not risk my country's future :tsk-tsk:

wenqing
21-03-11, 15:42
saw the opposition new faces on straits time. they have calibre like admin assistant, financial consultant (insurance agent lah), business consultant....with few lawyer/businessman. lets be honest, do u think this kind of quality can govern a country? how much world knowledge can a admin assistant know?:doh: i dare not risk my country's future :tsk-tsk:

Your stereotyping of Opposition candidates are outdated and stuck in 1980s.

Base on long biased track record, whatever MSM (ST & CNA) dish out about Opposition does not represent the true and entire picture.

Please also copy and paste the article that says admin assistant, insurance agent etc.

When PAP just started, all PAP MPs were academically inclined too ??

Besides, I do not need 'talented' and 'academically smart' people to be in government who give you gaffes, inflation and high costs of living.
Their best plan for GDP growth is blindly import any type of immigrants and building vices.

All I need is a normal MP with a normal heart for people.

When most work places has ratio of 5 foreigners to 1 Singaporean, then system is crumbling.

eng81157
21-03-11, 15:52
lets not talk about country level. How about cars and doctors?

Does people here trust no brand name workshop to service their car, or authorised dealer workshop?

Does people here choose any tom, dick, harry doctor to check up on their babies?

i pay for the best. however if my car or doctor fails me, i switch. henceforth in my opinion, the hogwash of PAP antics and failure warrants a switch

eng81157
21-03-11, 15:55
That is when you're wrong. You always assume only government scholars are the best candidates. But these government scholars who have never worked in the private sector and has an easy path laid out for them in their ivory tower sometimes are the worst because they can never understand the plight of the ordinary people cos they have never gone through hardship or challenges in their life. That's why they keep paying themselves millions and millions and not realising your CPF return of 2.5% is the worst pension fund in the world giving the worst return. 2.5% can't even cover inflation. That's why old people still cleaning toilets and wiping tables - which is a uniquely Singapore phenomena.

PAP will always have the "best" candidates, if your idea of the best people to speak for the citizens are the government scholars with academic qualifications and looks rich to you. I know Singaporeans only judge people by their academic qualifications and wealth. But sometimes, the humble guys are the one who can represent the people best.

totally agree with this. a CEO, who helms a listed transport company, has the audacity to say that morning peak hours MRT carriages aren't squeezy when she hasn't been on board one personally.

an example of a 'best' candidate displaying capabilities and empathy for 'mere mortals' like me? i think not

hopeful
21-03-11, 16:05
totally agree with this. a CEO, who helms a listed transport company, has the audacity to say that morning peak hours MRT carriages aren't squeezy when she hasn't been on board one personally.

an example of a 'best' candidate displaying capabilities and empathy for 'mere mortals' like me? i think not
err...isn't the function of MRT is to transport as many people within the shortest time. If it means comfort or each seat for individuals has to be sacrificed.
Isn't it more efficient to squeeze 100 people into 1 train rather than 100 people into 2 trains? By that measure, isn't MRT efficient?

I think what that CEO means is that Singapore MRT is not as squeezy as Japan's, we still have room for improvement ie, we can squeeze more people in.

If want comfort and lots of personal space, then has to pay more by taking taxi. There are always options to suit each traveller's preference and budget.

august
21-03-11, 16:06
saw the opposition new faces on straits time. they have calibre like admin assistant, financial consultant (insurance agent lah), business consultant....with few lawyer/businessman. lets be honest, do u think this kind of quality can govern a country? how much world knowledge can a admin assistant know?:doh: i dare not risk my country's future :tsk-tsk:
let's compare some real life examples.

take Lim Hng kiang the pap minister. He is the top scholar of his cohort, whose supposed brilliance is beyond doubt.

take chiam see tong, at best a very average achiever... heard he failed his O or is it A levels.

lim hng kiang as minister sets policy, while chiam as a district MP is a proven municipal administrator but has no influence over national policies.

One is fast tracked onto position of prominence and great influence, but if u stop paying him millions in salaries will he quit public office? meanwhile the municipal administrator struggles against all odds in a completely one-sided and unjust political environment just to retain his MP seat... others like him paid even higher price for speaking up and challenging the pap system.

so where does their hearts truly lie?

actually in a 1st world political environment, someone like chiam who can inspire would have been a minister, while lim clearly not cut out to be a politician, will be a bureaucrat administrator, a top notch one no less.
:2cents:

eng81157
21-03-11, 16:40
err...isn't the function of MRT is to transport as many people within the shortest time. If it means comfort or each seat for individuals has to be sacrificed.
Isn't it more efficient to squeeze 100 people into 1 train rather than 100 people into 2 trains? By that measure, isn't MRT efficient?

I think what that CEO means is that Singapore MRT is not as squeezy as Japan's, we still have room for improvement ie, we can squeeze more people in.

If want comfort and lots of personal space, then has to pay more by taking taxi. There are always options to suit each traveller's preference and budget.

mrt packed to the point where nobody can board isn't squeezy???
i've been to tokyo couple of times and taken the subway during peak periods and trust me, i doubt what's in Singapore is that far off as compared to on a JR or Shinkasen line.

by the way, we aren't discussing about paying for travel comfort. my example goes to show that even with the most 'brilliant' of the lot is helming the reins, if he or she can't feel for mere mortals then it's just policy and decision making in an ivory tower and losing touch on issues on the ground

hopeful
21-03-11, 16:47
totally agree with this. a CEO, who helms a listed transport company, has the audacity to say that morning peak hours MRT carriages aren't squeezy when she hasn't been on board one personally.

an example of a 'best' candidate displaying capabilities and empathy for 'mere mortals' like me? i think not

Did she specifically mentioned that she hasn't been on board one personally?
I remember this case of a minister checking bus services which was reported in the newspaper. The forummers made a hoohar out of it, saying that if want to spot check, should travel incognito.

eng81157
21-03-11, 16:59
Did she specifically mentioned that she hasn't been on board one personally?
I remember this case of a minister checking bus services which was reported in the newspaper. The forummers made a hoohar out of it, saying that if want to spot check, should travel incognito.

whether she did mention if she was on board one personally, it is not reported in the press. however, what is reported in the press is that MRT carriages aren't squeezy in the morning peak hours. go try taking one at jurong east or bedok between 8-9am, 6-7pm and tell me if it's squeezy.

i don't need a rocket scientist to tell me the right answer.

as for the minister checking on bus services, please don't tell me it isn't a media hogwash. please don't tell me it's reality TV in its truest form. please don't tell me there ain't no reporters or TV crew or some comms rep around to sweeten the whole event. please don't tell me SBS or SMRT wasn't given a heads up on the pending check and there wasn't any preparation. please don't tell me you believe wholeheartedly the entire media event is without any bugaloo

hopeful
21-03-11, 17:16
whether she did mention if she was on board one personally, it is not reported in the press. however, what is reported in the press is that MRT carriages aren't squeezy in the morning peak hours. go try taking one at jurong east or bedok between 8-9am, 6-7pm and tell me if it's squeezy.

i don't need a rocket scientist to tell me the right answer.

as for the minister checking on bus services, please don't tell me it isn't a media hogwash. please don't tell me it's reality TV in its truest form. please don't tell me there ain't no reporters or TV crew or some comms rep around to sweeten the whole event. please don't tell me SBS or SMRT wasn't given a heads up on the pending check and there wasn't any preparation. please don't tell me you believe wholeheartedly the entire media event is without any bugaloo

Are you guilty of falsehood by telling people here that she hasn't been on one when you don't know whether or not she has or has not been on one?

Why make the accusation that she has no empathy for common folks or live in ivory tower?

Yes, as for minister checking on bus services, IMO, that is a media event. No arguments with you there.

as for feeling squeezy, it is a matter of perception.
1) I observed that the middle of the train, is relatively less crowded, people usually crowd around the doors.
2) The feeling of squeeziness can be induced when one's personal space is being intruded upon. As an example, rural people will feel more squeezy than city folks in a train. Perhaps you have a bigger personal space? (not attacking you here).
Perhaps somebody can suggest to SMRT to have parametrics for squeeziness. ie how many people in a carriage to be considered squeezy.

one observation to make: why doesn't anybody complain about being crowded in a lift, but usually you will find many complains about being crowded in buses, trains.:beats-me-man:

Regulators
21-03-11, 17:18
You don't need an mp to be paid 2-3 million to do a good job at nee soon, I suggest you organise a tour to Astrid Hill to see the kind of lifestyle your mp is living from taxpayers money, carry out a survey about what all residents in nee soon think after that. No mp who is obscenely paid from taxpayers money can appreciate what poor folks on the ground have to go through everyday.
http://www.economist.com/node/18359852

"Singapore’s competitive advantage has been good, cheap government.Singapore’s competitive advantage has been good, cheap government."

Thanks,
Richard
PS. Full disclose, I will vote for PAP Nee Soon. The MP in Nee Soon South is doing a decent job.

extremme
21-03-11, 17:26
Are you guilty of falsehood by telling people here that she hasn't been on one when you don't know whether or not she has or has not been on one?

Why make the accusation that she has no empathy for common folks or live in ivory tower?

Yes, as for minister checking on bus services, IMO, that is a media event. No arguments with you there.

as for feeling squeezy, it is a matter of perception.
1) I observed that the middle of the train, is relatively less crowded, people usually crowd around the doors.
2) The feeling of squeeziness can be induced when one's personal space is being intruded upon. As an example, rural people will feel more squeezy than city folks in a train. Perhaps you have a bigger personal space? (not attacking you here).
Perhaps somebody can suggest to SMRT to have parametrics for squeeziness. ie how many people in a carriage to be considered squeezy.

one observation to make: why doesn't anybody complain about being crowded in a lift, but usually you will find many complains about being crowded in buses, trains.:beats-me-man:
Have u sat on an MRT train during peak hours? Or, will you be one of those fortunate few who drive (still gena bad traffic jams also)

I drive to work. But on one of those rare occasions when I had to take train back, i was shocked at how squeezy the train was, during peak hours. When I asked my colleague about the squeeze, they said its normal now which greatly surprised me. When I took MRT on a regular basis few years, it was squeezy but not that bad. Now, with the influx of foreign talents, it is really very squeezy and bad. And best part is, transport fares still keep increasing but doenst alleviate this fundamental problem

ay123
21-03-11, 17:29
let's compare some real life examples.

take Lim Hng kiang the pap minister. He is the top scholar of his cohort, whose supposed brilliance is beyond doubt.

take chiam see tong, at best a very average achiever... heard he failed his O or is it A levels.

lim hng kiang as minister sets policy, while chiam as a district MP is a proven municipal administrator but has no influence over national policies.

One is fast tracked onto position of prominence and great influence, but if u stop paying him millions in salaries will he quit public office? meanwhile the municipal administrator struggles against all odds in a completely one-sided and unjust political environment just to retain his MP seat... others like him paid even higher price for speaking up and challenging the pap system.

so where does their hearts truly lie?

actually in a 1st world political environment, someone like chiam who can inspire would have been a minister, while lim clearly not cut out to be a politician, will be a bureaucrat administrator, a top notch one no less.
:2cents:

i am not saying all opposition is bad. of course there are good one. Sylvia is one of them. what i mean is to govern a country is not jus to be able to feel the poor and help the poor. the leader must also has business sense to bring prosperous to the country. when country progress, then the country has the mean to tackle the issue right. everyone know that there is no one policy that can satisfy everyone. whichever policy the first priority must be to bring the country to the next level and generate more revenue. handling the "unhappy" will be the secondary.
spore know education is the best investment. does govt not do their means to make sure every sporen receive adequate education? does HDB chase you out of your house when u cannot afford to pay the housing loan? isnt these some measure that govt is helping the poor?

ay123
21-03-11, 17:34
so all the discussion still point to one thing - minister is too highly paid. so can i say that if the minister is paid the same as neighbouring country. they are good minister that done a good job. so the problem is not of capability.....is about $$$$

wenqing
21-03-11, 17:40
I think this topic is about Singapore government being grossly overpaid and too expensive to sustain in long run with the small population. Full stop.

Like any other salaried employee, whether Ministers are paid less or more, they should still do their best instead of linking salaries to capabilities.

Ministers are not kids and they join public service with eyes wide open.

If money is their only motivation, they can and should always look for a new job like everyone else.

Singapore government is not a organisation base on individuals but an organisation base on system.

ay123
21-03-11, 17:44
lets be honest. if the opposition win and take over the power, will they scrap the million $ system and be paid only a token???

wenqing
21-03-11, 17:50
lets be honest. if the opposition win and take over the power, will they scrap the million $ system and be paid only a token???

Worker's Party, SDP , NSP and RP had already make their stand clearly long ago using different system of pegging pay.

It is all in their manifestos.

If you do not read enough and go around asking ignorant questions and making baseless assumptons, it can make you look silly.

Your type of questioning, invalid worse comparisions and baseless assumptions will not help you win arguments.


http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=1587614

Regulators
21-03-11, 17:51
Very simple, our ministers just want to have the cake and eat it, they want the best of a secured cushy job and be paid like a ceo who has to stick the neck out on the chopping board constantly. Mps in singapore are so sheltered, just look at how wong kan seng was defended when mas selamat escaped. In democracies like England, it is the minister that bears the brunt under ministerial responsibility but in singapore, it is always the lowly paid workers below that have to be answerable.
I think this topic is about Singapore government being grossly overpaid and too expensive to sustain in long run with the small population. Full stop.

Like any other salaried employee, whether Ministers are paid less or more, they should still do their best instead of linking salaries to capabilities.

Ministers are not kids and they join public service with eyes wide open.

If money is their only motivation, they can and should always look for a new job like everyone else.

Singapore government is not a organisation base on individuals but an organisation base on system.

devilplate
21-03-11, 17:51
lets be honest. if the opposition win and take over the power, will they scrap the million $ system and be paid only a token???

i like dat....worse if they intro pension scheme....jobless claims benefits etc...I DUNWAN TO FEED MAGGOTS:scared-3:

wenqing
21-03-11, 17:53
i like dat....worse if they intro pension scheme....jobless claims benfefits etc...I DUNWAN TO FEED MAGGOTS


Since you like a question, please find the answer then that says other political parties will maintain status quo about government salaries.

If you cannot find, you are just liking a baseless assumption and a question with no answer.

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=1571953

devilplate
21-03-11, 17:53
Worker's Party, SDP , NSP and RP had already make their stand clearly long ago using different system of pegging pay.

It is all in their manifestos.

If you do not read enough and go around asking ignorant questions and making baseless assumptons, it can make you look silly.

Your type of questioning, invalid worse comparisions and baseless assumptions will not help you win arguments.


http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=1587614

anything can change....policies/regulations/promises changes....

wenqing
21-03-11, 17:55
anything can change....policies/regulations/promises changes....

Do not make excuses for own ignorance.

If that is the case, you are telling me whatever promises and statements PAP make can change also like nobody's business ??

devilplate
21-03-11, 17:55
Since you like a question, please find the answer then that says other political parties will maintain status quo about government salaries.

If you cannot find, you are just liking a baseless assumption and a question with no answer.

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=1571953

wat opposition r doing now is questioning mah....y not?

dun like it...jus ignore lor....hehe....

devilplate
21-03-11, 17:56
Do not make excuses for own ignorance.

If that is the case, you are telling me whatever promises and statements PAP make can change also like nobody's business ??

yes...anything changes....everyone got hidden agenda....dun come here and bullshyt la...hahaha

tok so much only contribute to a VOTE....somemore tell me dun assume u will vote for opposition:tongue3:

wenqing
21-03-11, 17:56
wat opposition r doing now is questioning mah....y not?

dun like it...jus ignore lor....hehe....

Waste of time you are.

devilplate
21-03-11, 17:58
later opposition wins over and everytime use: burden lies on readers/buyers and not agents/buyers/writers.....buy and do anything at ur own risk....kaoz....scary sia....:scared-4: :doh: :tongue3:

ay123
21-03-11, 17:59
Worker's Party, SDP , NSP and RP had already make their stand clearly long ago using different system of pegging pay.

It is all in their manifestos.

If you do not read enough and go around asking ignorant questions and making baseless assumptons, it can make you look silly.

Your type of questioning, invalid worse comparisions and baseless assumptions will not help you win arguments.


http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=1587614

cut the crap. i am asking a honest question. will u if you are opposition, give up yr million $ and receive $10k per mth??? i will not becos i am not so great

devilplate
21-03-11, 17:59
Waste of time you are.

tell me more?? anymore?

ay123
21-03-11, 18:04
I think this topic is about Singapore government being grossly overpaid and too expensive to sustain in long run with the small population. Full stop.

Like any other salaried employee, whether Ministers are paid less or more, they should still do their best instead of linking salaries to capabilities.

Ministers are not kids and they join public service with eyes wide open.

If money is their only motivation, they can and should always look for a new job like everyone else.

Singapore government is not a organisation base on individuals but an organisation base on system.

u already said. is abt govt highly paid and not abt their capability. i would rather have a million $ minister that can generate multimillion $ for country than to have a lowly paid minister who always go to the commoner and play hero but bring in nothing for the country. they should join charity and give direct help instead...

Regulators
21-03-11, 18:11
If I run a company earning millions, I would happily take up the role of mp for just 10k a month. after all I know I am doing it to serve people, not my self interest. My self interest can be served from my business, but never using taxpayers money to serve my self interest.
cut the crap. i am asking a honest question. will u if you are opposition, give up yr million $ and receive $10k per mth??? i will not becos i am not so great

devilplate
21-03-11, 18:12
If I run a company earning millions, I would happily take up the role of mp for just 10k a month. after all I know I am doing it to serve people, not my self interest. My self interest can be served from my business, but never using taxpayers money to serve my self interest.

u oredi say IF leh...

how many of those opposition having million dollar biz outside?

Regulators
21-03-11, 18:38
Was actually referring to current mps already making millions outside politics and still ducking millions out of taxpayers, you should know which are the mps
u oredi say IF leh...

how many of those opposition having million dollar biz outside?

eng81157
21-03-11, 18:51
Are you guilty of falsehood by telling people here that she hasn't been on one when you don't know whether or not she has or has not been on one?

Why make the accusation that she has no empathy for common folks or live in ivory tower?

Yes, as for minister checking on bus services, IMO, that is a media event. No arguments with you there.

as for feeling squeezy, it is a matter of perception.
1) I observed that the middle of the train, is relatively less crowded, people usually crowd around the doors.
2) The feeling of squeeziness can be induced when one's personal space is being intruded upon. As an example, rural people will feel more squeezy than city folks in a train. Perhaps you have a bigger personal space? (not attacking you here).
Perhaps somebody can suggest to SMRT to have parametrics for squeeziness. ie how many people in a carriage to be considered squeezy.

one observation to make: why doesn't anybody complain about being crowded in a lift, but usually you will find many complains about being crowded in buses, trains.:beats-me-man:

falsehood?? what kinda falsehood did i perpetuate? read my statements carefully - i mentioned it is not reported as whether she has been on one.

go read up on the news report and see if it fits what's happening on the ground and it is clear that there's no empathy in her statement. it's not an accusation, i stand by my remarks. it's as clear as if you can say that i'm stone cold when i pass by a beggar and mock at him for being poor.

anyway, this is not about taking public transport. please don't stray from the main thread of argument

eng81157
21-03-11, 18:57
u already said. is abt govt highly paid and not abt their capability. i would rather have a million $ minister that can generate multimillion $ for country than to have a lowly paid minister who always go to the commoner and play hero but bring in nothing for the country. they should join charity and give direct help instead...

reiterating my previous point, so how much should we pay wen jiabao? angela merkel? aren't they bringing in the dole for the country?

it's not about being highly paid. it's about ZERO governance and accountability. how on earth can my president get a raise of 27% and the parliament does not debate about it while my minister makes a big hooha about giving a measly $30 increase per month to the poor and needy?

if i'm a shareholder in a company, i get to have a say and cast my vote whether to increase the directors', CEO's fees. was the recent pay increase debated? zlich. go figure which is acceptable.

devilplate
21-03-11, 18:57
can admin shift this thread to coffeshop talk?

august
21-03-11, 19:01
so all the discussion still point to one thing - minister is too highly paid. so can i say that if the minister is paid the same as neighbouring country. they are good minister that done a good job. so the problem is not of capability.....is about $$$$
eh? isnt this thread is about their obscene salaries?

the problem with the pap system now is it is an entrenched system where they have virtually eliminated political competition through questionable and unconstitutional means. This is the 1st thing that should set alarm bells ringing.

Throw in out-of-the-world salaries and u wonder what kind of people are they attracting into public service? do these people truly have their hearts in public service? or is it for the $$$$? are they fronting for an inner circle? are they all on the take?? there simply is no independent checks and balance to the system to know.

Finally, there is no moral justification behind the whole thing. anyone with half a head of common sense and objectivity knows this. No matter how hard some people try to spin it, it is still just GREED and abuse of public funds.



Here is another incredible example. Last month, when MPs asked for caregivers to be given an allowance in the budget debate, the health minister who is paid millions responded "I believe paying caregivers to provide care giving is an insult... it cheapens the sacrifice they are making." Hahahaha! Complete, utter hypocrisy! :spliff:

devilplate
21-03-11, 19:04
Here is another incredible example. Last month, when MPs asked for caregivers to be given an allowance in the budget debate, the health minister who is paid millions responded "I believe paying caregivers to provide care giving is an insult... it cheapens the sacrifice they are making." Hahahaha! Complete, utter hypocrisy! :spliff:

haha interesting...

mabe he means....allowance(small sum) insulting la....shd give million dollar allowance mah for their contribution to the society:D

august
21-03-11, 19:05
haha interesting...

mabe he means....allowance(small sum) insulting la....shd give million dollar allowance mah for their contribution to the society:D

i notice u like to troll and defend the indefensible :spliff:

devilplate
21-03-11, 19:08
$$ is the root of all evil?

OR

not enough $$ is the root of all evil?

this yr seems to have quite a fair bit of opposition hor....interesting:rolleyes:

devilplate
21-03-11, 19:10
i notice u like to troll and defend the indefensible :spliff:

defend nobody.....every man for himself!!:hell-hath-no-fury:

jus making cute cute comments.....SMILE:D :cheers6:

Regulators
21-03-11, 19:35
so it means the president and pap mps should also be for themselves? Them it gives people a clear reason to vote them out
defend nobody.....every man for himself!!:hell-hath-no-fury:

jus making cute cute comments.....SMILE:D :cheers6:

amk
21-03-11, 20:04
jus making cute cute comments.....SMILE:D :cheers6:

See that didn't work.

Ok how about this:

Yes guys we agreed whole heartedly PAP is shit. And all are incredibly overpaid.

Is every one happy now ?

Now shall we get back to the 2011 sentiment thread ? Now a perm sec openly said measures working wor. So where is MBT when we need him ? ;)

wenqing
21-03-11, 20:09
cut the crap. i am asking a honest question. will u if you are opposition, give up yr million $ and receive $10k per mth??? i will not becos i am not so great

You cannot read and understand English?

I already replied you that your question was answered long ago and many times by other parties in their manifestoes.

The other parties objected to the payscale.

You yourself do not mind does not mean entire Singapore do not mind.

You yourself just admitted you have character deficiency.

wenqing
21-03-11, 20:29
u already said. is abt govt highly paid and not abt their capability. i would rather have a million $ minister that can generate multimillion $ for country than to have a lowly paid minister who always go to the commoner and play hero but bring in nothing for the country. they should join charity and give direct help instead...

Who is talking about lowly paid minister here ??

Did anyone here say Ministers who get lower pay = hero for commoners and bring nothing to country ??

Your examples are really funny and no logic.

You really think you are royalty and elite ??

Do you understand the definition of lowly paid in Singapore ??

$500 to $2000 a month, that is lowly paid.

You talk about bringing money in for the country. Please elaborate.

Which Singaporean here is not working and bringing in money for the country ??

Or you are talking about generating millions for government ??

Raising taxes, lowering subsidies, making Singaporeans pay above market value for everything, making Singaporeans be in lifetime debts is generating millions for Singapore ??

Do you know spending on healthcare by government is getting lower and lower each year ?? Basically only 1% of GDP is spent on healthcare.

Even public hospitals are no longer affordable anymore.

The government tries to push everything to private insurance and families to take care of elderly.



Do we need highest paid and 'talented' government to think of such simple stuff ??

Who benefits from generating all these millions ?? Singaporeans or government ??

In your logic, the entire world leaders are underpaid since their GDP is much higher than Singapore and quality of life is much better.

Why you never mention all the billions lost by GIC and Temasek too ??

Since you will vote for government who generate millions, so you will vote against government who lost billions ??

We all agree Minister getting highest salary in the world for Singapore is overpaid and unsustainable.

In 2007, the government need to raise GST from 3% to 7% then can be highest paid government in the world.

Now 2011, they raise their pay by another 30%, so GST will increase again.

Paying Singapore leaders 6 times more than the entire world combine is grossly overpaid for such a small country.

We do not mind paying high pay for good performance but we do mind overpaying especially when leaders refuse to be accountable, responsible and have transparency for mishaps.

When the banks collapse one by one at 2009, did all those 'talent' do anything to save the banks ?? Nope, the 'talents' just milk the people's money dry and get their fat bonuses.

I think you should stop posting, the more you post, the more juvenile and ignorant you sound.

romeo
22-03-11, 00:30
kudos to sylvia lim for standing up against mps' pay rise!!

this is the last straw for me.. sicken by president allowance rise by so much w/o anyone saying nothing..

n mps getting grossly overpaid.. also w/o the rest of pap mps saying nothing..

while tens of dollars for welfare kana beaten left right centre..

i actually think some pap mps wana say something abt the payrise but dare not.. they scare next GE, small lee kick them out.. :D

Regulators
22-03-11, 00:53
KNN the best part is he tiam tiam when parliament propose his pay rise, buay pai seh at all. He should simply just reject it and tell parliament to use the surplus funds for some better social cause. So many people in Singapore in need of help and they unshamedly just raise their allowances without blessing from the electorate, just the blessings of their own kind. I can't believe there are still people in this forum that put these shameless people high up on the pedestal. :doh: :doh: :doh:



this is the last straw for me.. sicken by president allowance rise by so much w/o anyone saying nothing..

eng81157
22-03-11, 06:02
KNN the best part is he tiam tiam when parliament propose his pay rise, buay pai seh at all. He should simply just reject it and tell parliament to use the surplus funds for some better social cause. So many people in Singapore in need of help and they unshamedly just raise their allowances without blessing from the electorate, just the blessings of their own kind. I can't believe there are still people in this forum that put these shameless people high up on the pedestal. :doh: :doh: :doh:

MPs ask hawkers not to raise food prices - big press article, print stickers, make a big hooha.
MPs propose to raise president's annual pay by $900k - tiny little article which you will probably miss it if you didn't pay close attention when reading.

hopeful
22-03-11, 08:50
KNN the best part is he tiam tiam when parliament propose his pay rise, buay pai seh at all. He should simply just reject it and tell parliament to use the surplus funds for some better social cause. So many people in Singapore in need of help and they unshamedly just raise their allowances without blessing from the electorate, just the blessings of their own kind. I can't believe there are still people in this forum that put these shameless people high up on the pedestal. :doh: :doh: :doh:

aren't these role models for us?
Work smart and study smart. Be a scholar. and your pays the sky's limit.
so no more playing computer games. Hit the books. Broaden your general knowledge. Get into leadership positions in school/university clubs. Make sure it is the right club also, like uniformed groups and not some gardening club. Once you be a government scholar, you are set for life. Of course, best is President's Scholar, but SAF scholar also can.
"Why should I be ashamed of my salary if I am worth it?"

wenqing
22-03-11, 10:57
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=3132114



http://theonlinecitizen.com/2011/03/gdp-bonus-lots-of-dollar-but-no-sense/



Pay us or your women will become maids!

Andrew Loh

After dishing out the goodies to Singaporeans, ministers are rewarding themselves with the biggest goody of all.

“Mr Teo yesterday revealed that because of the ‘exceptionally high’ growth in gross domestic product (GDP) last year, senior officials, including ministers, will receive the maximum GDP-linked bonus, which ‘accounts for a maximum of about ¼ of the annual salary of senior officers, or eight months’.”

– Straits Times, 3 March 2011, reporting the announcement by Minister in charge of the Civil Service and Deputy Prime Minister, Mr Teo Chee Hean, of a bigger pay packet for “top public servants” this year.

Whenever salaries of ministers are “revised” upwards, criticisms of this flow thick and fast. This happened in 2007 as well, when salaries for ministers were raised by some 60 per cent. Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew lambasted Singaporeans for criticizing the increase then:

“I say you have no sense of proportion; you don’t know what life is about. The cure to all this talk is really a good dose of incompetent government. You get that alternative, and you’ll never put Singapore together again.” (New York Times)

“Lee senior told the Straits Times on Thursday… that it is “absurd” for Singaporeans to quarrel about ministerial pay and warned that Singapore would suffer if the government could not pay competitive salaries.

“Your security will be at risk and our women will become maids in other people’s countries,” he said. (CNN)

Well, that’s MM Lee – who lives in the “real world”. Or so he claims. (Reuters)

Whatever the PAP Government’s reasons for rewarding itself a eight-month bonus this time, it is an excessive amount, by any measure. How the Government arrived at this figure of eight months has never been explained. It seems almost an arbitrary number plucked out of thin air.

The justification Mr Teo gives for this latest revision is simply because the GDP is expected to grow 14.5 per cent this year – which, according to the formula for salaries, merits a bonus of eight months since GDP growth exceeds the threshold 10 per cent.

How much have salaries for ministers increased since 1994, when the formula for pegging ministers’ pay to the private sector was first mooted? In 1994, the Prime Minister’s salary was S$1.15 million. Currently, his salary is S$3.76 million – an increase of about S$2.6 million in 16 years.

It is unclear if the PM gets rewarded with a GDP Bonus but his ministers do.



8 months bonuses – justified?

I think Singaporeans will recall the many failings of some ministers these past few years – including the Prime Minister himself.

Lets look at some of these individual ministers and their failings and consider if these ministers deserve an eight-month bonus.

DPM Wong Kan Seng



His failures are epic. The almost comical simplicity of Mas Selamat’s escape from Singapore’s Internal Security Department’s grasp is well remembered by one and all. Yet, instead of taking full responsibility and resign, DPM Wong instead pointed the finger – audaciously, I might add – at the lower rungs in his ministry. Yet, this is not his only failure with regards to Mas Selamat. His ministry failed to arrest Mas Selamat not once but twice. And both times after the man has escaped, it was our neighbouring countries which re-captured the suspect and handed him over to Singapore.

Another failure of DPM Wong is in raising Singapore’s birth rate. DPM Wong oversees the National Population and Talent Division, charged with arresting the declining procreation rate. It was reported recently that our Total Fertility Rate has dropped to a record low of 1.16, one of the lowest in the world.

Vivian Balakrishnan, Minister MCYS



Another minister with epic failures to his name. From the quadrupling of the budget for the Youth Olympic Games, which went from its original S$104 million to S$387 million, to the number of homeless people camped out in parks all over Singapore, Dr Balakrishnan seemed oblivious to these. Here is a minister who would argue – quite ridiculously – with his fellow PAP MP in Parliament over an extra S$1 a day for those on Public Assistance – the old, poor, sick – but who thinks nothing of splashing almost S$400 million on a sports event. Indeed, he “admitted three times” that he got the YOG budget wrong.

As for the homeless, instead of similarly admitting that he “got it wrong” and that his finger wasn’t on the pulse, he went to Parliament and ridiculed a homeless couple and “irresponsible websites” which brought the matter to his attention!

Raymond Lim, Minister of Transport



If any minister was sleeping on his job, Raymond Lim is he. The crowded MRT trains seem to have caught the minister by surprise. Apparently, he woke up to the problem late, at which time commuters were already suffering the results of his slumber. Even today, the trains are packed, and nothing effective seems to have been done to improve the situation. Audaciously, SMRT’s Chief Executive Saw Phaik Hwa laid the blame squarely on commuters – “People can board the trains. It is whether they want to,” she said last year. Mr Lim kept his silence instead of admonishing the good CEO.

What about Mr Lim’s solution to traffic jams on the roads? Install more Electronic Road Pricing gantries, and increase the fees. That seems to be his only solution – which in any case, does not seem to alleviate the problem, especially during peak hours.

Yaacob Ibrahim, Environment and Water Works Minister



When many areas in Singapore were flooded in November 2009, Mr Yaacob famously said this “occurs once every 50 years”. As it turned out, that wasn’t true. The following months in 2010 saw massive floodings all over Singapore, the most noteworthy was the one at Orchard Road. Mr Yaacob and his lieutenants then blamed it on “choked drains”, and of course, ultimately laid the responsibility on Singaporeans.

Mah Bow Tan, National Development Minister



There is no need to elaborate too much on Mr Mah’s “accomplishments” these last few years. I think the results speak for themselves. He allowed housing prices to escalate before making a show of introducing “cooling measures” to try and rein in prices – all of which have failed, even until today.

Certainly, this is one minister who does not, by any stretch of the imagination, deserve an eight-month bonus.

Khaw Boon Wan, Health Minister

Mr Khaw proved to everyone that he truly lived in the Ivory Tower when he declared, rather gleefully, how he had to pay only S$8 out of his pocket for his bypass surgery in 2010. He was trying to show that healthcare in Singapore is cheap and affordable. The truth is that more and more Singaporeans, especially the elderly ones, are going overseas for treatment and to fill prescriptions because they can’t afford to do so in Singapore.

And I dare say that, contrary to what the minister tried to portray, no one in Singapore pays S$8 for a major surgery. Not any average Singaporean anyway.

Lee Kuan Yew



What can one say about this Old Mascot? From dissing leaders of our neighbouring countries, to casting doubts on Singaporean Muslims’ religious practice, the man is, surely, past his prime. His Government Investment Corporation of Singapore (GIC) lost more than S$50 billion in investments. No one knows what goes on in that secret agency. As someone who claims to have handed the reins of power over to the younger leaders, MM Lee seem to love hogging the limelight and is in the news more than any other minister, releasing so many books which claim to tell the “Singapore story”, and provide “hard truths to keep Singapore going”. Seems his preoccupation is to write books and preach from his bully pulpit. As he himself has said several times, he is no longer in charge, he is “not so quick on the uptake”, and he doesn’t even spend as much time in the office as he did previously.

These are some examples of ministers who, in spite of major failings, are going to receive eight months worth of GDP bonuses running into the millions of dollars of taxpayers’ money.

There is a moral issue in this obscene – lets call a spade a spade – eight-months bonus for ministers. Can you or should you enrich yourself in such a blatantly despicable manner when so many Singaporeans are still struggling to cope, when job security is no longer assured, when Singaporeans are told to brace themselves for record inflation this year, and when retirement is no longer something Singaporeans can look forward to with gladness? And when Singapore has the second highest income-inequality gap in the world?

Also, when the performance of the current government leaves much to be desired, as can be seen in its many failures of the last few years, is GDP growth the only yardstick which matters? After the elections, the government could very well import another million foreign workers. GDP growth would double to 30 per cent. And ministers could reward themselves with another eight months worth of bonuses.

Simply using GDP growth as a yardstick is quite stupid, really. It makes no sense whatsoever.

In the 2004 Parliamentary exchange with NCMP Steve Chia, PM Lee Hsien Loong said:

“The Member’s implicit question is: are the Ministers enriching themselves again? And the answer is, we are going on market terms and, if anything, we are paying below what the market is.”

Well, if ministers were assessed on their performance in “the market” (ie, the private sector), it is not improbable that at least some of them would have been fired long ago, let alone be given such obscenegenerous bonuses.

One can only hope that the Prime Minister remembers and heeds his own words in 2006:

“We must not allow ourselves to be divided between haves and have-nots, or winners and loser. If we let a politics of envy drive a wedge between us, our society will be destroyed, and all will suffer. That must never happen.”

Finance Minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam in his Budget 2011 speech declared that the government will raise workers’ salaries by 30 per cent in the next 10 years.

Ministers, on the other hand, will now receive a 30 per cent increase in total remuneration with just a stroke of the pen. In fact, with just a few words in Parliament and the dirty deed is done.

wenqing
22-03-11, 11:12
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=3020100&page=3


http://siewkumhong.blogspot.com/2007/03/how-many-portions-of-help-sir.html

This article from today's edition of TODAY (http://www.todayonline.com/articles/180701.asp) talks about Singapore's version of a welfare scheme. Welfare-fearing rhetoric from our leaders aside, Singapore is not so heartless that we don't have any welfare schemes at all -- we do.

It's called the Public Assistance scheme (http://www.mcys.gov.sg/web/serv_E_PA.html). There are only about 3,000 households are on it. I am not sure if that's because there are only 3,000 households that need this kind of assistance, or because of the stringency of the eligibility requirements, viz. Singapore citizens who (a) are unable to work owing to old age, illness or unfavourable family circumstances; AND (b) have no means of subsistence and no family members to depend on. (underlining added)

There is a cash grant component to it, with the amounts on a sliding scale depending on household size and the number of adults and children in the household. A single-adult household is currently given $260 per month, but this number is due to rise to $290 per month.

I don't think the PA scheme was very widely-known outside of the social assistance/welfare sector, at least not until a recent exchange in Parliament between MP Lily Neo and Mr Sin Boon Ann on one side, and Minister Vivian Balakrishnan on the other, that was quite widely reported in the media.

For background, Dr Neo had earlier done a rough survey of her constituents on PA, and discovered that a fair proportion of the single adults on PA had to skip at least one meal a day to get by on $260 per month. By her estimate, a single-adult household on PA actually needed about $400 per month to get by. She had filed a PQ on it in February that was not fully discussed due to time, and also because it preceded the COS debate on MCYS and so the response given to her was "wait for the Budget debate".

I can do no better than to direct you to the TODAY article, and to reproduce the relevant exchanges in Parliament below. As for me, I think $290 per month is disgraceful. At the very least, as pointed out by SPS Amy Khor in the TODAY article, the ministry needs to justify that figure and reconcile it with Dr Neo's $400 figure.





Dr Lily Neo: Sir, I want to check with the Minister again when he said on the strict criteria on the entitlement for PA recipients. May I ask him what is his definition of "subsistence living"? Am I correct to say that, out of $260 per month for PA recipients, $100 goes to rental, power supply and S&C and leaving them with only $5 a day to live on? Am I correct to say that any basic meal in any hawker centre is already $2.50 to $3.00 per meal? Therefore, is it too much to ask for just three meals a day as an entitlement for the PA recipients?

Dr Vivian Balakrishnan: How much do you want? Do you want three meals in a hawker centre, food court or restaurant?

Dr Lily Neo: It is cheaper to cook for one person.


http://siewkumhong.blogspot.com/2007/04/speech-on-ministerial-statement-on.html

Perspectives

Sir, Singaporeans have been asked to put some perspective around the current $45.5 million for the political appointees, being 0.13% of government expenditure and 0.022% of our GDP.

I think there are some other perspectives that can be put around these numbers.

At the revised MR4 benchmark of $1.6 million per year, a minister who serves a full five-year term would have made $8 million.

Serve two terms, and that becomes $16 million plus a pension. Even if the minister spends a million dollars a year, there would still be $6 million left over for a retirement in style.

Meanwhile, Workfare will cost the Government $400 million a year. But it is intended to benefit the bottom 15% of the workforce.

In 2005, we had 2.36 million workers. The bottom 15% means 354,000 workers.

Workfare will cost over 7 times of the aggregate revised salaries of political appointees, but benefits 10,000 times the number of political appointees we have.

Or let’s take Public Assistance. MCYS recently announced a revision to the amounts that Public Assistance recipients will get.

Some Members felt that the amounts are still not enough, especially for one-member households.

Dr Lily Neo has calculated that a minimum of $400 per month was needed by such households, yet the revised rate for them is $290 per month.

With 3,000 households on Public Assistance, an across-the-board increase of $110 per month would mean an additional expenditure of $3.96 million a year – 7% of the amounts that we will pay political appointees every year after the revisions.

Yet, we decline to do so, fearing an erosion of Singaporeans’ work ethic, never mind that one must be unable to work to qualify for Public Assistance.

Sir, there are a lot of different perspectives that can be put around ministerial salaries.

My fear is that the singular perspective being applied, of what our ministers could potentially be earning in the private sector, ignores other perspectives that are equally valid and equally important.

We place so much emphasis on using public funds wisely, on sending the right message to society, on not inadvertently creating new problems when we address existing ones.

These same considerations must apply when we consider ministerial salaries. It is not just a question of the number, whether we can afford it or its size relative to the stakes involved.

There are other considerations involved, and other potential repercussions.

And my greatest worry is that an open-ended linkage between ministerial salaries and top earners, which is how the benchmarks work in their current form, could in the long run undermine the moral authority that a government needs to lead the people.

Regulators
22-03-11, 13:06
There are so many president's scholar that are not paid $15,000 a day so I don't know what worth you are talking about here. There are also loads of scholars that are paid ordinary wages of a few thousand dollars a month so is being a scholar really that big a deal? The ironical part is our president and majority of pap mps are not even president's scholars so why should they be paid more than $100k a month in salary minimum? President's scholars working in Astar do not get paid 100k a month for doing research work to help save lives so why should mps doing simple constituency work that any tom dick or harry can do be paid by the millions? Your argument has no logic...
aren't these role models for us?
Work smart and study smart. Be a scholar. and your pays the sky's limit.
so no more playing computer games. Hit the books. Broaden your general knowledge. Get into leadership positions in school/university clubs. Make sure it is the right club also, like uniformed groups and not some gardening club. Once you be a government scholar, you are set for life. Of course, best is President's Scholar, but SAF scholar also can.
"Why should I be ashamed of my salary if I am worth it?"

stl67
22-03-11, 13:21
A few years back one morning after reading the ST, I was grumbling about our PM's pay about < 3Mio.

At that moment, I have one IT Indian consultant sitting opposite me. So I asked him: How much is your PM minister taking? He took out his HP and do some calculation.

After which, He said that the PM is taking about $350k. I was about to get angry when he continued: "But, after corruption, he gets many many times more than your PM".

He went on to say that the Singapore's cabinet deserves the pay for the stability, opportunities, safety for the family and etc.

This incident did gives me a 2nd thought and I agree with my Indian Consultant.

Come to think of it, the previous bank which I work has many top bankers receivng even more than what the ministers is getting. Eg, A young bond trader is driving a Ferrari after getting his bonus.

So in my opinion, they can have $4Mio pay as long as they can bring in many many times more to the country.

hopeful
22-03-11, 13:29
I think it take foreign eyes to appreciate the government.
But somebody will say don't compare to 3rd world countries around us, compare with developed countries like US, UK, Japan etc.

ay123
22-03-11, 13:29
There are so many president's scholar that are not paid $15,000 a day so I don't know what worth you are talking about here. There are also loads of scholars that are paid ordinary wages of a few thousand dollars a month so is being a scholar really that big a deal? The ironical part is our president and majority of pap mps are not even president's scholars so why should they be paid more than $100k a month in salary minimum? President's scholars working in Astar do not get paid 100k a month for doing research work to help save lives so why should mps doing simple constituency work that any tom dick or harry can do be paid by the millions? Your argument has no logic...

what make u think that being a minister is a simple job?

hopeful
22-03-11, 13:32
what make u think that being a minister is a simple job?
Think he wasn't only referring to minister, but also MPs.

ay123
22-03-11, 13:33
A few years back one morning after reading the ST, I was grumbling about our PM's pay about < 3Mio.

At that moment, I have one IT Indian consultant sitting opposite me. So I asked him: How much is your PM minister taking? He took out his HP and do some calculation.

After which, He said that the PM is taking about $350k. I was about to get angry when he continued: "But, after corruption, he gets many many times more than your PM".

He went on to say that the Singapore's cabinet deserves the pay for the stability, opportunities, safety for the family and etc.

This incident did gives me a 2nd thought and I agree with my Indian Consultant.

Come to think of it, the previous bank which I work has many top bankers receivng even more than what the ministers is getting. Eg, A young bond trader is driving a Ferrari after getting his bonus.

So in my opinion, they can have $4Mio pay as long as they can bring in many many times more to the country.

haha...i like the after corruption package...... tats the difference. our govt dare openly said that we are paid millions, full stopl!! neighbouring PM declare i am paid only $xxx, but........hmm hmm deep pocket

devilplate
22-03-11, 13:44
Think he wasn't only referring to minister, but also MPs.

how much a MP paid?

Regulators
22-03-11, 13:49
There is such a thing as secret corruption and open corruption. Both get to achieve their ultimate aim of taking loads of money from the people for their own benefit, both are wrong
A few years back one morning after reading the ST, I was grumbling about our PM's pay about < 3Mio.

At that moment, I have one IT Indian consultant sitting opposite me. So I asked him: How much is your PM minister taking? He took out his HP and do some calculation.

After which, He said that the PM is taking about $350k. I was about to get angry when he continued: "But, after corruption, he gets many many times more than your PM".

He went on to say that the Singapore's cabinet deserves the pay for the stability, opportunities, safety for the family and etc.

This incident did gives me a 2nd thought and I agree with my Indian Consultant.

Come to think of it, the previous bank which I work has many top bankers receivng even more than what the ministers is getting. Eg, A young bond trader is driving a Ferrari after getting his bonus.

So in my opinion, they can have $4Mio pay as long as they can bring in many many times more to the country.

Regulators
22-03-11, 13:59
Traders do not live on fixed salaries and they can either make millions or become bankrupted the next moment. Traders deserve every cent they earn as they stick their necks out and risk their investments or risk being sued by people for not investing people's money well (in the case of fund managers). On the other hand, there is zero financial risk in the job of an MP and they are paid the same allowances in millions every year rain or shine, in good or bad times. When it comes to crunch time when food prices go up, taxes get increased and medical expenses go up, MPs can still raise their own allowances and pay themselves fat bonuses, so how does that compare to a financial institution when workers have to endure pay cuts, lay offs and being poaid no bonuses when times are bad?



Come to think of it, the previous bank which I work has many top bankers receivng even more than what the ministers is getting. Eg, A young bond trader is driving a Ferrari after getting his bonus.

So in my opinion, they can have $4Mio pay as long as they can bring in many many times more to the country.

HP65
22-03-11, 14:02
the last i remember, we had a bunch of scholars and doctors who bidded for the YOG and blew the budget by $300mil.

on another incident, i remembered a doctor who claimed that floods only strike orchard road once in 50 years, only to see another 2 occurences in the span of two weeks.

yet on another separate 'honest mistake', we had a whole detention centre's worth of guards, high flying superintendent, highly paid minister who let slip a terrorist and can't figure out where he went till our good neighbour - malaysia, captured him.

so what if i have a bunch of scholars, doctors, blah-blah-blah, etc.

i'm not arguing that an admin assistant would have better knowledge of governing or dealing with delicate diplomatic relations but i can definitely state that having a bunch of smart alecs ain't no guarantee either.

In the same breath, I will also argue that the very fact we are attractive to foreign investors is because we have a stable political system. Other countries might be able to survive a multi-party or constantly changing political environment with shifting policies that comes about once every 4-5 years. And MAYBE Singapore will also be able to thrive in such an environment. BUT why should I fix something that isn't broken? The very fact that we have a stable political and economic environment under a 1 party rule is a fact and I'm not willing to gamble away just to `try it out' with an admin assistant who might not do a better job than what the current ministers are doing, even if the admin assistant has a noble heart (and i'm not suggesting the ministers do not have a noble heart). The admin assistant can always contribute by helping out at NGOs. Running a country (note: I rate running a small country well as another form of serving the people) requires more than just a kind heart.

I'm one who strongly oppose a multi-party political system, especially for a small country like Singapore. Even my American colleagues are debating the merits of their political system. Their policies change whenever there is a change from Rep to Democrates. And towards the end of the 1st Presi term, there will be concession being made which dilute the merits of the duo-party system put in place originally for reasons of checks and balances.

Some of you argue that there are still a lot of poor people around. I'm sure many has been to other countries and I'm not just comparing to the developing countries. Even US, UK and Germany has poor people. And again, I'm not prepared to gamble and try a different system in case even all of you becomes poor and those who are poor now, becomes poorer.

The way out of poverty is through proper education from young. In this respect, I think for a small country like Singapore, the PAP has done an excellent job. This achievement alone is enough for me. Especially when I have so many requests from my friends around the region and as far away as Korea to be a guardian, uncle, sponsor for their children who are studying here in Singapore.

devilplate
22-03-11, 14:08
PAP run the country reasonably well so far but too highly paid...

so how to change the situation?

how much u guys tink a top minister shd be paid and at the same time ensure no corruption and continuing growth and prosper?

how much pay is enuff to attract real talents to run the country without any corruption?

btw, how much a MP paid ar?

hopeful
22-03-11, 14:08
I believe the problem lies in the perception of worth. Are they worth that much?

How about examples closer to home?

Employees think they are paid less than they are worth. Employers think they pay employees more than they are worth.

Employees think CEOs are overpaid. CEOs think they are underpaid.

So instead of being Republicans, the party of No.
What salaries scale do you think the MPs and Ministers deserve?
What are the benchmarks?

HP65
22-03-11, 14:09
Traders do not live on fixed salaries and they can either make millions or become bankrupted the next moment. Traders deserve every cent they earn as they stick their necks out and risk their investments or risk being sued by people for not investing people's money well (in the case of fund managers). On the other hand, there is zero financial risk in the job of an MP and they are paid the same allowances in millions every year rain or shine, in good or bad times. When it comes to crunch time when food prices go up, taxes get increased and medical expenses go up, MPs can still raise their own allowances and pay themselves fat bonuses, so how does that compare to a financial institution when workers have to endure pay cuts, lay offs and being poaid no bonuses when times are bad?

If you think its such a cushy job, why don't you try doing it? Inflation is not unique to Singapore. Its everywhere. As this thread is about minister's salaries, I'll also state clearly I'm for them receiving what they are getting.

wenqing
22-03-11, 14:12
haha...i like the after corruption package...... tats the difference. our govt dare openly said that we are paid millions, full stopl!! neighbouring PM declare i am paid only $xxx, but........hmm hmm deep pocket

So you are saying the entire world leaders are corrupt except Singapore because Singapore is the only country bother to use corruption as reason to increase Minister pay.

:tsk-tsk: :tsk-tsk:

You really can assume anything under the sun, even world leaders being corrupt or not can also assume and factor into salary payscale.

I did not know it is normal HR practice to assume all possible things and factor in what others in the world will assume to do into your own payscale.

Let us all tell HR that we will all be corrupt if no highest pay then.

So you saying lower pay = corrupt.

So you are accusing all previous lower paid PAP governments before 2007 Great Ministerial Pay Hike of corruption.

Please say it out loud to all the early PAP batches of MPs then.

wenqing
22-03-11, 14:18
A few years back one morning after reading the ST, I was grumbling about our PM's pay about < 3Mio.

At that moment, I have one IT Indian consultant sitting opposite me. So I asked him: How much is your PM minister taking? He took out his HP and do some calculation.

After which, He said that the PM is taking about $350k. I was about to get angry when he continued: "But, after corruption, he gets many many times more than your PM".

He went on to say that the Singapore's cabinet deserves the pay for the stability, opportunities, safety for the family and etc.

This incident did gives me a 2nd thought and I agree with my Indian Consultant.

Come to think of it, the previous bank which I work has many top bankers receivng even more than what the ministers is getting. Eg, A young bond trader is driving a Ferrari after getting his bonus.

So in my opinion, they can have $4Mio pay as long as they can bring in many many times more to the country.

It is well documented FTs who come to Singapore to work will support PAP and even join grassroots just to get PR or retain one.

Indian IT consultants are everywhere in Singapore and I worked with many of them.

They will say anything to retain their job get their PRs etc but most of them goes back India once they had earn enough.

It is all about self-interest.

The answers you get from them are already skewed with personal interests. Hope you are smarter than that.

Many also know at 2009 financial crisis, when banks started to collapse one by one, all these 'top bankers' were busy grabbing as much as possible from the toxic funds for themselves.

Trust bankers at your own risk.

Regulators
22-03-11, 14:18
The disproportion between their pay and job scope
dwarfs their job role significantly. Being the highest paid ministers in the world, and yet not having a fraction of international exposure as people like Obama, Condoleeza, Hilary Clinton and many other high level diplomats will make our MPs seem like small fries walking around in big shoes just by looking at their pay scale. Many unknown MPs in Singapore are paid more than Obama, but when asked what contributions they have made to world politics, absolutely zilch...

what make u think that being a minister is a simple job?

peterng8
22-03-11, 14:20
Are you guilty of falsehood by telling people here that she hasn't been on one when you don't know whether or not she has or has not been on one?

Why make the accusation that she has no empathy for common folks or live in ivory tower?

Yes, as for minister checking on bus services, IMO, that is a media event. No arguments with you there.

as for feeling squeezy, it is a matter of perception.
1) I observed that the middle of the train, is relatively less crowded, people usually crowd around the doors.
2) The feeling of squeeziness can be induced when one's personal space is being intruded upon. As an example, rural people will feel more squeezy than city folks in a train. Perhaps you have a bigger personal space? (not attacking you here).
Perhaps somebody can suggest to SMRT to have parametrics for squeeziness. ie how many people in a carriage to be considered squeezy.

one observation to make: why doesn't anybody complain about being crowded in a lift, but usually you will find many complains about being crowded in buses, trains.:beats-me-man:


U claimed that you are not converted to Singaporean and u are based overseas(other tthreads )...have u ever ever take a MRT to work in the morning peak hour in SINGAPORE? CPCB....

wenqing
22-03-11, 14:26
In the same breath, I will also argue that the very fact we are attractive to foreign investors is because we have a stable political system. Other countries might be able to survive a multi-party or constantly changing political environment with shifting policies that comes about once every 4-5 years. And MAYBE Singapore will also be able to thrive in such an environment. BUT why should I fix something that isn't broken? The very fact that we have a stable political and economic environment under a 1 party rule is a fact and I'm not willing to gamble away just to `try it out' with an admin assistant who might not do a better job than what the current ministers are doing, even if the admin assistant has a noble heart (and i'm not suggesting the ministers do not have a noble heart). The admin assistant can always contribute by helping out at NGOs. Running a country (note: I rate running a small country well as another form of serving the people) requires more than just a kind heart.

I'm one who strongly oppose a multi-party political system, especially for a small country like Singapore. Even my American colleagues are debating the merits of their political system. Their policies change whenever there is a change from Rep to Democrates. And towards the end of the 1st Presi term, there will be concession being made which dilute the merits of the duo-party system put in place originally for reasons of checks and balances.

Some of you argue that there are still a lot of poor people around. I'm sure many has been to other countries and I'm not just comparing to the developing countries. Even US, UK and Germany has poor people. And again, I'm not prepared to gamble and try a different system in case even all of you becomes poor and those who are poor now, becomes poorer.

The way out of poverty is through proper education from young. In this respect, I think for a small country like Singapore, the PAP has done an excellent job. This achievement alone is enough for me. Especially when I have so many requests from my friends around the region and as far away as Korea to be a guardian, uncle, sponsor for their children who are studying here in Singapore.


Even without multi-parties, our policies are already constantly shifting like Mah's housing policies (Oversupply to Undersupply) and immigration policies (Stop at 2 to blaming Singaporeans for not having more babies).

There are poor people everywhere including Singapore so you want to blame on political system on being multi-party or not ??

So you admit Singapore is a small country so how can we sustain the most expensive government in the world by 6 times.

If we are young country, are we not paying MNC rate for SME job ??

If you wait until it is broken then fix , it will be too late e.g. Libya, Egypt, Algeria.

Opposition = Admin Assistant

I wonder if you are still stuck in 1980s with such shallowness.

You can only blame yourself if you do not update yourself enough. Most Opposition are degree holders and hold good positions in private sector.

You want to talk job complexity, is Singapore government and President Nathan empowered with almost absolute power more complex than the leaders of UK, US and Japan ??

Can Singapore government handle nuclear plant when they cannot even handle and give proper answers for Orchard Rd flood?

Multi-party is bad so where do you get your HTC, Acer (Taiwan), Panasonic, Toyotas (Japan), Samsung, LG (Korea), English Soccer (UK), iPhones , Facebook , Internet (USA) from ????

You should live in North Korea. You will love it there because it is one party only. Yes, you will find poor people there too even though it is not multi-party.

peterng8
22-03-11, 14:30
defend nobody.....every man for himself!!:hell-hath-no-fury:

jus making cute cute comments.....SMILE:D :cheers6:

Ha ha...yeah lor, anything just push to someone and siam can liao....he he:D

another typical agent character...:D try to act lao cute....

hopeful
22-03-11, 14:31
U claimed that you are not converted to Singaporean and u are based overseas(other tthreads )...have u ever ever take a MRT to work in the morning peak hour in SINGAPORE? CPCB....

sure, during NTU, take MRT to BoonLay and take bus (199?) to NTU. During working life, take MRT to BoonLay and take company bus to workplace.
Everyday I might add :) Do I complain? No. Just need to work harder, work smarter to escape the life of peons.
Anymore you want to know about me?

focus
22-03-11, 14:31
haha...i like the after corruption package...... tats the difference. our govt dare openly said that we are paid millions, full stopl!! neighbouring PM declare i am paid only $xxx, but........hmm hmm deep pocket


Actually... we haven't counted the other pay packages the MPs and ministers and members of the extended family have in our GLCs and directorship in others.

So, possibly, India ministers and Singapore ministers could be on par in the payscale after tallying everything :p

peterng8
22-03-11, 14:38
There are so many president's scholar that are not paid $15,000 a day so I don't know what worth you are talking about here. There are also loads of scholars that are paid ordinary wages of a few thousand dollars a month so is being a scholar really that big a deal? The ironical part is our president and majority of pap mps are not even president's scholars so why should they be paid more than $100k a month in salary minimum? President's scholars working in Astar do not get paid 100k a month for doing research work to help save lives so why should mps doing simple constituency work that any tom dick or harry can do be paid by the millions? Your argument has no logic...


The guy u are replying to alread decalred he has investments in singapore so to prtect his investments, he dont mind be shallow, coward etc....yet he is not convertd to singaporean...come here to cho luan one...ha ha:D

ay123
22-03-11, 14:44
with our achievement now, do u think our govt is really so shallow and so useless? how much reserve have we accumulated for a population of 6 millions? estimated at least 500billion. which is about $83,333 per person. And china has say 2 trillions reserve for a population of 1.4billion people. which is about $1,429 per person.

peterng8
22-03-11, 14:46
sure, during NTU, take MRT to BoonLay and take bus (199?) to NTU. During working life, take MRT to BoonLay and take company bus to workplace.
Everyday I might add :) Do I complain? No. Just need to work harder, work smarter to escape the life of peons.
Anymore you want to know about me?


that was last time..my friend...not the same now the situation as the population (FT, PR + singaorean) booms...

Regulators
22-03-11, 14:47
Compare ang Mong Seng's CV and President Obama's CV:

Ang Mong Seng - http://www.parliament.gov.sg/AboutUs/Org-MP-CV-AngMongSeng.htm

Obama - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama

Mr Ang is paid more than Obama in public wages but I don't see their CVs as being anywhere comparable. :doh:



If you think its such a cushy job, why don't you try doing it? Inflation is not unique to Singapore. Its everywhere. As this thread is about minister's salaries, I'll also state clearly I'm for them receiving what they are getting.

wenqing
22-03-11, 14:50
In the same breath, I will also argue that the very fact we are attractive to foreign investors is because we have a stable political system. Other countries might be able to survive a multi-party or constantly changing political environment with shifting policies that comes about once every 4-5 years. And MAYBE Singapore will also be able to thrive in such an environment. BUT why should I fix something that isn't broken? The very fact that we have a stable political and economic environment under a 1 party rule is a fact and I'm not willing to gamble away just to `try it out' with an admin assistant who might not do a better job than what the current ministers are doing, even if the admin assistant has a noble heart (and i'm not suggesting the ministers do not have a noble heart). The admin assistant can always contribute by helping out at NGOs. Running a country (note: I rate running a small country well as another form of serving the people) requires more than just a kind heart.

I'm one who strongly oppose a multi-party political system, especially for a small country like Singapore. Even my American colleagues are debating the merits of their political system. Their policies change whenever there is a change from Rep to Democrates. And towards the end of the 1st Presi term, there will be concession being made which dilute the merits of the duo-party system put in place originally for reasons of checks and balances.

Some of you argue that there are still a lot of poor people around. I'm sure many has been to other countries and I'm not just comparing to the developing countries. Even US, UK and Germany has poor people. And again, I'm not prepared to gamble and try a different system in case even all of you becomes poor and those who are poor now, becomes poorer.

The way out of poverty is through proper education from young. In this respect, I think for a small country like Singapore, the PAP has done an excellent job. This achievement alone is enough for me. Especially when I have so many requests from my friends around the region and as far away as Korea to be a guardian, uncle, sponsor for their children who are studying here in Singapore.

Americans will never give their rights to democracy and voting out governments, it is their culture.

They never like and never believe the idea of 'perfect leader' and propagandish one party government.

Dont talk crap about Americans if you do not know them well enough.

Many Singaporeans also go overseas to study especially government scholars.They prefer UK, US and Aussie universities.

Most of your new PAP MPs studied overseas than local universities.

From O to A levels, we take exams from UK GCE, so UK government is the best ??

You must be wondering why people of these countries still vote their governments out at times.

Linking people coming here to study to good government is really funny and shallow. It says alot about the shallow education Singaporeans are having in Singapore.

Your examples are there but weak and unconvincing.

Easily debunked.

eng81157
22-03-11, 14:51
In the same breath, I will also argue that the very fact we are attractive to foreign investors is because we have a stable political system. Other countries might be able to survive a multi-party or constantly changing political environment with shifting policies that comes about once every 4-5 years. And MAYBE Singapore will also be able to thrive in such an environment. BUT why should I fix something that isn't broken? The very fact that we have a stable political and economic environment under a 1 party rule is a fact and I'm not willing to gamble away just to `try it out' with an admin assistant who might not do a better job than what the current ministers are doing, even if the admin assistant has a noble heart (and i'm not suggesting the ministers do not have a noble heart). The admin assistant can always contribute by helping out at NGOs. Running a country (note: I rate running a small country well as another form of serving the people) requires more than just a kind heart.

I'm one who strongly oppose a multi-party political system, especially for a small country like Singapore. Even my American colleagues are debating the merits of their political system. Their policies change whenever there is a change from Rep to Democrates. And towards the end of the 1st Presi term, there will be concession being made which dilute the merits of the duo-party system put in place originally for reasons of checks and balances.

Some of you argue that there are still a lot of poor people around. I'm sure many has been to other countries and I'm not just comparing to the developing countries. Even US, UK and Germany has poor people. And again, I'm not prepared to gamble and try a different system in case even all of you becomes poor and those who are poor now, becomes poorer.

The way out of poverty is through proper education from young. In this respect, I think for a small country like Singapore, the PAP has done an excellent job. This achievement alone is enough for me. Especially when I have so many requests from my friends around the region and as far away as Korea to be a guardian, uncle, sponsor for their children who are studying here in Singapore.

we ain't arguing about having a multi-party political system or how richly are our ministers paid. i agree that we shouldn't fix something that ain't broken, but that's assuming that there's nothing broken in the 1st place.

it's about governance. if a 2 party system is what it takes to enforce governance, then i'm all for it. at this moment, the 1 dominant party parliament can pass any sort of legislation without checks and balances.

if we can mirror this example in US, say Obama is slated to receive a pay increment of 30% without good reason, will the republicans accept it subserviently or put the motion through a rigorous debate?

peterng8
22-03-11, 14:51
with our achievement now, do u think our govt is really so shallow and so useless? how much reserve have we accumulated for a population of 6 millions? estimated at least 500billion. which is about $83,333 per person. And china has say 2 trillions reserve for a population of 1.4billion people. which is about $1,429 per person.

not talking about garmen, talking about our feinrd here...Mr h*peful..:D

by the way, cna i iuse the reserve (S$83,333/person ma)for another downpament huh?:D :D if cannot, than it ok for me to ignore it...:D

hopeful
22-03-11, 14:56
The guy u are replying to alread decalred he has investments in singapore so to prtect his investments, he dont mind be shallow, coward etc....yet he is not convertd to singaporean...come here to cho luan one...ha ha:D

To invest/speculate in Singapore stocks/properties need to be Singaporean?
To invest/speculate in Malaysia stocks/properties need to be Malaysian?
Why do you keep on emphasizing that I have not converted to Singaporean?:beats-me-man:. Don't worry, I dont repatriate the funds back to Indonesia, so S$ will still be strong. I re-invest back in next cycle :)


that was last time..my friend...not the same now the situation as the population (FT, PR + singaorean) booms...

I think if a carriage can squeeze 40 people a few years back for maximum "squeeziness", I dont think it can squeeze 45 people now.
If more people take the train, it only means peak period is longer, thats all, the maximum passengers a train can carry is still fixed a few years back and today.

wenqing
22-03-11, 14:57
with our achievement now, do u think our govt is really so shallow and so useless? how much reserve have we accumulated for a population of 6 millions? estimated at least 500billion. which is about $83,333 per person. And china has say 2 trillions reserve for a population of 1.4billion people. which is about $1,429 per person.

Going by your past posts, it is hard to believe your figures anymore.

Besides nobody is saying PAP is useless or shallow. All PAP need is a wake up call as they are getting too comfortable and complacent. This is base on 5 years of bad management.

We are just rebutting people who say Opposition is useless and shallow without giving facts.

There is alot of ways to accumulate reserves like taxing Singaporeans more. You call that good governance ??

Nazi Germany, Libya and Egypt reserves also quite alot but where did the money come from ?

Singapore got lots of reserves but who can verify besides the one-sided parliament ??

Did Singaporeans enjoy these reserves ??

ay123
22-03-11, 14:58
not talking about garmen, talking about our feinrd here...Mr h*peful..:D

by the way, cna i iuse the reserve (S$83,333/person ma)for another downpament huh?:D :D if cannot, than it ok for me to ignore it...:D

u have a big rod right? try using it for downpayment lor.....since yr big rod is DOWN there......

eng81157
22-03-11, 15:01
To invest/speculate in Singapore stocks/properties need to be Singaporean?
To invest/speculate in Malaysia stocks/properties need to be Malaysian?
Why do you keep on emphasizing that I have not converted to Singaporean?:beats-me-man:. Don't worry, I dont repatriate the funds back to Indonesia, so S$ will still be strong. I re-invest back in next cycle :)



I think if a carriage can squeeze 40 people a few years back for maximum "squeeziness", I dont think it can squeeze 45 people now.
If more people take the train, it only means peak period is longer, thats all, the maximum passengers a train can carry is still fixed a few years back and today.

that exposes the differences in our psyche. you are merely an investor who's happy to play a bystander's role as long as your investment is safe.

to the rest of us here, we are rooted, some by choice while some by circumstances, to this country and believe that our stakes are higher comparatively.

anything goes wrong, you pack up and lament on losses incurred on your investment. for us, anything goes wrong, we suffer more than in mere financial terms

hopeful
22-03-11, 15:01
So far, many against high salaries.
Nobody has proposed what is ideal/fair salaries?
Using what methodologies and benchmarks.

ay123
22-03-11, 15:07
Going by your past posts, it is hard to believe your figures anymore.

Besides nobody is saying PAP is useless or shallow. All PAP need is a wake up call as they are getting too comfortable and complacent. This is base on 5 years of bad management.
did PAP stop anyone from contesting them? by all mean if u want to take them.

We are just rebutting people who say Opposition is useless and shallow without giving facts.
PROVE IT not talk only

There is alot of ways to accumulate reserves like taxing Singaporeans more. You call that good governance ??
do u think most our billion dollars reserve come from singaporean tax? :doh:

Nazi Germany, Libya and Egypt reserves also quite alot but where did the money come from ? who care!

Singapore got lots of reserves but who can verify besides the one-sided parliament ??
GIC/Temasek represent spore reserve. if we are empty shelf, can we invest in so many MNCs (lets not talk abt losing $)

Did Singaporeans enjoy these reserves ?? Reserve is to keep for rainy day. didnt u receive the budget ang pow?