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proper-t
24-02-11, 08:25
http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/mnt/media/image/launched/2011-02-24/umlanded.jpg

Business Times - 24 Feb 2011


Landed homes closing the psf price gap
They still transact at a discount to non-landed homes, but gap is smaller
By UMA SHANKARI (SINGAPORE) The price gap between non-landed property and landed property has narrowed in per square foot (psf) terms over the last two years, according to an analysis by a property firm.
At the end of March 2009, terrace houses, semi-detached houses and detached houses transacted at discounts of 23 per cent, 36 per cent and 38 per cent respectively as compared to non-landed units in psf terms.
By the end of 2010, the gaps had narrowed, although landed properties are still transacting at significant discounts compared to non-landed properties: discounts of 14 per cent, 30 per cent and 26 per cent respectively for terrace, semi-detached and detached houses.
The Urban Redevelopment Authority's (URA) price index for landed homes climbed 30.8 per cent last year. The sub-index for detached houses, or bungalows, soared 37.6 per cent.
By contrast, the index for non-landed private homes rose a relatively smaller 14 per cent last year, the government agency said last month.
Property consultancy International Property Advisor, which pinpointed the trend of the narrowing price gaps using data from URA, said that landed home prices are climbing on the back of growing demand due to the demographic changes and lifestyle needs of the Generation X-ers (Singaporeans born in the 1960s and 1970s).
'Based on the instructions we have been receiving from our clients, the demand for landed properties is strengthening,' said the firm's chief executive Ku Swee Yong.
In addition, demand is also being boosted by new Singaporeans who are used to living in landed properties in their countries of birth. High net worth Malaysians, Indonesians and Chinese who become new citizens fall into this group.
Echoed Savills Singapore's executive director for investment and prestige homes Steven Ming: 'Landed price gains are underpinned by growing affluence and demand against a limited availability of supply.'
Savills, which tracks the prices of Good Class Bungalows (GCBs) as well as non-landed luxury and high-end private homes in Singapore using its own baskets of properties, noticed that GCB prices grew more sharply in 2009 and 2010.
Prices of GCBs and other types of landed homes are now growing faster as they have typically been depressed compared to non-landed units, noted Mr Ming. He explained that they are starting from a 'lower base' and are therefore recording more rapid gains.
Looking ahead, Mr Ming said that the price gap between landed and non-landed home prices can be expected to narrow further - as long as economic fundamentals remain intact to continue supporting demand for landed homes.
But as with non-landed home prices, prices for landed properties are expected to rise at a more measured pace this year compared to last year, analysts said.
Recent government measures to cool the property market - including further slashing the loan-to- value limit on housing loans to 60 per cent for buyers with outstanding housing loans - have dampened homebuyer sentiment and are expected to have some impact on the landed property market as well, they said.

land118
24-02-11, 09:33
Looking at the 3 categories of landed, semi-d are a sandwiched class. For smaller quantum value, Terrace which is also the entry level for those who wants to get landed. Detached - which applies to GCB as well are special lot, command premiun and moreover many have larger land area, so the lower psf. Semi-D, some even slightly bigger than Terrace or same size as Terrace even but psf stucked - also same as Detached category. One would thought that Semi D would be in between Terrace and Detached which is not the case... Interesting chart. Depend on how you read it, if you are bullish, u would think that Semi D is laggard. On the other hand, people may also regard Terrace as overpriced? I believe gap may get closer..to between 10-25%. still have room to gap up.

bullman
24-02-11, 09:58
Looking at the 3 categories of landed, semi-d are a sandwiched class. For smaller quantum value, Terrace which is also the entry level for those who wants to get landed. Detached - which applies to GCB as well are special lot, command premiun and moreover many have larger land area, so the lower psf. Semi-D, some even slightly bigger than Terrace or same size as Terrace even but psf stucked - also same as Detached category. One would thought that Semi D would be in between Terrace and Detached which is not the case... Interesting chart. Depend on how you read it, if you are bullish, u would think that Semi D is laggard. On the other hand, people may also regard Terrace as overpriced? I believe gap may get closer..to between 10-25%. still have room to gap up.

Land bullish me agree that there is still room to move up.

From my personal experience, inter terraces make better investment tools as landed upgraders normally target these and buyer pool is thus bigger. A newly rebuilt 3.5 storey inter can fetch 3 - 5.5 mil in today's market. This is unthinkable just a year back. Even a run down single storey one cost at least 1.5 mil.

For own stay, it should be entry level detached if one can afford it. Smaller detached land of 6000 sqft is just slightly bigger than some semi-D but offers much more privacy and exclusiveness.

greenhorn
24-02-11, 10:16
Hey, do you guys think that it is possible that come one day, landed psf would even outperform non-landed psf? As more people see value in landed and as the supply is very limited in SG with growing population & affluence, this scenario could be plausible. Perhaps when the % of landed vs total pte ppty stock reaches 15% from current 27% within the next 5-10 yrs?

DC33_2008
24-02-11, 10:21
It has already happened in some of the areas.
Hey, do you guys think that it is possible that come one day, landed psf would even outperform non-landed psf? As more people see value in landed and as the supply is very limited in SG with growing population & affluence, this scenario could be plausible. Perhaps when the % of landed vs total pte ppty stock reaches 15% from current 27% within the next 5-10 yrs?

bullman
24-02-11, 10:22
Hey, do you guys think that it is possible that come one day, landed psf would even outperform non-landed psf? As more people see value in landed and as the supply is very limited in SG with growing population & affluence, this scenario could be plausible. Perhaps when the % of landed vs total pte ppty stock reaches 15% from current 27% within the next 5-10 yrs?

For many landed, especially for terrace, the land psf has already out perform RCR non landed prices. Some are matching CCR non landed prices. The challenge is for the built in psf to match non landed psf prices.

devilplate
24-02-11, 10:23
Hey, do you guys think that it is possible that come one day, landed psf would even outperform non-landed psf? As more people see value in landed and as the supply is very limited in SG with growing population & affluence, this scenario could be plausible. Perhaps when the % of landed vs total pte ppty stock reaches 15% from current 27% within the next 5-10 yrs?

but with shrinking household members? :beats-me-man:

one couple w/o kids wana stay in big landed meh? furthermore, kids dun stay with parents after marriage liao....

however, the uber richies will still prefer GCBs or penthse but not those terrace hse....:2cents:

bullman
24-02-11, 10:34
but with shrinking household members? :beats-me-man:

one couple w/o kids wana stay in big landed meh? furthermore, kids dun stay with parents after marriage liao....

however, the uber richies will still prefer GCBs or penthse but not those terrace hse....:2cents:

That's my initial thought as well. After some groundwork, I find couples w/o kids buying into those smaller inter terrace and they will normally do a simple A&A to spruce the place up with a super big master, a study and sometimes an entertainment room. Suits their lifestyle perfectly.

It basically gives them the flexibility to configure the house to their liking. Not many developers can offer this, maybe only those high end open plan projects.

devilplate
24-02-11, 10:41
That's my initial thought as well. After some groundwork, I find couples w/o kids buying into those smaller inter terrace and they will normally do a simple A&A to spruce the place up with a super big master, a study and sometimes an entertainment room. Suits their lifestyle perfectly.

It basically gives them the flexibility to configure the house to their liking. Not many developers can offer this, maybe only those high end open plan projects.

oo..interesting

anyway landed prices psf keep going up only means SG land is getting vy expensive....tats y developer r still bidding record high for even 99LH land?

greenhorn
24-02-11, 11:02
but with shrinking household members? :beats-me-man:

one couple w/o kids wana stay in big landed meh? furthermore, kids dun stay with parents after marriage liao....

however, the uber richies will still prefer GCBs or penthse but not those terrace hse....:2cents:

It'll be interesting to study the profile of a typical buyer of landed properties. Think its different from non-landed buying crowd. Landed buyers have different needs/wants and thus their choice of homes notwithstanding family size. For some its need for space, for some its status/ego, for some its $$$, while for others its lifestyle choice, etc...

DC33_2008
24-02-11, 11:16
I am referring to FH land and not LH land. Not worth to invest in LH land but I must qualify that it is different from non-landed LH property.
oo..interesting

anyway landed prices psf keep going up only means SG land is getting vy expensive....tats y developer r still bidding record high for even 99LH land?

devilplate
24-02-11, 11:23
I am referring to FH land and not LH land. Not worth to invest in LH land but I must qualify that it is different from non-landed LH property.

i mean 99LH GLS for condos.....

if landed psf keep rising....it just means SG land is getting more expensive....its a cycle? hehe

bullman
24-02-11, 12:34
i mean 99LH GLS for condos.....

if landed psf keep rising....it just means SG land is getting more expensive....its a cycle? hehe

This is an interesting point to raise regarding the so called cyclical nature of real estate.

Even after reading "timing the real estate market", I do not subscribe totally to the idea of timing the purchase for landed, especially so for FH. Its a totally different ball game from non-landed and landed LH.

In the context of US, where land is plentiful, the distinction between landed and non-landed is minimal.

Blue
11-03-11, 14:31
For many landed, especially for terrace, the land psf has already out perform RCR non landed prices. Some are matching CCR non landed prices. The challenge is for the built in psf to match non landed psf prices.

Built in psf for landed will eventually match non landed built in psf. Why?

Because we are comparing apple to apple => i.e. liveable space

But for landed, because it comes with the bonus land which is your own (in the case of freehold), so there is still room for landed houses to rocket up.

So for illustration, within the same district, a condo unit may be selling at $1500psf. A neaby landed house with a built in of 3000 sq ft could be selling for $4.5M at the same psf regardless of land size. (Land size could be 1500 sq ft for instance).

So in terms of land psf, it is selling at $3000 psf. In terms of built in psf, it is selling at $1500 psf same as the condo unit.

Currently, maybe the landed house is probably worth $3M only. So there is still room to grow to $4.5M!!!

In a land scarce Singapore, this phenomenon will come true eventually.

So only the top 10% rich Singaporeans can stay in landed houses next time.

devilplate
11-03-11, 14:39
Built in psf for landed will eventually match non landed built in psf. Why?

Because we are comparing apple to apple => i.e. liveable space

But for landed, because it comes with the bonus land which is your own (in the case of freehold), so there is still room for landed houses to rocket up.

So for illustration, within the same district, a condo unit may be selling at $1500psf. A neaby landed house with a built in of 3000 sq ft could be selling for $4.5M at the same psf regardless of land size. (Land size could be 1500 sq ft for instance).

So in terms of land psf, it is selling at $3000 psf. In terms of built in psf, it is selling at $1500 psf same as the condo unit.

Currently, maybe the landed house is probably worth $3M only. So there is still room to grow to $4.5M!!!

In a land scarce Singapore, this phenomenon will come true eventually.

So only the top 10% rich Singaporeans can stay in landed houses next time.

dot dot dot....

land value still determined by plot ratio and location.....a gd gauge will be the enbloc prices (psf ppr) and use it as a comparison for ur actual Landed value(plus a percentage for the house sitting on the land):2cents:

proper-t
11-03-11, 14:55
Built in psf for landed will eventually match non landed built in psf. Why?

Because we are comparing apple to apple => i.e. liveable space

But for landed, because it comes with the bonus land which is your own (in the case of freehold), so there is still room for landed houses to rocket up.

So for illustration, within the same district, a condo unit may be selling at $1500psf. A neaby landed house with a built in of 3000 sq ft could be selling for $4.5M at the same psf regardless of land size. (Land size could be 1500 sq ft for instance).

So in terms of land psf, it is selling at $3000 psf. In terms of built in psf, it is selling at $1500 psf same as the condo unit.

Currently, maybe the landed house is probably worth $3M only. So there is still room to grow to $4.5M!!!

In a land scarce Singapore, this phenomenon will come true eventually.

So only the top 10% rich Singaporeans can stay in landed houses next time.

Not to misunderstand my motivation. I am also quite optimistic on landed but to really compare apple to apple would mean that you would have to look at prices of ground floor condo units in developments with limited or no facilities.

Landed houses may not have splendid views or full facilities to enjoy so there is a tradeoff. On the other hand, there are no maintenance charges and you do not have to tussle for parking space (may not be true for some houses without enough area for parking). Some houses even have their own pools.

The ground floor units of condos are usually the cheapest in terms of psf price. So to be truly accurate in comparing apples, my opinion is that there is room for landed properties built-up psf to catch up with the lowest psf price achieved in boutique condos with little or no facilities in the same vicinity.

land118
11-03-11, 15:54
Since MM prices now so high and every new project price is edging up, most people now getting up to high prices..., agree for landed there is still room to move up, just that quantum for landed may be out of reach of many..., so that small landed..of 2000sqft land and below will be in greater demand. 2000sqft land can easily build 2.5 sty of 4k-4.5k sqft.

wind30
12-03-11, 09:57
Since MM prices now so high and every new project price is edging up, most people now getting up to high prices..., agree for landed there is still room to move up, just that quantum for landed may be out of reach of many..., so that small landed..of 2000sqft land and below will be in greater demand. 2000sqft land can easily build 2.5 sty of 4k-4.5k sqft.

2.5 sty can hit 4.5k sqft? My place a lot of people build 3.5 sty which is like a condo....

land118
12-03-11, 19:47
2.5 sty can hit 4.5k sqft? My place a lot of people build 3.5 sty which is like a condo....

Yes, possible if u say land is 2ksqft... Below article below..:



http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/...53540,00.html?

Published September 17, 2010

Landed homes get new profile in pilot project

New approach allows for more flexibility in how they are built

By KALPANA RASHIWALA


(SINGAPORE) The Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA) is conducting a pilot project of modified guidelines that will allow more creative designs for landed homes.

The guidelines will apply to nine landed housing plots it will auction next month under Sembawang Greenvale Phase 3.

The guidelines do away with some of the current 'micro controls' such as the attic profile, floor-to- floor height and basement protrusions. Instead, it will merely control the envelop or the overall bulk of the house.

One fallout though is that the overall height limit of a three-storey house under the new approach is lower than under the old guidelines.

Singapore's planning authority said the new approach will give architects greater freedom to propose a variety of layouts and designs as long as the proposal is generally compatible with surrounding three-storey houses. For instance, one can propose more lofty spaces in certain parts of the house such as the living room and master bedroom in front, and have more compact spaces elsewhere - say, the study room or bedroom at the rear.

W Architects managing director Mok Wei Wei welcomed the new approach: 'It takes care of the big picture by controlling the envelop; in other words, the building shouldn't be bigger than what it should be. But within that, it relaxes some of the earlier controls like the maximum storey height. Under existing guidelines, the first storey has a maximum height of 4.5 metres, and the second and third storeys, 3.6 metres each.

'But now this maximum storey height control is removed. So it means you have a freer volumetric play of the space, while still allowing you to achieve the same overall built-up area as before. That's the greatest advantage.'

There is still a control of minimum storey height, so the minimum habitable standard is not sacrificed, he noted.

For a landed housing estate like Sembawang Greenvale, under the existing rules, one could stretch the total building height upto 17.7 metres for a three-storey house with an attic and a basement.

But under the envelop control approach - with an overall height of 15.5 metres, inclusive of the top 3.5 metres set back from the front and rear building facade - one can design a four-storey building and still have an attic and basement for the part of the house that one does not mind being compacted, Mr Mok says.

The 15.5-metre height limit is well calibrated to ensure excessive stories are not inserted within the new envelop that could lead to, for instance, a six-storey house. The proposed envelop height limit - which is based on dimensions of a typical three-storey house, says URA - will help address concerns that a house could resemble a flat if a 17.7-metre height limit were to be allowed.

The envelop control approach also does away with the existing control that the basement may protrude only upto one metre above the ground. The new approach allows a basement that is less deep and hence protrudes more above ground, which should result in cost savings for the owner.

URA's spokeswoman said that if the pilot project at Sembawang Greenvale is successful, the authority may consider extending the envelop control guidelines to landed housing developments in other locations or types of works such as additions and alterations of existing landed property.

The envelop control approach was the result of feedback during URA's Focus Group consultation exercise on landed housing in late 2007.

Blue
14-03-11, 15:12
Not to misunderstand my motivation. I am also quite optimistic on landed but to really compare apple to apple would mean that you would have to look at prices of ground floor condo units in developments with limited or no facilities.

Landed houses may not have splendid views or full facilities to enjoy so there is a tradeoff. On the other hand, there are no maintenance charges and you do not have to tussle for parking space (may not be true for some houses without enough area for parking). Some houses even have their own pools.

The ground floor units of condos are usually the cheapest in terms of psf price. So to be truly accurate in comparing apples, my opinion is that there is room for landed properties built-up psf to catch up with the lowest psf price achieved in boutique condos with little or no facilities in the same vicinity.

In today's market, even the lowest psf in boutique condos is doing above $1000 psf on the average.

So a landed with built in, say 3500 sqft, is worth $3.5M in due course :2cents:

To the majority Singaporeans with household income less than $10K per month, this would seem way out of reach. But for those middle aged professionals / dinks (dual income no kids) with more than $20K monthly household income, this is still affordable.

Blue
14-03-11, 15:33
dot dot dot....

land value still determined by plot ratio and location.....a gd gauge will be the enbloc prices (psf ppr) and use it as a comparison for ur actual Landed value(plus a percentage for the house sitting on the land):2cents:

Put it simply, if a developer enblocs your landed, say your landed is 1500 sqft land, and the height restriction for the area is 5 storeys, the developer can actually build 4 storeys or 4 units of 1200 sqft (3 bedders) or 8 units of 600 sqft (1 bedder), while ground floor is for parking.

The selling price of each unit say is $1200 psf for 3 bedders and $1500 psf for 1 bedder => Total revenue is $5.76M for 3 bedders or $7.2M for 1 bedder.

So mickey mouse 1 bedder fetches a higher revenue, and obviously he would choose it.

Working backwards and using $7.2M revenue, and supposingly his profit margin is 20%, his max allowable cost would be $5.76M @ 80%.

Rebuilding the 1 bedders would cost him $1.5M @ $300psf x 8 units x 600sqft.

So the max he would pay for your landed is $4.26M, or maybe less a bit more for government fees, stamp duty and etc => $4M.

Still it is a very good price for a landed owner to sell his 1500 sqft land for $4M which shows the potential upside of the landed.

devilplate
14-03-11, 16:08
Put it simply, if a developer enblocs your landed, say your landed is 1500 sqft land, and the height restriction for the area is 5 storeys, the developer can actually build 4 storeys or 4 units of 1200 sqft (3 bedders) or 8 units of 600 sqft (1 bedder), while ground floor is for parking.

The selling price of each unit say is $1200 psf for 3 bedders and $1500 psf for 1 bedder => Total revenue is $5.76M for 3 bedders or $7.2M for 1 bedder.

So mickey mouse 1 bedder fetches a higher revenue, and obviously he would choose it.

Working backwards and using $7.2M revenue, and supposingly his profit margin is 20%, his max allowable cost would be $5.76M @ 80%.

Rebuilding the 1 bedders would cost him $1.5M @ $300psf x 8 units x 600sqft.

So the max he would pay for your landed is $4.26M, or maybe less a bit more for government fees, stamp duty and etc => $4M.

Still it is a very good price for a landed owner to sell his 1500 sqft land for $4M which shows the potential upside of the landed.

reminds me of sm1 who say avoid landed in telok kurau and go for true blue landed....and another one says got TK landed got enbloc potential....

Duku
14-03-11, 16:30
Built in psf for landed will eventually match non landed built in psf. Why?

Because we are comparing apple to apple => i.e. liveable space

But for landed, because it comes with the bonus land which is your own (in the case of freehold), so there is still room for landed houses to rocket up.

So for illustration, within the same district, a condo unit may be selling at $1500psf. A neaby landed house with a built in of 3000 sq ft could be selling for $4.5M at the same psf regardless of land size. (Land size could be 1500 sq ft for instance).

So in terms of land psf, it is selling at $3000 psf. In terms of built in psf, it is selling at $1500 psf same as the condo unit.

Currently, maybe the landed house is probably worth $3M only. So there is still room to grow to $4.5M!!!

.

Blue
I like you
If that ever happens in the next 2 years, i would be very thankful for analysis like this :spliff:

BTW, I also think landed is still underprice.... especially for land that are quoted less than liveable space.
Ie plot ratio 1.4?? Land price 900 psf vs nearby condo free hold 1800psf
Potential upside 100% + Plot Ratio upside 40% = 140 %???

So the real gem are those that that land price lesser than condo liveable space :)

Duku
14-03-11, 16:51
Put it simply, if a developer enblocs your landed, say your landed is 1500 sqft land, and the height restriction for the area is 5 storeys, the developer can actually build 4 storeys or 4 units of 1200 sqft (3 bedders) or 8 units of 600 sqft (1 bedder), while ground floor is for parking.

.

By the way height restriction of 5 storeys = plot ratio of 1.4
For 1500psf , at most you can build 1500*1.4*1.1 = 2310

Impossible for 4800 psf

Otherwise, every interterrace could be enbloc...
For those landed houses that are build 3 + 1 floor, the rooftop psf does not include in the calculation (heard that from some developer) , thus the build in can be inflated as such.

wind30
15-03-11, 00:10
reminds me of sm1 who say avoid landed in telok kurau and go for true blue landed....and another one says got TK landed got enbloc potential....


I am thinking, telok kurau there has a plot ratio of 1.4 right?

I am not sure how this works but 1.4 seems to be a very low number. It seems to be worse than normal 3 storey mixed landed. I mean for 3 storey mixed landed, I can built 3 storey + attic which probably has much more built-in area than 1.4 plot ratio can.

Am I missing something here?

Duku
15-03-11, 02:29
I am thinking, telok kurau there has a plot ratio of 1.4 right?

I am not sure how this works but 1.4 seems to be a very low number. It seems to be worse than normal 3 storey mixed landed. I mean for 3 storey mixed landed, I can built 3 storey + attic which probably has much more built-in area than 1.4 plot ratio can.

Am I missing something here?

I think if you are buiding a house , you could build more than 1.4 as roof attic space is exempted from the plot ratio. Thus you still see 3 plus 1 floor houses in such areas. By the way build in an build up are different...

The plot ratio is more for potential spaces if you build a condo instead.

Blue
16-03-11, 15:47
By the way height restriction of 5 storeys = plot ratio of 1.4
For 1500psf , at most you can build 1500*1.4*1.1 = 2310

Impossible for 4800 psf

Otherwise, every interterrace could be enbloc...
For those landed houses that are build 3 + 1 floor, the rooftop psf does not include in the calculation (heard that from some developer) , thus the build in can be inflated as such.

Actually, I oso dunno how the max built-in area is being calculated. For mine, the built-in sqft is significantly higher than just land size x plot ratio. Perhaps the developer paid additional development charge, or perhaps some of the areas like voids, unsheltered car porch, yard, roof terrace, walkways not taken into consideration.

Aiyo, even for condos, the built in is also inflated. Say the unit is 1200psf but this includes voids, yards, walls, bay windows, patios, planter boxes & open terraces.

Blue
16-03-11, 15:50
Blue
I like you
If that ever happens in the next 2 years, i would be very thankful for analysis like this :spliff:

BTW, I also think landed is still underprice.... especially for land that are quoted less than liveable space.
Ie plot ratio 1.4?? Land price 900 psf vs nearby condo free hold 1800psf
Potential upside 100% + Plot Ratio upside 40% = 140 %???

So the real gem are those that that land price lesser than condo liveable space :)

Whether you like me or not, it doesnt matter. Most impt is you like your current landed, and how the price will appreciate in the near future.:2cents:

Of course, the other thing is as your house ages, the market value should also discounted. This goes the same for condo. Worst is those 99 yrs leaseholds. Yet, the freehold land value will always appreciate over time.

Blue
16-03-11, 15:58
This one good buy for the low land psf!

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/2392202

bargain hunter
16-03-11, 19:38
looks like 72 Jalan Gelenggang.

only drawbacks are the house is west facing and there is a hump in front of the house (noise from brake jamming and subsequent acceleration).


This one good buy for the low land psf!

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/2392202

tongccs
23-03-11, 01:01
I personally think that LH landed will somewhat stay 15-25% (max) behind FH landed properties in the same vicinity during both up/down economic cycles.
With the influx of new immigrants who may not be overly concerned with decreasing tenure as their home country only offer LH landed properties anyways.
Of course it depends on the age of the LH (<20 yrs) and the location.
For me, the upside is always there for landed as long as the area is slated for upgrading.
Other considerations like condition and asking psf of the target property.
Happy investing!

devilplate
23-03-11, 01:14
those 99LH landed at sembawang aso UP UP!

DC33_2008
23-03-11, 09:34
This could be people who upgrade from condo to landed in that vicinity. It is rather far for me. Prefer those closer to town.

proper-t
23-03-11, 09:49
I personally think that LH landed will somewhat stay 15-25% (max) behind FH landed properties in the same vicinity during both up/down economic cycles.
With the influx of new immigrants who may not be overly concerned with decreasing tenure as their home country only offer LH landed properties anyways.
Of course it depends on the age of the LH (<20 yrs) and the location.
For me, the upside is always there for landed as long as the area is slated for upgrading.
Other considerations like condition and asking psf of the target property.
Happy investing!

Agreed, although I think the disparity in prices may even be wider. Somehow I personally find much greater resistance in buying LH landed than LH condos/apts. For landed, I will only consider FH or 999. Although I may not live long enough to see the day, but for LH landed, my fear is that at the end of the 99 yr tenure, the tendency for the govt to reclaim yr plot of land and not allow lease extension will be greater than that for a condo/apt. I suppose it is easier to disappoint a few land owners than a few hundred households.

bullman
23-03-11, 11:04
Agreed, although I think the disparity in prices may even be wider. Somehow I personally find much greater resistance in buying LH landed than LH condos/apts. For landed, I will only consider FH or 999. Although I may not live long enough to see the day, but for LH landed, my fear is that at the end of the 99 yr tenure, the tendency for the govt to reclaim yr plot of land and not allow lease extension will be greater than that for a condo/apt. I suppose it is easier to disappoint a few land owners than a few hundred households.

There are quite a few 99 LH landed with 20-35 years left going at bargain prices (250-400) land psf. The problem with these units is there is almost no chance to top up land lease back to 99. Most of them belong to HDB rather than SLA. This is the case even when the surrounding plots of land could be FH or 999.

Nevertheless, if one were to calculate the potential gross rental collected at the end of the lease with respect to the purchase price, its still a great buy.

Fleur
23-03-11, 11:08
There are quite a few 99 LH landed with 20-35 years left going at bargain prices (250-400) land psf. The problem with these units is there is almost no chance to top up land lease back to 99. Most of them belong to HDB rather than SLA. This is the case even when the surrounding plots of land could be FH or 999.

Nevertheless, if one were to calculate the potential gross rental collected at the end of the lease with respect to the purchase price, its still a great buy.

How come they belong to HDB? What is the rationale? However, what is the point of the govt claiming back a small plot of land?

devilplate
23-03-11, 12:12
How come they belong to HDB? What is the rationale? However, what is the point of the govt claiming back a small plot of land?

mabe can build temple..etc?

devilplate
23-03-11, 12:13
There are quite a few 99 LH landed with 20-35 years left going at bargain prices (250-400) land psf. The problem with these units is there is almost no chance to top up land lease back to 99. Most of them belong to HDB rather than SLA. This is the case even when the surrounding plots of land could be FH or 999.

Nevertheless, if one were to calculate the potential gross rental collected at the end of the lease with respect to the purchase price, its still a great buy.

most of us bot ppty looking for capital gains mah....hehe

however, it will be appealing for companies to buy over such cheap landed for their workers to stay

bullman
25-03-11, 08:44
most of us bot ppty looking for capital gains mah....hehe

however, it will be appealing for companies to buy over such cheap landed for their workers to stay

Its actually another way of looking at it. For example, if the gross total rental income over the rest of lease is 4-5 times the purchase price, its still considered a good buy to me. However, one would need full cash in this kind of play as bank loan is not possible.

Localite
25-03-11, 10:42
Anyone has any idea why detached houses have shot up in price more than terrance and semi-ds?

devilplate
25-03-11, 10:45
Anyone has any idea why detached houses have shot up in price more than terrance and semi-ds?

rare in supply

hopeful
25-03-11, 13:30
There are quite a few 99 LH landed with 20-35 years left going at bargain prices (250-400) land psf. The problem with these units is there is almost no chance to top up land lease back to 99. Most of them belong to HDB rather than SLA. This is the case even when the surrounding plots of land could be FH or 999.

Nevertheless, if one were to calculate the potential gross rental collected at the end of the lease with respect to the purchase price, its still a great buy.


Its actually another way of looking at it. For example, if the gross total rental income over the rest of lease is 4-5 times the purchase price, its still considered a good buy to me. However, one would need full cash in this kind of play as bank loan is not possible.

20 years land lease 250psf
total gross rental over 20 years 4x purchase = 1000psf
gross rental per year 50psf
gross rental per month 4.17psf
gross yield per year = 50/250 = 20%


35 tears land lease 400psf
total gross rental over 35 years 4x purchase = 1600psf
gross rental per year 45.7psf
gross rental per month 3.8psf
gross yield per year = 45.7/400 = 11.42%


20 years land lease 250psf
total gross rental over 20 years 5x purchase = 1250psf
gross rental per year 62.5psf
gross rental per month 5.21psf
gross yield per year = 62.5/250 = 25%


35 tears land lease 400psf
total gross rental over 35 years 5x purchase = 2000psf
gross rental per year 57.1psf
gross rental per month 4.76psf
gross yield per year = 57.1/400 = 14.27%

if achievable, already salivating :)

bullman
25-03-11, 16:02
rare in supply

Many small time developers are also chasing such land to redevelop, thus driving up the prices. Some of them are old timers, what is hilarious would be those that bought without performing due diligence and ended with a land that cannot be re-developed.

bullman
25-03-11, 16:03
20 years land lease 250psf
total gross rental over 20 years 4x purchase = 1000psf
gross rental per year 50psf
gross rental per month 4.17psf
gross yield per year = 50/250 = 20%


35 tears land lease 400psf
total gross rental over 35 years 4x purchase = 1600psf
gross rental per year 45.7psf
gross rental per month 3.8psf
gross yield per year = 45.7/400 = 11.42%


20 years land lease 250psf
total gross rental over 20 years 5x purchase = 1250psf
gross rental per year 62.5psf
gross rental per month 5.21psf
gross yield per year = 62.5/250 = 25%


35 tears land lease 400psf
total gross rental over 35 years 5x purchase = 2000psf
gross rental per year 57.1psf
gross rental per month 4.76psf
gross yield per year = 57.1/400 = 14.27%

if achievable, already salivating :)


I only consider 250 psf with at least 30-35 years left., thus making the figures more tempting.

Localite
25-03-11, 17:22
By the way is there a premium for bungalow vs semi-D, how much? For example 5000 sqft bungalow vs 5000 sqft semi-D, if everything else is same but because of some reason like set-back one can be developed into bungalow and the other cannot, then what would the price diff be. 20%?

Similarly SemiD vs Terrace also 20%?

bargain hunter
25-03-11, 20:21
are there such blur developers? :ashamed1: anyway, the new rules hit them, requiring more cash upfront.


Many small time developers are also chasing such land to redevelop, thus driving up the prices. Some of them are old timers, what is hilarious would be those that bought without performing due diligence and ended with a land that cannot be re-developed.

proper-t
28-03-11, 10:58
Anyone has any idea why detached houses have shot up in price more than terrance and semi-ds?

Detached house have potential to be subdivided into semi-Ds or terraces hence the willingness for buyers to pay a premium and redevelop. Note that this does not apply for designated GCBs which cannot be sub-divided.

bullman
28-03-11, 11:41
Detached house have potential to be subdivided into semi-Ds or terraces hence the willingness for buyers to pay a premium and redevelop. Note that this does not apply for designated GCBs which cannot be sub-divided.

GCBs with a big enough land can be subdivided smaller GCBs.

devilplate
28-03-11, 11:45
GCBs with a big enough land can be subdivided smaller GCBs.

all super big GCBs r subdivisible?

bargain hunter
28-03-11, 12:09
all GCBs which after dividing will remain GCBs r subdivisible. eg min. 15,070*2, land must be at least 30,140 sq ft then can be divided lor. if big land of 25,000 sq ft not divisible.




all super big GCBs r subdivisible?

devilplate
28-03-11, 12:30
all GCBs which after dividing will remain GCBs r subdivisible. eg min. 15,070*2, land must be at least 30,140 sq ft then can be divided lor. if big land of 25,000 sq ft not divisible.

wah lau...rich can only become richer....den how about detached? all allowed to divide into pair of semi or even terrace if they fulfil the min land size requirement?

expect more MM landed to come...

bargain hunter
28-03-11, 14:19
yes, ONLY IF the area is not designated bunglow area.

ie if the area is designated bunglow (is there any such area left?) then cannot become semi. if designated semi then cannot become terrace.

if designated as mixed then free play for all.


wah lau...rich can only become richer....den how about detached? all allowed to divide into pair of semi or even terrace if they fulfil the min land size requirement?

expect more MM landed to come...

bullman
29-03-11, 08:49
yes, ONLY IF the area is not designated bunglow area.

ie if the area is designated bunglow (is there any such area left?) then cannot become semi. if designated semi then cannot become terrace.

if designated as mixed then free play for all.


According to my understanding which could be wrong, even if the area is zoned as mixed development, a semi d can only be subdivided into 2 semi ds, and not into a corner+ inter terrace. This is to protect the interest of the other semi d. In most of the cases which I have seen, the semi d is occupying a pretty large piece of land and a subdivision which satisfy the minimum land size is not an issue. In fact, the other semi d can be converted into a detached house, which requires a rebuild and following the set backs on all sides etc.

A huge corner terrace could be subdivided into a corner + x numbers of inter terrace houses. They must satisfy the minimum land size, e.g. 200 sqm for corner and 150 sqm for inter.

In both cases, do take note that besides the minimum land size, there is also a minimum frontage to consider. e.g. 8m for corner and 6m for inter etc. From my experience, its because of this rule that most existing land plots are not sub divisible, as most land plots are deep instead of wide.

bargain hunter
29-03-11, 09:21
oh yeah, thanks for the addition. for mixed landed zoning, pretty logical that a semi cannot become an inter + corner terrace as it downgrades the other semi to corner terrace status. :)



According to my understanding which could be wrong, even if the area is zoned as mixed development, a semi d can only be subdivided into 2 semi ds, and not into a corner+ inter terrace. This is to protect the interest of the other semi d. In most of the cases which I have seen, the semi d is occupying a pretty large piece of land and a subdivision which satisfy the minimum land size is not an issue. In fact, the other semi d can be converted into a detached house, which requires a rebuild and following the set backs on all sides etc.

A huge corner terrace could be subdivided into a corner + x numbers of inter terrace houses. They must satisfy the minimum land size, e.g. 200 sqm for corner and 150 sqm for inter.

In both cases, do take note that besides the minimum land size, there is also a minimum frontage to consider. e.g. 8m for corner and 6m for inter etc. From my experience, its because of this rule that most existing land plots are not sub divisible, as most land plots are deep instead of wide.

devilplate
29-03-11, 12:22
A huge corner terrace could be subdivided into a corner + x numbers of inter terrace houses. They must satisfy the minimum land size, e.g. 200 sqm for corner and 150 sqm for inter.



tks bro for ur insights...

however, can u explain y some terrace hse r less den 150sqm?:confused:
it was built b4 the 150sqm requirement?

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/3531734/for-sale-macpherson-garden-estate

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/3531218/for-sale-28-dido-street

btw, MM landed so ex hor....1k+psf for the land:scared-3:

bargain hunter
29-03-11, 12:56
yes, these landed areas were created long ago before the 150 sq m requirement. my friend bot a 9xx sq ft inter at 9xxk last year for rebuild in one such estate. she built it so that she cannot park any cars coz her family does not intend to ever own a car. :)


tks bro for ur insights...

however, can u explain y some terrace hse r less den 150sqm?:confused:
it was built b4 the 150sqm requirement?

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/3531734/for-sale-macpherson-garden-estate

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/3531218/for-sale-28-dido-street

btw, MM landed so ex hor....1k+psf for the land:scared-3:

bullman
29-03-11, 14:24
tks bro for ur insights...

however, can u explain y some terrace hse r less den 150sqm?:confused:
it was built b4 the 150sqm requirement?

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/3531734/for-sale-macpherson-garden-estate

http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/3531218/for-sale-28-dido-street

btw, MM landed so ex hor....1k+psf for the land:scared-3:

There are two explanations:

1) As bargain hunter has mentioned, some land titles were registered before the new ruling.
2) There are two types of terrace houses, Type 1 and Type 2. Type 1 terrace requires a minimum of 150 sqm while Type 2 terrace only requires 80 sqm. If I am not mistaken, only in some areas like Opera Estate, Macpherson area etc that type 2 terraces are allowed. I stand corrected as I have seen some really small rebuilt inter terrace at Duku road for sale now.

In my opinion, when you mention MM landed, I guess you are referring to Type 2 terrace? I think that a land size of 150 sqm is reasonable for an inter terrace house after taking into account the front and back setbacks.

bargain hunter
29-03-11, 15:02
i feel the 2153 sq ft semi-d is more MM. feels more like a terrace after the setback for the side.

traditionally, i know the really small ones are thomson garden and mcpherson garden. the next smallest ones (still below 150sq m min.) include the Nemesu area, Opera and maybe Duku area. the rest i m not sure already.


There are two explanations:

1) As bargain hunter has mentioned, some land titles were registered before the new ruling.
2) There are two types of terrace houses, Type 1 and Type 2. Type 1 terrace requires a minimum of 150 sqm while Type 2 terrace only requires 80 sqm. If I am not mistaken, only in some areas like Opera Estate, Macpherson area etc that type 2 terraces are allowed. I stand corrected as I have seen some really small rebuilt inter terrace at Duku road for sale now.

In my opinion, when you mention MM landed, I guess you are referring to Type 2 terrace? I think that a land size of 150 sqm is reasonable for an inter terrace house after taking into account the front and back setbacks.

land118
01-04-11, 10:00
One of the more newer Type 1 development in recent years is Golden hill villas

http://www.cdl.com.sg/cdl2.nsf/properties~GoldenhillVillas~default.htm

http://www.redas.com/html/showcasing/goldenhill/interior.html

81 FH terrace n 2 semi-ds, most land area 150-160sqm, build-in 300+ sqm.

Actually challenge is to find relatively square plot for landed less than 200sqm, frontage of about 10m, most are narrow frontage 8m or lesser and long....

bullman
01-04-11, 10:04
Actually challenge is to find relatively square plot for landed less than 200sqm, frontage of about 10m, most are narrow frontage 8m or lesser and long....

Pardon my ignorant question.

Why would anyone want to buy a landed of less than 200 sqm with a 10m frontage? There is no subdivision potential and most of the house will be facing the road in front? It will be pretty nice if its the last unit in a cul-de-sac. Otherwise, there is a severe lack of privacy?

land118
01-04-11, 10:41
Pardon my ignorant question.

Why would anyone want to buy a landed of less than 200 sqm with a 10m frontage? There is no subdivision potential and most of the house will be facing the road in front? It will be pretty nice if its the last unit in a cul-de-sac. Otherwise, there is a severe lack of privacy?
Personally I like wider frontage..., house brighter, more windows facing....as opposite to 6m frontage, 33m long/depth inter terrace. More length to park 2nd or 3rd car..., as for privacy, can always plant trees. Ask any agent dealing in landed, wider frontage is a plus point...

greenhorn
12-04-11, 18:26
:scared-3: Did you guys notice that landed asking prices have really shot up steeply since CNY? Condo prices only just creep up but landed are in run away prices mode. OmG!!! Looks like borderline upgraders will have to give up their S'pore dreams already? Landed owners are sitting on gold mines and are mostly holding on tightly to their gems. ;)

Fisherman
12-04-11, 19:17
:scared-3: Did you guys notice that landed asking prices have really shot up steeply since CNY? Condo prices only just creep up but landed are in run away prices mode. OmG!!! Looks like borderline upgraders will have to give up their S'pore dreams already? Landed owners are sitting on gold mines and are mostly holding on tightly to their gems. ;)

Not sure whether the higher asking prices are here to stay. Must see the caveats for the next few months to see whether higher prices for landed is sustainable.

Localite
25-04-11, 16:59
Not sure whether the higher asking prices are here to stay. Must see the caveats for the next few months to see whether higher prices for landed is sustainable.

Today landed is still very much restricted situation so the price is still in catch up mode. This is my view. Only a partial group of Singapore residents are allowed to buy landed, vs the full resident pool for condos. So as economy improves, and population increases, the partial group grows bigger, and will even grow even faster.

For example, if we hit a steady state population, say 6 mil due to immigrants, and over time most become Singaporeans, and these people can over time slowly start having the ability to buy landed. So there is still some room for appreciation in this segment.

Question in my mind is, what will the price of landed property be if the current restrictions were to be lifted. Scary.

teddybear
25-04-11, 19:40
Unlikely to have big surge because of many reasons. Only hear friends move from landed to condos, not from condos to landed. Another friend finally decided on the move to condo from landed again. Somehow they feel landed quality are poorer, lots of problems & maintenance & inconvenience. :beats-me-man:



Today landed is still very much restricted situation so the price is still in catch up mode. This is my view. Only a partial group of Singapore residents are allowed to buy landed, vs the full resident pool for condos. So as economy improves, and population increases, the partial group grows bigger, and will even grow even faster.

For example, if we hit a steady state population, say 6 mil due to immigrants, and over time most become Singaporeans, and these people can over time slowly start having the ability to buy landed. So there is still some room for appreciation in this segment.

Question in my mind is, what will the price of landed property be if the current restrictions were to be lifted. Scary.

Fisherman
25-04-11, 20:39
Unlikely to have big surge because of many reasons. Only hear friends move from landed to condos, not from condos to landed. Another friend finally decided on the move to condo from landed again. Somehow they feel landed quality are poorer, lots of problems & maintenance & inconvenience. :beats-me-man:

I tend to disagree. Many new citizens originate from countries with abundant land and they stay in landed properties. Over time, I believe they will go back to landed if they can afford because that's the lifestyle they were having back in their homeland. The same goes for expats who comes from US and Europe. Many expats love landed. That's why many expats rent landed properties to stay provided they have the budget.

DC33_2008
25-04-11, 21:06
Not sure what your friends meant by lots of maintenance. Instead of paying $200-$300 for the maintenance fee of a condo, use this money ($2400 - $3600) to maintain the house. Can park 2 -3 cars depends on the size your car porch without fighting over 2nd and 3rd car in a condo. I do not see the hassle.
Unlikely to have big surge because of many reasons. Only hear friends move from landed to condos, not from condos to landed. Another friend finally decided on the move to condo from landed again. Somehow they feel landed quality are poorer, lots of problems & maintenance & inconvenience. :beats-me-man:

land118
25-04-11, 21:57
Unlikely to have big surge because of many reasons. Only hear friends move from landed to condos, not from condos to landed. Another friend finally decided on the move to condo from landed again. Somehow they feel landed quality are poorer, lots of problems & maintenance & inconvenience. :beats-me-man:
I also disagree..., many plus to staying landed as what Fisherman and DC33 mention. For me personally, it is the convenient of coming straight to home without finding parking, no walking to the lift, chance to do gardening, sit around, look at the stars, holding BBQ without having to book pits. Of course, no sophisticated gym, pool, but compensate with country club membership. Most of my expats friends prefer landed if they stationed here with their families and with kids. Just that some are on local package...., so make do with condo.

devilplate
25-04-11, 23:18
i cant stay in landed for sure....always kena mozzie attack....how to do netting for the whole hse or aircon 24hrs...:(

angmor countries which dun hf mozzies problems will be ideal for landed:D

chiaberry
26-04-11, 00:19
i cant stay in landed for sure....always kena mozzie attack....how to do netting for the whole hse or aircon 24hrs...:(

angmor countries which dun hf mozzies problems will be ideal for landed:D

Can have magnetic mosquito screen for the whole house. That's what we are doing. Of course it's not so aesthetically pleasing but if you want to entertain, you can remove it easily (stuck on by magnets). We are surrounded by jungle on 2 sides (nature reserve land) and there are young kids at home so we need the screens. We also don't use air-con in the house so we need to keep the windows open.

kingkong1984
26-04-11, 06:21
add ceiling fans. Very cooling thereafter.

teddybear
26-04-11, 06:54
Expats will soon realize that living in landed in Singapore is very different from their own countries. Heard many then move to condos (big size ones, not MMs).
Living in condo need to look for parking? I only heard this from here. In fact, adv is can have big party at home without parking issues. Not possible with landed. Book BBQ so difficult mah? Only heard like striking lottery in this forum.
Country club good but not convenient compared to just downstairs.



I also disagree..., many plus to staying landed as what Fisherman and DC33 mention. For me personally, it is the convenient of coming straight to home without finding parking, no walking to the lift, chance to do gardening, sit around, look at the stars, holding BBQ without having to book pits. Of course, no sophisticated gym, pool, but compensate with country club membership. Most of my expats friends prefer landed if they stationed here with their families and with kids. Just that some are on local package...., so make do with condo.

land118
26-04-11, 07:28
Expats will soon realize that living in landed in Singapore is very different from their own countries. Heard many then move to condos (big size ones, not MMs).
Living in condo need to look for parking? I only heard this from here. In fact, adv is can have big party at home without parking issues. Not possible with landed. Book BBQ so difficult mah? Only heard like striking lottery in this forum.
Country club good but not convenient compared to just downstairs.
Well, condo parking is not personalized, no lot with number plate reserved for unit owner, as for BBQ pits, certainly food is right at doorstep for landed. Of course, if regular swimmers and fitness users of gym, then condo more convenient. For condo diehards, they will never want to stay landed. For some landed dwellers, after living on the ground, they will also prefer to stay put.

devilplate
26-04-11, 08:51
Well, condo parking is not personalized, no lot with number plate reserved for unit owner, as for BBQ pits, certainly food is right at doorstep for landed. Of course, if regular swimmers and fitness users of gym, then condo more convenient. For condo diehards, they will never want to stay landed. For some landed dwellers, after living on the ground, they will also prefer to stay put.

landed worthwhile if u hf big family of let say more den 4

its just doesnt make sense to pay more den 1.5mil for a 4bedder in a suburbs nowadays especially its 99LH.....landed gona be tough finding one below 2mil too....:banghead:

proud owner
26-04-11, 13:19
i cant stay in landed for sure....always kena mozzie attack....how to do netting for the whole hse or aircon 24hrs...:(

angmor countries which dun hf mozzies problems will be ideal for landed:D

if u live in landed and kana mozzie ... just call NEA ..they will come fumigate ...and they can do it on frequent basis ..

stl67
26-04-11, 13:43
if u live in landed and kana mozzie ... just call NEA ..they will come fumigate ...and they can do it on frequent basis ..

My parents-in-law house in Villa Verde has got very few incidents of mosquitoes while mine in Kovan area has got slightly more. Maybe 1 bite a week. But, my sister house in Seletar damn jiat lat.

Really dont know know where the mosquitoes come from. Heard from contractor that if the drain is filled with stagnant water it may caused breeding.:beats-me-man:

I stayed in Condo before and now Landed. Have to say that I like landed. Have a koi pond and also for 1 very silly reason: "On a hot day and perspiring, I can delay putting on my shirt till I hop onto the car with air-con on." To me this is a luxury I cant do it previously because pai seh mah....bare body in the condo lift and nothing to show except for 1 beer belly:ashamed1:

proud owner
26-04-11, 13:53
My parents-in-law house in Villa Verde has got very few incidents of mosquitoes while mine in Kovan area has got slightly more. Maybe 1 bite a week. But, my sister house in Seletar damn jiat lat.

Really dont know know where the mosquitoes come from. Heard from contractor that if the drain is filled with stagnant water it may caused breeding.:beats-me-man:

I stayed in Condo before and now Landed. Have to say that I like landed. Have a koi pond and also for 1 very silly reason: "On a hot day and perspiring, I can delay putting on my shirt till I hop onto the car with air-con on." To me this is a luxury I cant do it previously because pai seh mah....bare body in the condo lift and nothing to show except for 1 beer belly:ashamed1:

ahahha


i have lived in both condos and landed ...

and still own both ...

i must say ... i love landed ...
people say maintenance high ...where got ? as opposed to condo ..every mth $300-500 ..for the cleaner to sweep the lift lobby, the car park, the security guard, ... i really dont see the need to ...


BBQ , tennis court must book in advance ..
after BBQ still must clean up the place ..or else next mrng cleaner come knock on your door ...damn malu

GYM ..always alot of aunties ... using the treadmill wearing slippers ..
Pool ..got people wear sari in the jacuzzi

etc etc

pay money to see all these i very pek chek



landed

i can have bbq anytime i like ..

in the back yard , or front garden or my roof terrace
GYM , pool tennis = i go to my club

let what you say ... i can go bare body .. more than that sometimes ... hehehe


weekend i can sleep late .. no noisy swimming pool crowded with kids in adult pool

i can do gardening ..and when they bloom ... the satisfaction is unparalleled


i love my landed

Duku
26-04-11, 15:54
Having stayed in HDB, Condo and now landed.
I have only this to say

Nothing beats owning the land you step on.

Landed all the way!

devilplate
26-04-11, 16:30
if u live in landed and kana mozzie ... just call NEA ..they will come fumigate ...and they can do it on frequent basis ..

its useless for me...remember i m super prone to mozzies....i can get bitten up the whole body whereas my bunkmate got none?!?!

devilplate
26-04-11, 16:34
Having stayed in HDB, Condo and now landed.
I have only this to say

Nothing beats owning the land you step on.

Landed all the way!

its all in our mind;)

many upgradders dun really use gym/pool etc....but just feel happy and proud by staying in a condo or even landed

clemdale
26-04-11, 16:37
Having stayed in HDB, Condo and now landed.
I have only this to say

Nothing beats owning the land you step on.

Landed all the way!

I agree with both of you.. i now live in a condo having moved from a landed a few yrs back. my parents wanted to move because they felt the landed house was too big, thus too much housework, and with a garden, theres no end to the housework. in the end we moved to a condo; its much smaller, but my parents now say they prefer living in a landed house where theres so much more privacy... and i cant agree more with them!

devilplate
26-04-11, 17:48
I agree with both of you.. i now live in a condo having moved from a landed a few yrs back. my parents wanted to move because they felt the landed house was too big, thus too much housework, and with a garden, theres no end to the housework. in the end we moved to a condo; its much smaller, but my parents now say they prefer living in a landed house where theres so much more privacy... and i cant agree more with them!
Care to share wat u mean by privacy...

chiaberry
26-04-11, 18:04
Care to share wat u mean by privacy...

Can walk around bare-chested to the car without feeling paiseh (see post above by proud owner).

devil: you will be mozzie food in that state. LOLs :hungry:

DC33_2008
26-04-11, 18:28
But there is domestic helper and gardener.
I agree with both of you.. i now live in a condo having moved from a landed a few yrs back. my parents wanted to move because they felt the landed house was too big, thus too much housework, and with a garden, theres no end to the housework. in the end we moved to a condo; its much smaller, but my parents now say they prefer living in a landed house where theres so much more privacy... and i cant agree more with them!

teddybear
26-04-11, 19:18
See, told you to buy prime condos otherwise aunties wearing slippers hogging gym machines are what you get.
Go club won't have this problem but you pay extra monthly fees + membership fees & don't get swimming pool, tennis court, big spacious area for kids to run around in your backyard, still have to drive there! :doh:
Booking for BBQ & tennis so difficult meh? Just go online! You go club also need to book in advance in person some more.


ahahha


i have lived in both condos and landed ...

and still own both ...

i must say ... i love landed ...
people say maintenance high ...where got ? as opposed to condo ..every mth $300-500 ..for the cleaner to sweep the lift lobby, the car park, the security guard, ... i really dont see the need to ...


BBQ , tennis court must book in advance ..
after BBQ still must clean up the place ..or else next mrng cleaner come knock on your door ...damn malu

GYM ..always alot of aunties ... using the treadmill wearing slippers ..
Pool ..got people wear sari in the jacuzzi

etc etc

pay money to see all these i very pek chek



landed

i can have bbq anytime i like ..

in the back yard , or front garden or my roof terrace
GYM , pool tennis = i go to my club

let what you say ... i can go bare body .. more than that sometimes ... hehehe


weekend i can sleep late .. no noisy swimming pool crowded with kids in adult pool

i can do gardening ..and when they bloom ... the satisfaction is unparalleled


i love my landed

Localite
26-04-11, 21:09
Expats will soon realize that living in landed in Singapore is very different from their own countries. Heard many then move to condos (big size ones, not MMs).
Living in condo need to look for parking? I only heard this from here. In fact, adv is can have big party at home without parking issues. Not possible with landed. Book BBQ so difficult mah? Only heard like striking lottery in this forum.
Country club good but not convenient compared to just downstairs.

Landed ptty has wide range. How many ministers, top business man stay non-landed? Very few.

Localite
26-04-11, 21:26
See, told you to buy prime condos otherwise aunties wearing slippers hogging gym machines are what you get.
Go club won't have this problem but you pay extra monthly fees + membership fees & don't get swimming pool, tennis court, big spacious area for kids to run around in your backyard, still have to drive there! :doh:
Booking for BBQ & tennis so difficult meh? Just go online! You go club also need to book in advance in person some more.

The kind of space you get in landed you cannot get in condos lah.

Landed goes from 2k sqft (bottom 10%) to 5k sqft and above.....15k sqft at top 10%.

Condo goes from MM to 2k sqft at top 10%.

So how much space you want, how much is your budget, and what kind of lifestyle. As i said if you rank the top 1000 richest in Singapore i believe over 90% would live in landed.

I have some condos and live in a bungalow now. You somehow feel landed is more real, very satisfying. Hard to explain.

DC33_2008
26-04-11, 21:37
It is even more fulfilling to be involved in the design of your own house.
The kind of space you get in landed you cannot get in condos lah.

Landed goes from 2k sqft (bottom 10%) to 5k sqft and above.....15k sqft at top 10%.

Condo goes from MM to 2k sqft at top 10%.

So how much space you want, how much is your budget, and what kind of lifestyle. As i said if you rank the top 1000 richest in Singapore i believe over 90% would live in landed.

I have some condos and live in a bungalow now. You somehow feel landed is more real, very satisfying. Hard to explain.

azeoprop
26-04-11, 21:42
long long time ago stayed in old old landed...need to sleep with mosquito net.... :scared-3:

land118
26-04-11, 21:54
Can walk around bare-chested to the car without feeling paiseh (see post above by proud owner).

devil: you will be mozzie food in that state. LOLs :hungry: maybe bare chested and in boxers also can..haha:D

land118
26-04-11, 21:58
Landed ptty has wide range. How many ministers, top business man stay non-landed? Very few.
How about this scenario: PM stay in condo, where is the security guardhouse going to be? Next to the lift? Landed, so I see Security guard house/booth in front of house.

land118
26-04-11, 22:00
I have some condos and live in a bungalow now. You somehow feel landed is more real, very satisfying. Hard to explain. Landed not for everyone, either u love it or u don't like it, just like durian. But I like the way u describe it....:D

land118
26-04-11, 22:03
Nothing beats owning the land you step on.

Landed all the way! like the way u decribe..., sound like planting a flag on a new piece of land u just founded/stepped on.:D

focus
26-04-11, 22:06
How about this scenario: PM stay in condo, where is the security guardhouse going to be? Next to the lift? Landed, so I see Security guard house/booth in front of house.

Wa... I dream of the day I can be a micron Peter Lim..A whole condo for myself and family.

But I think I will be contented if I can build a 3.5storey house for multigenerational living. :)

land118
26-04-11, 22:09
long long time ago stayed in old old landed...need to sleep with mosquito net.... :scared-3:
Well, with proper maintenance, pest control, can keep bugs away. Even though I have pest control contractor to check regularly, I just got 3 ultrasonic devices installed that supposedly keep bugs and even rats away. Kinda of skeptical at first but in the last month, places where I used to see lizard shit,etc, not no more. Won't say 100% eradicate but I think bugs probably no different from staying in condo...:D

land118
26-04-11, 22:11
Wa... I dream of the day I can be a micron Peter Lim..A whole condo for myself and family.

But I think I will be contented if I can build a 3.5storey house for multigenerational living. :)
That one, is landed and condo combined into one. Landed also his, whole block also his.....

devilplate
26-04-11, 22:20
Landed ptty has wide range. How many ministers, top business man stay non-landed? Very few.

do not stereotype:tsk-tsk:

remember seeing a buyer having HDB address bot 2xmil GCB?

there is a difference between a person driving a fully paid 3series or budget car vs a 90% loan 7series driver

maisonjai
26-04-11, 22:20
its useless for me...remember i m super prone to mozzies....i can get bitten up the whole body whereas my bunkmate got none?!?!

ur blood "Highagain", mozzies know where to get free booze..:cheers5:

devilplate
26-04-11, 22:23
ur blood "Highagain", mozzies know where to get free booze..:cheers5:

so its my fault lor...thanks wor:(

5577
26-04-11, 22:26
its useless for me...remember i m super prone to mozzies....i can get bitten up the whole body whereas my bunkmate got none?!?!

Devilplate,

I believe you have slightly higher body temperature than most of us. That's why mozzies are attracted to you. Try getting mozzie patches for your self.

Or you can grow lemongrass, basil, citronella, rosemary and catnips around the house. If you do not have green fingers, essential oil with the above herbs in a burner will also work. :)

devilplate
26-04-11, 22:29
Devilplate,

I believe you have slightly higher body temperature than most of us. That's why mozzies are attracted to you. Try getting mozzie patches for your self.

Or you can grow lemongrass, basil, citronella, rosemary and catnips around the house. If you do not have green fingers, essential oil with the above herbs in a burner will also work. :)

believe it anot....i almost guaranteed got mozzie bites when viewing landed houses:doh:

i stay in my humble apt...no problems....

can i bring all these during my next in-camp? hehe.....wait they say i 'sister'....haha:ashamed1:

anyway tks;)

5577
26-04-11, 22:38
believe it anot....i almost guaranteed got mozzie bites when viewing landed houses:doh:

i stay in my humble apt...no problems....

can i bring all these during my next in-camp? hehe.....wait they say i 'sister'....haha:ashamed1:

anyway tks;)

The mozzie patch will work for you if you go viewing landed or go for in camp. It's a small round sticker patch. So very discreet. No one will notice if you stick it at hemline of your uniform. My other half will bring one if he needs to step into mozzie infested jungle.

devilplate
26-04-11, 22:47
The mozzie patch will work for you if you go viewing landed or go for in camp. It's a small round sticker patch. So very discreet. No one will notice if you stick it at hemline of your uniform. My other half will bring one if he needs to step into mozzie infested jungle.

noted wif tks;)

5577
26-04-11, 22:59
Btw, back to the topic on landed pity, I was told that a certain distrct is plague by termites. It is my goal to secure a landed in that particular district in the future. But now, I gotta think twice or many times.

Anyone has encountered this issue before? Any solution?

devilplate
26-04-11, 23:12
Btw, back to the topic on landed pity, I was told that a certain distrct is plague by termites. It is my goal to secure a landed in that particular district in the future. But now, I gotta think twice or many times.

Anyone has encountered this issue before? Any solution?

sis, which district u eyeing?

i personally like frankel estate....but px shoot up so much oredi:(

devilplate
26-04-11, 23:17
http://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/3748056/for-sale-frankel-estate

got $$ can build anything u want....pool? gym? sauna?

5577
26-04-11, 23:18
sis, which district u eyeing?

i personally like frankel estate....but px shoot up so much oredi:(

I pm u the district. Dun want to name that area in case ppl think that I am helping to spread rumors. Words has it that it is so bad that the termites always come back even after pest control activities. Seems like the ground there is very conducive for their habitat.