View Full Version : To buy from Sales Launches or Sub-Sale, resale?
cheongster
06-12-10, 10:22
Was wondering, what is the main difference - Advantages/Diadvantages of purchasing from Sales Launches and Sub-sale/resale in this current environment of Govt policy change?
rattydrama
06-12-10, 10:49
re-sale or sub sale can be worth looking at right now. my2cents
A good buy will always be a good buy regardless new launch subsale or resale. Those should not be main determining factor. Now good buy may be one that is well kept yet below market value. Or one that is fetching high rental yield now and from history. Or one that is located in upcoming development region. Or an old project that is very high chance to enbloc yet selling for fair value. Obviously if you cant wait then new launches are out.
kingkong1984
06-12-10, 11:03
Was wondering, what is the main difference - Advantages/Diadvantages of purchasing from Sales Launches and Sub-sale/resale in this current environment of Govt policy change?
Cheongster... by the number of your posts and the date that you joined. You are fresh in this forum. But I am not saying that you are a freshie in the real world. The question that you asked are real serious questions.
To have answers, really easy to study the similarities to this situation
1. You bought a rolex at $10k a year ago (resale, subsale now)
2. New rolex are now priced at $15k (new launch)
3. Both are new, just one bought earlier and the other later (un-used and un-occupied).
4. Designs could differ, as older design with bay windows and newer design without bay windows.
5. Location is the same for comparision sake
What else would you need to ask?
Get a $10k rolex lah.
If new rolex are $5k... same model... dun need to think, you have the answers. I am not talking about 2nd hand ones as in used ones. Draw your own conclusions please.
cheongster
06-12-10, 11:14
Cheongster... by the number of your posts and the date that you joined. You are fresh in this forum. But I am not saying that you are a freshie in the real world. The question that you asked are real serious questions.
To have answers, really easy to study the similarities to this situation
1. You bought a rolex at $10k a year ago (resale, subsale now)
2. New rolex are now priced at $15k (new launch)
3. Both are new, just one bought earlier and the other later (un-used and un-occupied).
4. Designs could differ, as older design with bay windows and newer design without bay windows.
5. Location is the same for comparision sake
What else would you need to ask?
Get a $10k rolex lah.
If new rolex are $5k... same model... dun need to think, you have the answers. I am not talking about 2nd hand ones as in used ones. Draw your own conclusions please.
I guess that is only true if the price is always going up without occasional downside (i am not saying it wouldn't be)
The only prices that increases every year regardless of the world economies are my new rolex prices and my wife's coveted new LV bags.
Anyway, my real question then would be your $10 rolex would not be selling at $15 even though the new one is selling at $15 right? Also what about $ lost to rental yield and the $interest lost while waiting for it to be constructed since Govt doesn't allow deferred payment scheme now?
kingkong1984
06-12-10, 11:29
sorry dun understand.. cannot find $10 rolex lah.
You have to ask your agent to explain it to you.
Cheers
stalingrad
06-12-10, 11:34
Prices at developers' launches are higher because the buyers are mostly speculators, and what they buy are not entire condos, but rather options to buy condos. as simple as that.
so if you are genuine home buyers, buy on the resale market, where prices are lower.
cheongster
06-12-10, 11:58
hi,
i am genuinely confused.
If speculators are out for profit at developer's launch, then why would the resale market prices (later on) by lower?
Prices at developers' launches are higher because the buyers are mostly speculators, and what they buy are not entire condos, but rather options to buy condos. as simple as that.
so if you are genuine home buyers, buy on the resale market, where prices are lower.
Newer design without bay windows but bigger balconies (10% of your unit's size) + much much bigger air-con ledges! :doh:
Cheongster... by the number of your posts and the date that you joined. You are fresh in this forum. But I am not saying that you are a freshie in the real world. The question that you asked are real serious questions.
To have answers, really easy to study the similarities to this situation
1. You bought a rolex at $10k a year ago (resale, subsale now)
2. New rolex are now priced at $15k (new launch)
3. Both are new, just one bought earlier and the other later (un-used and un-occupied).
4. Designs could differ, as older design with bay windows and newer design without bay windows.
5. Location is the same for comparision sake
What else would you need to ask?
Get a $10k rolex lah.
If new rolex are $5k... same model... dun need to think, you have the answers. I am not talking about 2nd hand ones as in used ones. Draw your own conclusions please.
kingkong1984
06-12-10, 13:14
Yup, never end.... Next time include corridor and sell it to u.
Yup, never end.... Next time include corridor and sell it to u.
Developers already do that in HK lol
kingkong1984
06-12-10, 14:39
yup, i know... learnt from this forum.
Maybe developer can sell you the rubbish chute space also along common corridor.
Hahaha so funny.
hi,
i am genuinely confused.
If speculators are out for profit at developer's launch, then why would the resale market prices (later on) by lower?
The whole point is that the buyers expect the price to go higher. In a property market uprun, the older projects will lag in prices to new launches. And if the price gap is too big too fast, some would say it is a sign that a bubble is forming.
If you ask me why there are pp buying new launches instead of previous launches and nearby brand new ones, I would think that there are some buyers who don't really do enough homework on the surrounding projects and were attracted by advertisements, showflats and other marketing effort. Some are also choosy in terms of facing (fengshui), view, floors etc whereby such units are not available in the secondary market now.some rush to buy thinking that their choice units will be taken up soon by others or the developers will increase the price soon. Such rather seemingly illogical happening is common when the property market is on the uptrend.
The premium for developer’s launch is much higher than resale, based on current launches. I personally find better value in resale in the current market.
LH versus FH. LH resale means there is less time, hence value left. If it’s FH, the age isn’t that critical. Use the money saved from buying resale (significant discount against new) to totally revamp the place.
On the issue of design, there are older developments with nicer design than some of the newer developments. It’s a matter of your personal taste and your ability to see beyond what is trendy and what is timeless.
URA is always changing their rules on area calculation.
First they allowed planters, then they relaxed ruling on bay windows, then they allowed balconies. Then they disallowed planters and bay windows…. Sigh…
It used to make sense to buy new, when the deferred payment scheme was available. Profits are high with the leverage afforded by the 20% down payment. Now, the best rates offered by the banks for the 1st couple of years is not quite capitalized given the low draw up during the initial period.
Buying from developers also means not dealing with greedy sellers. I have encountered sellers that moved the price after you have made an offer matching what they have asked. It’s quite disgusting. Hmmm… what is worse, dealing with greedy sellers or greedy developers….
My random, unorganized thoughts on the issue.:)
proud owner
06-12-10, 23:08
The whole point is that the buyers expect the price to go higher. In a property market uprun, the older projects will lag in prices to new launches. And if the price gap is too big too fast, some would say it is a sign that a bubble is forming.
If you ask me why there are pp buying new launches instead of previous launches and nearby brand new ones, I would think that there are some buyers who don't really do enough homework on the surrounding projects and were attracted by advertisements, showflats and other marketing effort. Some are also choosy in terms of facing (fengshui), view, floors etc whereby such units are not available in the secondary market now.some rush to buy thinking that their choice units will be taken up soon by others or the developers will increase the price soon. Such rather seemingly illogical happening is common when the property market is on the uptrend.
another reason is that ...
if you buy resale .. you start to pay mortgage immediately
if you buy new launch.. you only pay 20 pct .. and start to service only 20 pct of the whole mortgage .. and as the construction progresses ..you pay more and more until the full disbursement of the 80(70pct) ...
this way .. you pay 'less' to buy time for cap appreciation ..
devilplate
06-12-10, 23:12
another reason is that ...
if you buy resale .. you start to pay mortgage immediately
if you buy new launch.. you only pay 20 pct .. and start to service only 20 pct of the whole mortgage .. and as the construction progresses ..you pay more and more until the full disbursement of the 80(70pct) ...
this way .. you pay 'less' to buy time for cap appreciation ..
exactly....and some investors dun like to rent out/deal with tenants....they only go for cap appreciation....buy flour and den sell bread:D
and all buy same price or later phase price increase even better ....if price crash all die tgt!:p
kingkong1984
07-12-10, 05:04
Buy an option, sell a dream, serve your buyer, get your cream, serve the seller, get your drink.
I believe resale for new launchers tend to be easier to sell than used ones.
This could be one of the key reasons why people are buying new launches. They are buying a hope. Hope the price will increase when TOP with leverage from the bank.
another reason is that ...
if you buy resale .. you start to pay mortgage immediately
if you buy new launch.. you only pay 20 pct .. and start to service only 20 pct of the whole mortgage .. and as the construction progresses ..you pay more and more until the full disbursement of the 80(70pct) ...
this way .. you pay 'less' to buy time for cap appreciation ..
devilplate
07-12-10, 08:43
This could be one of the key reasons why people are buying new launches. They are buying a hope. Hope the price will increase when TOP with leverage from the bank.
i hf been buying hope den:ashamed1:
Your hope is being realised so far?
My view is depend on area and the reason behind the buying, if for own stay like some area, upgrader or 1st time owners if they can afford(money and time), they will go for new one, I have friends who prefer new one as they prefer the new furnishings and use the toilet brand new(toilet seat etc...)...maybe that is the reason why it can be related to buying used car or new car(be it continental or japanese)depending on individual perception of value.:2cents:
kingkong1984
07-12-10, 09:55
My view is depend on area and the reason behind the buying, if for own stay like some area, upgrader or 1st time owners if they can afford(money and time), they will go for new one, I have friends who prefer new one as they prefer the new furnishings and use the toilet brand new(toilet seat etc...)...maybe that is the reason why it can be related to buying used car or new car(be it continental or japanese)depending on individual perception of value.:2cents:
Excellent remarks.
Location specific. If that location has new condo's, buy new condos,
If that new condo are very expansive, buy ready built older ones
If ready built old ones cannot make it, used tiolet seat...
Then buy those under construction, no tiolet seat...
If cannot afford those under construction, dun buy and just use the seat when you go visiting
Lastly, use government provided tiolet seats... very nice and cheap.
cheongster
07-12-10, 10:11
But that was when there is Deferred Payment Scheme right?
Now? :beats-me-man:
This could be one of the key reasons why people are buying new launches. They are buying a hope. Hope the price will increase when TOP with leverage from the bank.
Now with low interest and pay only 20-30% downpayment and leverage 80-70% from bank. Worth betting for younger people. Worst scenario stay in Condo, rent from HDB to pay for loan and take top up the rest with cash. Garmen has opened this gate for HDB.
But that was when there is Deferred Payment Scheme right?
Now? :beats-me-man:
cheongster
07-12-10, 10:44
now if you have HDB - Government says must stay and rent out your Condo...not the other way round.
Now with low interest and pay only 20-30% downpayment and leverage 80-70% from bank. Worth betting for younger people. Worst scenario stay in Condo, rent from HDB to pay for loan and take top up the rest with cash. Garmen has opened this gate for HDB.
devilplate
07-12-10, 10:51
Your hope is being realised so far?
i am sure u buy with hope as well
Wild Falcon
07-12-10, 11:01
Is there correct? Apparently, as long as you satisfy your 5 year MOP, you can stay condo and rent HDB. Lots of people do that, including this YPAP PR who receive a lot of flak.
now if you have HDB - Government says must stay and rent out your Condo...not the other way round.
devilplate
07-12-10, 11:03
now if you have HDB - Government says must stay and rent out your Condo...not the other way round.
u r outdated bro....hehe
Wild Falcon
07-12-10, 11:06
Depends on the individuals. I prefer to buy something I can see and touch, and without too much duress. If you can view the units in your own sweet time and negotiate one-on-one. It's more intimate and sometimes u can feel "yes, this is my house."
Others may prefer the "crowd" at a showflat and looking at "models" - balloting etc makes one feel that there much "value" in that thing. It's like queuing for Hello Kitty toys - there must be a reason why there is a crowd? I think it give some "comfort" in numbers. Also, the furnishings will definitely look better in a "showflat" then a resale flat. One just have to bear in mind that at the end of the day, you're getting the bare walls and some fixtures. Also, some people have not saved enough yet. Buying from a showflat allows them to save in the next 3-4 years before the house TOP. Buying a resale means you MUST have the means to buy TODAY.
And both strategy can make money.
cheongster
07-12-10, 11:08
oh my...i am really outdated then.
What about resale HDB...must also stay 5year MOP?
Where to search for this information?
Is there correct? Apparently, as long as you satisfy your 5 year MOP, you can stay condo and rent HDB. Lots of people do that, including this YPAP PR who receive a lot of flak.
devilplate
07-12-10, 11:11
oh my...i am really outdated then.
What about resale HDB...must also stay 5year MOP?
Where to search for this information?
dun be lazy:p
www.hdb.gov.sg (http://www.hdb.gov.sg)
happy reading:D
cheongster
07-12-10, 11:14
But i really heard that if you have a HDB and a Condo. You cannot stay in Condo and rent out your HDB even if you qualify for the 5yrs MOP. :hell-hath-no-fury:
devilplate
07-12-10, 11:17
But i really heard that if you have a HDB and a Condo. You cannot stay in Condo and rent out your HDB even if you qualify for the 5yrs MOP. :hell-hath-no-fury:
u heard rite? from who? HDB officer?
read the link lah aiyo....last time MOP 10yrs leh....resale w/o grant 3yrs can rent out liao blah blah:p
cheongster
07-12-10, 11:18
not that i lazy...but i get lost easily in the HDB web:2cents: ,,,,go see yourself.. :)
u heard rite? from who? HDB officer?
read the link lah aiyo....last time MOP 10yrs leh....resale w/o grant 3yrs can rent out liao blah blah:p
Sure. The difference is whether it is a short, mid-term or long-term hope.
i am sure u buy with hope as well
rattydrama
07-12-10, 13:00
If you buy re-sale you must hold for 5 years. During this period, you cannot buy condo which means you will need to stay in the flat for 5 years.:spliff:
Buy resale only if good location x3, rentable in future. eg. near MRT and close to amenities and near to town.
Actually I find more will go into ECs now.
oh my...i am really outdated then.
What about resale HDB...must also stay 5year MOP?
Where to search for this information?
If you buy re-sale you must hold for 5 years. During this period, you cannot buy condo which means you will need to stay in the flat for 5 years.:spliff:
Buy resale only if good location x3, rentable in future. eg. near MRT and close to amenities and near to town.
Actually I find more will go into ECs now.
Buyers are going into EC,even if need to hold for 5yrs as long there are condo facilities to enjoy. Furthermore prices are affordable,compared to resale condos,or even new launches. SO why not?
But i really heard that if you have a HDB and a Condo. You cannot stay in Condo and rent out your HDB even if you qualify for the 5yrs MOP. :hell-hath-no-fury:
If that is true wont it wipe out the entire HDB rental market? Where the PR and FT going to find low cost housing?
In fact with the latest measures, owners now cannot keep their HDB after upgrading to Condo. Supply of HDB rental units will start to drop and thus drive up rental.
If rental were to go up, yeild go up. Wont that make HDB more desirable again and thus cause another price hike...??? hm...
Looks like those currently staying in Condo but has a HDB are the winners.
Hope MBT knows what he is doing....
If that is true wont it wipe out the entire HDB rental market? Where the PR and FT going to find low cost housing?
In fact with the latest measures, owners now cannot keep their HDB after upgrading to Condo. Supply of HDB rental units will start to drop and thus drive up rental.
If rental were to go up, yeild go up. Wont that make HDB more desirable again and thus cause another price hike...??? hm...
Looks like those currently staying in Condo but has a HDB are the winners.
Hope MBT knows what he is doing....
With the measures, HDB owners can get additional pte pty as long as MOP is met. But not vice versa unless they sell off the Pte.
rattydrama
07-12-10, 13:38
Buyers are going into EC,even if need to hold for 5yrs as long there are condo facilities to enjoy. Furthermore prices are affordable,compared to resale condos,or even new launches. SO why not?
Yes, agree and there are 20K new marriages each year so need to correspondence with this real demand, ie not enough cash for downpayment.
If there are influx of foreigners, more incentive for HDB up-grader to upgrade cos they can sell at profits. At some point better located areas will hold price at premium be it HDB, ECs or Private.
rattydrama
07-12-10, 13:44
With the measures, HDB owners can get additional pte pty as long as MOP is met. But not vice versa unless they sell off the Pte.
I plan to downgrade to smaller HDB flat but the 30 Aug ruling killed my plan. :simmering: I'm against all guru advice here and sold my flat at peak price :) and the price may not happen again (unless there is huge shortage on supply) for my flat size due to age, location and noise.
But i really heard that if you have a HDB and a Condo. You cannot stay in Condo and rent out your HDB even if you qualify for the 5yrs MOP. :hell-hath-no-fury:
If that is true wont it wipe out the entire HDB rental market? Where the PR and FT going to find low cost housing?
In fact with the latest measures, owners now cannot keep their HDB after upgrading to Condo. Supply of HDB rental units will start to drop and thus drive up rental.
If rental were to go up, yeild go up. Wont that make HDB more desirable again and thus cause another price hike...??? hm...
Looks like those currently staying in Condo but has a HDB are the winners.
Hope MBT knows what he is doing....
this is so not true... MOP fulfilled, can rent out liao
MOP 3 or 5 yrs, depended on when u bought the hdb, and from hdb or resale.
rattydrama
07-12-10, 14:43
that is correct and after 30 Aug is 5 year.....MOP
Back to opening post.
Buy resale.
Live example. I bought a resale in Sept 07 in CBD, valuation is now 30% above what i paid then. Had I bought from developer i probably just broke even or still under.
It's difficult to make general comments on which is better. It boils down to the development. Purchase subsale unit in the CCR in 3rd quarter of 2008 and now the valuation price is up 45% with rental yield of more than 5%. A resale unit in CBD bought early this year has valuation of 25% above purchase price and reasonable rental yield of 4%. It boils down to the development and cannot be generalised.
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