View Full Version : Sell HDB or Keep?
Hi,
First post here. I usually don't pay too much attention to property so but recently I thought of purchasing a new private property. I current stay in a HDB and am wondering if I should keep my HDB and buy another private property or if I should sell the HDB for a higher budget?
I am looking at a 1.5m property at the moment. I will be able to buy the place if I sell my HDB now, or I can wait approximately 1 year to accumulate enough for the the 1.5m unit without selling my HDB flat. However, I fear the price of private property skyrocketing if I were to wait for one year
Anyone can throw some advise here?
devilplate
27-10-10, 09:20
Hi,
First post here. I usually don't pay too much attention to property so but recently I thought of purchasing a new private property. I current stay in a HDB and am wondering if I should keep my HDB and buy another private property or if I should sell the HDB for a higher budget?
I am looking at a 1.5m property at the moment. I will be able to buy the place if I sell my HDB now, or I can wait approximately 1 year to accumulate enough for the the 1.5m unit without selling my HDB flat. However, I fear the price of private property skyrocketing if I were to wait for one year
Anyone can throw some advise here?
reduce ur ppty budget:2cents:
Same old question: own stay or investment? If investment, why buy a huge chunk of 1.5mil. I feel you should break it up and dont put all eggs in same basket. Unless its golden eggs in diamond basket sure win.
devilplate
27-10-10, 10:15
Same old question: own stay or investment? If investment, why buy a huge chunk of 1.5mil. I feel you should break it up and dont put all eggs in same basket. Unless its golden eggs in diamond basket sure win.
tats y u have MMs all over SG:D
Thanks for responding... Its actually mean for investment initially and then own stay for a couple of years but the story goes like this...
The main motivation of buying the place is to be within 1km of the school we wanted, and unfortunately, the properties around that area are around 1.2 - 1.5 with 1.2 being 99 years so I try not to go that route, and the 1.5 being freehold and near to future MRT
The thing is I can afford the 1.5 place now if I sell my HDB.. but that will mean it's for own stay in that case... I will however prefer to keep my HDB and buy one for investment for first a couple of years.. then move in later to register for school
So I can either sell hdb and buy now, hold hdb and buy a 99year condo, or wait 1 year and I will be able to afford to hold the hdb and buy the 1.5 unit I wanted...
Unfortunately... if the property goes above 1.5 (1.6-1.7) it might be too much for me to take. At the same time, it is very important to me to own a place there given that I wanted to be within 1km of that school...
any advise? I'm stupid when it comes to property and investment sorry in advance if the answer is obvious
Dude, nowadays with our increase in population density, people even need to ballot despite slaving for the school as parent volunteer. So w/i 1 km is no guarantee of a place especially in popular schools. You can check the recent and historical balloting history at kiasuparents.com. Maybe that may sway your decision a little.
Dude, nowadays with our increase in population density, people even need to ballot despite slaving for the school as parent volunteer. So w/i 1 km is no guarantee of a place especially in popular schools. You can check the recent and historical balloting history at kiasuparents.com. Maybe that may sway your decision a little.
Yup I'm aware of that already... which is why I'm quite cautious about selecting a property which has investment value at the same time. So if the school thing doesn't work out, at least I can get some returns from the property through invesment... even though I know it's not the best thing to do as far as investment is concern, it will meet my needs for this purpose...
so the question is... is it wise to keep HDB in the first place? or there's no point in keeping HDB despite the new policy?
Personally, I am all for retaining the HDB flat. I will never give up my own HDB apartment. Very hard to buy back if I let it go, especially with so many (new) restrictions on buying and owning HDB apts.
More than 80% of Singapore's population live in HDB flats, with 95% of them owning their HDB flat and the government has to take care of them. Even though it is only 99LH,there is intrinsic value in HDB.
Think carefully of all possible future scenarios - future economic conditions, job stability, alternate schools, interest rates, etc. before you make a concrete decision. :2cents:
devilplate
27-10-10, 14:43
Yup I'm aware of that already... which is why I'm quite cautious about selecting a property which has investment value at the same time. So if the school thing doesn't work out, at least I can get some returns from the property through invesment... even though I know it's not the best thing to do as far as investment is concern, it will meet my needs for this purpose...
so the question is... is it wise to keep HDB in the first place? or there's no point in keeping HDB despite the new policy?
is ur HDB near any MRT(within 500m)? if yes, pls dun sell
there r many gd schools....not necessary die die must get ppty near tat particular sch rite? stretching ur budget till max max and slaving to pay ur housing loan in future is a no-no:tsk-tsk: ....get cheaper mass market condo ard 1mil or less and keep ur HDB for rental(HDB rental is very gd provided ur flat near MRT)....at the same time u will hf spare cash to get the best tutor for ur kids:D
Garment has already relax the rental rule of HDB to enable them to make some money. People residing in HDB always get more ang pao money from Ah Kong. Recently, my children get even less edusave top up as it is pegged to NAV of home of residence. Hence, it is good to keep the HDB flat.
Wild Falcon
27-10-10, 15:07
As I can see, nobody can advise you as the main motivation for buying the property is not investment-related or trying to improve your quality of life but trying to get your child into an elite school. As to what "price" and "sacrifice" you wanna make to get your child into an elite school, only you yourself have the answer. Frankly, I don't think prices will "shoot through the roof".
I'm getting really good insight here thanks guys... maybe I should name the properties I'm looking at, if that helps in the analysis...
My HDB is not near the MRT at all and it takes about 5 mins bus ride. I do however see quite a few tenants staying at rented flats in my block...
I'm inclined toward keeping the HDB for sure but I'm just so worried about the property prices skyrocketing beyond my reach for the area I want... sigh.. it sucks to be at the lower end of middle class
I'm looking at either Duchess Crest (99 years) for ~1.2 (no need to sell HDB) or (The Levelz) for ~1.5 (sell HDB)... or holding for 1 year then trying The Levelz again hopefully at the same price but I fear the price to be in the 1.6-1.7 range by then...
It's sounding like I should keep the HDB!
So! You are targetting at Nanyang Pri. Not easy unless you are affiliated. My niece and nephews are there.
i would recommend keep HDB and rent it out.
then stay at condo!
WIN-WIN for you. :D
nanyang pri is tough to get in lor~
but good luck. it is a good primary sch.
Yes I'm targeting NYPS and will do whatever I can for a shot at it... I truly envy those who are affiliated but that's a topic for another forum...
In that case maybe I should seriously consider getting Duchess Crest and renting out the HDB...
rattydrama
27-10-10, 15:57
Rent a condo within 1km at NYPS and stay there for 2 years before the enrollment. My colleague just did that some 6 years ago. Rent out your HDB. Buy property in other areas where there are more potential and which you can afford.
Understand somewhere in this forum for many years Duchess Crest price never go up until recently – maybe the price will stay there forever and ever?
Yes I'm targeting NYPS and will do whatever I can for a shot at it... I truly envy those who are affiliated but that's a topic for another forum...
In that case maybe I should seriously consider getting Duchess Crest and renting out the HDB...
Rent a condo within 1km at NYPS and stay there for 2 years before the enrollment. My colleague just did that some 6 years ago. Rent out your HDB. Buy property in other areas where there are more potential and which you can afford.
Understand somewhere in this forum for many years Duchess Crest price never go up until recently – maybe the price will stay there forever and ever?
I thought of that option too but I'll keep that as a last resort.. I even considered getting 5 room HDB flat there! I noticed that Duchess's price doesn't really go up as well.. which is why I have been spending more time considering Levelz until recently... I'll have a look at Duchess Crest tomorrow first and hopefully I can be more clear headed after that...
rattydrama
27-10-10, 16:20
Let me know your field report after yr viewing. Thanks!!
Those D9,10, 11 for own stay. Rental yield not attractive. Its more for capital appreciation. However, the psf all time high now ........erm.
You need to pay for it if you stay there could be easi easi 4k/month.
I thought of that option too but I'll keep that as a last resort.. I even considered getting 5 room HDB flat there! I noticed that Duchess's price doesn't really go up as well.. which is why I have been spending more time considering Levelz until recently... I'll have a look at Duchess Crest tomorrow first and hopefully I can be more clear headed after that...
you seem to have liquidity right now of about $360k. thus i would either sell the flat and get condo, or keept the flat and forego condo. not safe to get both
you seem to have liquidity right now of about $360k. thus i would either sell the flat and get condo, or keept the flat and forego condo. not safe to get both
hi don't rili understd tis liquidity part.. Possible to explain pls? Thks in advance
means he seems to have only $360k max in cash+cpf.
you seem to have liquidity right now of about $360k. thus i would either sell the flat and get condo, or keept the flat and forego condo. not safe to get both
Hi, can you explain a little more on why it's not safe to have both? Is it because the liquidity is too low? If I keep the HDB and got a condo I am making the assumption that I can rent out either one for some pocket money
Hi, can you explain a little more on why it's not safe to have both? Is it because the liquidity is too low? If I keep the HDB and got a condo I am making the assumption that I can rent out either one for some pocket money
because you are buying at a peak. if QE2 doesn't come up to expectations next week and i don't think it will meet the street, then it might trigger a downhill trend.
honestly i don't know your background, cashflow etc so i cannot comment
but do your own sums. rental income, you must deduct 2 months per year to account for dormant periods. then taxes, then conservancy, etc. can the rental still cover repayments? (don't take propertyguru rental rates. whatever they have there, discount 20%)
would help others to advise further if you can state your age, income, cashflow, etc etc.
you seem to have liquidity right now of about $360k. thus i would either sell the flat and get condo, or keept the flat and forego condo. not safe to get both
I agree with gfoo.
if I were u I will get duchess crest. U will like it. Big rooms, nice landscaping, very big compound, ideal for families. Regular shuttle bus to newton and orchard. It's launched at 1k psf. After one whole decade it finally breaks even. Downside now is limited. Levelz on the other hand had appreciated like 200%.
also make sure that you have emergency cash (at least 6 months of expenses, mortgages etc), just in case you lose your job and can't find tenant etc
because you are buying at a peak. if QE2 doesn't come up to expectations next week and i don't think it will meet the street, then it might trigger a downhill trend.
honestly i don't know your background, cashflow etc so i cannot comment
but do your own sums. rental income, you must deduct 2 months per year to account for dormant periods. then taxes, then conservancy, etc. can the rental still cover repayments? (don't take propertyguru rental rates. whatever they have there, discount 20%)
would help others to advise further if you can state your age, income, cashflow, etc etc.
Wow that's good info!
I'm not too comfortable to state those but purpose of illustration can we have a example? Maybe with a hypothetical cash-flow of $300k, annual income of 100k and age 35?
I agree with gfoo.
if I were u I will get duchess crest. U will like it. Big rooms, nice landscaping, very big compound, ideal for families. Regular shuttle bus to newton and orchard. It's launched at 1k psf. After one whole decade it finally breaks even. Downside now is limited. Levelz on the other hand had appreciated like 200%.
As duchess is 99 years and that the property was completed in 1999 (11 years old?) it's not advisable to buy right? I heard that 99 years condos are really hard to sell off at a reasonable price once they approach 20 years of age... Is that true?
It's all relative. If I have to buy now, I will have to see who has less downside, not who has the most upside, since it does look like peaking now. ( imagine just a few yrs back 1600 psf is for cainhill not holland rd). DC's turnover is very high, as a lot of ppl are buying / renting for the exact same purpose as you. There are a lot of expats families renting DC. This is a very peaceful place, very diff from the other one.
And as u mentioned, one cost 300k more than the other. is this 300k "premium" worthwhile ? After all DC is a far nicer place to live.
Wild Falcon
27-10-10, 22:50
The fact that you need to "save" and accumulate one more year to be able to afford both comfortably means you're probably "stretched" financially now. If annual income is $100k, how much more can you accumulate in a year? Doesn't look like there is any buffer. If you have to get your child into that school, I would suggest sell your HDB, and use some of the proceeds to buy the $1.5 million property, and reduce the debt burden. Imagine selling your HDB and releasing say $450k of cash? That would reduce your debt burden significantly. I think's it's not about making more money with your HDB flat. It's about whether you can still live comfortably without having to scrimp and save every single cent to support both houses. And once you've saved enough, I'm sure there are other form of investments that may be more lurative than a HDB flat. With the new measures, HDB flat will just be an "average" investment, not exactly spectacular in terms of capital gains. I wouldn't worry too much about not being able to buy HDB ever again. After all, how many private property owners actually downgrade or subsequently invest in HDB? Very few.
Hi,
First post here. I usually don't pay too much attention to property so but recently I thought of purchasing a new private property. I current stay in a HDB and am wondering if I should keep my HDB and buy another private property or if I should sell the HDB for a higher budget?
I am looking at a 1.5m property at the moment. I will be able to buy the place if I sell my HDB now, or I can wait approximately 1 year to accumulate enough for the the 1.5m unit without selling my HDB flat. However, I fear the price of private property skyrocketing if I were to wait for one year
Anyone can throw some advise here?
As duchess is 99 years and that the property was completed in 1999 (11 years old?) it's not advisable to buy right? I heard that 99 years condos are really hard to sell off at a reasonable price once they approach 20 years of age... Is that true?
The 99 years start running when the land is sold by URA to the developers. So, even if the property is completed in 1999, more than 11 years would have already ran out. The planning and construction of the property could easily take 2 years, so that's 13yrs out of the 99.
The 99 years start running when the land is sold by URA to the developers. So, even if the property is completed in 1999, more than 11 years would have already ran out. The planning and construction of the property could easily take 2 years, so that's 13yrs out of the 99.
I think it's sold in 1995, which translate to 16 years already. Sounds like a no-go for DC!
Sheesh I'm stuck!
I think it's sold in 1995, which translate to 16 years already. Sounds like a no-go for DC!
Sheesh I'm stuck!
The issue with DC is that it is surrounded by freehold properties. It is easy for buyers to choose freehold over leasehold. In areas where there is only leasehold, buyers who like the area have no choice and no way to compare.
As the property gets older the price difference is going to accelerate.
After all, how many private property owners actually downgrade or subsequently invest in HDB? Very few.
During the bad times between 2002 and 2005, I went for hundreds of flat viewings and asked all the owners why they had to sell their condo units.
Many gave the answer of downgrading to HDB.
Although the market is bad at that time, prices of HDBs are still strong due to lots of downgrading from condo (but less upgrading to condo).
So I think I got some questions answered thanks to everyone here. The general advise is to
- keep the hdb and buy the condo you can afford
- affordable means having enough cash to weather through at least 6 months of job loss or no tenant after purchase
- since it is peak price now, be prepared that rental yield might not cover the monthly cost of the condo if property dip, so might be wise to wait and see
With that the only viable choice is Duchess since I can really afford there having kept my HDB. But because Duchess is surrounded by freeholds and that it's 16 years old already, buying it now might not be a good thing after all.
It's starting to sound like I should just call off the idea and wait a year more, and start the cycle again with the intention of getting a 1.5m place while keeping the HDB
I can of cos sell of my HDB and get the "dream" unit, but that will be going against the advise of almost everyone I asked (keeping HDB)
If the main objective is for your kids to get into that school, two options:
1) Rent a place nearby. I have friend rented a place but never really stayed, just trying to get into the school. I believe the rule says 1 year+ for renting;
2) Try to get into GEP - top 1% in Singapore just for math and English test at P2 (?), then you can transfer school. I have another friend did that for his twin boys.
If none works out, try some tuition in The Learning Lab. That's as good as any top school. My son learnt English there, and he managed to enter top secondary school from below-average priamry school.
Thanks,
Richard
Thanks. The GEP option is really a far fetch idea, not easily achievable, I'll have to fall on the rental option as a last resort. You mean your friend rented a unit but didn't stay there at all? I didn't know that is allowed from the school's perspective... But if that is the case then it's possible to rent the cheapest and smallest unit for 2 years at about 84k for 2 years with zero hope for any returns, and not stay there.
It will be the worst case scenario I think. It might be a better deal in my case to buy a unit in duchess, rent out my hdb to subsidize part of the condo and still have a little hope of capital appreciation later. If the price doesn't increase at all, it might still be worthwhile to hold it and rent out to expat and local families who's trying to do the same as me?
If the main objective is for your kids to get into that school, two options:
1) Rent a place nearby. I have friend rented a place but never really stayed, just trying to get into the school. I believe the rule says 1 year+ for renting;
2) Try to get into GEP - top 1% in Singapore just for math and English test at P2 (?), then you can transfer school. I have another friend did that for his twin boys.
If none works out, try some tuition in The Learning Lab. That's as good as any top school. My son learnt English there, and he managed to enter top secondary school from below-average priamry school.
Thanks,
Richard
Take my comments with a pinch of salt, I am no expert here, but had benefitted greatly from the experts here. Our situation is similar. Our combine annual income is about $150000+, but no kids nor other huge commitments . I owned a 26 years old 5 room hdb about 700m away from mrt (10 mins walk)that fetched me a $250K profit after I sold it off. I wanted to keep both, and of course that will be ideal if affordabilty can never be an issue. My condo cost about 1mil and I took a 80% loan. My cash is lesser than yours, only slightly more than 200K. Some advised me to keep hdb, while some advised me to sell it because I am actually stretching financially if we have to take into acc of Interest rates hikes in future as well as margin calls if property really crashes one day. In the end, I chose to sell it off after weighing all cost and benefit. HDB rental yield is high, but capital appreciation is really very limited. I calculated the minimum rental that my unit can fetch annually, minus off the taxs, plus any possible additional cost that can incurr and realised that it will take me about 25 years to accumulate the same profit if I were to sell off my hdb now. If I were to take into account of the trouble related to renting plus inflation and vacant periods, I think that it is better off if I let go. I felt a big sense of relief after selling my hdb, and now I can enjoy life, just bought my first rolex , and going europe tour soon:D
Ialways think that if u want to play with property investment, u need at least 3 properties to start with inuding one for own stay. Good to have a hdb in the portfolio for cashflow as rental yield probably best. Should fully repay hdb loan if possible as interest cost is higher than banks. Believe now the new rule is u do not have to sell hdb if mop is more than 5 yrs. If I were u I will buy dc as investment. That is don't commit too much. Get smaller unit but still good enough for family since probably this group will rent your unit. Do that you have achieved 2 investment properties. Dream or retirement home can be later. That will probably be a landed one!:D
That's very encouraging and I will see if that can be done! Thanks :D
Ialways think that if u want to play with property investment, u need at least 3 properties to start with inuding one for own stay. Good to have a hdb in the portfolio for cashflow as rental yield probably best. Should fully repay hdb loan if possible as interest cost is higher than banks. Believe now the new rule is u do not have to sell hdb if mop is more than 5 yrs. If I were u I will buy dc as investment. That is don't commit too much. Get smaller unit but still good enough for family since probably this group will rent your unit. Do that you have achieved 2 investment properties. Dream or retirement home can be later. That will probably be a landed one!:D
Wow your situation is extremely similar to mine... I'll have to think harder about selling my HDB but I agree with you, selling it will mean a lot more cash later. How much HDB loan did you have remaining when you make the sale? We're about 90k left. Your condo is a freehold I suppose?
Take my comments with a pinch of salt, I am no expert here, but had benefitted greatly from the experts here. Our situation is similar. Our combine annual income is about $150000+, but no kids nor other huge commitments . I owned a 26 years old 5 room hdb about 700m away from mrt (10 mins walk)that fetched me a $250K profit after I sold it off. I wanted to keep both, and of course that will be ideal if affordabilty can never be an issue. My condo cost about 1mil and I took a 80% loan. My cash is lesser than yours, only slightly more than 200K. Some advised me to keep hdb, while some advised me to sell it because I am actually stretching financially if we have to take into acc of Interest rates hikes in future as well as margin calls if property really crashes one day. In the end, I chose to sell it off after weighing all cost and benefit. HDB rental yield is high, but capital appreciation is really very limited. I calculated the minimum rental that my unit can fetch annually, minus off the taxs, plus any possible additional cost that can incurr and realised that it will take me about 25 years to accumulate the same profit if I were to sell off my hdb now. If I were to take into account of the trouble related to renting plus inflation and vacant periods, I think that it is better off if I let go. I felt a big sense of relief after selling my hdb, and now I can enjoy life, just bought my first rolex , and going europe tour soon:D
Wow your situation is extremely similar to mine... I'll have to think harder about selling my HDB but I agree with you, selling it will mean a lot more cash later. How much HDB loan did you have remaining when you make the sale? We're about 90k left. Your condo is a freehold I suppose?
Yes, my condo is freehold in D19, about 600m from kovan mrt, primo residences. My hdb loan left $130k, 40k more than yours :) After selling hdb, i got back about 300k+ in terms of cash and cpf. Thereafter I reduce my loan to 50% loan from bank, so every month pay by cpf, no need top up cash cos low interest. In future if interest hike, need not pay too much cash too.. Can save all over again to buy studio next time, better investment compared to hdb IMO.:D
Can just rent out hdb like that and stay in condo meh? I thought approval is required, even after MOP? And I doubt getting children into top schools counts as a valid reason. Sorry am noob when comes to hdb.
Can just rent out hdb like that and stay in condo meh? I thought approval is required, even after MOP? And I doubt getting children into top schools counts as a valid reason. Sorry am noob when comes to hdb.
yes, approval required, have to write in to get approval..
Can just rent out hdb like that and stay in condo meh? I thought approval is required, even after MOP? And I doubt getting children into top schools counts as a valid reason. Sorry am noob when comes to hdb.
That is actually an excellent question. I haven't thought of that at all. Approval is required and I'm not sure if momentary resident address for school enrollment is a valid reason, I also think it might not be. This kinda change the ballgame a little. Maybe there are good reasons to sell the HDB after all.
If I hold HDB and buy Duchess at 99 years, get average rental yield with little capital appreciation and in the end I still have to sell my HDB to move in when it's time for enrollment, because gov doesn't allow me to rent the HDB out, I will be stuck with a over 20 year old condo, cannot rent out, with little money left for other investment, and with historical bad capital appreciation.
So... it seems like selling HDB and buying condo is back as an option! Am I flicker minded or just getting more inform? Argh...
Actually, buying the condo while holding the hdb seems to be a good idea. I think 300k cash is good and should be sufficient. Duchess Crest is in a good location, although it is 99 yr leasehold. Since it is in a good location, there could be chances of en-bloc when the property is older, especially since, it is quite low-rise.
That is actually an excellent question. I haven't thought of that at all. Approval is required and I'm not sure if momentary resident address for school enrollment is a valid reason, I also think it might not be. This kinda change the ballgame a little. Maybe there are good reasons to sell the HDB after all.
If I hold HDB and buy Duchess at 99 years, get average rental yield with little capital appreciation and in the end I still have to sell my HDB to move in when it's time for enrollment, because gov doesn't allow me to rent the HDB out, I will be stuck with a over 20 year old condo, cannot rent out, with little money left for other investment, and with historical bad capital appreciation.
So... it seems like selling HDB and buying condo is back as an option! Am I flicker minded or just getting more inform? Argh...
i think you are stretching yourself too much. sell the hdb, stay in the condo, have fun with your kids, and live a nice comfy life with buffer in the bank.
or stay in the HDB, forego the condo, and also have a great life.
HDB prices are already so high, and 12,000 more in supply coming each year, with singaporeans complaining so much that immigration is being stemmed. what will happen next?
the root of all evil, is the lack of money
That is actually an excellent question. I haven't thought of that at all. Approval is required and I'm not sure if momentary resident address for school enrollment is a valid reason, I also think it might not be. This kinda change the ballgame a little. Maybe there are good reasons to sell the HDB after all.
If I hold HDB and buy Duchess at 99 years, get average rental yield with little capital appreciation and in the end I still have to sell my HDB to move in when it's time for enrollment, because gov doesn't allow me to rent the HDB out, I will be stuck with a over 20 year old condo, cannot rent out, with little money left for other investment, and with historical bad capital appreciation.
So... it seems like selling HDB and buying condo is back as an option! Am I flicker minded or just getting more inform? Argh...
Your No. 1 objective is getting your kid into the NYPS right? Then you have no choice but to sell HDB and get the private unless you very sure you can get HDB approval to 'rent hdb and stay condo'. Otherwise you stay in the private for 1.5 yrs during which you leave the HDB empty, but pay 10% property tax on the private (no you can't owner occupy both homes sorry if that's what you thinking). I don't think school will rat on you to HDB...
Your No. 1 objective is getting your kid into the NYPS right? Then you have no choice but to sell HDB and get the private unless you very sure you can get HDB approval to 'rent hdb and stay condo'. Otherwise you stay in the private for 1.5 yrs during which you leave the HDB empty, but pay 10% property tax on the private (no you can't owner occupy both homes sorry if that's what you thinking). I don't think school will rat on you to HDB...
Yes that's the main priority. I just checked with my agent and she said I can rent it out because it's over MOP already, but to be safe I think I will just head down to HDB and ask personally. If I can't then the answer is obvious, it will be dumb for me to keep the HDB.
Thanks gfoo. It's a very difficult decision for me as well. I presume you mean the HDB prices will drop in time to come so it's better for me to sell the HDB and buy the condo. I will bear that last sentence in mind!
i think you are stretching yourself too much. sell the hdb, stay in the condo, have fun with your kids, and live a nice comfy life with buffer in the bank.
or stay in the HDB, forego the condo, and also have a great life.
HDB prices are already so high, and 12,000 more in supply coming each year, with singaporeans complaining so much that immigration is being stemmed. what will happen next?
the root of all evil, is the lack of money
rattydrama
28-10-10, 11:19
If past 5 years with or without loan can rent out the entire flat but must get HDB approval.
You have made your first buck from HDB, may well take profits and move on with the proceeds you have. Will it be worst off than your situation now since you can afford the installments and you can hold for at least 1o years? Any up and down of property price may not be a concern for you if you can hold and with the right property you bought.
To me, the price of HDB will be stabilized at this juncture. The COV will go down and in the next 3 years, there will be more supplies. This will impact the resale price as some will prefer new units. The MOP is going to impact re-sale flat buyer decision too.
In fact COV has gone down to 10K – 15K in general in the North area from what I heard.
You may start to look at ready unit now with upside potential and good rental. This apartment may not necessarily near NYPS but some other good school – Pei Hwa Primary? Put your balance money into CPF with 2.5% interest rate.
At the same time, accumulate more cash and wait for opportunity to buy into projects near NYPS if you still have time. If prices drop or if there is a fire sale, you have ready cash to commit.
BTW, if you rent a unit near NYPS, you need to stay there cos the school rep will visit yr place to ensure that you are a resident within 1 km from what I heard from colleagues.
I think near good school should be a consideration but not a must since buying into property is a big investment – better make sure it can help you to make money or at worst case scenario preserve your hard earn money for retirement.
No money no honey and no honey make us a miserable man.
That is actually an excellent question. I haven't thought of that at all. Approval is required and I'm not sure if momentary resident address for school enrollment is a valid reason, I also think it might not be. This kinda change the ballgame a little. Maybe there are good reasons to sell the HDB after all.
If I hold HDB and buy Duchess at 99 years, get average rental yield with little capital appreciation and in the end I still have to sell my HDB to move in when it's time for enrollment, because gov doesn't allow me to rent the HDB out, I will be stuck with a over 20 year old condo, cannot rent out, with little money left for other investment, and with historical bad capital appreciation.
So... it seems like selling HDB and buying condo is back as an option! Am I flicker minded or just getting more inform? Argh...
i think you are stretching yourself too much. sell the hdb, stay in the condo, have fun with your kids, and live a nice comfy life with buffer in the bank.
or stay in the HDB, forego the condo, and also have a great life.
HDB prices are already so high, and 12,000 more in supply coming each year, with singaporeans complaining so much that immigration is being stemmed. what will happen next?
the root of all evil, is the lack of money
nice ~~ :o
Usually after MOP, Hdb will allow us to sublet whole unit, but subject to approval. But so far I didnt hear of anyone not being able to sublet whole unit out after MOP. But HDB cannot guarantee you that approval will ALWAYS be granted. That is part of my dilema too when deciding whether to sell my hdb that time. Also due to the uncertainties in HDB ruling, I am just too afraid that one day, HDB will just go back to the old rule whereby private property owners must stay in hdb and rent out private. If that reali happens, many people will be rushing to sell their hdb, prices of hdb will suffer. However I think too much.. what is the likehood of this happening? Unless they want to lose out in election.
If past 5 years with or without loan can rent out the entire flat but must get HDB approval.
You have made your first buck from HDB, may well take profits and move on with the proceeds you have. Will it be worst off than your situation now since you can afford the installments and you can hold for at least 1o years? Any up and down of property price may not be a concern for you if you can hold and with the right property you bought.
To me, the price of HDB will be stabilized at this juncture. The COV will go down and in the next 3 years, there will be more supplies. This will impact the resale price as some will prefer new units. The MOP is going to impact re-sale flat buyer decision too.
In fact COV has gone down to 10K – 15K in general in the North area from what I heard.
You may start to look at ready unit now with upside potential and good rental. This apartment may not necessarily near NYPS but some other good school – Pei Hwa Primary? Put your balance money into CPF with 2.5% interest rate.
At the same time, accumulate more cash and wait for opportunity to buy into projects near NYPS if you still have time. If prices drop or if there is a fire sale, you have ready cash to commit.
BTW, if you rent a unit near NYPS, you need to stay there cos the school rep will visit yr place to ensure that you are a resident within 1 km from what I heard from colleagues.
I think near good school should be a consideration but not a must since buying into property is a big investment – better make sure it can help you to make money or at worst case scenario preserve your hard earn money for retirement.
No money no honey and no honey make us a miserable man.
Agree! Dun need to reduce loan if you can afford, wait for good opportunities to go into the market with your hdb proceeds. May get a much much better investment property than hdb.. I was adviced to do that too, but still I choose to reduce loan cos I want to be safer :D
devilplate
28-10-10, 11:40
Agree! Dun need to reduce loan if you can afford, wait for good opportunities to go into the market with your hdb proceeds. May get a much much better investment property than hdb.. I was adviced to do that too, but still I choose to reduce loan cos I want to be safer :D
u shdnt reduce ur loan with ur HOT HOT CASH....especially now the interest rate so so low:tsk-tsk:
i din mention about mortgage packages like stanchart mortgage 1 sibor meh?
however, if u r retired and more den perhaps 50yo, den pls go ahead and fully redemn ur 'primary residence' mortgage loan and leave the younger ones to fry ppty....u shd be sitting back relax and watching the show oredi:D
u shdnt reduce ur loan with ur HOT HOT CASH....especially now the interest rate so so low:tsk-tsk:
i din mention about mortgage packages like stanchart mortgage 1 sibor meh?
however, if u r retired and more den perhaps 50yo, den pls go ahead and fully redemn ur 'primary residence' mortgage loan and leave the younger ones to fry ppty....u shd be sitting back relax and watching the show oredi:D
Ya I dunno why people rush to pay off their mortgage which is the cheapest money anyone can lend vs car vs reno vs credit card loan... I actually met Private Bankers with that conservative (yet illogical) mindset - that is, until they know me and listen to my explanation.
If they are young below 40s and working there is absolutely no reason why they should do that. As they say youth is priceless and in this case it is not just pricele$$ it is $$$ itself.
Do people really shiver with hot ca$h in hands dunno what to best make of it??? Ridiculous.
rattydrama
28-10-10, 11:48
wats the rate for stanchart mortgage 1 sibor?
u shdnt reduce ur loan with ur HOT HOT CASH....especially now the interest rate so so low:tsk-tsk:
i din mention about mortgage packages like stanchart mortgage 1 sibor meh?
however, if u r retired and more den perhaps 50yo, den pls go ahead and fully redemn ur 'primary residence' mortgage loan and leave the younger ones to fry ppty....u shd be sitting back relax and watching the show oredi:D
devilplate
28-10-10, 11:51
Ya I dunno why people rush to pay off their mortgage which is the cheapest money anyone can lend vs car vs reno vs credit card loan...
yeah....cheapest loan on earth:D
Agree with you on that. One should leverage on other people's money, ie. it could be the bank, given the current situation. BUT do not overleverage. Use own cash invest in instruments for higher returns. That's is one way the rich becomes richer.
Ya I dunno why people rush to pay off their mortgage which is the cheapest money anyone can lend vs car vs reno vs credit card loan... I actually met Private Bankers with that conservative (yet illogical) mindset - that is, until they know me and listen to my explanation.
If they are young below 40s and working there is absolutely no reason why they should do that. As they say youth is priceless and in this case it is not just pricele$$ it is $$$ itself.
Do people really shiver with hot ca$h in hands dunno what to best make of it??? Ridiculous.
rattydrama
28-10-10, 11:53
how to be as savvy as your guys.....can share?
Agree with you on that. One should leverage on other people's money, ie. it could be the bank, given the current situation. BUT do not overleverage. Use own cash invest in instruments for higher returns. That's is one way the rich becomes richer.
devilplate
28-10-10, 11:53
wats the rate for stanchart mortgage 1 sibor?
its not about the rate,...their rates nvr the best....
read their website lor....this package is for those who have spare cash and duno wat to do with it at the moment(waiting for opportunity:D )
http://www.standardchartered.com.sg/personal-banking/mortgages/mortgageone-sibor/en/
u shdnt reduce ur loan with ur HOT HOT CASH....especially now the interest rate so so low:tsk-tsk:
i din mention about mortgage packages like stanchart mortgage 1 sibor meh?
however, if u r retired and more den perhaps 50yo, den pls go ahead and fully redemn ur 'primary residence' mortgage loan and leave the younger ones to fry ppty....u shd be sitting back relax and watching the show oredi:D
I haven't reduce lah, still contemplating, but most likely will reduce cos in short term, dun think we wanna invest so soon esp with 80% debt out there. Can save up again mah :D But your words make me itchy to hold again :doh: You can never understand the feeling of an 80% of debt loan out there..cos you dun borrow 80%. very stressed one leh..
devilplate
28-10-10, 12:14
I haven't reduce lah, still contemplating, but most likely will reduce cos in short term, dun think we wanna invest so soon esp with 80% debt out there. Can save up again mah :D But your words make me itchy to hold again :doh: You can never understand the feeling of an 80% of debt loan out there..cos you dun borrow 80%. very stressed one leh..
ISNT it worse off for u to reduce ur loan and ended up with no spare cash?? imagine u r retrenched etc or u nid emergency cash to tide smthing over...medical fees etc etc...
I ALWAYS FEEL SAFER WITH SPARE HOT CASH ON HAND
ISNT it worse off for u to reduce ur loan and ended up with no spare cash?? imagine u r retrenched etc or u nid emergency cash to tide smthing over...medical fees etc etc...
I ALWAYS FEEL SAFER WITH SPARE HOT CASH ON HAND
chances of retrenchment is low(touchwood). Both our civil service job (Ministry) always in high demand.. *Pray*
chances of retrenchment is low(touchwood). Both our civil service job (Ministry) always in high demand.. *Pray*
then as long as PAP in power, you are safe to leverage away.
all others, please have 2 years income in cash and perhaps half that in precious metals before over leveraging
devilplate
28-10-10, 12:32
then as long as PAP in power, you are safe to leverage away.
all others, please have 2 years income in cash and perhaps half that in precious metals before over leveraging
keep canadian gold coins enuff....in case currency become toilet paper still can use gold coin to barter trade:D
still waiting for gold spot price to retrace leh....now i scare scare to buy more gold coins wor:o
Am I right to say that HDB prices might go down by quite a bit going forward?
devilplate
28-10-10, 12:37
Am I right to say that HDB prices might go down by quite a bit going forward?
i believe at most 20%.:2cents:
duno if 20% meant alot to u
... realised that it will take me about 25 years to accumulate the same profit if I were to sell off my hdb now....
Nestor did you read this line ? very accurate description of your situation.
HDB price depends heavily on gov policies. U never know what will happen after the GE.
sell the HDB and get the cash/cpf standby for opportunities.
btw for 1km purpose why only levelz ? there are plenty of small apartments at the other shelford side. all freehold some more. a few of them are even brand new, just TOPed
rattydrama
28-10-10, 13:25
citibank also has it. 70% pledge
its not about the rate,...their rates nvr the best....
read their website lor....this package is for those who have spare cash and duno wat to do with it at the moment(waiting for opportunity:D )
http://www.standardchartered.com.sg/personal-banking/mortgages/mortgageone-sibor/en/
rattydrama
28-10-10, 13:30
not if those who are comtemplating to sell and read this forum.
anyway if you want to sell, may well sell now cos valuation may drop soon. If you cannot decide now and only 6 months later, I suspect you could suffer a 50k difference. So is either now or many years ahead.
Good luck..
Am I right to say that HDB prices might go down by quite a bit going forward?
devilplate
28-10-10, 13:33
citibank also has it. 70% pledge
uob aso hf:D
wat u mean by pledge?? i nvr pledge anything b4 wor:scared-3:
devilplate
28-10-10, 13:35
not if those who are comtemplating to sell and read this forum.
anyway if you want to sell, may well sell now cos valuation may drop soon. If you cannot decide now and only 6 months later, I suspect you could suffer a 50k difference. So is either now or many years ahead.
Good luck..
care to explain y valuation will drop???
only COV is dropping....
my understanding: HDB valuation will only drop when ppl start to sell below valuation which i dun tink any govt cooling measures will trigger it...only jialatX3 crisis and unemployment rate rise to 5%++:2cents:
I have a friend who happily rented out his exeutive flat to 2 china students for $2k/mth.Unknown to him that is the start of his nightmare.
Barely a mth later,these 2 tenants sub-tenanted d flat to 6 of their course mates charging $500 each knowing HDB allows max 8 persons in 1 unit.So they collected $3000 every mth & pay my friend $2k.Each of them stay free n still hv $500 pocket money every mth.:scared-4: They have become landlord themselves without owning it.
That's not all,first they dont maintain the house,they cook but never cleans up,dont mops flr,toilets not washed.So my friend counter react by getting a part time maid n get them to pay thinking that it will solve the problem but they r smarter.Knowing that they are paying they mess even more. They wear shoes in the house,bring girlfriends back,imaging 16 peoples messing up.It was so bad that the maid quit after 1 mth.
Now my friend is thinking of selling d flat but he's locked up with a 2 yrs tenancy.He's using d $2K rental to cover his $1950 hdb loan while his mthly cpf contribution is use to pay his current condo.
He regretted renting out n should hv just sold it half yr ago when prices peaked,now he's burdened with 2 mortages n pray hard that interest rates wont increase so soon.
That's the profile of a typical hdb tenant.Pte condo gets better quality tenants.
rattydrama
28-10-10, 13:38
against your housing loan. not sure if I use the correct english. wor... sorry!
uob aso hf:D
wat u mean by pledge?? i nvr pledge anything b4 wor:scared-3:
devilplate
28-10-10, 13:39
I have a friend who happily rented out his exeutive flat to 2 china students for $2k/mth.Unknown to him that is the start of his nightmare.
Barely a mth later,these 2 tenants sub-tenanted d flat to 6 of their course mates charging $500 each knowing HDB allows max 8 persons in 1 unit.So they collected $3000 every mth & pay my friend $2k.Each of them stay free n still hv $500 pocket money every mth.:scared-4: They have become landlord themselves without owning it.
That's not all,first they dont maintain the house,they cook but never cleans up,dont mops flr,toilets not washed.So my friend counter react by getting a part time maid n get them to pay thinking that it will solve the problem but they r smarter.Knowing that they are paying they mess even more. They wear shoes in the house,bring girlfriends back,imaging 16 peoples messing up.It was so bad that the maid quit after 1 mth.
Now my friend is thinking of selling d flat but he's locked up with a 2 yrs tenancy.He's using d $2K rental to cover his $1950 hdb loan while his mthly cpf contribution is use to pay his current condo.
He regretted renting out n should hv just sold it half yr ago when prices peaked,now he's burdened with 2 mortages n pray hard that interest rates wont increase so soon.
That's the profile of a typical hdb tenant.Pte condo gets better quality tenants.
ur fren TA nvr state 'no subletting' allowed prior to owner's consent meh???
can use tat clause to break lease wat....:confused:
i will terminate the contract straightaway and makan their 2mths deposit...and if they dunwan to move out, i call police or HDB! so simple to handle
how to be as savvy as your guys.....can share?
Practice, practice, practice, timing, practice, practice, practice, guts, practice.
I haven't reduce lah, still contemplating, but most likely will reduce cos in short term, dun think we wanna invest so soon esp with 80% debt out there. Can save up again mah :D But your words make me itchy to hold again :doh: You can never understand the feeling of an 80% of debt loan out there..cos you dun borrow 80%. very stressed one leh..
My first I borrowed 90% plus balance transfer plus credit card plus personal term loan plus . .. .. . so I know very well what 'stress' you meant.
rattydrama
28-10-10, 13:45
think I explained in my other threads.
make it simple: demand drop price also drop - it is a matter of time. we shall see.
too details, scare people and kinda :gun2:
care to explain y valuation will drop???
only COV is dropping....
my understanding: HDB valuation will only drop when ppl start to sell below valuation which i dun tink any govt cooling measures will trigger it...only jialatX3 crisis and unemployment rate rise to 5%++:2cents:
devilplate
28-10-10, 13:45
Practice, practice, practice, timing, practice, practice, practice, guts, practice.
learning curve
i ever fully paid one ppty too:o (parents always say: fully paid ur hse!! dun pay bank interest.....take short tenure better.....10-15yrs BEST.....35yrs ended up pay double for ur hse...haha)
learning curve
i ever fully paid one ppty too:o (parents always say: fully paid ur hse!! dun pay bank interest.....take short tenure better.....10-15yrs BEST.....35yrs ended up pay double for ur hse...haha)
Ya la do more of it (buy borrow sell, not beg borrow steal) within the shorter period of time and practice more lah. ;)
devilplate
28-10-10, 13:47
think I explain in my other threads.
make it simple: demand drop price also grop - it is a matter of time. we shall see.
too details, scare people and kinda :gun2:
u better pray HDB prices dun drop....we shd see blood first in pte ppty
see wat happens in 1st half of 2009.....lots of blood in pte ppty but u see any blood in HDB?:2cents:
rattydrama
28-10-10, 13:50
Practice, practice, practice, timing, practice, practice, practice, guts, practice.
last time 400K now doubled the price 800K to 1m....... how to practice it in ppty?
rattydrama
28-10-10, 13:53
50k difference, dont think there is blood.
u better pray HDB prices dun drop....we shd see blood first in pte ppty
see wat happens in 1st half of 2009.....lots of blood in pte ppty but u see any blood in HDB?:2cents:
life is short, especially so when you have kids - they stay young only so often.
why stretch yourself with multiple properties and worry about repayments?
treat property as an expense. buy one that gives you the best possible lifestyle that you can afford comfortably, even taking into consideration a downturn or worse. of course buy one that isn't at a peak in prices.
cash in bank and a good property you stay in gives you room to breathe, and focus.
peace of mind, and family harmony far outstrips an extra $1-2k in nett rental income; fear of downturn coz you bought at peak; asset depreciation due to tenant fukwits; etc etc
(this advice applies specifically to this guy, and not to the other richie richs in this forum.)
rattydrama
28-10-10, 15:37
This is how I see it as well.
life is short, especially so when you have kids - they stay young only so often.
why stretch yourself with multiple properties and worry about repayments?
treat property as an expense. buy one that gives you the best possible lifestyle that you can afford comfortably, even taking into consideration a downturn or worse. of course buy one that isn't at a peak in prices.
cash in bank and a good property you stay in gives you room to breathe, and focus.
peace of mind, and family harmony far outstrips an extra $1-2k in nett rental income; fear of downturn coz you bought at peak; asset depreciation due to tenant fukwits; etc etc
(this advice applies specifically to this guy, and not to the other richie richs in this forum.)
kingkong1984
28-10-10, 15:43
Before 30 Aug, sell, after 30 Aug keep until policy change.
Things move in cycles and trends will reverse. In 1997 - early 1998, private still going up but HDB drops like shit and blood everywhere! Remember somebody bought Bishan HDB at $760k, Hougang at $450k in early 1997, etc, drop drop drop till $450k and 320k respectively in late 1998!
u better pray HDB prices dun drop....we shd see blood first in pte ppty
see wat happens in 1st half of 2009.....lots of blood in pte ppty but u see any blood in HDB?:2cents:
i hope that happens.
then people will complain:
- why govt build so many flats?
- why govt dun bring in more foreign talent
But this is the frustration of the middle-income group who is trying to become richer. They may have seen opportunity went pass and worry that it may not come again.
This is how I see it as well.
Ya I dunno why people rush to pay off their mortgage which is the cheapest money anyone can lend vs car vs reno vs credit card loan... I actually met Private Bankers with that conservative (yet illogical) mindset - that is, until they know me and listen to my explanation.
If they are young below 40s and working there is absolutely no reason why they should do that. As they say youth is priceless and in this case it is not just pricele$$ it is $$$ itself.
Do people really shiver with hot ca$h in hands dunno what to best make of it??? Ridiculous.
Because they don't invest in others...and extra cash will bite...
I would advice TS to keep HDB and go ahead with DC. It doesn't matter if your cash is just nice to pay off the down downpayment, because eventually your next salary will come in for your mouth and saving. (personally I tried and it works. I was afraid of bad businesses but the economy will not fail within 2-3 yrs)
HDB is for sure a treasure in SG and it's hard to buy back in future should you've sold it.
Another point is the interest rate is so LOW now than no other best time to make a purchase.
Lastly, hat off for you are a good DAD...
Here’s an alternative plan.
Instead of buying a large apartment that will stretch you to the limit, buy a smaller apartment. Say a 1 bedroom at Levelz for 1.2mil.
Rent the unit out until your kid needs to go to school. Kick your tenant out. Keep it empty or rent out the room for 2 years. Change your address and register your kid for NYP, while staying in your HDB
That way you get to keep and stay in your HDB comfortably, own another property and send your kid to your desired school
The only catch is if you are caught by the school…. You may even have move in, at least temporarily to get over the surprise inspections.
The rental yield for a small apartment is almost always higher than a larger apartment. The apartment should pay for itself under the current low interest rate. You can always sell if the rate goes up since you’re not staying there. Rate going up usually means the market has improved.
Another observation I made. You only make money from property if you own a second or third property. If you have only 1 property, no matter how high the market goes, you don’t benefit because you’ll always need the roof over your head. You may sell the unit for a profit, but you’ll always need to buy another back at an equally high price.
Unless you are confident that prices are going to drop (which I am not), then SELL, SELL, SELL…. and rent…
But historically, prices are always trending higher, peak to peak, so if you have holding power, you should be fine…. People only get burnt by property investment if they do not have holding power.
Things move in cycles and trends will reverse. In 1997 - early 1998, private still going up but HDB drops like shit and blood everywhere! Remember somebody bought Bishan HDB at $760k, Hougang at $450k in early 1997, etc, drop drop drop till $450k and 320k respectively in late 1998!
Times are different now. We don't have Casinos in the 90's and the economy is moving toward Asia.
It will always be a cycle but should it be the same as it was? Time will be the judge...
To each his own ... both mcmxx & gfoo have their points. If you are a little bit more risk averse & worry about affordability, best to stick with one (& only yourself know which one is best for your family).
However, I personally feel that it's good to keep your hdb coz it's an entitlement to citizens. I'm assuming that you've got yours first-hand new fr govt so tt hdb can't cost tt much & likely u might have (or gg to fully repay) already paid off the loan. This is where leverage comes into play & if you make good use of it, it does make sense to hold both properties. For my own case, me & wifey settled for a smaller pte as own stay & LT investment.
:2cents:
i would sell HDB. HDB is like a ball and chain that govt use to keep you rooted to this little red dot and her draconian policies.
the opportunity cost of keeping a HDB is tremendous.
go on, free yourself from the shackles of this govt. how to be rich like that?
i super kiasu and kiasi one.
for me i dun see property as whether HDB or pte or what. Each is an asset class.
if an asset class has been rising too much for too long, and demand is being clamped down, with supply bumped up - that tells me that i should move out of this asset class.
of course the only other asset class which i will always buy, never sell - is gold. i'm a perennial gold bug :) luv that yella stuff
Because they don't invest in others...and extra cash will bite...
I would advice TS to keep HDB and go ahead with DC. It doesn't matter if your cash is just nice to pay off the down downpayment, because eventually your next salary will come in for your mouth and saving. (personally I tried and it works. I was afraid of bad businesses but the economy will not fail within 2-3 yrs)
HDB is for sure a treasure in SG and it's hard to buy back in future should you've sold it.
Another point is the interest rate is so LOW now than no other best time to make a purchase.
Lastly, hat off for you are a good DAD...
Yes HDB after new ruling becomes rarity. Keep if you can (assuming you bought at low price ok!). As for good dad bad dad, its subjective. Some may say kiasu dad, poor kid.
Just offering a different view here, not trying to attack anyone.
i super kiasu and kiasi one.
for me i dun see property as whether HDB or pte or what. Each is an asset class.
if an asset class has been rising too much for too long, and demand is being clamped down, with supply bumped up - that tells me that i should move out of this asset class.
of course the only other asset class which i will always buy, never sell - is gold. i'm a perennial gold bug :) luv that yella stuff
[just being an idiot] well I have plenty of 'gold stuff' during my digging sessions at home (go figure where i dig)
[just being an idiot] well I have plenty of 'gold stuff' during my digging sessions at home (go figure where i dig)
if not up or down, then i'll be nice and say you playing 'dig-dug' on xbox classic.
rattydrama
28-10-10, 17:30
I miss the boat in those days I could afford anytime. I splurged on good cars.
I am not Hiong enough but I never regret the decision cos my partner was not ready for property. We hit it in 2009.
It will come......it is a cycle.. Thread starter is still young I think still can wait.
If not let it be.......
But this is the frustration of the middle-income group who is trying to become richer. They may have seen opportunity went pass and worry that it may not come again.
Yes that's the main priority. I just checked with my agent and she said I can rent it out because it's over MOP already, but to be safe I think I will just head down to HDB and ask personally. If I can't then the answer is obvious, it will be dumb for me to keep the HDB.
Can rent out lah after meeting MOP. Getting HDB approval is not a matter of hit or miss, unlike some countries where the officer might approve or disapprove based on whether he likes your face or not. Singapore system is very transparent. You meet the MOP, HDB will let you rent your place. No questions asked. So there is no need to explain that you are doing this to get your child into NYPS.
I say don't sell your HDB because of rising cost of living. Most 5 room flats near MRT stations nowadays can easily rent out for $2k a month. Rents are expected to go up in the future as money devalues. Assuming 10 months of rent a year, that's $100k in 5 years even assuming you don't raise the rent. Even if HDB price falls, I'm positive your rental income will more than make up for the fall in capital value. You should know PAP govt will never let HDB prices fall too much. That's why got this upgrading, that upgrading of HDB estates. They can also control prices by loosening or tightening ownership rules depending on the circumstances.
With your loan outstanding at $90k, you can be assured of positive cash flow from your HDB flat for the rest of your life!
As for horror stories, please lah, private properties also have their share of horror tenants. Only recently I read Shinmin story abt some condo unit being rented out and used as gambling den. You just have to be careful and selective about tenants. There are good ones around, not just the China mei meis.
Each cycle may mean that one can buy two previously but can only afford one now.
I miss the boat in those days I could afford anytime. I splurged on good cars.
I am not Hiong enough but I never regret the decision cos my partner was not ready for property. We hit it in 2009.
It will come......it is a cycle.. Thread starter is still young I think still can wait.
If not let it be.......
Thanks man.. one of the best advice I've gotten so far. I think I will eventually sell the HDB, buy the condo with some extra cash left..
life is short, especially so when you have kids - they stay young only so often.
why stretch yourself with multiple properties and worry about repayments?
treat property as an expense. buy one that gives you the best possible lifestyle that you can afford comfortably, even taking into consideration a downturn or worse. of course buy one that isn't at a peak in prices.
cash in bank and a good property you stay in gives you room to breathe, and focus.
peace of mind, and family harmony far outstrips an extra $1-2k in nett rental income; fear of downturn coz you bought at peak; asset depreciation due to tenant fukwits; etc etc
(this advice applies specifically to this guy, and not to the other richie richs in this forum.)
Wild Falcon
28-10-10, 19:58
You know Maslow's hierachy of needs? Once you have enough to meet your basic needs, you look for self-actualisation. It's no longer about leveraging more and more and buying more property because your 3rd property is no longer going to bring you as much joy as your first property. That is when you start paying off substantially your debt, and learn to live debt-free and enjoy life or start your own business. It's not about accumulating more and more money and making more returns anymore.
Some people reach there earlier. Some people still want more and more properties. Goodness me. After my third, i am no longer interested in buying any more properties. In fact, I just sold one today.
I can flip the argument. If you're young, healthy and carefree and below 40s, why tie up all your cash in property and take on more debt when you should travelling around the world and exploring what life has to offer? Once you're in your forties, it's like downhill and goodness knows if some stupid disease might strike. That is when you realise shit! I spend my life saving and taking on loan to buy property 1 to 10 and I forgot to ask myself what I really wanna do in my life. Surely it's ok to take some profit for enjoyment? Or worse, got married and become "stuck" in a rut because your own life take a back seat and everyday is about taking children from enrichment class A to Z. Even if you have 100 properties, so what? Everyday is still the same - bring children go for enrichment class A to Z. That will be depressing.
in short, once you have enough (by your own definition), you stop borrowing and borrowing.
Ya I dunno why people rush to pay off their mortgage which is the cheapest money anyone can lend vs car vs reno vs credit card loan... I actually met Private Bankers with that conservative (yet illogical) mindset - that is, until they know me and listen to my explanation.
If they are young below 40s and working there is absolutely no reason why they should do that. As they say youth is priceless and in this case it is not just pricele$$ it is $$$ itself.
Do people really shiver with hot ca$h in hands dunno what to best make of it??? Ridiculous.
if not up or down, then i'll be nice and say you playing 'dig-dug' on xbox classic.
Haha dig dug... Now i know u must have some age ;)
You know Maslow's hierachy of needs? Once you have enough to meet your basic needs, you look for self-actualisation. It's no longer about leveraging more and more and buying more property because your 3rd property is no longer going to bring you as much joy as your first property. That is when you start paying off substantially your debt, and learn to live debt-free and enjoy life or start your own business. It's not about accumulating more and more money and making more returns anymore.
Some people reach there earlier. Some people still want more and more properties. Goodness me. After my third, i am no longer interested in buying any more properties. In fact, I just sold one today.
I can flip the argument. If you're young, healthy and carefree and below 40s, why tie up all your cash in property and take on more debt when you should travelling around the world and exploring what life has to offer? Once you're in your forties, it's like downhill and goodness knows if some stupid disease might strike. That is when you realise shit! I spend my life saving and taking on loan to buy property 1 to 10 and I forgot to ask myself what I really wanna do in my life. Surely it's ok to take some profit for enjoyment? Or worse, got married and become "stuck" in a rut because your own life take a back seat and everyday is about taking children from enrichment class A to Z. Even if you have 100 properties, so what? Everyday is still the same - bring children go for enrichment class A to Z. That will be depressing.
in short, once you have enough (by your own definition), you stop borrowing and borrowing.
Wild Falcon so wild n free! Respect! I totally get what u mean. Been so bz with properties this year didnt even clear leave nor renew pp after expire in Jan... U relly hit the bulls eye man....
devilplate
28-10-10, 20:12
how about treating ppty as a hobby or past time? lol
stocks/ppty can prevent u from becoming senile too soon if 'retire' too early:p
in short, there's 2 schools of thought:-
1) Spend while you have youth and energy, worry about saving later.
2) Save while you're young to spend when you're old...
The ideal is probably some balance between the two.
I have an uncle that said "Money is not yours until it's spent".
Which is quite true when you think about it. The multitude of zeros in your bank account means nothing until you spend it.
I'm not advocating spending every cent for the record :)
how about treating ppty as a hobby or past time? lol
stocks/ppty can prevent u from becoming senile too soon if 'retire' too early:p
Bro devil has a point too! So happy to be amongst people with brains and who use them.
Personally my goal is to stop at 3 and then just go for any job that inspires me or that i have passion for. With the double passive income stream plus passion income, i call it 'financial independence'-like semi retire. Right now only achieve the former but latter sux big time. One step at a time i guess. Take aws first.
Haha dig dug... Now i know u must have some age ;)
yeah balls, gonna hit mid thirties in a coupla years liao. used to choong sua a lot, but now with a kid, everything turn 360. family happiness and harmony comes first; spending quality time comes first - everything else becomes secondary.
You know Maslow's hierachy of needs? Once you have enough to meet your basic needs, you look for self-actualisation.
This is so true.
There will come a time where the law of diminishing utility sets in. There are mini-Maslows in play in just about everything around us - whether it's buying or zhnging cars, watches, boats, bags etc, even property
One thing i've also learnt is to get the thing you truly want, and don't compromise too much. If you need to compromise a lot, chances are that you can't afford it. Then save up, wait till the price is right, then execute.
Wild Falcon
28-10-10, 21:12
The point is we shouldn't borrow for the sake of borrowing. We should only borrow when we need to. A property can be a passive income only when it is fully paid. If you're still serving instalments, minus maintenance, there is hardly any "meat" left as passive income.
And for hypothetical $100k annual income, to take on $1.2 million of loan is pretty scary. That's why I would say sell the HDB. But then I think I'm on the conservative side :)
proud owner
28-10-10, 21:44
[just being an idiot] well I have plenty of 'gold stuff' during my digging sessions at home (go figure where i dig)
wow
your nose must be damn big
Ok just a little update on my insignificant struggle for a condo while the pros continue the discussion....
I just visited Duchess Crest and decided that it's not my cup of tea. So It's really down to 2 options now instead of 3. Where I am today I simply cannot afford getting a 1.5m place and still hold the HDB, so it's either selling the HDB for the place with some extra cash left, or holding on to the HDB and not make any purchase at all and just wait and accumulate more cash, with the hope that prices will dip a little and I can meet the unit I want halfway...
I'm tempted to sell the HDB and just get on with it with advice from gfoo.... but since this is my first attempt at property investment, I'm more cautious about doing the right thing...
What are the general sentiment on property prices dipping in the next 2 years? Sorry if I'm asking too many questions!
devilplate
28-10-10, 21:58
What are the general sentiment on property prices dipping in the next 2 years? Sorry if I'm asking too many questions!
nobody can give u the right answer:p
either way, they will haf hidden agenda:D
Bulls will say - Up
Bears will say - Down
It doesn't take an expert to figure out that for HDB, it will be down. . So be prepared to sell lower if you hold and later wan to sell. Can engage an agent now to test market, no obligation to sell. So when you finally made a decision, you can just sell, or dun sell. ;)
devilplate
28-10-10, 22:08
Bulls will say - Up
Bears will say - Down
It does take an expert to figure out that for HDB, it will be down. . So be prepared to sell lower if you hold and later wan to sell. Can engage an agent now to test market, no obligation to sell. So when you finally made a decision, you can just sell, or dun sell. ;)
my personal opinion doesnt matter
just feel itchy and type: HDB will be the last to fall in price:2cents: (i never own HDB)
my personal opinion doesnt matter
just feel itchy and type: HDB will be the last to fall in price:2cents: (i never own HDB)
How can that be?? It is all over the news! And just for my block alone, prices have dipped by quite a bit..M amazed by your opinion :beats-me-man:
Remember, remember, the Third of November
proud owner
28-10-10, 22:28
Remember, remember, the Third of November
ahahahha i am here watching ...
devilplate
28-10-10, 22:34
How can that be?? It is all over the news! And just for my block alone, prices have dipped by quite a bit..M amazed by your opinion :beats-me-man:
dipped in COV amount rite? its still transacting above valuation wor...how to dip in prices?
din notice any neighbourhood selling below valuation wor...which estate u stay?
ahahahha i am here watching ...
personally, i don't think it will happen as publicized. maybe some yishi yishi $100m here or there, nothing big.
trigger finger on shorts and gold now.
funny thing happening with interest rates and the bond market tho. If this carries on, gonna start refinancing my loans to fixed 5 years
devilplate
28-10-10, 22:42
funny thing happening with interest rates and the bond market tho. If this carries on, gonna start refinancing my loans to fixed 5 years
only Maybank offers tat rite? u noe other lobangs? i dun like MB leh
only Maybank offers tat rite? u noe other lobangs? i dun like MB leh
any bank also can, you just have to ask real nice. :)
devilplate
28-10-10, 23:01
any bank also can, you just have to ask real nice. :)
u got pte banking r/s ar?
normads like me ask many times from my banker oredi...lol
Thanks. The GEP option is really a far fetch idea, not easily achievable, I'll have to fall on the rental option as a last resort. You mean your friend rented a unit but didn't stay there at all? I didn't know that is allowed from the school's perspective... But if that is the case then it's possible to rent the cheapest and smallest unit for 2 years at about 84k for 2 years with zero hope for any returns, and not stay there.
It will be the worst case scenario I think. It might be a better deal in my case to buy a unit in duchess, rent out my hdb to subsidize part of the condo and still have a little hope of capital appreciation later. If the price doesn't increase at all, it might still be worthwhile to hold it and rent out to expat and local families who's trying to do the same as me?
Well, GEP is preferred if you want to enjoy Nanyang. They have many classes for GEP. The contents taught in GEP class is simply different from normal classes. If you look at the PLSE papers, there are always a few extremely difficult questions. Those are indeed taught in GEP or The Learning Lab. To get a score of 270+/300, you need to be able to answer those questions.
If you cannot get into GEP, you will not get attention in Nanyang - unless you are Jim Roger.
Thanks,
Richard
Well, GEP is preferred if you want to enjoy Nanyang. They have many classes for GEP. The contents taught in GEP class is simply different from normal classes. If you look at the PLSE papers, there are always a few extremely difficult questions. Those are indeed taught in GEP or The Learning Lab. To get a score of 270+/300, you need to be able to answer those questions.
If you cannot get into GEP, you will not get attention in Nanyang - unless you are Jim Roger.
Thanks,
Richard
Ok seems like I got something else to pay attention to. Thanks for the tip man...
dipped in COV amount rite? its still transacting above valuation wor...how to dip in prices?
din notice any neighbourhood selling below valuation wor...which estate u stay?
Am staying in D19 hougang, after selling my flat, I kpo go stock the recent transacted prices, all very low.. at least 30K lower then what I have sold between 11 to 15 storey same block.. quite a few ppl selling flat in my block...Then I also heard from my agent telling me that lucky i sold my flat earlier cos prices dipped liao.. still in contact with him cos he wanna help me take a look out for firesales studio hee hee...:D
rattydrama
29-10-10, 07:53
that is true in the north as well. the only exceptions are those HDB apartment bigger than 5 rooms - still can hold at this moment.
If the transaction price down, very soon the valuation price will also be down. HDBs transaction will take about 3 months to complete and the records released from HDB web is after the 2nd appointment so it is as good as 3 months late.
Am staying in D19 hougang, after selling my flat, I kpo go stock the recent transacted prices, all very low.. at least 30K lower then what I have sold between 11 to 15 storey same block.. quite a few ppl selling flat in my block...Then I also heard from my agent telling me that lucky i sold my flat earlier cos prices dipped liao.. still in contact with him cos he wanna help me take a look out for firesales studio hee hee...:D
devilplate
29-10-10, 10:07
Am staying in D19 hougang, after selling my flat, I kpo go stock the recent transacted prices, all very low.. at least 30K lower then what I have sold between 11 to 15 storey same block.. quite a few ppl selling flat in my block...Then I also heard from my agent telling me that lucky i sold my flat earlier cos prices dipped liao.. still in contact with him cos he wanna help me take a look out for firesales studio hee hee...:D
so u wana reduce ur loan or buy a studio?
so u wana reduce ur loan or buy a studio?
See which one come first, if good studio come by invest studio, if interest rate rise first then reduce loan, currently still holding hee hee.. Have to wait at least 3 years to refinance for the standard chart package :(
See which one come first, if good studio come by invest studio, if interest rate rise first then reduce loan, currently still holding hee hee.. Have to wait at least 3 years to refinance for the standard chart package :(
I'm also considering the same now... use what I have and invest in studio and rent out for the next few years.. then sell it and use the proceeds of that sale to fund the real deal (the <1km Bulls@#t) when the time is up... i need a way to make my current savings grow faster than what it is today in the bank
any recommendations on which property is good for short term investment? budget at < 1 mil
ISNT it worse off for u to reduce ur loan and ended up with no spare cash?? imagine u r retrenched etc or u nid emergency cash to tide smthing over...medical fees etc etc...
I ALWAYS FEEL SAFER WITH SPARE HOT CASH ON HAND
I am curious as something suddenly crossed my mind regarding your question. If I am really retrenched, wouldn't it be worse to have an outstanding loan of 80% every month to pay? :beats-me-man:
dipped in COV amount rite? its still transacting above valuation wor...how to dip in prices?
1st COV will drop, after that all the valuers will play along and start giving lower valuations "based on market condition". this is how HDB price moves.
I'm also considering the same now... use what I have and invest in studio and rent out for the next few years.. then sell it and use the proceeds of that sale to fund the real deal (the <1km Bulls@#t) when the time is up... i need a way to make my current savings grow faster than what it is today in the bank
any recommendations on which property is good for short term investment? budget at < 1 mil
Hopefully you can really flip for a fat profit within a few years.. At least have to hold 3 yrs b4 you flip, if not kanna the stamp duty..
devilplate
29-10-10, 12:18
I am curious as something suddenly crossed my mind regarding your question. If I am really retrenched, wouldn't it be worse to have an outstanding loan of 80% every month to pay? :beats-me-man:
u r saying tat u intend to use ur spare cash to reduce ur loan amount(not full settlement) so still got installment to pay rite?
let say u got 200k cash on hand now....if retrenched, still can afford to pay the 50mths of 4k mthly installment....i am sure u r able to find a new job within 50mths...
but if u use up all to reduce the loan....let say installment become 2k....and wat happens if u got retrenched?
I'm also considering the same now... use what I have and invest in studio and rent out for the next few years.. then sell it and use the proceeds of that sale to fund the real deal (the <1km Bulls@#t) when the time is up... i need a way to make my current savings grow faster than what it is today in the bank
imho u should not do that. u r assuming your next studio investment will always make money, AND u r also assuming u can buy yet the next "real" deal on time at a good price too. If you are so lucky with timing the pty market, u dun need all these already.
since DC is not ur cup of tea, u could just really sell the HDB and finance your "real deal" now. Since u r buying for staying, at least even when the market is down, it doesn't matter.
devilplate
29-10-10, 12:20
1st COV will drop, after that all the valuers will play along and start giving lower valuations "based on market condition". this is how HDB price moves.
anyw, i hope prices to stay flat or drop abit for HDB so tat govt dun hf to come up with new cooling measures:D
den after GE, can open the PR floodgate again
Hopefully you can really flip for a fat profit within a few years.. At least have to hold 3 yrs b4 you flip, if not kanna the stamp duty..
I can hold for about 4 years.. but I have to do it now... doesn't have to be fat lar.. just 100k profit will do for me.. i'm easily satisfied.. haha i have one and only one main goal ... have a place which i can comfortably afford in d10 for registration purpose.. but i need to take care of family cashflow too so that's where the investment part comes in...
imho u should not do that. u r assuming your next studio investment will always make money, AND u r also assuming u can buy yet the next "real" deal on time at a good price too. If you are so lucky with timing the pty market, u dun need all these already.
since DC is not ur cup of tea, u could just really sell the HDB and finance your "real deal" now. Since u r buying for staying, at least even when the market is down, it doesn't matter.
i know what you mean.. my head is bursting for considering the options.. i haven't rule out the selling of hdb yet and its definitely a viable option..
u r saying tat u intend to use ur spare cash to reduce ur loan amount(not full settlement) so still got installment to pay rite?
let say u got 200k cash on hand now....if retrenched, still can afford to pay the 50mths of 4k mthly installment....i am sure u r able to find a new job within 50mths...
but if u use up all to reduce the loan....let say installment become 2k....and wat happens if u got retrenched?
Ok I shall go and think real hard about it..
I can hold for about 4 years.. but I have to do it now... doesn't have to be fat lar.. just 100k profit will do for me.. i'm easily satisfied.. haha i have one and only one main goal ... have a place which i can comfortably afford in d10 for registration purpose.. but i need to take care of family cashflow too so that's where the investment part comes in...
Wah! 100K profit wihtin 4 years is ALOT!:scared-4: Got such lobang I also wan, must share..
Wah! 100K profit wihtin 4 years is ALOT!:scared-4: Got such lobang I also wan, must share..
It's a lot? I don't think so ... the properties trend I'm looking at all seems to reflect profitability of 200-400k? unless I'm not reading it correctly....
It's a lot? I don't think so ... the properties trend I'm looking at all seems to reflect profitability of 200-400k?
I think times are different..Those who bought during 2003 -2005 and sold now should be laughing all the way to the bank, but I will assume now to be the peak. So 100K profit in 4 years is very very good returns. Maybe I am pessimistic :D
It is still possible if one can find the hidden gem. However, it is rather rare now as compared to just after the lehman brother in early 2009.
Wah! 100K profit wihtin 4 years is ALOT!:scared-4: Got such lobang I also wan, must share..
why need 4yrs to achieve 100k profits? it's going to eat into ur profits wf the maintaince fees and interest rates and minor touchup of hse.
Mine was just 3-6mths of holding and hit 100k+ profits
Nestor, you have kids.
Plan for the very worst, calculate on that assumption, then act
you are now planning for a rosy picture, and that assumption is dangerous
Haha gfoo is very down to earth.. I like it that you're pulling me back whenever it gets too speculative...
I discussed with my wife and we might just sell our HDB and get another property and forget about the double property thing for now... In fact we will try to arrange for a 2nd viewing for a old property at about 1.35.. and sell our place
Nestor, you have kids.
Plan for the very worst, calculate on that assumption, then act
you are now planning for a rosy picture, and that assumption is dangerous
I think times are different..Those who bought during 2003 -2005 and sold now should be laughing all the way to the bank, but I will assume now to be the peak. So 100K profit in 4 years is very very good returns. Maybe I am pessimistic :D
think 1997-1999, you will become too optimistic.
my first post, learning a lot from this thread alone. Thank you guys for sharing!
Originally Posted by gfoo
life is short, especially so when you have kids - they stay young only so often.
why stretch yourself with multiple properties and worry about repayments?
treat property as an expense. buy one that gives you the best possible lifestyle that you can afford comfortably, even taking into consideration a downturn or worse. of course buy one that isn't at a peak in prices.
cash in bank and a good property you stay in gives you room to breathe, and focus.
peace of mind, and family harmony far outstrips an extra $1-2k in nett rental income; fear of downturn coz you bought at peak; asset depreciation due to tenant fukwits; etc etc
(this advice applies specifically to this guy, and not to the other richie richs in this forum.)
I agree totally, was contemplating to sell my EC when it reached 5 years MOP this year and upgrade to a FH, explored many different scenarios. However after considering that I have a kid and planned to have a second, me and my wife decided to stay on in our "cheap" EC for now. At least can sleep in peace and have less white hair :p
Nestor, you have kids.
Plan for the very worst, calculate on that assumption, then act
you are now planning for a rosy picture, and that assumption is dangerous
Can't agree more!
One expert from this forum gave me a quote which I find it very meaningful during march when i was v stressed over whether to sell my hdb.
"It is not what you lose to gain, but what you stand to lose that matters."- quoted by condorich.
Think Mr Tharman Shanmugaratnam can only shake head at comments & attitude here.....
So easily satisfied and no risk taker, 3 condos happy already meh?
http://sg.yfittopostblog.com/2010/10/28/singaporeans-should-strive-for-excellence-tharman/
Singaporeans should strive for excellence: Tharman
Finance Minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam (http://sg.search.yahoo.com/search?p=tharman+shanmugaratnam&fr=fp-today&cs=bz) has urged Singaporeans to strive for excellence instead of just being competent.
Speaking to an audience that included entrepreneurs, staff and 80 student leaders from Hwa Chong Institution (HCI) (http://sg.search.yahoo.com/search?p=hwa+chong+institution&fr=fp-today&cs=bz) on Wednesday, Mr Tharman said Singaporeans are satisfied with being competent at what they do, with few striving to be exceptional.
This, he said, is a challenge that the country will need to overcome.
The Straits Times quoted Mr Tharman as saying, “We are always in danger in Singapore of mistaking excellence for competence. Most people in Singapore are happy to be competent, above average than exceptional.”
He also said that there are “not that many people in Singapore who really want to be extremely good at what they are doing”.
Today newspaper also reported him as saying, “I half suspect that once we get to 75 per cent of that level — which is quite good — you think that’s good enough, you’re already better than the rest in Singapore.”
“And that urge to want go much farther and to be exceptional — not because someone is looking or you are trying to win a competition, but you just want to be exceptional — that urge isn’t there in Singapore,” he added.
The Minister also said such attitude may result in Singaporeans losing out to those who survive in countries plagued by problems such as poverty and corruption.
.............
Think Mr Tharman Shanmugaratnam can only shake head at comments & attitude here.....
So easily satisfied and no risk taker, 3 condos happy already meh?
http://sg.yfittopostblog.com/2010/10/28/singaporeans-should-strive-for-excellence-tharman/
Singaporeans should strive for excellence: Tharman
Finance Minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam (http://sg.search.yahoo.com/search?p=tharman+shanmugaratnam&fr=fp-today&cs=bz) has urged Singaporeans to strive for excellence instead of just being competent.
Speaking to an audience that included entrepreneurs, staff and 80 student leaders from Hwa Chong Institution (HCI) (http://sg.search.yahoo.com/search?p=hwa+chong+institution&fr=fp-today&cs=bz) on Wednesday, Mr Tharman said Singaporeans are satisfied with being competent at what they do, with few striving to be exceptional.
This, he said, is a challenge that the country will need to overcome.
The Straits Times quoted Mr Tharman as saying, “We are always in danger in Singapore of mistaking excellence for competence. Most people in Singapore are happy to be competent, above average than exceptional.”
He also said that there are “not that many people in Singapore who really want to be extremely good at what they are doing”.
Today newspaper also reported him as saying, “I half suspect that once we get to 75 per cent of that level — which is quite good — you think that’s good enough, you’re already better than the rest in Singapore.”
“And that urge to want go much farther and to be exceptional — not because someone is looking or you are trying to win a competition, but you just want to be exceptional — that urge isn’t there in Singapore,” he added.
The Minister also said such attitude may result in Singaporeans losing out to those who survive in countries plagued by problems such as poverty and corruption.
.............
haha i wonder the minister owns how many condos.. or bungalows? :p
hey you! must strive for excellence ar! not just competence ok!
i find it damn weird that ministers find it necessary to bang on and on with this kind of message to citizens. we are still a naggy nanny state, i guess.
did mark zuckerberg have gw bush banging this into his head? did bill gates? steve jobs?
ps: obama's yes we can comes close but it was more of an uplifting speech to a downtrodden and distraught mass... singapore govt's message is an incessant nagging that i find terribly irritating...
Think Mr Tharman Shanmugaratnam can only shake head at comments & attitude here.....
So easily satisfied and no risk taker, 3 condos happy already meh?
http://sg.yfittopostblog.com/2010/10/28/singaporeans-should-strive-for-excellence-tharman/
Singaporeans should strive for excellence: Tharman
Finance Minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam (http://sg.search.yahoo.com/search?p=tharman+shanmugaratnam&fr=fp-today&cs=bz) has urged Singaporeans to strive for excellence instead of just being competent.
Speaking to an audience that included entrepreneurs, staff and 80 student leaders from Hwa Chong Institution (HCI) (http://sg.search.yahoo.com/search?p=hwa+chong+institution&fr=fp-today&cs=bz) on Wednesday, Mr Tharman said Singaporeans are satisfied with being competent at what they do, with few striving to be exceptional.
This, he said, is a challenge that the country will need to overcome.
The Straits Times quoted Mr Tharman as saying, “We are always in danger in Singapore of mistaking excellence for competence. Most people in Singapore are happy to be competent, above average than exceptional.”
He also said that there are “not that many people in Singapore who really want to be extremely good at what they are doing”.
Today newspaper also reported him as saying, “I half suspect that once we get to 75 per cent of that level — which is quite good — you think that’s good enough, you’re already better than the rest in Singapore.”
“And that urge to want go much farther and to be exceptional — not because someone is looking or you are trying to win a competition, but you just want to be exceptional — that urge isn’t there in Singapore,” he added.
The Minister also said such attitude may result in Singaporeans losing out to those who survive in countries plagued by problems such as poverty and corruption.
.............
wow
your nose must be damn big
Quite la quite la hahaha....
Wild Falcon
29-10-10, 20:12
Have you considered other good affiliated schools that are in less "expensive" location? For Girl's school - MGS (nearer Upper Bukit Timah) and St Nicks (Ang Moh Kio). Boy's school - Catholic High etc. Then you may be able to afford both. All my friends from those schools turn out well, as in not "pia kia" type. I know of someone rented a place an old condo near MGS for only like $3k per month and manage to get her daughter into that school. It is a very good school that will provide a holistic well-rounded education. NYPS is not the only good school around.... You may want to widen your search....
Ok just a little update on my insignificant struggle for a condo while the pros continue the discussion....
I just visited Duchess Crest and decided that it's not my cup of tea. So It's really down to 2 options now instead of 3. Where I am today I simply cannot afford getting a 1.5m place and still hold the HDB, so it's either selling the HDB for the place with some extra cash left, or holding on to the HDB and not make any purchase at all and just wait and accumulate more cash, with the hope that prices will dip a little and I can meet the unit I want halfway...
I'm tempted to sell the HDB and just get on with it with advice from gfoo.... but since this is my first attempt at property investment, I'm more cautious about doing the right thing...
What are the general sentiment on property prices dipping in the next 2 years? Sorry if I'm asking too many questions!
proud owner
29-10-10, 20:16
Quite la quite la hahaha....
happy for you
you know what they say about men with big nose right ??
proud owner
29-10-10, 20:17
has anyone got the full report ??????????
i just got this from a friend in spore :
SINGAPORE) The worst- kept secret in the property market is out in the open. Not only are developers less upbeat about the future but a third of them actually expect prices of new homes to decline. And market performance for the suburban residential sector may be the worst hit.
Wild Falcon
29-10-10, 20:22
Read TODAY. Pls note this is just a survey from DEVELOPERS like Wing Tai and they have been saying the same thing about luxury units will fly and mass market will crash for like ages :) Luxury now equals to units less than 500 sq ft like Suites @ orchard and Robinson Suites and Spottiswood. The smaller the unit - the more luxurious it is in Singapore context. ;)
has anyone got the full report ??????????
i just got this from a friend in spore :
SINGAPORE) The worst- kept secret in the property market is out in the open. Not only are developers less upbeat about the future but a third of them actually expect prices of new homes to decline. And market performance for the suburban residential sector may be the worst hit.
PROPERTYGURU - Saturday, October 30
Property developers are less upbeat of the future, with nearly 34 percent of them expecting a decline in new home prices, according to the latest readings of Real Estate Sentiment Index (RESI).Following the cooling measures announced on August 30, a third of developers polled for the third quarter expect less than 10 percent decline in prices for new residential launches over the next six months. None of the developers polled in the previous two quarters had expected price declines.Only 44 percent of respondents expect more launches of new residential units over the next six months, down from 68 percent in Q2.The sentiment indices slid below the significant mark of 5 in Q3, suggesting that respondents were less optimistic in the quarter and expect to see more uncertain market conditions over the next half year.Polled on the future performance of the suburban residential sector, the net balance in Q3 stood at -43 percent. This means that most respondents expect a worse performance over the sector in the next six months. The net balance in Q2 hit +27 percent, suggesting better future performance.“The strong historical price growth in the sector is not likely to be sustained moving forward. Downward adjustment to the price growth, if it occurs in the next few months, will ease some pressure on the affordability level of mass-market residential properties in suburban areas,” said Associate Professor Sing Tien Foo of NUS.While the net balance for the prime residential sector’s future performance is still positive, it has been seeing significant decline, from 54 percent in Q1 to +32 percent in Q2 and +3 percent in Q3.Around 70 percent of the respondents believe the government could further intervene to cool the property market.They also cited several other factors that could affect sentiment over the next six months, including a slowdown in the global economy, an increase in the supply of development land, too many new property launches, rising interest rates and tightening financing/liquidity in the debt market.About 84 percent of respondents expect a further increase in the supply of development land over the next six months, while 90 percent expect that the government will further ramp up the supply of BTO flats, DBSS flats and EC units.About 76 percent and 64 percent expect that the recent property cooling measures will significantly affect the HDB resale and mass private housing market segments, respectively, over the next six months.
happy for you
you know what they say about men with big nose right ??
Yesh keke for the compliments i give you the full writeup below... I mean above... Kaka
den after GE, can open the PR floodgate again
u saw WKS new post/division created? Take a deep breathe.
Have you considered other good affiliated schools that are in less "expensive" location? For Girl's school - MGS (nearer Upper Bukit Timah) and St Nicks (Ang Moh Kio). Boy's school - Catholic High etc. Then you may be able to afford both. All my friends from those schools turn out well, as in not "pia kia" type. I know of someone rented a place an old condo near MGS for only like $3k per month and manage to get her daughter into that school. It is a very good school that will provide a holistic well-rounded education. NYPS is not the only good school around.... You may want to widen your search....
Yup I'm considering some other schools as well and is trying to educate myself, thanks to the chaps in this forum, in property investment. Actually I will very much want to use what I have, which is not much, for investment but for now the kid's welfare and future will have to come first.
Whatever that I'm going to buy, I hope it appreciates in value... I'm looking at buying Shelford Regency, really old but affordable for me with a good size... Any warnings before I sink my hardearn money in?
rattydrama
30-10-10, 10:07
sign of prosperity.:tongue3:
http://www.illinoisphoto.com/main/v/editorial/window-peeking/super+big+nose.jpg.html
happy for you
you know what they say about men with big nose right ??
Yup I'm considering some other schools as well and is trying to educate myself, thanks to the chaps in this forum, in property investment. Actually I will very much want to use what I have, which is not much, for investment but for now the kid's welfare and future will have to come first.
Whatever that I'm going to buy, I hope it appreciates in value... I'm looking at buying Shelford Regency, really old but affordable for me with a good size... Any warnings before I sink my hardearn money in?
shelford regency looks cheap now ($1200psf) compared to other condos in the same area and category. but look at the historical price of shelford regency and you will find that if u pay $1,200psf you are setting the price record for that condo!
but for what it is, it is pretty good value for money especially in this current market. i would buy it if i were aiming for elite schools in that region, coupled with that nice district address.
don't listen to wild falcon and his other so-called "good" schools crap. if you have lived and worked in singapore long enough, you will know that coming from an elite academic pedigree is everything. nothing less than the best will suffice, in order to make it.
look at our doctors, lawyers, politicians, etc... and find out what schools the majority came from. Also bear in mind NUS law and medical faculties are highly selective and undergrads come only from a select 2 or 3 schools. those who say schools dun matter, and only academic results do, are deluded because people forget that selection into law and med faculty are highly based on interviews and "other factors" as well. school pedigree? you bet!
what about investment banks? they also only take in the top grade graduates and where your child spends his/her early academic life has a great impact on his future aspirations and ambitions, besides his academic grades and college/university he graduates from.
Wild Falcon
30-10-10, 21:21
Lord Anus, I gather you're from NYPS and all laywers and doctors are from NYPS issit? We're just suggesting there're other good schools around like MGS - and by the way LKY's wife who was a lawyer was from MGS. How can anyone have such a shallow definition of success as only "doctors", "lawyers" and politicians and only from NYPS? Goodness me! It is no wonder nowadays, the children lack creativity. Because every parent want their child to be doctors, lawyers and politician regardless of their natural inclination and interest.
And I'm pedigree all the way because I have very kiasu parents - the type who makes sure u learn piano, go to good schools, force you to wear braces and straighten your teeth before you grow up. I just think there are numerous good schools with strong affiliation - and NYPS is NOT the only one and possibly widening the scope to include other good schools. It worries me to see parents like Lord Anus having such a myopic view of success. Success = happiness and parents should just strive to allow their children to discover their own happiness and not necessarily becoming a lawyer!
And trust me, if your child is stupid, no amount of good PRIMARY school will get him anywhere. And if he is clever, he will still do well during his PSLE to get into RI which does NOT take afffiliation, i.e. real meritocracy.
Yes, most of the politicians are from RI right? But try tracing back to their primary schools and you would be surprised some fairly obscure names surface.
I pity your child.
francophile
30-10-10, 22:30
Lord Anus, I gather you're from NYPS and all laywers and doctors are from NYPS issit? We're just suggesting there're other good schools around like MGS - and by the way LKY's wife who was a lawyer was from MGS. How can anyone have such a shallow definition of success as only "doctors", "lawyers" and politicians and only from NYPS? Goodness me! It is no wonder nowadays, the children lack creativity. Because every parent want their child to be doctors, lawyers and politician regardless of their natural inclination and interest.
And I'm pedigree all the way because I have very kiasu parents - the type who makes sure u learn piano, go to good schools, force you to wear braces and straighten your teeth before you grow up. I just think there are numerous good schools with strong affiliation - and NYPS is NOT the only one and possibly widening the scope to include other good schools. It worries me to see parents like Lord Anus having such a myopic view of success. Success = happiness and parents should just strive to allow their children to discover their own happiness and not necessarily becoming a lawyer!
And trust me, if your child is stupid, no amount of good PRIMARY school will get him anywhere. And if he is clever, he will still do well during his PSLE to get into RI which does NOT take afffiliation, i.e. real meritocracy.
Yes, most of the politicians are from RI right? But try tracing back to their primary schools and you would be surprised some fairly obscure names surface.
I pity your child.
you took the words out of my mouth .I couldn't agree more
devilplate
30-10-10, 23:13
success is not just the schools u attended and watever shyty cert u got....given me a choice again, i will nvr gona spend 3 silly yrs for a useless toilet paper degree again:doh:
i agree, RI is a crap school. :)
Wild Falcon
30-10-10, 23:40
Your degree is not useless. I'm sure it has somewhat " moulded" you to become one of the most prolific property investor in condosingapore.com forum. :)
School days are still the best days of my life - so if one can extend the schooling years resulting in a prolonged adolescence, why not?
I always tell my niece, don't grow up so fast....Adulthood is not so fun. But looks like nowadays, childhood also not fun :(
success is not just the schools u attended and watever shyty cert u got....given me a choice again, i will nvr gona spend 3 silly yrs for a useless toilet paper degree again:doh:
devilplate
30-10-10, 23:44
Your degree is not useless. I'm sure it has somewhat " moulded" you to become one of the most prolific property investor in condosingapore.com forum. :)
School days are still the best days of my life - so if one can extend the schooling years resulting in a prolonged adolescence, why not?
I always tell my niece, don't grow up so fast....Adulthood is not so fun. But looks like nowadays, childhood also not fun :(
i only say 3yrs degree is useless...pri, sec, jc/poly still beneficial(basic knowledge)
only pri sch days r fun...totally nvr study one...even during PSLE exam period...haha...carefree:ashamed1:
it seems like kids today dun hf time to enjoy during pri sch days hor...piano, tuition, etc...wah piang...lol
i agree, RI is a crap school. :)
well **** you, you ACS son of a bitch :D
haha, you sound like a true loser in life
let me reiterate, in case you didn't get it the first time round:
i will settle for nothing but the best for my kids (if i have kids one day)
why do you teach your kids to accept second best? what a loser!
Lord Anus, I gather you're from NYPS and all laywers and doctors are from NYPS issit? We're just suggesting there're other good schools around like MGS - and by the way LKY's wife who was a lawyer was from MGS. How can anyone have such a shallow definition of success as only "doctors", "lawyers" and politicians and only from NYPS? Goodness me! It is no wonder nowadays, the children lack creativity. Because every parent want their child to be doctors, lawyers and politician regardless of their natural inclination and interest.
And I'm pedigree all the way because I have very kiasu parents - the type who makes sure u learn piano, go to good schools, force you to wear braces and straighten your teeth before you grow up. I just think there are numerous good schools with strong affiliation - and NYPS is NOT the only one and possibly widening the scope to include other good schools. It worries me to see parents like Lord Anus having such a myopic view of success. Success = happiness and parents should just strive to allow their children to discover their own happiness and not necessarily becoming a lawyer!
And trust me, if your child is stupid, no amount of good PRIMARY school will get him anywhere. And if he is clever, he will still do well during his PSLE to get into RI which does NOT take afffiliation, i.e. real meritocracy.
Yes, most of the politicians are from RI right? But try tracing back to their primary schools and you would be surprised some fairly obscure names surface.
I pity your child.
devilplate
31-10-10, 02:22
Smtimes study too much== slave to coy
MGS girls typically grow up to be housewives and SAHMs.
the luckier and smarter of these MGS girls marry richer men and become tai tais and society belles.
great ambitions you have for your daughter, wild falcon.
i personally know many of these MGS girls and have bedded quite a few as well. thank goodness i have never gotten any pregnant otherwise i'd now be tied down to a fat, vain, utterly useless spendthrift and parasite who sits at home all day watching tv and screaming at the maid.
good luck to your future son in law. he'll need it.
ACS vs RI cat fight !!!
:witches-brew:
Wow.. Erm let's not get into the interschool debate here.. MGS, ACS, RI or NYPS are all excellent schools with rich school culture. I personally came from a Neighbourhood school but almost all my friends came from the better schools such as above, so there is a distinctive difference as far as I can tell.
I operate on the perception that it is the parent's responsibility to open doors for their children, and it's up to the child to decide what they want to do with it. So even if I broke my back, got my daughter into NYPS, and she decided that she wants to be a musician or anything that doesn't require academic excellence (nothing against musicians), that's perfectly fine with me. All I am concerned with is opening the doors at the right time for her.
But that's a little off topic haha... Sounds like content for singaporemotherhood.com
Wow.. Erm let's not get into the interschool debate here.. MGS, ACS, RI or NYPS are all excellent schools with rich school culture. I personally came from a Neighbourhood school but almost all my friends came from the better schools such as above, so there is a distinctive difference as far as I can tell.
I operate on the perception that it is the parent's responsibility to open doors for their children, and it's up to the child to decide what they want to do with it. So even if I broke my back, got my daughter into NYPS, and she decided that she wants to be a musician or anything that doesn't require academic excellence (nothing against musicians), that's perfectly fine with me. All I am concerned with is opening the doors at the right time for her.
But that's a little off topic haha... Sounds like content for singaporemotherhood.com
Saying being Musician dont need academic excellence is just asking to be flamed. Musicians dont have to be band keyboardist - they may be world renowned pianist. Not to say one is better than the other but the latter requires years of hard work and schooling.
you took the words out of my mouth .I couldn't agree more
Now I know why that arse went around to other threads venting on others for nothing. What a loser.
devilplate
31-10-10, 11:54
Now I know why that arse went around to other threads venting on others for nothing. What a loser.
Lose moolah in casino perhaps....
But that's a little off topic haha... Sounds like content for singaporemotherhood.com
i think it's very pertinent esp for this forum - some here buy property for investment or collection, and many here base decisions on familial needs.
the members of this forum, whether owners or aspirants, are already better off than most of singaporean society - they do not need to worry about the basic necessities of living. some are nouveau, crossing various milestones as they grow up - and some of these have crossed precariously so as to buy the 'storyline' of better living and lifestyles. such aspirants will find this forum useful as sometimes the line is so thin, that when a wrong step is taken, mr. market hurls them right back to the starting line.
we all should work for the best possible happiness and bliss for the family and next generation - as we all can't take it to the grave in diamond encrusted, gold gilded tombs.
hence my question: isn't it better to stay in a HDB, extremely well appointed and comfortable, with a huge buffer to ensure complete continuity of a better than average lifestyle for the family; or to aspire to a condo with just acceptable appointments and the loss of buffer - so that one can boast a non public housing address during chinese new year?
visiting so many open houses and resale units, i am troubled. The more i venture into mass market and lower psfs, the more shambled, bare, and lackadaisical the sellers' living arrangements become. there are many not like a lot of you who buy with an intention to renovate and furnish swee swee. juxtapose this with the fact that almost 80% of mass market buyers are locals and almost all of them upgraders - things start to get worrisome.
sans neighbours, sometimes it is more respectable to stay in a well appointed HDB in a nice locality.
there are 4 categories of schools available to singaporeans:
- Academic excellence
- Societal excellence
- Ordinaries & government
- Schools for rejects & ITE
Each has it's own merits, and no single school has ever been a master of both.
Places are NYPS, Chinese High, RI etc are great places academically.
Saying being Musician dont need academic excellence is just asking to be flamed. Musicians dont have to be band keyboardist - they may be world renowned pianist. Not to say one is better than the other but the latter requires years of hard work and schooling.
Ahh that didn't occur to me... So I take back my rods on a musician not needing academic excellence. Apologies if I offended anyone here.. I played the electric guitar and was pretty good at it being self taught so I wasn't thinking right..
Ahh that didn't occur to me... So I take back my rods on a musician not needing academic excellence. Apologies if I offended anyone here.. I played the electric guitar and was pretty good at it being self taught so I wasn't thinking right..
No probs bro, everyone entitled to opinions but must accept fair debate if contested haha. Open discussion! Btw i have grade 8 piano prolly thats why i kaopeh about this. Good to meet another fellow musician.
...
sans neighbours, sometimes it is more respectable to stay in a well appointed HDB in a nice locality.
Bro foo, u got a point. If not the toopid ruling change just like that without warning i would definitely buy hdb and not another private. Freak, i grew up in hdb for almost 30 years man.
there are 4 categories of schools available to singaporeans:
- Academic excellence
- Societal excellence
- Ordinaries & government
- Schools for rejects & ITE
Each has it's own merits, and no single school has ever been a master of both.
Places are NYPS, Chinese High, RI etc are great places academically.
I find it unnerving that after twenty over years from all the elite vs neighbourhood sch (or worse - elite sch A vs elite sch B) debate many are forced to face this crap again. It's like streaming all over again.
hence my question: isn't it better to stay in a HDB, extremely well appointed and comfortable, with a huge buffer to ensure complete continuity of a better than average lifestyle for the family; or to aspire to a condo with just acceptable appointments and the loss of buffer - so that one can boast a non public housing address during chinese new year?
Very true... this is actually exactly why I didn't look at buying a private property for over a decade since I started working (and hence the ignorance now)... If it's not for my baby girl I probably wouldn't consider buying a place at D10.. so I say again.. I truly envy people who have good schools affiliation
I truly envy people who have good schools affiliation
Ten years ago when I was hiring someone, he put his elite secondary school in his CV. I gave it a laugh. I only look at which university and most importantly which subject u are studying.
Thanks,
Richard
Ten years ago when I was hiring someone, he put his elite secondary school in his CV. I gave it a laugh. I only look at which university and most importantly which subject u are studying.
Thanks,
Richard
That's not what I meant..
When I hire I also skip the primary/secondary schools actually... What I meant is parents who came from these schools, because they are old boys and girls, their children will be grant automatic entry so if they want their kids to be in these schools, they don't really need to go that extra mile for that...
For people like me, we will have to start the ball rolling so that our kid's future generation will yield the benefits.. If my children want to sent their children to a good school, can you imagine D10's property pricing in 30 years time if propertism is in effect, NYPS is still there and the whole affiliate thing is still valid? So the way I see it, my struggles now will go a long way...Of cos I may be gravely mistaken
No probs bro, everyone entitled to opinions but must accept fair debate if contested haha. Open discussion! Btw i have grade 8 piano prolly thats why i kaopeh about this. Good to meet another fellow musician.
Cool.. I always wanted to learn the piano/keyboard (actually pop keyboard more) but couldn't get far.. ahah.. I even attended some courses... I'll blame it on my lack of self discipine :(
success is not just the schools u attended and watever shyty cert u got....given me a choice again, i will nvr gona spend 3 silly yrs for a useless toilet paper degree again:doh:
I only spent 1.5yrs to get toilet paper ha. Anyway I also from so call elite school in the east with chinese history, got like 7 points but still chose Poly as I thought that was more practical than As cert. After working couple of years then take on part time toilet paper. Boy that was a tough period studying and working.
Wild Falcon
31-10-10, 23:38
I am not a loser by your definition because I happen to be one of the professions that you so admire.
And really, I'm saying that there are different good schools. In this case, the protagonist is just wondering if he can afford to buy a place near NYPS to give his children a bright future. I'm just trying to be helpful and suggesting other good schools at slightly less expensive localities. And it doesn't mean that not getting into NYPS means his children's future will be bleak. Parents shouldn't thinking this way. They are just 7 years old and will live until 80 years old. Even if they can't get into a good school at 7, they can still have a bright future in the next 74 years. NYPS produce the most number of doctors and lawyers - maybe - I don't have the stats. But looking at the type of parents who manage to get their kids in there - even if they suck at O levels, the parents (rich or poor) will send them overseas so that at the end of the day, they still become doctors and lawyer right? It doesn't mean NYPS provide the BEST education, the profile of the parents (i.e. TOP KIASU) ensure that their children will go to the best enrichment, and even if the kids do badly, you can be sure the parents will sacrifice their own enjoyments to fulfill their children's wants.
I'm just providing an alternative view. I notice you are VERY MAINSTREAM in your thinking, probably from a very structured education since young. It's ok to be mainstream in your thinking. But there's no need to call people losers just because they choose to take risk on a less trodden path.
BTW, the tai-tai school is SCGS. You are clearly not in the league.
haha, you sound like a true loser in life
let me reiterate, in case you didn't get it the first time round:
i will settle for nothing but the best for my kids (if i have kids one day)
why do you teach your kids to accept second best? what a loser!
yes the tai tai school is most definitely SCGS.
MGS: more housewives, not many tai tai.
why? not appealing enough to rich men :tongue3: :tongue3:
I am not a loser by your definition because I happen to be one of the professions that you so admire.
And really, I'm saying that there are different good schools. In this case, the protagonist is just wondering if he can afford to buy a place near NYPS to give his children a bright future. I'm just trying to be helpful and suggesting other good schools at slightly less expensive localities. And it doesn't mean that not getting into NYPS means his children's future will be bleak. Parents shouldn't thinking this way. They are just 7 years old and will live until 80 years old. Even if they can't get into a good school at 7, they can still have a bright future in the next 74 years. NYPS produce the most number of doctors and lawyers - maybe - I don't have the stats. But looking at the type of parents who manage to get their kids in there - even if they suck at O levels, the parents (rich or poor) will send them overseas so that at the end of the day, they still become doctors and lawyer right? It doesn't mean NYPS provide the BEST education, the profile of the parents (i.e. TOP KIASU) ensure that their children will go to the best enrichment, and even if the kids do badly, you can be sure the parents will sacrifice their own enjoyments to fulfill their children's wants.
I'm just providing an alternative view. I notice you are VERY MAINSTREAM in your thinking, probably from a very structured education since young. It's ok to be mainstream in your thinking. But there's no need to call people losers just because they choose to take risk on a less trodden path.
BTW, the tai-tai school is SCGS. You are clearly not in the league.
MGS more housewives? They have no future and cannot upgrade to be tai-tais? :p
They are just too 'stone' and too tom-boy to become tai-tais? Tai-Tais nowsadays not easy you know - must be involved in a lot of activities + charities events when outside and manage everything nicely at home so that their husbands can focus on their careers. They help others too (not just their own kids vs housewives) :D
I am not a loser by your definition because I happen to be one of the professions that you so admire.
And really, I'm saying that there are different good schools. In this case, the protagonist is just wondering if he can afford to buy a place near NYPS to give his children a bright future. I'm just trying to be helpful and suggesting other good schools at slightly less expensive localities. And it doesn't mean that not getting into NYPS means his children's future will be bleak. Parents shouldn't thinking this way. They are just 7 years old and will live until 80 years old. Even if they can't get into a good school at 7, they can still have a bright future in the next 74 years. NYPS produce the most number of doctors and lawyers - maybe - I don't have the stats. But looking at the type of parents who manage to get their kids in there - even if they suck at O levels, the parents (rich or poor) will send them overseas so that at the end of the day, they still become doctors and lawyer right? It doesn't mean NYPS provide the BEST education, the profile of the parents (i.e. TOP KIASU) ensure that their children will go to the best enrichment, and even if the kids do badly, you can be sure the parents will sacrifice their own enjoyments to fulfill their children's wants.
I'm just providing an alternative view. I notice you are VERY MAINSTREAM in your thinking, probably from a very structured education since young. It's ok to be mainstream in your thinking. But there's no need to call people losers just because they choose to take risk on a less trodden path.
BTW, the tai-tai school is SCGS. You are clearly not in the league.
If that is the long-term plan for future generation, you better buy a freehold property there. I know of someone who got the first kid into the elite school that is easily more than 15km from the home. First one can fetch them but no the return trip. Has to pay $100/mth on school bus. The second one got in and have to pay more than $180/mth. Third one is going in this year. Bus fare alone will cost more than $500/mth. You can at least passed on to the next generation if it is a freehold property.
That's not what I meant..
When I hire I also skip the primary/secondary schools actually... What I meant is parents who came from these schools, because they are old boys and girls, their children will be grant automatic entry so if they want their kids to be in these schools, they don't really need to go that extra mile for that...
For people like me, we will have to start the ball rolling so that our kid's future generation will yield the benefits.. If my children want to sent their children to a good school, can you imagine D10's property pricing in 30 years time if propertism is in effect, NYPS is still there and the whole affiliate thing is still valid? So the way I see it, my struggles now will go a long way...Of cos I may be gravely mistaken
I personally came from a Neighbourhood school but almost all my friends came from the better schools such as above, so there is a distinctive difference as far as I can tell.
I operate on the perception that it is the parent's responsibility to open doors for their children, and it's up to the child to decide what they want to do with it. So even if I broke my back, got my daughter into NYPS,
Please don't blame others, like your school for example. Take personal responsibility for what you are now. Only then can you grow.
What are the distinctive differences?
Nestor, if you are that concerned about your kids and ready to break your backs,
1) take 2 jobs.
2) time for you to take additional risks, don't play safe.
There is no difference in lifestyles between a person having networth of $500k, $1m and $2m, both parents have to work and eventually the children have to work too.
only when you become HNW and HNWI, then there is a change in lifestyle.
Your kids could live off on rental income or interest income even if at lowly HNW.
Sell off your HDB, use the money to speculate.
If you lose all the money, there will be no change in lifestyle.
You and the family continue to stay in HDB flat, except now, family squeezed into 2 rented rooms :)
Please don't blame others, like your school for example. Take personal responsibility for what you are now. Only then can you grow.
What are the distinctive differences?
Just wanted to say here that I have nothing against neighborhood schools...
There are some differences, some of which are positive and some negative... I think the most obvious one is that of school culture and a strong alumni
nestor....
shelford regency - no offence to any owners - but if i recall correctly, the units seem pretty dark (or at least the particular unit i viewed back in 2008). imho, not a very nice devt to live in. if it really costs 1200psf, i think 19 shelford will be a much better option.
disclaimer: not vested in shelford area
proud owner
01-11-10, 23:53
Just wanted to say here that I have nothing against neighborhood schools...
There are some differences, some of which are positive and some negative... I think the most obvious one is that of school culture and a strong alumni
alot still depend on family upbringing lah ..
whenever we see a crime, and he/shes from neighbourhood school , we immediately judge the school
we have also seen many cases of students from so called good school behaving like gangsters ...
i am a strong believer of family upbringing ..
yes ..good school will have better equipments, better teaching standards..
i believe when it comes time to send your kids to school .. you would alerady know if your child is 'there' or not ..
if he is not in that league .. no pt going to good schools .. they will suffer, and when they do...they will do worst than if they had been in a normal standard school ..
keep canadian gold coins enuff....in case currency become toilet paper still can use gold coin to barter trade:D
still waiting for gold spot price to retrace leh....now i scare scare to buy more gold coins wor:o
Jim Sinclair + Martin Armstrong + Alf Fields... can la...
i agree, RI is a crap school. :)
gfoo you ACS PIG you... (albeit a rich n loaded one)
Geylang OKT
02-11-10, 07:00
Every where you post.... you like to pick a fight with everyone? :scared-4: :scared-3: :scared-1:
I am not a loser by your definition because I happen to be one of the professions that you so admire.
And really, I'm saying that there are different good schools. In this case, the protagonist is just wondering if he can afford to buy a place near NYPS to give his children a bright future. I'm just trying to be helpful and suggesting other good schools at slightly less expensive localities. And it doesn't mean that not getting into NYPS means his children's future will be bleak. Parents shouldn't thinking this way. They are just 7 years old and will live until 80 years old. Even if they can't get into a good school at 7, they can still have a bright future in the next 74 years. NYPS produce the most number of doctors and lawyers - maybe - I don't have the stats. But looking at the type of parents who manage to get their kids in there - even if they suck at O levels, the parents (rich or poor) will send them overseas so that at the end of the day, they still become doctors and lawyer right? It doesn't mean NYPS provide the BEST education, the profile of the parents (i.e. TOP KIASU) ensure that their children will go to the best enrichment, and even if the kids do badly, you can be sure the parents will sacrifice their own enjoyments to fulfill their children's wants.
I'm just providing an alternative view. I notice you are VERY MAINSTREAM in your thinking, probably from a very structured education since young. It's ok to be mainstream in your thinking. But there's no need to call people losers just because they choose to take risk on a less trodden path.
BTW, the tai-tai school is SCGS. You are clearly not in the league.
Geylang OKT
02-11-10, 07:02
yes the tai tai school is most definitely SCGS.
MGS: more housewives, not many tai tai.
why? not appealing enough to rich men :tongue3: :tongue3:
The MGS uniform is so ah ummm :D
nestor....
shelford regency - no offence to any owners - but if i recall correctly, the units seem pretty dark (or at least the particular unit i viewed back in 2008). imho, not a very nice devt to live in. if it really costs 1200psf, i think 19 shelford will be a much better option.
disclaimer: not vested in shelford area
That's what I thought too.. I went there 3 times and didn't really like it... 19 Shelford falls well within my budget so I think I'll pay more attention to it... at least someone recommended that based on what I can afford!
Every where you post.... you like to pick a fight with everyone? :scared-4: :scared-3: :scared-1:
he claims that he is either doctor or lawyer mah..
either one also gong sibeh jway jiao way one...
Wild Falcon
02-11-10, 21:36
I usually post opinions and I don't pick up a fight. But because my opinions could be different and un-mainstream, it disturbs certain individuals in this forum - many of which are the same individuals in different nicks. If you trace the posts, you would notice that I'm usually not the one who start calling names or use vulgaries. It's those who cannot accept slightly less mainstream views that gets offended. I can take different standpoints - that is what a forum is for - to share opinions. A forum needs diversity and independent thinking - nobody comes into a forum to read things that I can find in the Straits Times. What I despise is unnecessary name-calling and mud-slinging just because someone thinks differently, and when that is thrown at me, I will not hesitate to make a stand.
Every where you post.... you like to pick a fight with everyone? :scared-4: :scared-3: :scared-1:
Geylang OKT
02-11-10, 22:27
I usually post opinions and I don't pick up a fight. But because my opinions could be different and un-mainstream, it disturbs certain individuals in this forum - many of which are the same individuals in different nicks. If you trace the posts, you would notice that I'm usually not the one who start calling names or use vulgaries. It's those who cannot accept slightly less mainstream views that gets offended. I can take different standpoints - that is what a forum is for - to share opinions. A forum needs diversity and independent thinking - nobody comes into a forum to read things that I can find in the Straits Times. What I despise is unnecessary name-calling and mud-slinging just because someone thinks differently, and when that is thrown at me, I will not hesitate to make a stand.
Peace Be to All :D :D :D
Geylang OKT
02-11-10, 22:29
gfoo you ACS PIG you... (albeit a rich n loaded one)
I see many old boy ACS alumni labels on car windscreens at SSC. Got a good mind to scratch ALL of them! :tongue3: :tongue3:
Ora Et Labora! :D :D :D
gfoo you ACS PIG you... (albeit a rich n loaded one)
oh yeah forgot you are rafflesian. ok i make exception, for you.....
You St Josephians? :cool:
I see many old boy ACS alumni labels on car windscreens at SSC. Got a good mind to scratch ALL of them! :tongue3: :tongue3:
Ora Et Labora! :D :D :D
You St Josephians? :cool:
he is SJI chow ah kwa:D :D :D
proud owner
03-11-10, 22:34
sad to see that those from so called good schools are really not so nice to each other ...
i dont see people from Changkat changi fighting here with people from Eling north school .. etc etc
Geylang OKT
03-11-10, 22:56
You St Josephians? :cool:
Yes Sir! :D :D :D
Geylang OKT
03-11-10, 22:57
he is SJI chow ah kwa:D :D :D
I go take my humongous rod and knock you over the head with it can? :D :D :D
Geylang OKT
03-11-10, 23:00
sad to see that those from so called good schools are really not so nice to each other ...
i dont see people from Changkat changi fighting here with people from Eling north school .. etc etc
Those types... you will probably see more at Downtown East chasing others with parangs :D
:scared-3: :p No wonder nowsadays people are more particular about sending their kids to the good schools! (Don't get into bad influence! At least no gangsters!). Read in newspapers a few days ago that gangs are alive and thriving even better because their young gang members are indistinguishable from other youngsters until, well, they weep out their swiss army knives! :scared-1:
Heard from several friends that they saw glue-sniffing youngsters wearing neighbourhood schools' uniforms hanging around in HDB void decks (in different estates)! I ask myself do I want to send my kids to these neighbourhood schools? Why these are happening now and more blatant than previously (say >10 years ago)?
Those types... you will probably see more at Downtown East chasing others with parangs :D
kingkong1984
04-11-10, 08:37
Ladies included. If planning to stay in condo and not enough money, sell hdb lor. Can buy a big condo and sell 10 yrs later and buy back hdb, the profits from the sale of condo could give u a free hdb plus some cash to enjoy life.
:scared-3: :p No wonder nowsadays people are more particular about sending their kids to the good schools! (Don't get into bad influence! At least no gangsters!). Read in newspapers a few days ago that gangs are alive and thriving even better because their young gang members are indistinguishable from other youngsters until, well, they weep out their swiss army knives! :scared-1:
Heard from several friends that they saw glue-sniffing youngsters wearing neighbourhood schools' uniforms hanging around in HDB void decks (in different estates)! I ask myself do I want to send my kids to these neighbourhood schools? Why these are happening now and more blatant than previously (say >10 years ago)?
last time all those sio de oh, ang soon tong, hai kim kia etc all got code of conduct and tradition one. now where got such thing? all the young ones today in gangs join to exi borat over petty things
Heard from friends who are teachers from elite schools that students in those schools have Attitude problem. It boils down to their parents.
Geylang OKT
04-11-10, 10:45
Heard from friends who are teachers from elite schools that students in those schools have Attitude problem. It boils down to their parents.
Attitude problem or elitist problem still better than to go around slashing and killing folks around you lah :D
last time all those sio de oh, ang soon tong, hai kim kia etc all got code of conduct and tradition one. now where got such thing? all the young ones today in gangs join to exi borat over petty things
wah, you also play number one. not just district number but also pai kia number.:D
oh yah i remember. acs was 18 sio or 24 one. 369 is new compared to those.
Every where you post.... you like to pick a fight with everyone? :scared-4: :scared-3: :scared-1:
dun pray pray... maybe he is the sio kun tong "first route marshal", the dragon head leh.... your geylang OKT bosses' bosses' bosses' big boss. tomorrow scarly you ganna chop kkj..
Attitude problem or elitist problem still better than to go around slashing and killing folks around you lah :D
helo those elitist gangsters from 999 gang one do a lot worse things than slashing and killing lor.. although end result is the same: MAKE YOU SUFFER TILL YOU DIE:D :D :D
Got such thing as elitist gangsters? :confused:
Elitists still better than gangsters for watever attitude they have is their own problem, better than go around slashing people. :doh:
helo those elitist gangsters from 999 gang one do a lot worse things than slashing and killing lor.. although end result is the same: MAKE YOU SUFFER TILL YOU DIE:D :D :D
Got such thing as elitist gangsters? :confused:
Elitists still better than gangsters for watever attitude they have is their own problem, better than go around slashing people. :doh:
got...lightning gang 999...
wah u a bit thick ah? hahaha
got...lightning gang 999...
wah u a bit thick ah? hahaha
hint: not ang soon tong or sio koon tong or chiam see tong ah...:D
Got such thing as elitist gangsters? :confused:
Elitists still better than gangsters for watever attitude they have is their own problem, better than go around slashing people. :doh:
he talking about mata lah
Lol this thread has gone way off topic haha.. I remember when I was still in secondary school (Neighbourhood), a guy took a coffee glass mug and smashed it right to another guy's head while he was having lunch.. It's over a girl.. The victim's head bled like a waterfall and a huge fight broke out in the school canteen..
I doubt you get to see scenes like that in the better schools?
Never heard that such thing ever happened before in the good schools.
Lol this thread has gone way off topic haha.. I remember when I was still in secondary school (Neighbourhood), a guy took a coffee glass mug and smashed it right to another guy's head while he was having lunch.. It's over a girl.. The victim's head bled like a waterfall and a huge fight broke out in the school canteen..
I doubt you get to see scenes like that in the better schools?
got, just get kaki from other school do it, then later buy everyone tiger and chir char, or open bottle at canto
proud owner
04-11-10, 21:55
Lol this thread has gone way off topic haha.. I remember when I was still in secondary school (Neighbourhood), a guy took a coffee glass mug and smashed it right to another guy's head while he was having lunch.. It's over a girl.. The victim's head bled like a waterfall and a huge fight broke out in the school canteen..
I doubt you get to see scenes like that in the better schools?
Better school students only beat up bus driver :tongue3:
proud owner
04-11-10, 21:59
Never heard that such thing ever happened before in the good schools.
whats the name of that guy ??
who embezzled millions , forging signatures .. flew to Australian casinoes to gamble ... now in jail for LIFE ..
he was from a good school ..
they dont slash or smash glasses into others head .. but they commit crime of much bigger proportion ..
those are more dangerous ...they plot .. they scheme ..
we only take note and criticise and punish he who rapes .. but we tend to forgive those who plots to rape ...
Geylang OKT
04-11-10, 22:37
Pai Kia cheong Ahhhh!!!! :D :D :D
Geylang OKT
04-11-10, 22:38
dun pray pray... maybe he is the sio kun tong "first route marshal", the dragon head leh.... your geylang OKT bosses' bosses' bosses' big boss. tomorrow scarly you ganna chop kkj..
My kkj got protective armour wan you know :cool: :D :D
These people are still very much less dangerous than those people who slash and kill others. Even the laws says so - the white collar crimes (former) have no caning, whereas violent crime (latter) comes with caning. :D Nobody wants to be anywhere in Singapore and get slash, raped, &/or killed. Money lost never mind because our live are at least still intact. That is why Singapore is still a better place to live in than USA, despite all the cries about more democracy in US etc.
whats the name of that guy ??
who embezzled millions , forging signatures .. flew to Australian casinoes to gamble ... now in jail for LIFE ..
he was from a good school ..
they dont slash or smash glasses into others head .. but they commit crime of much bigger proportion ..
those are more dangerous ...they plot .. they scheme ..
we only take note and criticise and punish he who rapes .. but we tend to forgive those who plots to rape ...
Geylang OKT
04-11-10, 23:56
Tip.... get into the stock market scene now as QE II is making big big money come our way! Get in now or get in at higher prices later! :D :D :D
i'm starting to wonder with all this QE, are we really making big money or are we merely keeping abreast with inflation.
rattydrama
05-11-10, 09:22
in reply to proud owner question. Is this the guy you talking about?
http://infopedia.nl.sg/articles/SIP_422_2005-01-25.html
Longest jail term for the worst case of commercial fraud in Singapore
By Nureza Ahmad written on 2004-04-05
National Library Board Singapore
Comments on article: InfopediaTalk
On 2 April 2004, Chia Teck Leng was sentenced to 42 years in jail, the longest jail term meted out for the largest case in commercial fraud in Singapore to date. Chia was a finance manager at Asia Pacific Breweries when he forged documents to swindle banks out of S$117 million over four years to feed his gambling addiction. Previously, the worst commercial fraud case was held by Singapore Airlines' employee Teo Cheng Kiat, who embezzled S$35 million from the airline for over 13 years. He was convicted in 2000 and jailed for 24 years for the crime.
Description
The accused
Chia was an accountancy graduate who began his career at the, now-defunct accounting and consultancy firm, Arthur Andersen. He moved on, attaining several top positions in various companies including the post of assistant vice-president at the United Overseas Bank, a mergers-and-acquisitions manager at Jack Chia-MPH and a financial controller at Swire Pacific Offshore Services. He then joined Asia Pacific Breweries (APB) on 20 January 1999 as its finance manager. APB is considered one of the region's largest breweries with sales of $372.7 million and an after-tax profit of $38.6 million in 2001. The job required him to travel and paid him a tidy salary of between $200,000 and $300,000 a year.
By all accounts, Chia, 44, was said to be a non-descript, mid-level executive who got along well with his colleagues. He lived with his wife, a teacher, and their two teenage sons in a St Francis Lodge condominium, off Serangoon Road. Little did his colleagues and family knew that the hard-working executive Chia was leading a double life. Chia was a frequent patron of casinos in Australia, Britain, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Cambodia and the Philippines. He was so well- known in some casinos that the casino operators would personally invite him to their betting halls and fly him there in their private jets. He was known to get the VIP treatment at the Crown Casino in Melbourne, Australia, and even stayed in its most expensive room costing A$25,000 a night on his visits there. The gambler Chia even had a Chinese national girlfriend, 23 year old, Li Jin, whom he considered his lucky charm.
Chia had been a habitual gambler since 1994. Over the years, he swung from being plunged deep into gambling debts to winning large sums of money. However, his luck turned for the worse in 1998. In a two-week gambling spree, he lost all his previous winnings of $1 million, and chalked up new debts. By the time he joined APB in 1999, he was heavily indebted.
The charges
Chia was accused of forging documents, cheating several banks over a period of four years, between February 1999 to March 2003. The forged documents, known as certified extracts of board resolutions, deceived the banks into extending him credit and loan facilities in the name of APB, with him as the sole signatory. He forged signatures of top APB executives, like its chief executive Koh Poh Tiong, and then-Fraser and Neave's managing director, Tan Yam Pin. Fraser and Neave owns 37.9 % of APB.
Chia was arrested on 2 September 2003 by the Commercial Affairs Department. He was first charged in court on 4 September, on two counts, one of cheating and one of forgery involving S$3 million. He was first accused of cheating a Scandinavian bank, Skandinaviska Enskilda Banken (SEB) in February 1999 of giving him $3 million in credit. As investigations continued, more charges were levelled against him.
By 11 September 2003, he faced eight new charges. He was accused of cheating four banks into giving him a total credit of about S$113 million; one Scandinavian bank, two Japanese banks, and one German bank.
On 17 September 2003, 18 more charges were added on. These included new charges of money withdrawals from banks, such as US$25 million from SEB, and US$10 million from Sakura Bank.
On 24 September, he was charged with four more counts of forgery. This time of opening a schedule of fixed deposit with Citibank, and transferring legitimate funds from APB's OCBC bank account to the fictitious Citibank account.
Thus, Chia faced 32 charges by the end of September. He was also denied bail in October, fearing he would abscond if released as he was known to have overseas personal bank accounts of which he had refused to divulge details to investigators. The charges against him did not abate and on 5 December 2003, 14 new charges were added to the existing 32, bringing the total number of charges against Chia to 46.
The 46 charges comprised 14 charges of forgery and 18 of cheating four foreign banks of about S$117 million, four charges of criminal breach of trust of S$53 million, two of money-laundering, and eight of abetting his girlfriend, Li Jin, to use a forged passport. Li, purportedly used the forged Taiwanese passport to enter and leave Singapore between November 2002 and January 2003. With the embezzled money, Chia was said to have led a high-spending lifestyle, lavishly buying branded goods for himself, his girlfriend and his friends. For instance, he bought a $150,000 Mercedes Benz, a $530,000 apartment in Grange Road, and gave gifts totalling more than $300,000 to various people.
With these 46 charges facing Chia, he was ordered to stand trial in the High Court on 26 March 2004 in what is considered the biggest case of financial fraud in the history of Singapore.
The sentence
On 2 April 2004, Chia was convicted by the High Court after pleading guilty to six charges of forgery and eight charges of cheating. Another 32 charges were considered during sentencing. High Court Judge Tay Yong Kwang sentenced him to 42 years in jail, the longest jail term ever given out for a commercial crime. In all, Chia had swindled the banks of more than S$117 million, losing S$62 million in casinos around the world. Only S$34.8 million has so far been recovered.
Judge Tay noted how Chia had managed to deceive banks undetected over a period of four years, reiterating the prosecution's stand that Chia's crime was the work of a "criminal genius". He dismissed Chia's mitigating plea that the banks were the ones who had approached him first, offering to lend him cash; that the banks had been too naive, trusting and negligent, making it easy for him to commit the crimes. Judge Tay emphasised that bankers are eager to forge business relationships, and not be the unwitting victims of forgery. Judge Tay had also presided over the case of commercial fraud by Singapore Airlines' employee, Teo Cheng Kiat which had previously been regarded as the worst case of commercial fraud.
These people are still very much less dangerous than those people who slash and kill others. Even the laws says so - the white collar crimes (former) have no caning, whereas violent crime (latter) comes with caning. :D Nobody wants to be anywhere in Singapore and get slash, raped, &/or killed. Money lost never mind because our live are at least still intact. That is why Singapore is still a better place to live in than USA, despite all the cries about more democracy in US etc.
rattydrama
05-11-10, 09:23
Tip.... get into the stock market scene now as QE II is making big big money come our way! Get in now or get in at higher prices later! :D :D :D
Too slow liao, it was all over the news.
Geylang OKT
05-11-10, 10:04
Too slow liao, it was all over the news.
Nope... it was wait and see till last night. You are still not too late :D :D :D
devilplate
05-11-10, 10:53
Dow nrly gained 2%...wow...so bullish meh..
next wk gd time to take some profit off the table?:D
rattydrama
06-11-10, 10:45
Nope... it was wait and see till last night. You are still not too late :D :D :D
I am referring to SG stock market.
new2mondrian
06-11-10, 15:20
Very true... this is actually exactly why I didn't look at buying a private property for over a decade since I started working (and hence the ignorance now)... If it's not for my baby girl I probably wouldn't consider buying a place at D10.. so I say again.. I truly envy people who have good schools affiliation
Hi Nestor,
How old is your child? Our kids might end up as classmates! :) Actually there are a number of more affordable choices that are within 1km of NYPS, such as Nineteen Shelford Road and Adam Park Condo.
If I were you, I would prefer the Shelford Road ones, since they are BOTH within 1km from NYPS and RGPS. If NYPS gets too tough, there's always a RGPS as a back-up option. RGPS parent volunteer program is not too tough to get into.
All the best in your house hunting!
rattydrama
06-11-10, 16:13
deleted wrong post
Hi Nestor,
How old is your child? Our kids might end up as classmates! :) Actually there are a number of more affordable choices that are within 1km of NYPS, such as Nineteen Shelford Road and Adam Park Condo.
If I were you, I would prefer the Shelford Road ones, since they are BOTH within 1km from NYPS and RGPS. If NYPS gets too tough, there's always a RGPS as a back-up option. RGPS parent volunteer program is not too tough to get into.
All the best in your house hunting!
My kid is really really youn haha... you stay within 1km too? Yeah I noticed that there are a couple more choices which might be within my budget actually... I'll be a little patient and look around more before committing.
I need to be sure that I got the holding power before I buy anything.
Geylang OKT
06-11-10, 23:58
I am referring to SG stock market.
only the index stocks have cheonged. the 2nd and 3rd liners have not cheong yet... so you know where to park your monies hor :D :D :D
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